The Wheel Of Time

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
Alright - finished Perrin's story.

Galina is a bitch, but at least she's a broken bitch. Her only hope now is rescue by someone who knows what needs doing, or Stilling. And even then I don't think she has the will for escape.

Perrin - You know, Perrin has been so single minded in this, and as badass as he's been in that regard, I've come to realze that its also really really bad.

He is one of the 3 most important men in the world, and he's been practically ignoring the warning signs that the end of the world is nigh, even though he's neccessary to save it.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say it was a Shadow plot to keep him occupied.

The same sort of applies to Mat, except I less lay the blame on Mat, and more on Nyneave and Elayne, what with them not actually telling Rand that they left Mat in Ebou Dar, and instead implied that Mat was with Egwene at the WT.

Also, Mat is stranded, but he is also doing Light Side, Taimon Gai'don prep work, so he gets a by.

Perrin on the other hand - well, by the same logic he's taken care of the Shaido, who have been a thorn in Rands side since SR, so there's that.

I guess it kind of both cancels out.

Rand needs them, but OTOH they are doing things Rand would approve of.

I think I went off on a tangent there; whats worse, I don't even know what my original point was or if I've made it. Well, whatever.

Perrin rescues his wife, Aram dies shortly after trying to kill Perrin for being Shadowspawn, and Rolan died by Perrin's hand - you know, as annoying as he was, Rolan didn't deserve to die.

Sure he tried to seduce a married woman, and was a bit of a lech, but he also protected Faile and co from rape, was living under Gai'shin (what happens in white, stays in white) rules and intended to help her escape, and let her go once her 366 days were up.

So yeah, he deserved a ood kick in the balls and no nookie besides, but not a hammer to the face.

So, Perrin's story is finished.

I offically have no clue what happens to Perrin after this.


Next is Elayne - who finds 2 Black Sisters and goes out to capture them with 3 Aes Sedai, one of whom is Black - they just don't know who.

Their plan was to sneak into the house and surprise them, leaving their Warders behind. Yeah, fuck that, you keep Warders with you to watch your back.

That was her first and biggest mistake.

4 more Blacks appeared, sneaking up on them to shock the 4 Light Aes Sedai with some AoL weapon that reminds me of a taser.

I'm not going to lie. If it was me, I would've grabbed only available Kin, and the Windfinders, even if only to ask, and gone out in force.

I also would have taken the Warders, because they are pretty much useless outside of the house. Inside, at the very least they can serve as an early warning system for, you know, the unexpected.

So yeah, Elayne's kidnapped count needs to go up.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
Birgette does what a warder does and rescues their Aes Sedai; though the cost in men is high. And Elayne has her eye on Guybon for a potential Warder.

That' cool, I guess.

Then Elayne, completely confident she'd be fine due to Min's viewing, decides to do a pincer on the men attacking her walls.

That was actually quite a good move.

And better. It ends the seige with the capture of the High Seats of her opposing Houses.

And shortly after, the other Houses, the ones that were south in Murandy, arrive and enough jion Elayne to make her Queen. The Coronation is a mere fomality now.

Then we have Karede of the Deathwatch Guards tracking down Tuon and Mat, only he thinks Thom is the mastermind.

He quickly learns better, and is as shocked as everyonoe else whenTuon finishes marrying Mat.

Then the 2 have a discussion on the hows and whys of their marriage.

Karede is asked his opinion on Mat. Yeah, there's respect there.

Then Mat goes off to kill like, 10,000 soliders with his 8,000 men.

Yeah, he does that with minimal losses, and without the use of his Dragons. Yet. Soon though. Soon.

And Mat finds out he's a Prince now. Yeah, laughing at yourself there is probably the best option.

Then we move to the Epilouge, where Tuon puts Suroth in her place, which is cool.

And then we have 6 Reds walk into the Black Tower and ask to Bond men as Warders.

Taim agrees, to their surprise.

After all, he says, "Let the Lord of Chaos rule."

Yeah, if there were any doubts before, they are gone now. Taim's a Darkfriend.

Do we have terms for Darkfriend men who can channel? Blacks? Dreadlords? Other? Meh. Whatever you want to call it, Taim's one of them.

And finished on that book.

