The White Devil of the Moon Chapter 12

#76
ragnarok1337 said:
Dark Knight Gafgar said:
It was crack for a reason, you know.
Crack is bad for your health! But seriously, crack can be okay in small amounts, but there is a time when too much is...well, too much. Crackfics that are either too ridiculous (even for crack) or go on for more than 1 or 2 chapters cease being funny.
Point. Then again, Hitler only appeared in two chapters and was merely referenced in another two. What about the No Time to Explain reference?
 
#77
The way I see it is that bissek really wants to write the senshi fighting nanoha style. Ive seen the SM anime, and to me atleast the fight sequenses feel much much less awesome then nanohas. I dont think i have to go into the reasons why that is. And i think bissek made a very big mistake in not upgunning the senshi regardless of how he thinks they are in canon.

I think he is trying to rush them through nano-training because he wants to write Sailor Nanoha's Sailor Scouts.

Comartemis, bissek is not harming the reputation of the senshi. There have been sufficient posts comenting on the power gap that anyone who cares to find out what other people think about the fic know this. At this point it feels like you are trying spoil the discussion for those of us who enjoy the fic. I like your coments fact wise but the way you say it makes it difficukt for me to enjoy.

Anyway, i think that At this point any awesomeness of the senshi will be tsinted by the fact that they have been trained by nano-pals. If there is to be an attempt to make the fic more even (nit that there is anything inherently wrong with even extreem curbstomp fics) then i agree that rewriting would have to happen.

To me Nanoha and co. is a real type mech. She is the super prototype/newtype mech. Standerd millitary hardware taken to 11. Exslecially in Fates case dodging more importent then blocking due to less defense. Skill not special powers. Her ultimate attack bypasses her lack of power, so its not cheating.

Sailor Moon and the senshi are super types. Their powers come from a lost civilisaion and only they have them. Extra power comes from emotional strength. They can soak a but load of damage. I would write them as MUCH stronger base wise then tsab. Defense instead of evade. Hi power attacks that have less then steller hit rates. Nanoha being SM makes it harder To give credit because he was the finnisher but Hay, challange.

Make them cooler! Jupiter should be able to punch you in the face with a lightning storm. Rei's ofuda are much harder to break then tsab binding because they are powered by actual shinto spirits. Ami might not understand the info that her comp gives her but it should be more info then the tsab can get.

The TSAB was founded on the bones of countless civilisations that in their glory destroyed themselves. It is canon that they do not understand everything they find

But you dont have to take my advice. I dont care.
 

Comartemis

Well-Known Member
#79
condonzack said:
The way I see it is that bissek really wants to write the senshi fighting nanoha style. Ive seen the SM anime, and to me atleast the fight sequenses feel much much less awesome then nanohas. I dont think i have to go into the reasons why that is. And i think bissek made a very big mistake in not upgunning the senshi regardless of how he thinks they are in canon.
If you want awesome Senshi you need to read the manga, wherein you'll find such things as Moon and Chibi-Moon using a combination attack minus their respective silver crystals to blow a small moon out of the sky. And that's just in the R season. You hit the nail on the head when you said they're Super-types, though I doubt you realize just how true that is if you're only familiar with the anime.

If Bissek is really trying to turn the Senshi into "awesome Nanoha-type mages" then he's going about it in just about the worst way possible by stripping them of Usagi (and thus anything resembling camaraderie or The Power of Friendship) and using anime power levels. Much better to pull them in when they're all hardened veterans (and show it), like several seasons in or even post-series.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#80
They aren't hardened veterans. They are survivors. They aren't even warriors.
 
#81
condonzack said:
Comartemis, bissek is not harming the reputation of the senshi. There have been sufficient posts comenting on the power gap that anyone who cares to find out what other people think about the fic know this. At this point it feels like you are trying spoil the discussion for those of us who enjoy the fic. I like your coments fact wise but the way you say it makes it difficukt for me to enjoy.
It's Comartemis. AKA Darth Artemis on Spacebattles. AKA, "That guy who relentlessly flames fics or ideas he doesn't like, while apparently still reading them anyway". He and fanfiction apparently get along like 1930sPulpFan and Glenn Beck.
 

