The abuse of the Naruto forum
- Thread starter Hawk
- Start date
Well, I answered this on IRC, but I figured I'd post it here too, in case anybody else is curious.
<Lumias> Hey hawk I asked on the forum, but since you're here, If I post something that has a snippet in the ideas section because i want more feedback or suggestion is it okay to post in ideas or should I just post it in prreivws?
<HawkGTS> Well, if you don't have a lot of stuff for it, Ideas is prolly the place to go. If it starts to flesh out towards full chapter/fic, it can always be moved.
<Lumias> Hey hawk I asked on the forum, but since you're here, If I post something that has a snippet in the ideas section because i want more feedback or suggestion is it okay to post in ideas or should I just post it in prreivws?
<HawkGTS> Well, if you don't have a lot of stuff for it, Ideas is prolly the place to go. If it starts to flesh out towards full chapter/fic, it can always be moved.
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I guess I've been adding to the abuse, with my first couple posts being Necros. I didn't know what it was and I actually had to look a bit to understand but It makes sense I guess. The forums I am a member of don't care, so I didn't think about it. Sorry about that. Just wanted to apologize. I replied to the polite PMs I received about it.
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My vaccation is now over and I've been back at work since monday, which has been hell. Especially since my body is still in the 'stay up until five in the morning and sleep until ten' phase, which doesn't really mesh with the reality of having to get up at seven in order to get to work on time.
My DSL connection has been acting up since last week and it grew progressively worse as the days went on, meaning I had no home inet access from tuesday until today. Cruising the www at work is frowned upon, so all I ever did was approve new accounts at tff during small breaks.
I was, moronically enough, out drinking until 04:15 this morning, in spite of today being a work day. Incidentally, somewhere around two hours worth of sleep, is not a good way to prepare for a day at the office...
93 unread pm's was waiting for me now when I've got my DSL connection back in working order. Still got some 30-35 pm's to get through before I'm done.
And the Naruto subforum is once again the home of of misthief.
Oh, goodie... Just what the good doctor ordered for my already grumpy mood... :/
Haven't quite decided yet if I'll just shut down the entire Naruto subsection or merely shut down the talk and ideas subforums and forbid OT:ness in the preview one, kickban the entire small group of people who can't seem to avoid repeatedly bringing topics down to pointless bickering and petty namecalling or make some serious TFF rule changes.
Trolling has yet to be forbidden, though that is one of the rule changes that I'm considering, in spite of the fact that I originally deliberately left it out of the rules in order not to curb discussions as some people tend to cry 'Troll!' at the first sight of somebody having an opinion they disagree with. Point in case, the 12-15 reported post messages I've received over the last two or so weeks, accusing Omega of being a troll.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 )
( http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm )
Might be some truth to those to be honest, especially considering those 'Oh, I once debated for xx pages before everybody quit and I won'-statements. That's not exactly something that someone who's interested in an actual debate would brag about.
But trolling is not a TFF rule violation. At least not yet.
Things getting OT is also something I've been extremly lenient with since the start of TFF, heck, some of the most amusing and interesting shit here has originated during some of the rampant bouts of OT:ness that erupts here on a fairly regular basis. So I wouldn't want to restrict that in any way, but really, one would think that repeated requests from the topics originator would be enough to make people take it elsewhere. :/
Anyways, I'm going to sleep on it, calm down and mull things over for a bit before actually doing something rash in my current mood, but something will happen ere long...
My DSL connection has been acting up since last week and it grew progressively worse as the days went on, meaning I had no home inet access from tuesday until today. Cruising the www at work is frowned upon, so all I ever did was approve new accounts at tff during small breaks.
I was, moronically enough, out drinking until 04:15 this morning, in spite of today being a work day. Incidentally, somewhere around two hours worth of sleep, is not a good way to prepare for a day at the office...
93 unread pm's was waiting for me now when I've got my DSL connection back in working order. Still got some 30-35 pm's to get through before I'm done.
And the Naruto subforum is once again the home of of misthief.