You know, its very easy to tell that the next book was meant to serve as the last, considering how often Taimon Gar'don was mentioned.

Mat's, Elayne's and Perrin's 3+ book storylines are all finished.

Egwene is the only main characters with a Storyline to be concluded; discounting Rand, who has the Main Main storyline as his own.

Yeah.


Next up.

The Gathering Storm.
 

grant

Well-Known Member
I think it's been mentioned before that Elayne really is stupid when it comes to Min's visions. Sure the children will be born. That doesn't mean that Elayne's actions are in any way intelligent.

Mat does something the books keep teasing at. He had a competent battle strategy. It's been shown once or twice, but most of the time we just hear from other characters that Mat's a genius tactician who won this or that off-screen battle. Of course at least some of what he does seems less genius and more basic common sense, but unfortunately writers can only have their characters show enough intelligence to be recognized by the average reader.

And Taim is a Darkfriend. No idea whether he really was intended to be Demandred and Jordan decided to change it because all the fans had figured it out but he's still a Darkfriend. So far I don't think there's a formal title but we may as well call them Dreadlords.

And Masema is still around being an irritating asshole who seems to find all sorts of ways to keep from actually being called to Rand's side. Why exactly no one's suggested using saidin or saidar (from the Wise Ones) to make him slip off a horse during battle I don't know. The Wise Ones apparently are failing to live up to their name and just keep saying 'we have to kill him' and ignoring Perrin's fairly sensible protests that doing so publicly could ruin anyone's willingness to follow Rand.
Kind of disappointed with how Aram went. It's main point was just to make it very clear to anyone who didn't get the message that Masema is a crazy bastard who needs to die. Didn't even really seem to explore the point that the Way of the Leaf is pretty dumb and counterproductive when you're actually looking at the apocalypse and all the Forces of Evil*.

*I really don't know what Jordan himself thought of it. In The Dragon Reborn Perrin's arguments with the Tinker woman have him sounding more realistic while in The Eye of the World the Tinkers seemed to be like always-right elves.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Yeah, Galina gets what's coming to her. Just disappointed that Therava doesn't think to figure out whether she's a Darkfriend or not. Had she done so and Galina affirmed it, the bitch would've been even worse off.

Yes, Elayne is dumb.

Dreadlords is gender-neutral AFAIK so it can apply to both men and women.

@grant: a lot of writers aren't very good at writing fighting or war scenes either, so they try to stay away from directly writing them and instead using exposition :evil:
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
I always got the feeling that the Way of the Leaf is an ideal to be strived for, but one unlikely to be realistic anytime soon.



Anyway. Today I will be starting tGS.

Seconds after opening the book, I can tell it was written by somebody else; the prologue is a measly 37 pages long. Trivial.

On the blurb, only two characters are mentioned; I can only surmise that Perrin, Mat and Elayne will not feature prominantly in this book.

Maybe 10-15 chapters between them?

Which is a shame, because Moraine needs rescuing.

Alright, before I begin, I will say that, thorugh my own carelessness, I have been spoiled on some things.

Thankfully, only bits and pieces, and nothing concrete.

For example, the Seanchen attack the WT, Cadsuane fucks up badly driving Rand more cookoo than before, Rand and Lews have a heart to heart on Dragonmount and a couple more things besides.

What I don't know are the specifics. I don't even know if those are GS or TOM events, though I'm toward them all being GS events.

And well, even if you've been spoiled, the specifics are still fun to read about.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
grant said:
Of course at least some of what he does seems less genius and more basic common sense, but unfortunately writers can only have their characters show enough intelligence to be recognized by the average reader.
I dunno. The <a href='http://mangafox.me/manga/berserk/c288/10.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>naval battle</a> between the Prince's ship and the three pirate ships in Berserk was pretty good in that regard, at least to me. At the very least, it showed the pirates making the sort of mistake an inexperienced officer might make, and then the professional military guy taking the less-obvious option, with an explanation why it was correct.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
The Gathering Storm is rock-em-sock-em awesome for most of the book, especially Egwene's arc. Enjoy.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
TGS, the prolouge;

well, that started out with a surprisingly emotional "The end is nigh" feeling. A Borderland farmer is experiencing weirdness, and a friend of his comes along and explains that he can feel a storm coming, one that must be fought off.

