The Breaker

nairit

Well-Known Member
I really want Shioon to go Soul-Crushing Strike on him in the face.

Or Black Origin Threshold.

Like, destroy his face.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
nairit said:
I really want Shioon to go Soul-Crushing Strike on him in the face.

Or Black Origin Threshold.

Like, destroy his face.
Not going to happen. He'll probably resist a little at first, and then accept him. He might not resist at all in fact. Despite the fact that he definitely dislikes the guy, he doesn't have a lot of options.

Plus, knowing what we know now, was he really all that evil?

Sure he was a jerk who worked towards his own ambitions, probably had a big hand in creating the Nine Arts Dragon, but he was also fighting against a known terrorist and murderer and his insurgent group. Shiwoon didn't know who he had shacked up with really until the end of the most recent events.

He isn't really any worse than several of the other masters, and that includes the Ghost Doctor.

Shiwoon has some personal issues with the guy, but he needs his help and I think he's in the right position to know it. He got his ass handed to him by Chunwoo and only survived because he wasn't seriously trying to kill him. He might be the only one who realizes that, but I'm pretty sure he knows it.

I think he knows not to fully trust him, but he probably will more than he should knowing his character.

I'm left wondering if the next part will start after a time jump, or if we'll just pick up where we left off?
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
burnerx7 said:
Who the hell is that guy?
Seriously?

He's the main bad guy from The Breaker, the former Alliance Chief Hyun Won Moon. He's the guy Chunwoo was trying to get to and kill through the entire first series. He's the guy he was fighting when Shiho was shot and killed on the rooftop at the climax of the Breaker.
Did you not read Breaker before starting New Wave? If you haven't you should, a lot more about it will make sense if you do.
 

burnerx7

Well-Known Member
I started to read until New Wave, I've been learning about murim etc.. with the sequel, and I don't have that much interest to start reading the first series, also thanks, I didn't knew the name of the guy so I couldn't start searching him
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
He's not? He was against the same people before as he's against now. Shioon is the one on a different side than he was when they last met
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
Leidolf said:
Why is he doing a Heel-Face turn?
What Amodelsino said.

Plus, I'm willing to bet his motivations aren't entirely altruistic.

If someone in this thread still hasn't read the chapter or figured out who we're talking about at this point, spoilers ahead.

The guy has a hate boner for Chunwoo as it is, training his own disciple to take him down sounds like more than enough motivation for him.

He was a dick with his personal motives to learn Black Threshold and helped create Nine Arts Dragon, but the truth of the matter is that on the whole he was right and Chunwoo is a terrorist. The guy is a huge threat to Murim and the world at large and needs to be stopped.

He's not a good guy, but he's not really any more evil than Ghost Doctor or some of the other masters. He's a dick because he's essentially a politician and looking out for his own interests more than others, but he's the lesser evil and at this point Shiwoon will realize it. He's made allies of people just as bad as him in the past, so I don't see why he'll behave any differently now.

Plus, he wasn't the one who killed Shiho. I'm sure Chunwoo would blame him for it, but there's no reason to think that Shinwoon will blame him for it. He even offered to help her, with conditions of course. He was a dick, but his aggression was entirely focused on Nine Arts, who was trying to kill him at the time.
 

jakkuzarippa

Well-Known Member
I tend to find the trend of most Manwha being much more along the lines of "shades of gray" when compared to manga (even seinen), which is pretty straight in its black/white thinking.

Like others have said, manipulative manipulators gonna manipulate. The only thing of intrigue left is how is Shioon going to evolve. His attempt at righteousness and nobility was all well and good during New Waves , but just like pt. 1, his lack of power makes for a pretty disappointing and tragic result many of the times (Elder Jeon, Elder Kwon). But there were also moments of progress (saving Sera from the S.U.C., fighting Cool-Guy to save Jinnie). Basically, he became able enough to handle mooks and mid-level bosses, but is still a long way off from touching any of the Masters (see his various "fights" with Kwon, Ghost Doctor, or Nine-arts) or even younger geniuses So-Chun, who's set up to be his main rival/lancer.

Unlike other series, I'm willing to give this the benefit of the doubt, since Shioon still interests me as a character because he was not Murim from birth. Hell, he wasn't even the most mentally tough or noble-spirited if you look at the very beginning of the series. But there is a constant evolution, and hopefully the next series doesn't fuck it up (like Naruto did).
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
Actually at the end he was easily at the level of masters. Glasses government dude had fought and defeated masters before. He wasn't at the level of the top ten superhuman monsters that they constantly referred to throughout the series, which is what Kwon and Ghost Doctor were among.

