The Perfect Lionheart of...
- Thread starter Andrew Joshua Talon
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@Chaotic Symbolism, don't forget this gem from his profile as well
I had an absolute gem of a response to this in the Naruto destroy fics topic, but I'm too lazy to find it right now. So I'll write a fresh response in the dissection of this.
During the Chunin Exam preliminaries, Kiba told Hinata to quit if she faced Gaara or Neji. Gaara, if you will remember, killed three mooks in the Forest of Death, while Team 8, which both Kiba and Hinata are members of, witnessed. This was while Gaara was insane fucking psycho. So Kiba obviously thought Gaara would kill Hinata if she attempted to fight him. Interestingly enough, I don't think a single fic (of those who weren't lazy enough to keep all the canon matches) has ever had Hinata go up against Gaara. But never mind that, I think it's fair to say Kiba was justified in pleading with Hinata to quit if she was matched up against Gaara.
Now, Neji. Let's look at Naruto: during the fight between Neji and Hinata, he was the character holding the dumb ball so we could get exposition about what the Byakugan was capable of. He held the dumb ball again in his own fight against Neji so we could get plot exposition on the Hyuga Main and Branch house. So, in other words, prior to the fight between Neji and Hinata, he has not a flipping clue what the Byakugan can do, nor does he have any idea that Neji would hold a grudge against Hinata.
Kiba does. He's teammates with Hinata, so he would know PRECISELY what the Byakugan does. He's a clan kid, and between that and being teammates with Hinata, he likely has some inkling of the Hyuga clan politics, and would know that Neji has a grudge against Hinata, and why. He also (probably) knows Neji is really tough, and that Hinata wouldn't dare use the Caged Bird Seal, so again, knowing what the Byakugan can do, he could easily see Neji possibly maiming or even killing his cousin in a fit of rage.
Now I'm diverging away from dracohalo's quote up there, but I'm on a roll, so don't stop me. Naruto's actions during the preliminary match, to encourage Hinata to stand up to Neji, make sense in the context of the manga, since he's holding the idiot ball and doesn't know all this. However, a lot of fanfics completely ignore this and make it so that he knows everything about the Byakugan, how the Gentle Fist can quite easily be used to maim and kill, and that Neji has the motivation to hurt Hinata. These same fanfics then make him do exactly the same as in canon, and tell Hinata to get back up and continue fighting Neji.
I'm sorry, what?
So in those fanfics, Naruto is one twisted motherfucker who is literally trying to get Hinata killed.
But I digress, that's why I find it rather unreasonable to hate on Kiba just because he tells Hinata to quit if she gets matched up against Gaara or Neji.
I had an absolute gem of a response to this in the Naruto destroy fics topic, but I'm too lazy to find it right now. So I'll write a fresh response in the dissection of this.
During the Chunin Exam preliminaries, Kiba told Hinata to quit if she faced Gaara or Neji. Gaara, if you will remember, killed three mooks in the Forest of Death, while Team 8, which both Kiba and Hinata are members of, witnessed. This was while Gaara was insane fucking psycho. So Kiba obviously thought Gaara would kill Hinata if she attempted to fight him. Interestingly enough, I don't think a single fic (of those who weren't lazy enough to keep all the canon matches) has ever had Hinata go up against Gaara. But never mind that, I think it's fair to say Kiba was justified in pleading with Hinata to quit if she was matched up against Gaara.
Now, Neji. Let's look at Naruto: during the fight between Neji and Hinata, he was the character holding the dumb ball so we could get exposition about what the Byakugan was capable of. He held the dumb ball again in his own fight against Neji so we could get plot exposition on the Hyuga Main and Branch house. So, in other words, prior to the fight between Neji and Hinata, he has not a flipping clue what the Byakugan can do, nor does he have any idea that Neji would hold a grudge against Hinata.
Kiba does. He's teammates with Hinata, so he would know PRECISELY what the Byakugan does. He's a clan kid, and between that and being teammates with Hinata, he likely has some inkling of the Hyuga clan politics, and would know that Neji has a grudge against Hinata, and why. He also (probably) knows Neji is really tough, and that Hinata wouldn't dare use the Caged Bird Seal, so again, knowing what the Byakugan can do, he could easily see Neji possibly maiming or even killing his cousin in a fit of rage.