Oh, goodie... Just what the good doctor ordered for my already grumpy mood... :/
Haven't quite decided yet if I'll just shut down the entire Naruto subsection or merely shut down the talk and ideas subforums and forbid OT:ness in the preview one, kickban the entire small group of people who can't seem to avoid repeatedly bringing topics down to pointless bickering and petty namecalling or make some serious TFF rule changes.
Trolling has yet to be forbidden, though that is one of the rule changes that I'm considering, in spite of the fact that I originally deliberately left it out of the rules in order not to curb discussions as some people tend to cry 'Troll!' at the first sight of somebody having an opinion they disagree with. Point in case, the 12-15 reported post messages I've received over the last two or so weeks, accusing Omega of being a troll.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 )
( http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm )
Might be some truth to those to be honest, especially considering those 'Oh, I once debated for xx pages before everybody quit and I won'-statements. That's not exactly something that someone who's interested in an actual debate would brag about.
But trolling is not a TFF rule violation. At least not yet.
Things getting OT is also something I've been extremly lenient with since the start of TFF, heck, some of the most amusing and interesting shit here has originated during some of the rampant bouts of OT:ness that erupts here on a fairly regular basis. So I wouldn't want to restrict that in any way, but really, one would think that repeated requests from the topics originator would be enough to make people take it elsewhere. :/
Anyways, I'm going to sleep on it, calm down and mull things over for a bit before actually doing something rash in my current mood, but something will happen ere long...
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Well, one way to clean the Naruto forum up would be for topics starters, like me, to delete the REALLY old ones that no one ever answered to. In fact, I was considering doing that, since some of my older topics were not only fairly pointless, but never got any answers.
At least it'd clean up some of the clutter in it.
EDIT: Of course, this doesn't solve the Naruto forum's biggest problem - the fact that the series divides TFF between a small group of people who like it and an overwhelming majority of diehard haters. Quite frankly, shutting down the Talk section and purging the Ideas section a good deal seems like the best thing to do.
I'd actually propose leaving the New Naruto Chapters topic up, stickied, and nuking the rest of Naruto-Talk. It has really gotten to become a den of trolling, I'm afraid...
At least it'd clean up some of the clutter in it.
EDIT: Of course, this doesn't solve the Naruto forum's biggest problem - the fact that the series divides TFF between a small group of people who like it and an overwhelming majority of diehard haters. Quite frankly, shutting down the Talk section and purging the Ideas section a good deal seems like the best thing to do.
I'd actually propose leaving the New Naruto Chapters topic up, stickied, and nuking the rest of Naruto-Talk. It has really gotten to become a den of trolling, I'm afraid...
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To be honest, I think it would take more than a single moderator to fix all of those problems.
I think one of the problems in the Naruto section is that people just don't know when to stop arguing, and both sides end up repeating the same things over and over and over. Only with different wording and more insults with every following post.
Nothing wrong with debating, but the simple term 'agree to disagree' and then moving on would stop a lot of flamewars there.
I think one of the problems in the Naruto section is that people just don't know when to stop arguing, and both sides end up repeating the same things over and over and over. Only with different wording and more insults with every following post.
Nothing wrong with debating, but the simple term 'agree to disagree' and then moving on would stop a lot of flamewars there.
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Frankly, I wouldn't really care if the section disappeared, but I'm probably the very extreme end of the scale. I gave up on the series and the section, pretty much, and for the most part it no longer interests me. If you feel it needs moderation, Hawk, go ahead and pick someone; this is your forum. But I'm not up to that task, so I preemptively decline.
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Well...
I cannot say as I'm a fan of the series (I'm more of GH's diehard haters in his post than a lover). However, it seems to me it would leave a bad impression of that fandom to all on this forum that of all the subforums on here, with as many that are members (even if most lurk), and as long as it has been in operation, that Naruto would be the only one so bad off to need a thread like this to discuss it and it come up multiple times.
Hawk could go the moderator route, I suppose. But it seems to me if it is broke as badly as indicated here, I have to agree with others that more drastic action in the short term might be for the better for his disposition in the future.