Comartemis

Well-Known Member
#82
They aren't hardened veterans. They are survivors. They aren't even warriors.
They "survived" things that have lunch dates with Cthulhu every Saturday. They survived them into a million pieces at the end of every season. They fought battles against nightmares from beyond creation at least once a week going on five years if you follow the anime and they beat the ever-loving shit out of each and every one of them. You'd better bet your sister's ass they're hardened veterans. You don't survive those kinds of odds on dumb luck.

It's Comartemis. AKA Darth Artemis on Spacebattles. AKA, "That guy who relentlessly flames fics or ideas he doesn't like, while apparently still reading them anyway". He and fanfiction apparently get along like 1930sPulpFan and Glenn Beck.
Better than being the person who thinks that labeling a fic as "crack" somehow excuses it being in hideously poor taste. And I notice you don't say anything that says I'm wrong about my criticisms. You haven't defended bissek's slip-up on the whole "Nanoha doesn't kill people" thing, for instance. Nor for that matter have you addressed any of my other criticisms, instead relying solely on "lol, it's Darth, he's wrong automatically" to do your arguing for you. That kind of debating logic doesn't even work against Dayton and SDB.
 
#83
Did someone just hear something? It sounded like an ass trying to speak. Or perhaps someone trying to speak out of their ass. Either way, I couldn't hear what they just said.
 

Wilder

Well-Known Member
#84
Good description of your own post there Gafgar.

News flash, some people like to make their opinions known. Artemis is just very vocal. So freakin' what of it?
 

bissek

Well-Known Member
#85
Comartemis said:
They aren't hardened veterans. They are survivors. They aren't even warriors.
They "survived" things that have lunch dates with Cthulhu every Saturday. They survived them into a million pieces at the end of every season. They fought battles against nightmares from beyond creation at least once a week going on five years if you follow the anime and they beat the ever-loving shit out of each and every one of them. You'd better bet your sister's ass they're hardened veterans. You don't survive those kinds of odds on dumb luck.

It's Comartemis. AKA Darth Artemis on Spacebattles. AKA, "That guy who relentlessly flames fics or ideas he doesn't like, while apparently still reading them anyway". He and fanfiction apparently get along like 1930sPulpFan and Glenn Beck.
Better than being the person who thinks that labeling a fic as "crack" somehow excuses it being in hideously poor taste. And I notice you don't say anything that says I'm wrong about my criticisms. You haven't defended bissek's slip-up on the whole "Nanoha doesn't kill people" thing, for instance. Nor for that matter have you addressed any of my other criticisms, instead relying solely on "lol, it's Darth, he's wrong automatically" to do your arguing for you. That kind of debating logic doesn't even work against Dayton and SDB.
Which had been explained in the comments in the chapter it happened. Namely, her family was in danger, and she knew that in her present condition, she only had the strength for one shot, so she absolutely had to make it count. She couldn't afford to pull her punches.
 

Comartemis

Well-Known Member
#86
bissek said:
Which had been explained in the comments in the chapter it happened. Namely, her family was in danger, and she knew that in her present condition, she only had the strength for one shot, so she absolutely had to make it count. She couldn't afford to pull her punches.
That is somewhat believable but a DB on stun would also have worked well enough for Fate or Venus to finish him off. I'll let this one go unless I find anything else wrong with it, but you still need to justify everything else you're doing wrong instead of dodging and refusing to answer my questions.
 

WarChild

Well-Known Member
#87
Comartemis said:
WarChild said:
But why treat it as the most important thing in life? Really, it's like shipping.

Seriously, the more I see you harp on this, I am believing this is the only meaning of your life.
That's because it is one of the most important things in fanfiction. It's one of the biggest differences between a good fic and a bad fic.