Now I'm diverging away from dracohalo's quote up there, but I'm on a roll, so don't stop me. Naruto's actions during the preliminary match, to encourage Hinata to stand up to Neji, make sense in the context of the manga, since he's holding the idiot ball and doesn't know all this. However, a lot of fanfics completely ignore this and make it so that he knows everything about the Byakugan, how the Gentle Fist can quite easily be used to maim and kill, and that Neji has the motivation to hurt Hinata. These same fanfics then make him do exactly the same as in canon, and tell Hinata to get back up and continue fighting Neji.
I'm sorry, what?
So in those fanfics, Naruto is one twisted motherfucker who is literally trying to get Hinata killed.
But I digress, that's why I find it rather unreasonable to hate on Kiba just because he tells Hinata to quit if she gets matched up against Gaara or Neji.
The fuck are you on about? The prelims are just supposed to be tests. Killing isn't disbarred, but it is frowned upon, and there's no reason to believe that members of the same village, nevermind the same family, would try to use the test as an excuse to get away with murder.
Half the reason I hate Neji's character is because he was willing to straight-up murder Hinata just because of his own bitchfest with the Main House, and he would have murdered Naruto, too, in the finals. Or do you not remember him flippantly telling Genma that he was going to kill Naruto now, and to call the match if he wanted Naruto to live?
Naruto had no way of knowing that Neji was that much of a psychotic bastard. No one did. His attitude was completely fucked-off and came totally out of the left field. Even Neji's own teammates were shocked. Blaming Naruto for encouraging Hinata, even if he knew what the Byakugan and the Jyuuken were capable of, would be pretending that Neji is some kind of animal that is incapable of being held responsible for his actions, and that Naruto must somehow be held accountable for daring to encourage Hinata to face her fears, even though no one had any idea that Neji would take it so far.
Half the reason I hate Neji's character is because he was willing to straight-up murder Hinata just because of his own bitchfest with the Main House, and he would have murdered Naruto, too, in the finals. Or do you not remember him flippantly telling Genma that he was going to kill Naruto now, and to call the match if he wanted Naruto to live?
Naruto had no way of knowing that Neji was that much of a psychotic bastard. No one did. His attitude was completely fucked-off and came totally out of the left field. Even Neji's own teammates were shocked. Blaming Naruto for encouraging Hinata, even if he knew what the Byakugan and the Jyuuken were capable of, would be pretending that Neji is some kind of animal that is incapable of being held responsible for his actions, and that Naruto must somehow be held accountable for daring to encourage Hinata to face her fears, even though no one had any idea that Neji would take it so far.
Really, all you need to know about Dracohalo117 is that he really hates Minato and Kushina. You're basically guaranteed to see Naruto rant at his parents in his fics. I'd hate on him more but meh.
As far as Naruto fanfiction goes, <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1481818/Aragon_Potter' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Aragon Potter</a> is pretty bad. Not only are his works bad, but they're all basically re-imaginings (or ripoffs) of other fics that weren't even that good to begin with (Mizukage). Reading Chapter 2 of Raikage is complete and utter torture (the author basically tells us about all the pranks Konohamaru played in a ten year period in what I swear is an 10k+ word segment).
As far as Naruto fanfiction goes, <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1481818/Aragon_Potter' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Aragon Potter</a> is pretty bad. Not only are his works bad, but they're all basically re-imaginings (or ripoffs) of other fics that weren't even that good to begin with (Mizukage). Reading Chapter 2 of Raikage is complete and utter torture (the author basically tells us about all the pranks Konohamaru played in a ten year period in what I swear is an 10k+ word segment).
Be fair, Raine--that's a bit of a misrepresentation of what happened. Neji didn't go for the kill until the very end, and while no one here is going to argue that it's Neji's moral failing for doing such a thing at all, you must admit that Hinata said something really stupid, which as a rule you should not do to someone who is beating the crap out of you.
And note that be for he got to that point, he disabled her in several non-lethal ways, told her to surrender, and gave her a number of chances to do so. There were three instances where Hinata could have just walked away with little more than a wounded pride. Instead, because of Naruto, Hinata stood up again and again. But Neji still didn't go for a lethal blow until after she mouthed off to the guy who both hated her and had proven himself better than her in a fight which she knew could become lethal.
