The Apollo Inheritance

Luthorne

Well-Known Member
#76
...out of idle curiosity, wasn't the Earth not part of the Moon Kingdom, but rather ruled by the Golden Kingdom in Elysion, where Prince Endymion hailed from, thus the whole 'Romeo and Juliet'-esque nature of Princess Serenity and Prince Mamoru's romance? And, thus, wouldn't Earth technically belong to him, rather than Usagi...? I mean, in the future, they presumably united their respective kingdoms under one rule to create Crystal Tokyo, but...at least some of the arguments seem to be over whether Usagi should rightfully be inheriting Earth, when the more relevant question seems to be whether Mamoru should be...

...then again, my knowledge of Sailor Moon canon is a tad sketchy, and, of course, Drakensis may well have modified that setting for this particular fic... :huh.:
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
#77
Luthorne said:
...out of idle curiosity, wasn't the Earth not part of the Moon Kingdom, but rather ruled by the Golden Kingdom in Elysion, where Prince Endymion hailed from, thus the whole 'Romeo and Juliet'-esque nature of Princess Serenity and Prince Mamoru's romance? And, thus, wouldn't Earth technically belong to him, rather than Usagi...? I mean, in the future, they presumably united their respective kingdoms under one rule to create Crystal Tokyo, but...at least some of the arguments seem to be over whether Usagi should rightfully be inheriting Earth, when the more relevant question seems to be whether Mamoru should be...

...then again, my knowledge of Sailor Moon canon is a tad sketchy, and, of course, Drakensis may well have modified that setting for this particular fic... :huh.:
Yes, Earth is part of the Golden Millenium. The Silver Millenium main goal was to protect it from outside forces and protect the Ginzuishou but its most important rule was it couldn't interfere with Earth under any circumstances. That's what doomed it in the first place that and Nehellenia's curse. Apollo is technically breaking the Silver Millenium's most important rule if he goes on Earth soil.

ACT 40
"Prince, your kinsmen have always protected this shrine. And Elysion. This is the place where your dead kingdom, the Golden Kingdom, used to be."

"The Golden Kingdom...!" thinks Mamoru. "Yes... I know this place. The same winds as on the surface blow through the thick green of this sacred land that guards this planet, Elysion. I lived in this land, and I loved this place."

"That's right," says Helios. "From here, you went to the surface and protected this planet. Deep in this shrine, I offered my prayers to protect this planet. We never met each other, but our souls were always one. Our wishes were always one. And with the destined meeting of you two, again, we had the same wish. In your separate places, you couldn't be together. Then, too, the two of you shared the same mission, the same power, the same soul."

"The same mission?" says Mamoru. "The same power...?"

"You protected this planet Earth. The Silver Millennium from without, and the Golden Kingdom from within. And now that mission is carried in the two crystals of your kingdoms. The Mystical Silver Crystal is the holy stone of the Princess of the Silver Millennium. The Golden Crystal is the holy stone of the Prince of the Golden Kingdom. They send out your power."

"The Golden Crystal... is Mamo-chan's crystal!?"
Helios is Mamoru's equivalent to a Sailor Power Guardian.

If it sounded like I did argue about Usagi rightfully inheriting earth I didn't mean to. I just wanted to say it honestly doesn't affect her either way since she makes a new kingdom with Mamoru anyway and everyone involved with the senshi think of her as Princess Serenity.
 

drakensis

Well-Known Member
#78
A few points, some of which I may not have mentioned:

1. For Apollo to physically remove the computers and infrastructure that limit his authority and the ability of Usagi to succeed to the crown would require him to destroy what's left of the Moon Palace and a significant proportion of the surviving military bases by main military force. Such as, say, Castle Magellan etc.

Could he do that? Possibly (equally, the ships themselves might not let him). However the thought of doing so, the equivalent of a US Navy Admiral sailing the USS Iowa up the Potomac to shell the Mall in Washington DC, is abhorrent to him.

2. Apollo attends meetings with the protectorate's governments remotely and all Moon Kingdom ships are sealed. There are any number of theories about why this is. One of the major theories is that there has been a bioweapon disaster. Apollo refuses to answer anyone.

Apollo has waged war on aggressors outside the Protectorate and police actions against aggressors within the Protectorate several times. There is no question in anyone's mind that the Moon Kingdom protects its own.

3. Artemis and Luna are not members of the Council of Ministers. They are members of Serenity's staff, her personal advisors. Ministers would be the heads of major government departments.
Not a bad theory though.

4. I've seen several takes on Earth's relationship to the Moon Kingdom. The Golden Millenium divide makes sense to me and it works in the story.