Basically being the master of a murim martial art doesn't actually seem to make you super powerful. It's not much of a qualifier for someone to be a master when you're dealing with the top tier. At that point it's the people themselves who are all naturally scary motherfuckers. They just happen to also have perfected their arts to maximize that power they have (which was the difference between Shioon and Nine Arts).
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
I'm mixed on how everything is going. I mean, I get they tried to pull a redemption for the former Alliance Leader, Cool Guy, and Whip Goth, but the former was a a**hole who used Shi-Woon as a human shield and then went crazy, and the latter did lead a force of gangsters into attacking innocent people and had more than a few kills going by how they act. Even if you could convince me to that Cool Guy gets a pass, the redemption crap gets old.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
How is this 'redemption' for the the old guy? He did what he did because he was willing to go to any lengths to achieve his goals. Training Shioon at this point will achieve his goals. Again, Shioon changed sides, not him. Unless we see something to indicate so in the epilogue, there is currently absolutely no reason to assume he has changed in any way.

The only thing that has changed is our understanding of the situation. So some of his actions seem better in light of him essentially being right about the danger of the people trying to break down the separation between the Murim and normal world, and about Chunwoo himself.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
Amodelsino said:
How is this 'redemption' for the the old guy? He did what he did because he was willing to go to any lengths to achieve his goals. Training Shioon at this point will achieve his goals. Again, Shioon changed sides, not him. Unless we see something to indicate so in the epilogue, there is currently absolutely no reason to assume he has changed in any way.

The only thing that has changed is our understanding of the situation. So some of his actions seem better in light of him essentially being right about the danger of the people trying to break down the separation between the Murim and normal world, and about Chunwoo himself.
It doesn't hurt that there is another way for him to possibly learn Black Threshold now as well in Shiwoon.

This was his ultimate goal with Nine Arts Dragon and why he wanted him captured and not killed. Chunwoo was the only person alive who knew the technique. He wanted that technique, and now he's going to be mentoring another who knows it. This is a lot of motivation for him to help Shiwoon out to possibly learn the secrets of the technique.

This probably has more to do with his motivations to help Shinwoon more than anything else. It doesn't hurt that they are now on the same side, though that in itself is debatable. They're both fighting for Murim now and to keep things stable, but I don't know that I'd call them allies at this point, even if their goals are aligning for the moment.

If nothing else, Shiwoon knows he can't trust the guy and that he'd stab him in the back in a moment if it was to his advantage. Even if he was right about a lot, he's still a nasty guy who caused a lot of trouble and pain for his own ambitions.
 

shiki

Well-Known Member
Eh, we all know Old Asshole is going to die anyways in the middle of the last thrid.

Shioon might as well absorb some techniques from other clans while he is at it. Plus Shioon has already learned that he can't entrust his heart with his masters anymore or it will destroy him so the apprenticeship with that old-effer will be worlds of good for him in more ways than one.

It also gives him even tighter ties with Murim since he pretty much becomes the Heir apparent as he is the (apparently)favored child of the past two leaders from the eyes of one that doesn't know the whole story. Hell, it also gives him the added protections of legitimacy beyond the Sunwoo Clan since his Loli is bound to pop up sooner or later.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
Yeah, that was a cheap trick. It would have been fine to end things with like a montage of everyone doing something, but they cut off on literally the page where the dead is brought back to life. That's going to nag me until they start again.

On the plus side, Evil Homeless Dude got what he had coming. Looking forward to seeing So-Sul when she gets an older body. Hoping she and Shi Woon don't have to fight one another for leadership of the Clan.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
It's pretty clearly gearing up so that even if he lost technical leadership of the Sunwoo he'd still have more powerful allies and (effectively) subordinates just from his personal relationships. So he could just give it back to her and it wouldn't actually change anything.

That's if he doesn't end up the actual leader of the whole Murim before she even shows up again too.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
Was not expecting the dead to wake up right then, but knew it was coming. She'll probably not remember anything and will end up being a total mess.

It'll be interesting to see what effect seeing her will have on Nine Arts. You know that will happen at some point.
 

Knyght

The Collector
I feel like this chapter and the last chapter would have been better off swapped around, ending Part 2 with a parallel to the end of the Part 1 rather than another abrupt cliffhanger.

Evil Homeless Dude just straight up confirming that Loli Sunwoo would become babelicious with the medicine - and then getting burnt to ash for mocking Shioon - amused me at least.

I actually forgot all about Shiho. I think I expected her to show up during the climax because Nine Arts but I guess not.

And Bishi Bro has the lamest revenge face ever, btw.

Welp, time for an all-out re-read.
 

shiki

Well-Known Member
Well, this chapter made my bold claims from last chapter seem like reasonable claims.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
knight504 said:
I feel like this chapter and the last chapter would have been better off swapped around, ending Part 2 with a parallel to the end of the Part 1 rather than another abrupt cliffhanger.
Completely agree. The old dude asking him if he wanted to stand above Nine Arts Dragon as the final page of part 2 would have been significantly better than one we got, which looked like it belonged in the middle of a chapter.
 
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