Firstly, characterization is nothing like shipping, which is completely optional and frequently inappropriate for a number of story types. Squeezing a ship into a fic without tying it into the plot somehow is a very easy way to fuck up an otherwise good series.

Good characterization is essential for all fics. Even Ero-Sennin has good characterization for the characters in BDSM in that he makes it clear right away that he's taking lots of creative liberties with the characters of Usagi and the rest; he deliberately divorces his characters away from the canon characters, and then he makes them internally consistent. This is how you use "bad" characterization properly in a comedy/parody fic.

Bissek's work, on the other hand, is not comedy. When bissek writes Luna being a bitch and jumping to conclusions every five minutes, or when he writes the Senshi acting like thugs to get Fate away from Nanoha it's because he expects us to believe that canon Luna and the canon Senshi would actually act like this under these circumstances. Those of us who've watched Sailor Moon can tell otherwise, and so the fic takes a hit in quality due to the dissonance between what we know and what we're expected to believe. Those who don't watch Sailor Moon don't pick up on this because they don't know the characters as well as we do. This is how you get fanon bullshit like "Pluto the Master Manipulator" or "Evil Tyrant Neo-Queen Serenity". Or in this case, "Trigger Happy Shoot-First-Ask-After-We-Get-Pwned Senshi".

Nanoha has the same problem in a couple of scenes. The part where she vaporized Jadeite during the wedding was a major out-of-character moment for her; Nanoha does not kill her enemies. Ever. Not even Quattro could provoke her into using lethal force after she tortured her daughter half to death in front of her.
I think you're the one dodging the point here.

It's fan fiction.

Not a term paper.

Not a treaty.

Not a scientific endeavor.

Not a manifesto where things are to be taken to heart.

Nothing that will at formost contribute anything productive, much less make an significant impact for the next decade or so.

Really... it's like somebody will literally die if this gets read or something. Or you think this will somehow further the stupidfying of society? Maybe kill brain cells? Oh, I know, cuase the next war or some other tragedy?

And if you succeed in getting bissek to quit writing forever? Oh whoop de do... you want an Nobel for that or something?

Ih short.... when one spends this much time on one story like... one has to wonder if this time could have been spent on something less trival... like Occupy Wall Street?
 

Comartemis

Well-Known Member
#88
And if you succeed in getting bissek to quit writing forever? Oh whoop de do... you want an Nobel for that or something?
You really haven't been paying any attention at all to this discussion, have you? The point of constructive criticism is to help the writer improve, not to say "You suck, stop writing garbage". Now if bissek would admit that his story has problems in need of fixing this would be a lot easier and more constructive than it's turning out to be instead of me smashing his head against a wall trying to get through his thick skull.

Ih short.... when one spends this much time on one story like... one has to wonder if this time could have been spent on something less trival... like Occupy Wall Street?
What do you mean "this much time"? I spend maybe 5-10 minutes a day pestering bissek about this fic and none on days when there's no activity in this thread like there was for the last six days before condonzack's post. It doesn't take me three hours to type up a post or two, y'know.
 

Elvarein

Well-Known Member
#89
Comartemis said:
And if you succeed in getting bissek to quit writing forever? Oh whoop de do... you want an Nobel for that or something?
You really haven't been paying any attention at all to this discussion, have you? The point of constructive criticism is to help the writer improve, not to say "You suck, stop writing garbage". Now if bissek would admit that his story has problems in need of fixing this would be a lot easier and more constructive than it's turning out to be instead of me smashing his head against a wall trying to get through his thick skull.

Ih short.... when one spends this much time on one story like... one has to wonder if this time could have been spent on something less trival... like Occupy Wall Street?
What do you mean "this much time"? I spend maybe 5-10 minutes a day pestering bissek about this fic and none on days when there's no activity in this thread like there was for the last six days before condonzack's post. It doesn't take me three hours to type up a post or two, y'know.
Yes, so all hail the mighty Comartemis who is utterly infailable and whose opinion must be respected in all things. Just becasue he feels his opinion is correct so it must be so.