The guy agrees and starts prepping his wife and farmhands.

Then we switch to the sul'dam that Rand captured when he lost his hand, and she's basically pissing herself, not just because she is facing the Dragon Reborn, but because from what she can see, he's hard as steel.

Oh, and the Arad Domon general, Ituralde, is still giving the Seanchen much grief. Not sure if I'm happy about that, but you know what; I hope this guy doesn't die. Not just because I like him, but because he seems much too useful to kill.

We also have Greandael, being rewarded for not fucking up, and to serve as a taste of the rewards that could be hers if she prevents Rand from pacifying Arad Domon, her lands.

Oh, and Damandred has an army... I'm gonna have to guess he's in Shara. Cause seriously, only places left are Murundy, Far Madding, Shara, or that continent in the south; you know, the one where all the channellers, male and female, are nutters.

I seriously doubt he's there. Far Madding is not a place I expect a man to go. Time 10 for a man who can channel.

That leaves Murundy - which is actually possible, now that I think upon the fact that Mat's Band have just (apparently) helped unify the place.

Oh, and Moridin is pissed that Semirhage hurt Rand, and failed in capturing him.

And we finish the prolouge with the Prophet's death at the hands of Faile, doing what must be done, and asking her co-conspiristers to keep it secret from Perrin.

So yeah, he died abruptly - not that thats a bad thing, really.


Then we open with Rand, annoyed that nothing is going his way, and that his secret is out, and that Semirhage refuses to budge.

He even snaps outload at Lews Therin, something he's never done before. Oh, and I think its the first mention in the story proper of how the women turned their backs on Lews's plan, though Lews doesn't elaborate beyond that they refuse to help, leaving him with no women to form circles, and adding that they are traitors, and that this is their fault.

I'm kinda in agreement with the madman here. Sure it was reckless, but the womens plan was no better, and they were losing the war.
 

grant

Well-Known Member
I wonder what their reaction was when Lews went through with the alternate plan. Or how he acted. All we really saw was the Pre-War and After-Madness stuff.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
The sad problem of Wheel of Time is if you want to do fanfiction of it you really have to write a lot to match up because the series proper is probably something like 3-4 million words. Yeah...

I was thinking that if I actually had the talent, skill and tenacity to write something 300k words+ for WoT, it'd be like the story Ta'veren, but with even more changes. Change New Spring so Tarna isn't killed right away, but instead lasts a few years longer before the Black Ajah off her. In that time, she should set Siuan up for being a future Amyrlin, but more importantly, get Moiraine to become the Queen of Cairhien.

Queen Moiraine Damodred of Cairhien would be pretty chill.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
Yeh, Lews was probably a gigantic dick about it. I'm not sure if he just sort of snapped, or fell into a type of despair, but whatever he did, he did it secretly.

I do wonder, did the women regret not helping, or did they feel vindicated?

"We told you it wouldn't work" vs "If we'd helped"


-----


Chapter 2 features Egwene, holding her own and realizing something I feel is incredibly wise. Elaida is not her enemy. She shouldn't fight that woman. Her true enemy is more abstract; its the division in the Tower.

To be honest, I don't think I've ever respected Egwene more.


Following that is Aviendha, struggaling to figure out what she is doing wrong, because the Wise Ones keep punishing her for pretty much no reason.

I think its a secret test of character. I'm just not sure what the right answer is.


Next up is a chapter of Gawyn, questioning himself and what he is fighting for.


After that we return to Rand - he's meeting with a Sea Folk emmisary, and he asks her a question about how they deal with male channellers.

It frustrates him that his greatest work, perhaps the one thing he can be most truely proud of in his life to this day; and no one believes it. Men will still die, or be gentled, and be shunned, etc etc, simply because its hard for people to accept a change that massive.

And its heartbreaking. As is Rand's explaination later on about he envies other men, for they have a choice, and he has none.

Then we have Semirhage, completely in control and telling them about all the ways shes tortured men. The bitch.

Next is a brief interlude with Ituralde, which tells us that he very well knows that he can't beat the Seanchen, even if he can bloody them, but that's who he is, and its not like he can stop.

And then we visit Egwene briefly, for more bubble of evil goodness.