The reason that the Throne (the principal computer of the Palace) won't talk directly to Apollo anymore is that after the disaster, Apollo tried to send a ship down to pick up survivors and deliver humanitarian aid. The Throne can't do anything to him - even if it physically could, it isn't legally empowered to do anything, but it's not going to assist him.

5. Luna asserts that Apollo is breaking the law by being Regent of the Moon Kingdom and Governor-General of the Protectorate while being a military officer. This is an issue of her patchy memory combined with the fact she wasn't involved in the military much: Apollo can legally do so as long as there is a state of martial law, which was declared due to Beryl's attack and (obviously) never overturned.

It was actually an error of judgement on his part: he appointed himself as Governor-General to deal with the Protectorate, and as the senior civil official automatically got designated Regent.
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
#79
I almost wonder how the other legal issue of Apollo withdrawing any noticeable features (like the Moon) from Earth exploration on both the Moon and Mars and landings and crashes of exploratory probes on what is presumably old Silver Millenium territory with the presumed lack of authority to cease hostilities with enemy populations or making no move to counter-attack (read "burning Earth to cinders").

For that matter there could be an interesting conflict of programming on Usagi and others being Enemy or Proper Authority and whether anything needs to be done to ensure their Proper Loyalty. AIs stewing over the loss of everything they were built for can get rather ugly, like some Superman stories where Superman is not considered Kryptonian enough and whether Earth should become New Krypton.
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
#80
Bruce said:
I almost wonder how the other legal issue of Apollo withdrawing any noticeable features (like the Moon) from Earth exploration on both the Moon and Mars and landings and crashes of exploratory probes on what is presumably old Silver Millenium territory with the presumed lack of authority to cease hostilities with enemy populations or making no move to counter-attack (read "burning Earth to cinders").

For that matter there could be an interesting conflict of programming on Usagi and others being Enemy or Proper Authority and whether anything needs to be done to ensure their Proper Loyalty.á AIs stewing over the loss of everything they were built for can get rather ugly, like some Superman stories where Superman is not considered Kryptonian enough and whether Earth should become New Krypton.
Unless they try to actually colonize other planets I doubt Apollo would mind considering earth isn't considered a hostile population and a part of the silver Millenium's most important alliance. Its not like he knows earth was the one who attacked the kingdom.

Also since Apollo is from the Silver Millenium and not a senshi, I don't think Helios will much care for his prescence.
 

Bruce

Well-Known Member
#81
SeiyaxUsagi said:
Bruce said:
I almost wonder how the other legal issue of Apollo withdrawing any noticeable features (like the Moon) from Earth exploration on both the Moon and Mars and landings and crashes of exploratory probes on what is presumably old Silver Millenium territory with the presumed lack of authority to cease hostilities with enemy populations or making no move to counter-attack (read "burning Earth to cinders").

For that matter there could be an interesting conflict of programming on Usagi and others being Enemy or Proper Authority and whether anything needs to be done to ensure their Proper Loyalty.á AIs stewing over the loss of everything they were built for can get rather ugly, like some Superman stories where Superman is not considered Kryptonian enough and whether Earth should become New Krypton.
Unless they try to actually colonize other planets I doubt Apollo would mind considering earth isn't considered a hostile population and a part of the silver Millenium's most important alliance. Its not like he knows earth was the one who attacked the kingdom.

Also since Apollo is from the Silver Millenium and not a senshi, I don't think Helios will much care for his prescence.
I meant the author's comments about how the Moon's AI computer refusing to to deal with Apollo directly and apparently views his earlier attempt to send aid to Earth's population as being somewhat treasonous in a giving aid and comfort to the enemies way (despite there being no sign of any remaining enemy government on Earth) and has not relented its views while only tolerating him to the extent of protecting the colonies and from threats outside the solar system. Apollo might not have any qualms with any Earth people or even Usagi getting the nod (provided she is trained in how to act as a head of state) as she is probably the only who could have the authority to rescind the state of emergency, reconstitute the government, and do the other changes to the whatever orders the AIs have lurking in their systems.

