Kaijo said:
Personal opinion. But since Thoma is a male Nanoha, you must not like her, either.
Nice ad hominem attack, but no. Nanoha was abnormal in that she had a ton of magical power, but she literally worked herself to near-death over the course of several years to get where she is now, and even when she toned it down after her recovery she still worked hard. She was also incredibly mature for her age, even when she was
nine, and has only matured further from there.
By contrast, Thoma is a very typical, male, angst-ridden main character with a Story Breaker Power pulled out of nowhere that can beat out the established and well-developed main characters of previous seasons with little effort. Oh, and he feels a debt towards the Huckebein for receiving help from them despite the fact they're wanted criminals. His latest comments to both Signum and Cypha, where he wishes both the hero and the psychotic good luck and tells them to do their best before they fight, suggest Tohma has serious issues.
You'd have to have some understanding of human psychology to understand, but Fortis addresses this. They did have problems with it early on, but got used to it. When someone is repeatedly forced to do something they don't like, a strange thing happens... the mind changes and begins to like it. It's a self-protection mechanism. A sort of "Well, if I'm doing something I like, then it's not so bad, is it?" And we're only seeing the ones who made it this far. Those that couldn't make the switch, most likely went insane and were killed.
If there was any evidence of that, perhaps in a flashback, I would grant you that. However, there is none. At all. It's simply an Informed Flaw.
See above, but where did they gloat that they killed millions? Veyron and Cypha did do some gloating... but they were also goading their opponents at the time. Taunting a do-gooder to get them off-balance is a time-tested battle technique.
Okay, maybe millions was a bit high. Make it more like thousands.
Each. That's not much better. It took Cypha a few minutes to remember exactly which colony Signum was accusing her of slaughtering, in spite of the fact that she personally murdered every single one of the nearly eighty inhabitants. This implies that she has done it many times before. Oh, and that colony? It was the population of the
entire planet.
Arnage strips Isis naked for absolutely no reason, then mocks her lack of a bust.
Stella Irvine refers to the TSAB Forces intruding on their ship as "bugs" and argues that the TSAB
shouldn't be coming after them for their killings since they do them on non-administrated worlds.
When Fortis finds records on Tohma of his home town being wiped out, he says matter-of-factly that Huckebein couldn't be responsible. If they had, not even Touma would have been left alive. He says this calmly, with a smile on his face.
How are they complete Mary Sues in every way?
Since the appearance of the Huckebein, who are completely immune to magical attacks, the TSAB ban on mass based weapons has been relaxed somewhat. As a result Special Service Section 6 is now equipped with experimental hybrid weapons that convert magical energy into pure kinetic energy or plasma... and are still proving mostly useless against the Huckebein. These weapons can punch through
starship armor, therefore the Hucks somehow have personal armor greater than a battleship.
Conventional devices
shatter upon contact with their bodies. On top of their invincibility, they have near-instantaneous regeneration, so if you DO manage to somehow wound them it will do jack and shit. When they "react" they acquire new Divider forms and in some cases new armor and physical features. They also become
more invincible.
To top it all off,
all of them know exactly how invincible they are, and won't hesitate to tell you how futile it is to try and fight them.
I presume you are referring to the plotline where the TSAB never captures Thoma? It's a fair personal, subjective criticism, but hardly ruins the entire series. And you might want to avoid snap knee-jerk decisions, since the manga isn't over and if my guess is correct, Thoma will eventually run from the TSAB.
Here's Thoma's introduction: We meet him, then find out that he's Subaru's little sister, and they have known each other for years. Then we find out that he's good friends with the rest of the Nanoha cast. Anyone remember him from StrikerS? The Sound Stages?
Vivid?! No. It's a horrible case of Remember The New Guy. And no, this by itself wouldn't ruin Force for most people. It's this on top of everything else.
The latter doesn't make much sense (as you seem to have have a bit of a sentence error), but as for the former... useless? With untested weapons that had flaws, they fought the previously invulnerable Hucks to a standstill and recovered all kidnapped victims. They stopped Thoma's emo mode and brought him back to normal. That doesn't quite qualify as "useless" in any definition of the word. And they are getting more adept at fighting Eclipse infectees and the Hucks (for example, Signum can now overpower Cypha), and making inroads in their investigation, slowly unraveling the conspiracy.
You're kidding, right? The powerups they specifically created to deal with the Hucks do jack and shit. Recently they were all curbstomped by one of the Hucks, and how did they survive? Deus Ex Machina. The bad guy literally said "I could kill you now, but I won't." No reason was give. At all.
Force is basically everything that Nanoha has done before, just a bit more gruesome and dark. Anything you point to, you'll find in a previous Nanoha season, just a bit more gruesome and dark.
It's not dark. It's not even grimdark. It's grim
derp.
Kireen said:
It's not that they are totally unlikeable, Cypha in the last (translated) chapters became more likeable as she showed us how she cares, in her way, for Thoma (in my opinion at least). And as far as we know there's more to the 'we need to kill to survive', like in the other series there was more beside the precia is just a madwoman and the BoD is just a cursed tome, until the story progress we don't know exactly whats going on.
Precia was never sympathetic, even in the movie when her Freudian Excuse was expanded upon. As for the Wolkenritter, very early on they were established to be reluctant to fight, and shown to be sympathetic. Fate was apologetic when we first met her. The Huckebein are not sympathetic in any way. See above as to why they're so unlikeable.
And well, a society that's heavily based on magic found itself threatened by a group of people that can nullify it, I'd say that's obvious that our ld heroes are going to have problems with them until they have proper information on them and they start to produce proper countermeasures.
Again, see my above response. The heroes have developed power armor and mass-based weapons that can punch through starship armor that should work against the Huckebein. They do
absolutely nothing
Heck, so far I've got more complaints about Strikers (that I still liked quite a bit) than the ones I have for Force.
StrikerS does have its fair bit of problems, namely in that they mostly replaced the old cast and tried to fit two seasons worth of material into one season, and the plot suffered for it. But saying it's worse than Force? No. Just, no.
You want more? I can go on. In fact, I asked some guys to explain just why Force is so bad, mentioning that I knew a few people that didn't realize how goddamn awful Force is. They were more than eager to help, and told me to wait a bit while they retrieve their explanations.