All that you have said is MERELY your opinion on the story. You are no one important that Bissek has to listen to or anyone else for that matter. What you have said can apply to you: If only Comartemis would admit that his critism is merely his own opinion and not some standard of law that everyone has to obey that we would not need to smash reason through his thick skull.
 

Comartemis

Well-Known Member
#90
Elvarein said:
Yes, so all hail the mighty Comartemis who is utterly infailable and whose opinion must be respected in all things. Just becasue he feels his opinion is correct so it must be so.
Oh go shove your head in a garbage disposal Elvarein. My oh so sacred and perfect opinion as you put it is open to changing if the author will take the time to argue his case. In regards to the Nanoha vs Jadeite thing he brought up a point I'd forgotten about and made a case in his defense that was convincing enough that I had to spend a few minutes trying to find any holes in it, so I dropped the issue.

Now if he would do that for the other points I've brought up, maybe he could convince me that I'm wrong on them as well, but he's not even making an attempt to defend his choices for this fic. He's just burying his head in the sand and ignoring me or trying to redirect me to threads that have been dead for months rather than answer my other criticisms. If I'm really so wrong then tell me why already. Otherwise I'm just going to keep right on buzzing, like a morning alarm that won't go off until you throw it at the wall.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#91
WarChild said:
I think you're the one dodging the point here.

It's fan fiction.
:headbanger:

Have we, at TFF, truly fallen this far? That someone, in response to genuine (albeit harsh) criticisms, has resorted to using this tired old fanfiction.net bullshit excuse?

This is TFF. This is not an archive site like FFN. When you post a story or story idea here, you are inviting people to tear it to shreds, and maybe give you the blueprints for how to put the pieces together in a way that works better.

I'll be honest, I don't like Comartemis. I think he's ten gallons of asshole stuffed into a five-gallon jug. What I do not think, however, is that he is being unhelpful or contributing nothing by saying the things he has said about this fic. His criticisms are legitimate, and the fact that the responses he receives for them are generally along the head-in-sand approach typical of FFN irritates me like you would not believe.

I don't care that this is "just fanfiction". That slack-ass attitude is a recipe for fail, and if you think the quoted excuse above is actually a valid, legitimate defense for an author failing to put their best effort into whatever they're writing, then... Well, I cannot think of a civil way to put it, so I will go with this:

You are a cancerous blight on the entire fanfiction community, and I hope (against reason) that you will somehow grow the decency to excise yourself from it until such time as you wise up.

People who think like this - and worse, those who actually go out and express these thoughts, as seen above - are actively contributing to the lowering of standards of what is considered to be "good fanfic".
Do you understand? You are making fanfiction as a whole shittier every time you attack a critic for offering valid criticism. Fucking stop it.
 

WarChild

Well-Known Member
#92
Ok, that may have been the wrong to say. Just a bit of expression of frustration, party from fear that our critic won't stop at merely being "critical", and actively try kill the things I've been reading, or worse. To me, he seems too emotionally involved. People have done crazy things over less. Am I overly too paranoid?

Maybe I'm the one who's been emotionally involved.
 

Comartemis

Well-Known Member
#93
WarChild said:
Ok, that may have been the wrong to say. Just a bit of expression of frustration, party from fear that our critic won't stop at merely being "critical", and actively try kill the things I've been reading, or worse.á To me, he seems too emotionally involved. People have done crazy things over less. Am I overly too paranoid?