The real danger is how the AIs, especially the one in the remains on the Moon, are viewing all this. Even if they recognize reincarnation, they were reincarnated in the territory of the Enemy (which is probably recorded in both the records of the destruction of the Moon Kingdom and if Ami made any records and comments about Sailor Moon and company fight with Beryl to fill in any remaining holes in the records) and from the AI's perspective means that there is a danger that they could have been indoctrinated in alien belief systems, which makes them both a security risk and yet a vital resource that needs to be reinstalled as authority figures. How the AI's might decide to meet both conditions could be really bad as it seems that even though the story hints that they have increased in sentience, they are still hampering Apollo in ways mentioned above which may mean that the AIs could have dangerous interpretations of how they follow their own directives as they were stewing on their records and directives for all that time without anyone being authorized to keep the AIs sane.
 

drakensis

Well-Known Member
#82
Slight clarification: Apollo is on the outs with the Throne because he sent a ship into an area the Navy is forbidden to operate in. The Throne doesn't see Earth as the enemy, more as a DeMilitarised Zone.

The fact that the ship crashed (causing no small amount of damage) didn't help.
 

Mageohki

Well-Known Member
#83
*sigh* There ARE solutions to Apollo's problem

1.) WHICH Canon are you using? Anime or Manga? If Anime, Pluto's STILL AROUND... with most, if not of her old command codes.
Manga? Timegates. Move to when Serenity II (Usagi's) codes were inputted, scan, give 'em. Regonition codes accepted, problem solved, if everyone squints enough.

2.) As noted, Apollo CAN aruge, that since (and this is used elsewhere) ONLY Serenity's bloodline could use the crystal, Usagi's using the crystal, volia. Usagi's queen.

Given the situation he's in, he _CAN_ get away with it.


Apollo's problems are pretty much SOLVED. He just has to think very carefully. Computers ARE logical. But you CAN get away lying to them... if the lies apply to their logic.
Given that the computers are magically aware, tehy'd regonize the Crystal, and well...

A.
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
#84
If its anime canon. Setsuna can't leave, remember? She still has to watch those gates. Apollo isn't an alien force entering the solar system so she has no excuse to leave.

If its manga, Setsuna was willing to kill Usagi even though she was trying to save the future and billions of people. She won't allow someone to use the gates for such a minor issue despite what fanon says.

Also Pluto isn't even supposed to exist to most people so I doubt Apollo knows about her or the time gates. Since until Chibi-Usa mentioned it Luna and Artemis didn't even know about it.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#85
What follows occurred to me after reading the first three books in Iain M. Banks æCultureÆ series. Hopefully no one minds itÆs placement here.

Jander yawned as he sat up in bed. The rays of first light crept through his bedroom window. He blinked as he slowly came alert, trying to determine the source of his aches and the funny taste in his mouth.

A warm slender arm draping itself across his waist gave him his answer. He turned and gazed down at his guest, a very handsome woman heÆd had the pleasure of meeting some months ago after returning to Masq Orbital. Their circling courtship had finally culminated in last nights activities as theyÆd explored one another.

He smiled as h e bent down; placing a kiss on her forehead as he gently removed her arm from his lap. She smiled and snuggled under the thick blankets as he slide out of bed and stood to greet the day.

ôHouseà.ö He whispered as he rolled his neck and arms, standing nude in the morning light. His athletic, if slightly older, frame slowly working the kinks from his muscles. ôDim the lighting a bit for out guest, sheÆs not much of a morning person.ö Satisfied that his wishes would be done, Jander strolled through the open spaces of his home, snagging a burgundy robe with black trim held out for him by his homes effector field.

Jander had just about finished making breakfast for two when a chime sounded. ôYes Hub?ö the knife sliced through the grapefruit, splitting it in two.

ôSorry to interrupt you so early in the morning, Jander, but one of your co-workers asked that I announce him before he arrived.ö Jander sighed as he arranged the grapefruit next to the grits and country fried steak, on the little tray heÆd prepared for his lover. ôThat silly drone.ö He muttered. ôGo ahead Hub.ö He said in a louder voice

With a sense of mocking gravity that made Jander smile Hub began. ôAnnouncing Sir Gerald of Contact.ö Jander had just ordered house to deliver the tray to his slowly awakening guest as a fist sized spherical drone swooped in through the open door with all the pomp and circumstance of a palace noble

ôGood morning Sir Gerald.ö JanderÆs voice was pleasant as he gestured toward a chair ôToo what do I owe the pleasure of your company?ö

The little drone flashed through a series of colors, suggesting barely restrained pleasure as it settled itself primly in its little cradle ôContact has an assignment for us. Seems weÆre finally being allowed to meet with representatives from the Silver Millennium core worldsà.ö The drone paused just long enough ôàin person!ö

Jander arched an eyebrow in amazement. The Culture had long known of the Millennium Queendom, but had made little progress in meeting or even talking with anyone beyond the representatives of their colonies and protectorates. ôThatàis good newsà.Any ideas why this sudden change?ö

The drone continued on, positively bubbling with excitement. ôThe Minds closest to their Core Worlds thinks that some kind of political upheaval has happened or is currently happening. As a result the Queendom has decided to reach out to new potential allies. Right now theyÆve contacted us, the Jurians, and the Galaxy Police. TheyÆve asked for a meeting to take place between our three groups at our earliest possible convenience.