While I've seen threads in other fandoms get to the point of loosing tempers and overly emotional. In most of those cases either the ones doing it allow the thread to die, or someone steps in and tells everyone off. Those instances also seem farely rare.
In the end, the call is solely on Hawk. But to anyone reading, I would not place blame on him for future decisions, but on those in the Naruto fandom that forced any changes to be made.
I cannot say as I'm a fan of the series (I'm more of GH's diehard haters in his post than a lover). However, it seems to me it would leave a bad impression of that fandom to all on this forum that of all the subforums on here, with as many that are members (even if most lurk), and as long as it has been in operation, that Naruto would be the only one so bad off to need a thread like this to discuss it and it come up multiple times.
Hawk could go the moderator route, I suppose. But it seems to me if it is broke as badly as indicated here, I have to agree with others that more drastic action in the short term might be for the better for his disposition in the future.
While I've seen threads in other fandoms get to the point of loosing tempers and overly emotional. In most of those cases either the ones doing it allow the thread to die, or someone steps in and tells everyone off. Those instances also seem farely rare.
In the end, the call is solely on Hawk. But to anyone reading, I would not place blame on him for future decisions, but on those in the Naruto fandom that forced any changes to be made.
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I am of the opinion that not even a group of moderators would be able to handle the Naruto section. Like GH has said, small group of people like it, the rest downright hate it. Any mods that we could get could at least know of Naruto and be either one.
I mean, there's basically almost no one on the internet at least that doesn't know of Naruto as it's completely everywhere, there's no real good choice for mods on that matter.
Kickbanning people...well I'm sure that they will resent it, but I wouldn't know if whoever gets it, will likely be pissed off but leave at the (very hopeful) least towards being emo and trying to bring down the place at the most.
Heck, we at least had one person who tried to evade being banned by using multiple member names and crap if I recall right.
I rarely look into the Naruto talk section so anything I say about it doesn't really matter, but just looking into there just scares the hell out of me as much as a combo of Tub-girl, man-faye and about any live-action anime series known to man can scare me and that says a lot.
If it was possible, I'd say lock the entire Talk and Idea sections for a bit and have a topic that points to this one. While I'm not very hopeful about it, maybe they might understand how serious this is getting and...for a lack of words...'grow up' as in the end, Hawk, you will be going to put your foot down pretty sooner or later and draw the line so to speak.
I mean, there's basically almost no one on the internet at least that doesn't know of Naruto as it's completely everywhere, there's no real good choice for mods on that matter.
Kickbanning people...well I'm sure that they will resent it, but I wouldn't know if whoever gets it, will likely be pissed off but leave at the (very hopeful) least towards being emo and trying to bring down the place at the most.
Heck, we at least had one person who tried to evade being banned by using multiple member names and crap if I recall right.
I rarely look into the Naruto talk section so anything I say about it doesn't really matter, but just looking into there just scares the hell out of me as much as a combo of Tub-girl, man-faye and about any live-action anime series known to man can scare me and that says a lot.
If it was possible, I'd say lock the entire Talk and Idea sections for a bit and have a topic that points to this one. While I'm not very hopeful about it, maybe they might understand how serious this is getting and...for a lack of words...'grow up' as in the end, Hawk, you will be going to put your foot down pretty sooner or later and draw the line so to speak.
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I'm not sure it's possible, but maybe putting a temporary ban or a ban that prevents them from posting anything new for a period of time.
The only other idea I have would be locking out any new members to the board over all, so the Naruto ranks stop swelling and anyone perma banned can't just rejoin under a new name.
But doing that would also prevent good writers and posters from joining.
The only other idea I have would be locking out any new members to the board over all, so the Naruto ranks stop swelling and anyone perma banned can't just rejoin under a new name.
But doing that would also prevent good writers and posters from joining.
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The only suggestion, besides closing the sub forums or getting a ton of moderators (which is hard trying to find 'the' un-bias one that only edits post and bans people that deserve it) would be to just start a mass banning of the ones that are causing the problems. Preferably a temporary ban just to get them on the right path. Also one that would take into account their IP so that they can't just come back under a different name.