Then back to Rand, this time from Nyneave's perspective. Its interesting, in that she is pretty fucking terrified of him, but refuses to be. She's not fcing her fears. She's ignoring them.

I'm not sure I like that, to be honest.

She also needs to lose the "I know better than you" attitude. Seriously. So yeah, Nyneave is back in the HYPOCRITE! mode of her character.

As for Rand. Yeah, he's losing his shit fast. Cadsuane is being a good controlling force. Something I never thought I'd say. Rand's plans for Arad Doman - yeah, about a million things can go wrong. The people uprising etc. But when you fear Grendael might strike at any moment, and the clock is ticking, and the ruling body is in shambles, what the fuck are you to do?
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
seitora said:
The sad problem of Wheel of Time is if you want to do fanfiction of it you really have to write a lot to match up because the series proper is probably something like 3-4 million words. Yeah...

I was thinking that if I actually had the talent, skill and tenacity to write something 300k words+ for WoT, it'd be like the story Ta'veren, but with even more changes. Change New Spring so Tarna isn't killed right away, but instead lasts a few years longer before the Black Ajah off her. In that time, she should set Siuan up for being a future Amyrlin, but more importantly, get Moiraine to become the Queen of Cairhien.

Queen Moiraine Damodred of Cairhien would be pretty chill.
If I was to write a WOT fanfic, the first major change would be RPM leaving the Two Rivers 6-12 months early.

You know, leaving Trollocs and Aes Sedai and more wondering where the fuck they are.


I've read another chapter - Its Suine's POV, mostly focused on the Hall, her tsundere relationship with Bryne, and a meeting with Egwene.

I'm ambivilent about Egwene in the meeting here.

As much as she's cool, she has fully immersed herself in the Aes Sedai mentality of "How dare you!"

Its annoying. She hasn't seen Rand since LOC, and has no fucking idea how much life has been shitting on him.

Egwene has to re-forge the Tower - a hard task to be sure.

Rand is left to bind the entirity of the Westlands to his cause.

On the surface, they are similar.

Deeper down? Not so much.

So while Egwene's digs at Rand are, in my head at least, deserving, and logical, and true, in my heart my immediate reaction is "What the fuck do you know?"
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
But, as you may recall, the Dragon will know 'the Amyrlin's wrath' B) so Egwene may have just fulfilled that
 

grant

Well-Known Member
seitora said:
The sad problem of Wheel of Time is if you want to do fanfiction of it you really have to write a lot to match up because the series proper is probably something like 3-4 million words. Yeah...

I was thinking that if I actually had the talent, skill and tenacity to write something 300k words+ for WoT, it'd be like the story Ta'veren, but with even more changes. Change New Spring so Tarna isn't killed right away, but instead lasts a few years longer before the Black Ajah off her. In that time, she should set Siuan up for being a future Amyrlin, but more importantly, get Moiraine to become the Queen of Cairhien.

Queen Moiraine Damodred of Cairhien would be pretty chill.
The prequel made it pretty clear that the moment Moraine suspected Tarna's replacement's plans for her she decided it would mean massive riots in Cairhien (and that was the least bad possibility). I don't know how what changed between then and when Rand announced he intended it for Elayne. Maybe it was the second Aiel attack, the deaths of the last Cairhien kings or the game-changing nature of Rand's big transnational actions. Or maybe Jordan just forgot about it.
And why exactly would she be grooming Siuan? At the time of her death Siuan was still just a junior Aes Sedai. That's the next generation of Aes Sedai, not who you choose your replacement from.

Best fanfic I've seen for it so far was one where double-balefire at the battle with Semirhage sent Rand mentally back in time. Mostly it was good because he spent his time trying to fix things, only for them to go horribly wrong. Of course it's been left unfinished (by two different writers I think).
 

Belgarion213

Well-Known Member
I remember one fanfic where when Rand busted out of his box at the end of Lord of Chaos he found Min Dead. 'Ape Shit' did not even BEGIN to describe it. I think he traveled to Dragonmount with the giant statue key and basically used it to leach the ENTIRE taint from the One Power and basically used it as a Nuke on Tar Valon or something. Oh and then he basically did what Moiraine said was impossible in book three, using the most powerful sa'angrael ever conceived by man, channeled by the most powerful channeler ever born, he managed to do resurrection...or something close to it (zombie min!)

it was pretty short but I kind of remember that. Wasn't the best fic but it was kind of amusing.