Jander sat back, mind working through the implications as the drone prattled on. ôItÆs been decided that the Galaxy Police will host the summit on one of their academy worlds. Contact suspects they are hoping the Millennium and The Culture will provide personnel, and resources to the mutual security of that quadrant of space.ö The Drone hummed with a cheery buzz as it continued ôThe meetingÆs in six months time, and the GCU ôWell I was in the Neighborhoodö has been tasked to ferry us and a few others to the Summit, should only be a three to four months long trip including the return voyage.ö

Jander leaned his chair back, balancing on the two back legs as he folded his hands in his lap. ôI take it this cat-like regent, a Mau I think, Apollo will be there?ö

ôSo far all signs point to yes, though it appears he will be accompanied by some other people who weÆve been unable to identify.ö The Drone left its little cradle and zipped up into the air ôI assume I can tell Contact that youÆre interested?ö

Jared smiled ôThe mystery of the Silver Millennium has been a hobby of mine for sometime, I wouldnÆt miss this for the Orbital.ö


Author notes: Obviously I cut things down a bit, mainly I didnÆt feel like writing out culture names. I was reviewing this thread when this idea popped into my head. I suppose it came about out of my desire to see the Silver Millennium reentering galactic politics, and the problems theyÆd face as a result of such a decision.
 

drakensis

Well-Known Member
#86
It's a good scene. I haven't read any of the Culture books for a long time.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#87
Thank you. I just recently read ôConsider Phlebasö, ôThe Player of Gamesö, ôUse of Weaponsö and ôLook to Windwardö so the Culture is still fresh in my mind. One of the great things about the Culture is that itÆs really easy to insert/crossover/fuse them into another universe, and their tendency to meddle in the development of younger races gives you a starting point for interaction.

edit

I must admit the story youÆve presented has really got me thinking about how the moon kingdom's past and future has and continues to impact the destiny of the Universe at large. I mean would Usagi and Tenchi just sign some form of Alliance pact, or would the nobles try to force a marriage, neither party wants, to seal the deal? If Variable Gravity Wells (Space Monsters) are the Galaxies anti-bodies, were they formed as a response to Sailor GalaxiaÆs rampage? Are lost ships like the Sword Breaker a result of some ancient weapons experiment buried by the Moon Kingdom, and for that matter what do they know about the galactic ley lines?

Yeah IÆll stop, but you kind of see what thoughts this discussion has wrought in my mind.
 

Aranfan

Well-Known Member
#89
When in the Sailor Moon timeline is this set anyway?
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#90
Minds simulate the physics of entire alternate universes for fun.

This implies that they've almost certainly discovered magic, lighthawk wings, et cetera.

Does this mean that their Orbital Hub Minds use their avatars as Orbital Senshi?
 

drakensis

Well-Known Member
#91
Aranfan said:
When in the Sailor Moon timeline is this set anyway?
I'm not sure myself. Probably versus the Dark Kingdom, since any later would raise the question of why Apollo didn't BDZ the North Pole.

And yes. He would. (It isn't really worth asking if he could).
 

Aranfan

Well-Known Member
#92
Maybe he could of been out of system at the time?
 

AbyssalDaemon

Well-Known Member
#93
drakensis said:
Aranfan said:
When in the Sailor Moon timeline is this set anyway?
I'm not sure myself. Probably versus the Dark Kingdom, since any later would raise the question of why Apollo didn't BDZ the North Pole.

And yes. He would. (It isn't really worth asking if he could).
It being too dangerous to do so? Given Metallia's nature trying to simply BDZ her is most likely to make her stronger then anything else unless Apollo was very, very lucky.
 

drakensis

Well-Known Member
#94
That's entirely possible. However, Apollo's perspective would be that you never know until you try. In his experience it's astonishing how many extra-dimensional beings will be injured by the application of massive kinetic and/or thermal energy.
 

AbyssalDaemon

Well-Known Member
#95
drakensis said:
That's entirely possible. However, Apollo's perspective would be that you never know until you try. In his experience it's astonishing how many extra-dimensional beings will be injured by the application of massive kinetic and/or thermal energy.
Thermal energy would be considered useless against Metallia given that it was supposed to have emerged from the sun. As for kinetic attacks they might work but it's highly doubtful given Metallia nature as a energy based entity and ability to absorb energy. It'd most likely simply absorb the energies released form kinetic impacts and regain its' lost power quicker then it did in cannon. Leaving Apollo in the equivalent of a catch-22.