Maybe I'm the one who's been emotionally involved.
Pretty much, yes. :sweat2:

Besides which... "actively kill the things you're reading?" :huh!: What exactly do you expect me to do, sabotage FF.net so you can't read the next chapter? Mail him letter bombs if bissek keeps ignoring me? Setting aside the whole "that's crazy/stupid/insane/etc" point, that would take actual effort on my part, and I'm not so obsessive that I'm willing to spend hours a day trying to sabotage the efforts of one author who stuck a bee in my bonnet. I have better things to do with my time, like writing fanfics of my own. Or playing more Skyrim. Mmmm, Skyrim... :wub:
 

ragnarok1337

Well-Known Member
#94
Comartemis said:
Otherwise I'm just going to keep right on buzzing, like a morning alarm that won't go off until you throw it at the wall.
I'm sure many of us feel like doing that right now. You're taking this WAY too seriously.
 

aaree

Well-Known Member
#95
I haven't been following this fic and I also haven't been following this argument very closely, but I have read enough Ranma/Sailor Moon crossovers to be irritated any time the sailor senshi don't get the credit they deserve. So out of curiosity, if everybody is going to bitch at Comartemis about how wrong he is, what is he wrong about? It seems like anybody that actually knows anything about sailor moon is in agreement that this fic isn't doing it right.

Fanfiction where one series is clearly superior to the other series at everything never makes for good fanfiction. It's why there aren't any decent DBZ crossovers.
 

midorigreen

Well-Known Member
#96
aaree said:
I haven't been following this fic and I also haven't been following this argument very closely, but I have read enough Ranma/Sailor Moon crossovers to be irritated any time the sailor senshi don't get the credit they deserve. So out of curiosity, if everybody is going to bitch at Comartemis about how wrong he is, what is he wrong about? It seems like anybody that actually knows anything about sailor moon is in agreement that this fic isn't doing it right.

Fanfiction where one series is clearly superior to the other series at everything never makes for good fanfiction. It's why there aren't any decent DBZ crossovers.
It also a problem for any Sailor Moon fanfiction as well because in the manga their powerlevels are so high that most other series can't compete with them.
 

aaree

Well-Known Member
#97
midorigreen said:
aaree said:
I haven't been following this fic and I also haven't been following this argument very closely, but I have read enough Ranma/Sailor Moon crossovers to be irritated any time the sailor senshi don't get the credit they deserve. So out of curiosity, if everybody is going to bitch at Comartemis about how wrong he is, what is he wrong about? It seems like anybody that actually knows anything about sailor moon is in agreement that this fic isn't doing it right.

Fanfiction where one series is clearly superior to the other series at everything never makes for good fanfiction. It's why there aren't any decent DBZ crossovers.
It also a problem for any Sailor Moon fanfiction as well because in the manga their powerlevels are so high that most other series can't compete with them.
You'd think so, but I haven't read a single sailor moon fanfic that made the sailor senshi much more powerful than the show it was being crossed over with (other than <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2896968/1/Anything_You_Can_Do' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a> one, but I'm not sure if that counts...). It kind of gives me the feeling the majority of people that write sailor moon crossovers don't actually watch sailor moon.

More importantly, making the sailor senshi weaker to make the crossover work better would be fine, but if you make them so weak they are constantly getting shown up by the other show, that's just as bad.
 

AbyssalDaemon

Well-Known Member
#98
aaree said:
I haven't been following this fic and I also haven't been following this argument very closely, but I have read enough Ranma/Sailor Moon crossovers to be irritated any time the sailor senshi don't get the credit they deserve. So out of curiosity, if everybody is going to bitch at Comartemis about how wrong he is, what is he wrong about? It seems like anybody that actually knows anything about sailor moon is in agreement that this fic isn't doing it right.
Pretty much. It isn't just the power-levels either really; the major problem that I and from what I can see a lot of the other people who've been complaining is the fact that all of the SM characters have been so far blatantly OOC. Both in comparison to what they acted like in canon (either canon at that) but also to what the supposed situation that bissek has said that they had.

Which is the second problem. For all that bissek might given them excuses for why their acting like they are out of story - and we'll ignore the problems that come with the idea that Senshi are supposed to been doing a holding action against the Dark Kingdom without a Sailor Moon - he never really showed or hinted it in story when we where first introduced to the Senshi. Instead he basically forced all of the characters to be OOC, handed them idiot ball to go alongside with the characterization and forced them in one of most heavy manner ways that he could into conflict with the TSAB.