Hmm...another interesting fanfic I read ages ago was 'to the void'. It basically covers Lews Therin from the moment he dies killing his wife to the moment he's reborn as Rand. Apparently when he killed her he soul killed her or something, so is, as you might imagine, almost batshit insane from guilt. Also it kind of covers the start of the 'feud' between The Dragon and The Dark One. (And man the Creator is a DICK). <a href='http://www.dragonlibrary.net/1999/story105.htm' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.dragonlibrary.net/1999/story105.htm</a> for those interested . It's MASSIVELY Au in the cosmology but still...
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
But, as you may recall, the Dragon will know 'the Amyrlin's wrath'? so Egwene may have just fulfilled that
Yeah, still hoping this is at least a meeting of equals; for all I care, Egwene can yell hereslf hoarse at Rand, as long as he defends himself and his actions.

I will rage so hard if she unleashes her fury at him, and he just accepts her as right, and he's sorry, and he's a woolhead, because fuck that, he's accomplished so much, with so many people against him in some way, and so much burden, that anything she says to him will sound as it did in EotW - a haughty woman who knows not of what she speaks.

---------------------

We return with a chapter detailing Perrin's exodus from Malden, and his reailization that he's been so singlemindedly focused on faile that he's neglected his duties to his people, to Rand, and to the World at large.

I hope this leads to more personal growth for him.

The next is Ituralde, knowing he's going to die, but still willing to fight. Until Rand comes and convinces him otherwise.

Its quite an awesome moment, seeing as it joins another of the Great Captains as one of the officail Light Side men. This makes what, 3? 4?

Then Aviendha - Yeah, I'm more certain than ever that this is a Secret Test of Character, and I think I'm getting it, but not entirely sure.

Then we swing by Egwene again - Its this chapter that made me understand grants points on Egwene abit. As great as she is, its still 1) too easy, and 2) I feel as though its cheapening the Aes Sedai abit, how easily thay are swayed.

Then a brief visit to Gawyn, who seems to have finally made up his mind. At freakin last. Now if only he's dissolved of the notion that Rand is a monster.

And we finish for now with Cadsuane, who has shown Sorlea Semirhage, the two of them have discussed what to do with her, and Cadsuane reveals she is keeping a set of the male a'dam, and refers to her attempts to teach Rand as training.

Cadsuane makes some excellent points, not going to lie. I even admire her for it. But its the little things that bother me. I respect her much more in my reread than I did the first time - but she still makes me grind my teeth at times, and I just can't bring myself to like her.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
And he will break the world in turn. Again.

Poetic, no?
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Also, merely 26 days until A Memory of Light releases!
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
Finished TGS.

Rand is (sorta maybe) fixed.

I feel so much better for that.

I probably wont be able to do a proper summary until sunday or maybe even monday.

But I will summarize my thoughts on it.

Hopefully beyond "NO!" "Don't do it Rand!" "That is both cool and not" etc etc.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Personally, I think the whole 'It gives us another chance to love' thing is a cop-out. But whatever.

I would also not have been opposed to Rand opening a Gateway to the start of the Blight and breaking the Choedan Kal by overloading it while blasting as much of the Blight as he could to the ground :snigger:

Also first Rand - Tam interaction since Eye of the World, awesome stuff
 

evilplushie

Well-Known Member
Been re-reading WoT myself. Has anyone else noticed that Sanderson is a fairly melodramatic author? There were quite a few moments during his writing where I went 'real people don't speak like that, or converse like that'
 

grant

Well-Known Member
evilplushie said:
Been re-reading WoT myself. Has anyone else noticed that Sanderson is a fairly melodramatic author? There were quite a few moments during his writing where I went 'real people don't speak like that, or converse like that'
I'm just glad he's moved past his Elantris days.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
seitora said:
Personally, I think the whole 'It gives us another chance to love' thing is a cop-out. But whatever.
Can't say I disagree.

As an aside - TOM chapter 3 - If this is the Foretold Amyrillins anger, I'm good.

If its the next meeting...
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
I thought I had my copy of ToM around still but it's disappeared off to somewhere. All I have is TGS right now :(
 
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