Again, this doesn't Neji justified or put him in the right or even make him less of a dick, but it does make Hinata look incredibly stupid for taunting a psycho and it makes Naruto even dumber for egging her on.
The same, in fact, is true of Naruto's fight. Neji took Naruto down several times and gave him just as many chances to surrender. He disabled him in a number of different ways before, again, closing Naruto's chakra points in a completely non-lethal or even dangerous fashion. Naruto stood up each time. It was only after Naruto stood up and demanded the fight continue after his ability to chakra that Neji turned to the judge and said he should stop the fight or Naruto would die.
And let's face it, from Neji's perspective, Naruto was now a powerless punk and Neji was still a trained ninja. That fight would have ended horribly, so he was actually pretty kind (in a dickish sort of way) for asking the judge to interfere.
Of course, Naruto was bailed out by the Kyuubi and one could argue whether that was cheating, I won't, because fuck, they're ninjas. Besides, Naruto was kinda surviving completely on the Kyuubi at that point. The only named character he'd beaten without it was Kiba, and that was luck. I will say, however, that it kind of subverts Naruto's claim of becoming strong enough to beat Neji, since he couldn't beat Neji.
But even after he thought he'd taken Naruto down for the final time, Naruto was still alive, and while Neji gloated like an ass, he didn't try to off him, either.
Anyway, in both fights, he gave many chances to surrender, and while he was definitely crazy for reaching lethal measures at all, he didn't do it until they'd gotten up repeatedly after he'd disabled their ability to fight effectively. And even then, only tried to go through with it against Hinata, who really should learn not to taunt psycho's. Pain hit her for the same reason, I think.
Neji is definitely responsible and no one's saying he's not.
But he kept telling Hinata to get up every time Neji beat the crap out of her. Even after he disabled her ability to use Chakra and there was no way for her to win. At that point, telling her to continue to get up when the only result was for her to get smacked down was kind of cruel. She wouldn't have gotten hurt much at all if she'd just stayed down the first time. Or second time. Or third time.
At that point, you just have to go 'Oh my God, Naruto, what do you expect her to do? Just let her quit, please?'
Neji's definitely responsible for hurting her, but, he didn't attack her except in response to her either getting up or attacking him (and it was a legal fight, besides), so on some level, the degree of her injuries is her fault because she kept attacking the obviously superior opponent, which she did because of Naruto. It doesn't make Neji less of a dick, but you can't deny she'd have been just fine if she'd walked away at any of, like, three points.
Also: Tell me if you ever get around to MSTing The Dragonmasters.
And note that be for he got to that point, he disabled her in several non-lethal ways, told her to surrender, and gave her a number of chances to do so. There were three instances where Hinata could have just walked away with little more than a wounded pride. Instead, because of Naruto, Hinata stood up again and again. But Neji still didn't go for a lethal blow until after she mouthed off to the guy who both hated her and had proven himself better than her in a fight which she knew could become lethal.
Again, this doesn't Neji justified or put him in the right or even make him less of a dick, but it does make Hinata look incredibly stupid for taunting a psycho and it makes Naruto even dumber for egging her on.
The same, in fact, is true of Naruto's fight. Neji took Naruto down several times and gave him just as many chances to surrender. He disabled him in a number of different ways before, again, closing Naruto's chakra points in a completely non-lethal or even dangerous fashion. Naruto stood up each time. It was only after Naruto stood up and demanded the fight continue after his ability to chakra that Neji turned to the judge and said he should stop the fight or Naruto would die.
And let's face it, from Neji's perspective, Naruto was now a powerless punk and Neji was still a trained ninja. That fight would have ended horribly, so he was actually pretty kind (in a dickish sort of way) for asking the judge to interfere.
Of course, Naruto was bailed out by the Kyuubi and one could argue whether that was cheating, I won't, because fuck, they're ninjas. Besides, Naruto was kinda surviving completely on the Kyuubi at that point. The only named character he'd beaten without it was Kiba, and that was luck. I will say, however, that it kind of subverts Naruto's claim of becoming strong enough to beat Neji, since he couldn't beat Neji.