Also, I might suggest a rule for trolls given that quite a few of those post are taken down by just that. Now, there should be a big asterisk next to that term of course. Simply having an unpopular opinion does not qualify you as a troll. And getting banned for being a 'troll', should not be that easy. However, if that person debates, just for the sake or debates, or more appropriately, argues, purposely writes horribly, and seems to ONLY get on people's nerves, than that person should be banned. First, a warning, then a temporary bad, and of course, a permanent one.
Otherwise, I'm afraid the only other solution would be to close sub forums. And are only allowed to reopen if people 'play nice' so to speak.
Also, I might suggest a rule for trolls given that quite a few of those post are taken down by just that. Now, there should be a big asterisk next to that term of course. Simply having an unpopular opinion does not qualify you as a troll. And getting banned for being a 'troll', should not be that easy. However, if that person debates, just for the sake or debates, or more appropriately, argues, purposely writes horribly, and seems to ONLY get on people's nerves, than that person should be banned. First, a warning, then a temporary bad, and of course, a permanent one.
Otherwise, I'm afraid the only other solution would be to close sub forums. And are only allowed to reopen if people 'play nice' so to speak.
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Closing the sub-forums would undoubtedly be the less bothersome method to stop the abuse of the Naruto forum. Of course, then you have the very high possibility of other forums being abused.
I agree with SimmyC that bringing down the ban-hammer on those trolls and other rules-disregarding individuals would be better in this case. The only problem I see is judging who is arguing simply for the sake of trolling and who not. But from what I gathered some people are fairly obvious trolls, only arguing for the sake of upsetting other readers and disrupting discussions.
Those individuals you should strike fast and decisively to show them that you mean business!
On the other hand, people abusing the Naruto forum by creating threads that don't belong there are obvious and should also get to feel the ban-hammer.
I agree with SimmyC that bringing down the ban-hammer on those trolls and other rules-disregarding individuals would be better in this case. The only problem I see is judging who is arguing simply for the sake of trolling and who not. But from what I gathered some people are fairly obvious trolls, only arguing for the sake of upsetting other readers and disrupting discussions.
Those individuals you should strike fast and decisively to show them that you mean business!
On the other hand, people abusing the Naruto forum by creating threads that don't belong there are obvious and should also get to feel the ban-hammer.
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I find a lot of people get really wrapped up in their arguements, and honestly some of those arguements are legit with actual debating going on(single-minded and stubborn the people may be but illiterate they are not). My solution is to create a topic in Talk and "persuade" the people to move to there when the "debate" is eating the thread. Check out this thread and you'll see that it works.
If we get a mod thats what they should do, just redirect traffic. But I'm coming to the conclusion that if someone outside of the arguement just tells the peeps argueing to move it to talk they probably will and the problems solved.
The only difference a mod would make in that scenerio is that they'd be able to freeze accounts and shit if the guys didn't move it. But really we all can do that by going through Hawk, I think the report button would siphon directly to Hawk since there are no Mods but you could probably just pm him and the banhammer would come down.
The Naruto forum doesn't need a mod, it just needs people who give a shit about the quality of TFF as a whole.
If we get a mod thats what they should do, just redirect traffic. But I'm coming to the conclusion that if someone outside of the arguement just tells the peeps argueing to move it to talk they probably will and the problems solved.
The only difference a mod would make in that scenerio is that they'd be able to freeze accounts and shit if the guys didn't move it. But really we all can do that by going through Hawk, I think the report button would siphon directly to Hawk since there are no Mods but you could probably just pm him and the banhammer would come down.
The Naruto forum doesn't need a mod, it just needs people who give a shit about the quality of TFF as a whole.
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If you want a moderator, I'll volunteer. I don't personally know anyone here, and I singlehandedly put a stop to the (retarded) flood of 'Naruto as written by' threads that were annoying beyond belief.
Oh sure i usually post a picture as a comment, but I usually try to keep it relevant.
Oh sure i usually post a picture as a comment, but I usually try to keep it relevant.
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