Sorta off note but Metallia (nor any of the other villains that happen to appear in cannon) aren't extra-dimensional beings. Metallia for example is supposed to be recovering her power in a castle several miles below ground in the Arctic.
 

raisins

Well-Known Member
#96
I love legal nuts and bolts drama. I'm assuming Apollo eventually concedes Queen Serenity intended the reincarnated Usagi to be heir and his own survival is a happy accident with unintended consequences to that plan. Presumably the Throne will listen to her, which will be useful. That may cause conflict in the short term. Possible AI civil war with a 'Monarchist' coup and counter-coup?

We know the computers are so old and complex they are semi-sentient: this can help. Absolute rules can be bent very far by rationalization. Once you've got your super AI saying "Well, technically..." you're in for interesting times.

Apollo is searching the laws, so there may be fun loopholes or precedents. What changes the makeup of the various governing bodies? Is it based on population? How often does it happen? Say if the population of the Moon Kingdom citizens proper is currently 8, therefore the Senate(or whatever) is now made up of one district electing one member etc. Who is a citizen and does reincarnation count for that? Can the Regent grant citizenship? Can 'naturalized immigrants' be members of the government? Do Senshi automatically have any sort of civil or military authority?


So maybe in the near future:
1) Sailor Mars was not a citizen because she was born on earth to Terran parents.
2) Has been granted citizenship by the Regent.
3) Was possibly already a citizen because as a Senshi she has an effective military rank (but is technically a civilian).
4) Has won election to the Senate, by acclamation.
5) Throne did not acknowledge her nomination as immigrants cannot be Senators.
6) The military AIs agree she was a full citizen as she is in the military.
7) The military AIs no longer listen to her as only civilians can be Senators and she is thus not in the military.
8) Etc., Clusterfuck.
9) Profit.
 

Hellfire

Well-Known Member
#97
I never got around to saying it, but I like the titles play off of The Armageddon Inheritance.

I do hope to see a revealing. My favorite scene from Mutineers' Moon (more parallels) is the General surveying the damage a Mutineer nuke did and contemplating the two sides.
 

marthf1

Well-Known Member
#99
Wow, this story is impressive on so many levels. Particularly the meaningful discussion regarding succession & the AIs. I hope you can iron out the kinks in issues with the story, drakensis.

Eh, I have liked the concept of the Old Silver Millenium's fleets partially surviving since I have first read them.

Hmm, since Ami is a genius & has the Mercury computer, if she is tapped for assistance, maybe she can help Apollo figure things out.

Out of curiousity, how do the AIs become constructed? I think the ship Apollo originally woke up on had one & since he has had more ships of that class constructed, at the very least, they should have one too, right? Or are those AIs mostly verbal computers? Perhaps if it is the latter, given enough time & learning, could he modify those constructs to be implemented without problematic directives/laws installed?

So far, it seems Apollo was able to avoid an galactic politic battles or power plays. Here's to hoping that he will never have to during his Regency.

Also, I believe drakensis said that Apollo gained control due to a misinterpretation of the laws on his part (heh, reminds me of that Ronald Reagan movie) - I thought the computer assigned him all his roles? In any case, will there be an issue if he is called on it? And would it affect his dealings with the reincarnated Sailor Senshi?
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
So hereÆs a question, would Apollo make use of any prisoners that were in stasis or had been banished to deep space? I mean what if the Moon Kingdom had an agent or agents that overstepped the bounds of their authority. What if they killed, what they felt, was a clear and present danger to the stability of the Kingdom without, or even against, the orders of the crown? The Queen can not have her agents defying her orders, or be seen taking the law into their own hands. Even though they were loyal they had to be punished. Thus they were banished to the depths of space.

Could Apollo make use of their talents? Would he knowing what theyÆve done in the past?

What about political rivals who believed in the Moon Kingdom, but felt that a monarchy wasnÆt the best way to run things. For the most part their protests were civil, peaceful and reasonable. However, a bunch of radicals took over and caused some suffering on both sides. As penance for their part in these actions they go into voluntarily exile/stasis.

These people do not hate the line of Serenity, and feel that, to date, theyÆve done a good job. They just feel that in the long run, a monarchy is a bad idea. They would be more than willing to help rebuilding, though theyÆd argue with the Mau about how things should be done. Not at first, as the first order of business is to get things up and running again. Eventually though, they are going to have some opinions about how things should be done.
 
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