But even after he thought he'd taken Naruto down for the final time, Naruto was still alive, and while Neji gloated like an ass, he didn't try to off him, either.
Anyway, in both fights, he gave many chances to surrender, and while he was definitely crazy for reaching lethal measures at all, he didn't do it until they'd gotten up repeatedly after he'd disabled their ability to fight effectively. And even then, only tried to go through with it against Hinata, who really should learn not to taunt psycho's. Pain hit her for the same reason, I think.
Neji is definitely responsible and no one's saying he's not.
But he kept telling Hinata to get up every time Neji beat the crap out of her. Even after he disabled her ability to use Chakra and there was no way for her to win. At that point, telling her to continue to get up when the only result was for her to get smacked down was kind of cruel. She wouldn't have gotten hurt much at all if she'd just stayed down the first time. Or second time. Or third time.
At that point, you just have to go 'Oh my God, Naruto, what do you expect her to do? Just let her quit, please?'
Neji's definitely responsible for hurting her, but, he didn't attack her except in response to her either getting up or attacking him (and it was a legal fight, besides), so on some level, the degree of her injuries is her fault because she kept attacking the obviously superior opponent, which she did because of Naruto. It doesn't make Neji less of a dick, but you can't deny she'd have been just fine if she'd walked away at any of, like, three points.
Also: Tell me if you ever get around to MSTing The Dragonmasters.
I never said Neji wanted to kill Hinata, you're taking words out of my mouth. Did he end up trying to kill her? Yes, and it was entirely spur of the moment. I said that Kiba could possibly see Neji maiming or killing Hinata 'in a fit of rage'.
But anyways, first and foremost. You claim that nobody knew Neji would go psycho like he did at the end of the match, but <a href='http://i25.mangareader.net/naruto/80/naruto-1690.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Gai saw the possibility</a>. That's why he asked Neji to promise not to lose his head. Fair to say that if he knew Neji going psycho was possible, other people who know the whole Branch House situation might. <a href='http://i23.mangareader.net/naruto/78/naruto-1644.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Lee</a> knows about the whole Main House-Branch House divide, so it's fair to say <a href='http://i11.mangareader.net/naruto/78/naruto-1640.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Kiba</a> could have thought so as well, saying that she would 'get beaten to a pulp'.
Anyways, Naruto does <a href='http://i39.mangareader.net/naruto/80/naruto-1678.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a>, after Hinata is already coughing up blood. And finally, he does <a href='http://i9.mangareader.net/naruto/80/naruto-1684.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a>, after Hinata is lying on the floor after Neji delivered his final attack.
Hell, even his pre-battle speech shows Neji's feelings. You don't say something like that to your family member unless you really have a grudge.
But anyways, first and foremost. You claim that nobody knew Neji would go psycho like he did at the end of the match, but <a href='http://i25.mangareader.net/naruto/80/naruto-1690.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Gai saw the possibility</a>. That's why he asked Neji to promise not to lose his head. Fair to say that if he knew Neji going psycho was possible, other people who know the whole Branch House situation might. <a href='http://i23.mangareader.net/naruto/78/naruto-1644.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Lee</a> knows about the whole Main House-Branch House divide, so it's fair to say <a href='http://i11.mangareader.net/naruto/78/naruto-1640.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Kiba</a> could have thought so as well, saying that she would 'get beaten to a pulp'.
Anyways, Naruto does <a href='http://i39.mangareader.net/naruto/80/naruto-1678.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a>, after Hinata is already coughing up blood. And finally, he does <a href='http://i9.mangareader.net/naruto/80/naruto-1684.jpg' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a>, after Hinata is lying on the floor after Neji delivered his final attack.
Hell, even his pre-battle speech shows Neji's feelings. You don't say something like that to your family member unless you really have a grudge.
The only Naruto fanfics I read nowadays are the ones on my own personal forum and I do so without the regard of canon. I kind of grew tired of the "Naruto gets angry at the village/Village assassinates Naruto" vibe at darkness, but when someone e-mailed me about this guy Kyuubi16 around New Years I went and got myself a look.
I guess things do tend to stay the same after all. I didn't know he was fairly infamous here; I personally find his writing style tiresome and annoying. His concepts generate too much into ragefests about how someone's angry at the world and forcing the world to change for them rather than moving against the current against all odds.
I wrote some tripe back in the day, but I did it to get feedback. I knew there were many things that I was doing wrong that I didn't know. That's why I like flames; they're pretty much good feedback. Authors on FF.net nowadays have this "Don't like, don't read" attitude where they should have a "Don't like, read and tell me why".
Kyuubi16 does not like negative feedback. He ignores it and drowns himself in praise. I can tolerate and navigate bad writing, but ignorance to criticism, if you have it in any shape or form, you're just not cut out to BE an author.
That's my opinion.
I guess things do tend to stay the same after all. I didn't know he was fairly infamous here; I personally find his writing style tiresome and annoying. His concepts generate too much into ragefests about how someone's angry at the world and forcing the world to change for them rather than moving against the current against all odds.
I wrote some tripe back in the day, but I did it to get feedback. I knew there were many things that I was doing wrong that I didn't know. That's why I like flames; they're pretty much good feedback. Authors on FF.net nowadays have this "Don't like, don't read" attitude where they should have a "Don't like, read and tell me why".
Kyuubi16 does not like negative feedback. He ignores it and drowns himself in praise. I can tolerate and navigate bad writing, but ignorance to criticism, if you have it in any shape or form, you're just not cut out to BE an author.
That's my opinion.
Chibi-Reaper's Overlord has a Hinata vs Gaara match, actually. It's slightly ruined by the fact that Gaara is suddenly female for no adequately explained reason ("Shuukaku is a chauvinist" is the most we get), but watching an Etna-trained Hinata beat the absolute shit out of Neji and only lose to Gaara because Gaara transformed the entire arena into a sand coffin and Hinata didn't want to reveal her demon wings yet was admittedly a guilty pleasure of mine.
Shame the fic was abandoned four years ago, though.
Shame the fic was abandoned four years ago, though.
That just sounds like author-wank and totally defeats the point of my earlier post which points out that nobody would be crying foul (well, almost nobody, some Hinata fanboys are beyond hope) if Hinata decided to forfeit upon being placed against Gaara after having already seen him be a complete monster in the FoD
This thread is perfect! Some time ago (possibly last week), I asked someone to refer me some stories to slaughter in a review. Originally I meant to put this up on my personal blog, but changed my mind.
And yes, this is going to be a long post.
First up is a little Rurouni Kenshin fanfic titled 'i need fish nothing to do with fic' which can be found here,
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1017864/1/
One glance at the story and you'll realize that someone is trolling you. It mostly consists of a WALL OF TEXT. But for sake of review, lets ignore that and get started with the story.
A truly inspiring first sentence. If I didn't know any better, I would think that 'kenshin' was the name of a place. And not some random samurai the series is about. But the author is obviously doing an AU story here, so unless otherwise stated, I'm going to assume that the plot takes place in kenshin's stomach.
It would appear that I made a grave error, as Dumbledore might say. Everyone is bullying this kenshin fellow. But that would render our earlier hypothesis void - how can you bully a location? We will correct our assumption and considering the lack of further evidence, assume that kenshin is the name of some random person. Considering that he's being bullied, it would indicate that he's a wimp or some random goofball. Let's assume that he's a NEET and proceed.
Oh. Thank goodness this 'kenshin' fellow was a NEET. There's no way he would be able to obtain a cellphone in medieval japan otherwise.
So much referance to rape. Just what rating is this story anyway? (looks up). The author has rated it 'K'. Which means that its safe to show a 7 year old. Just the kind of thing a young mind needs. To be filled with the concept of rape. Might even help reduce all the 'teen-pregnancy' issues we keep hearing about. Someone should give the author a medal for the public service he has done.
The language here is just remarkable. You would think that this 'sano' chap is some punk or thug. Who else would spell 'helpo' like that?
And I offically lost it. What is this story about anyway? The text has ceased making sense.
I'll spare you readers the rest of the horror. It's more kinder to assume that it represents some super secret password someone left lying around - so as not be forgotten. What else can you call a random collection of words, punctuation and numbers?
-chronodekar
And yes, this is going to be a long post.
First up is a little Rurouni Kenshin fanfic titled 'i need fish nothing to do with fic' which can be found here,
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1017864/1/
One glance at the story and you'll realize that someone is trolling you. It mostly consists of a WALL OF TEXT. But for sake of review, lets ignore that and get started with the story.
A truly inspiring first sentence. If I didn't know any better, I would think that 'kenshin' was the name of a place. And not some random samurai the series is about. But the author is obviously doing an AU story here, so unless otherwise stated, I'm going to assume that the plot takes place in kenshin's stomach.
It would appear that I made a grave error, as Dumbledore might say. Everyone is bullying this kenshin fellow. But that would render our earlier hypothesis void - how can you bully a location? We will correct our assumption and considering the lack of further evidence, assume that kenshin is the name of some random person. Considering that he's being bullied, it would indicate that he's a wimp or some random goofball. Let's assume that he's a NEET and proceed.
Oh. Thank goodness this 'kenshin' fellow was a NEET. There's no way he would be able to obtain a cellphone in medieval japan otherwise.
So much referance to rape. Just what rating is this story anyway? (looks up). The author has rated it 'K'. Which means that its safe to show a 7 year old. Just the kind of thing a young mind needs. To be filled with the concept of rape. Might even help reduce all the 'teen-pregnancy' issues we keep hearing about. Someone should give the author a medal for the public service he has done.
The language here is just remarkable. You would think that this 'sano' chap is some punk or thug. Who else would spell 'helpo' like that?
And I offically lost it. What is this story about anyway? The text has ceased making sense.
I'll spare you readers the rest of the horror. It's more kinder to assume that it represents some super secret password someone left lying around - so as not be forgotten. What else can you call a random collection of words, punctuation and numbers?
-chronodekar
I just read this on The Engulfing Silence's profile:
If you believe in Jesus Christ put this in your profile and don't just ignore this, because in the Bible it says if you deny me, I will deny you in front of my Father in the gates of Heaven.
Has The Engulfing Silence's popularity gone to his head or is he just another in a line of pussy authors who have gone along with what is essentially religious black mail?
If you believe in Jesus Christ put this in your profile and don't just ignore this, because in the Bible it says if you deny me, I will deny you in front of my Father in the gates of Heaven.
Has The Engulfing Silence's popularity gone to his head or is he just another in a line of pussy authors who have gone along with what is essentially religious black mail?
It doesn't help that his failure to include proper quotations makes it sound like the "me" refers to him, instead of to Jesus who said the words.
But refusing to put a word about Jesus into your profile isn't the same as denying God. That certainly doesn't become any more true just because this guy is telling us to do it, either.
Besides which, denying Jesus is a sin. A sin is a sin, and salvation covers the cost of all sins.
You have to account for those sins on Judgment Day, but it can't be POSSIBLE to forfeit your salvation, because that would mean that Jesus couldn't pay for ALL of your sins.
Once God has you, he doesn't drop you, and he doesn't let you go. You're safe, forever. Even from yourself. (ESPECIALLY from yourself.)
But refusing to put a word about Jesus into your profile isn't the same as denying God. That certainly doesn't become any more true just because this guy is telling us to do it, either.
Besides which, denying Jesus is a sin. A sin is a sin, and salvation covers the cost of all sins.
You have to account for those sins on Judgment Day, but it can't be POSSIBLE to forfeit your salvation, because that would mean that Jesus couldn't pay for ALL of your sins.
Once God has you, he doesn't drop you, and he doesn't let you go. You're safe, forever. Even from yourself. (ESPECIALLY from yourself.)
Blame @TkMacintosh
this guy, who's written 14 stories, mostly for the Persona series, with an extreme cacophobia (the hatred of ugly people). Where characters go and kill ugly people. I don't even touch the stories with a twenty-foot pole, but even the summaries are enough to shit up my searches for stories to read
this guy, who's written 14 stories, mostly for the Persona series, with an extreme cacophobia (the hatred of ugly people). Where characters go and kill ugly people. I don't even touch the stories with a twenty-foot pole, but even the summaries are enough to shit up my searches for stories to read