Fanfiction where one series is clearly superior to the other series at everything never makes for good fanfiction. It's why there aren't any decent DBZ crossovers.
Depends on what the story is focusing on. If combat is the main focus of the story then sure but if instead the author is willing to focus more on the character interaction and how the two verses react to one another it can be done fairly well.

midorigreen said:
It also a problem for any Sailor Moon fanfiction as well because in the manga their powerlevels are so high that most other series can't compete with them.
It can be done. The story's focus just needs to be something else then about the two sides suddenly being forced into conflict. Which should possibly be easy enough given the nature of the Sailor Moon universe...

aaree said:
You'd think so, but I haven't read a single sailor moon fanfic that made the sailor senshi much more powerful than the show it was being crossed over with (other than <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2896968/1/Anything_You_Can_Do' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a> one, but I'm not sure if that counts...). It kind of gives me the feeling the majority of people that write sailor moon crossovers don't actually watch sailor moon.
Sadly the fanon version, which seems to be based largely off the godaweful dub and whatever assumption would cast the Sailor Moon characters in the worst light, is pretty much what most people know. And god-forbid that people bother to read/watch a series before writing fanfiction about it. :headbanger:

More importantly, making the sailor senshi weaker to make the crossover work better would be fine, but if you make them so weak they are constantly getting shown up by the other show, that's just as bad.
This. Or even showing the characters as having gained that experience that they should have from their supposed guerrilla conflict against the Dark Kingdom that bissek talked about and how the hell that they got to where they are instead of the cardboard cutouts of the characters that we've been getting so far.

EDIT
ragnarok1337 said:
Comartemis said:
Otherwise I'm just going to keep right on buzzing, like a morning alarm that won't go off until you throw it at the wall.
I'm sure many of us feel like doing that right now. You're taking this WAY too seriously.
The main reason that he's complaining is that so far all this story has been is a mixture of a bashfic on the Sailor Moon characters with some light wanking on the Nanoha side. Combined with the fact that NONE OF THE SAILOR MOON CHARACTERS HAVE BEEN IN CHARACTER SINCE THIS STORY STARTED.

It's reached the point that stories that have the fanon of Akane constantly attempting to beat on Ranma or Ranma suddenly deciding that he wants to be a girl for the rest of his life and have Kuno's children can be considered to be more in character and closer to the actual source material. Or one of those highschool stories that where so popular in the Harry Potter and Naruto fandoms for a while that constantly had Naruto/Harry pairing up with Sasuke/Draco.

....I don't know about Comartemis but I probably wouldn't have minded if bissek had tried to make the entire thing of a parody of all the bad Sailor Moon crossovers or even a crackfic. But instead this is supposed to be a serious crossover which means at least to me that the characters of both sides should be something approaching how they were in whatever series they came from excepting the changes that might have come from the two universes being meshed together so long as they make sense to crossover and author is willing to show early on how it might have changed things.

Which this story so far hasn't done. The characters are so firmly far out of character it isn't funny on the Sailor Moon side most of it being their massive OOCness of their interaction with one another much less the Nanoha characters. And bissek comments out of story don't really work partly because he doesn't seem to show it the actual fic but also because it makes the interaction between the characters even stranger.
 

Seiya

Well-Known Member
#99
AbyssalDaemon said:
aaree said:
You'd think so, but I haven't read a single sailor moon fanfic that made the sailor senshi much more powerful than the show it was being crossed over with (other than <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2896968/1/Anything_You_Can_Do' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a> one, but I'm not sure if that counts...). It kind of gives me the feeling the majority of people that write sailor moon crossovers don't actually watch sailor moon.
Sadly the fanon version, which seems to be based largely off the godaweful dub and whatever assumption would cast the Sailor Moon characters in the worst light, is pretty much what most people know. And god-forbid that people bother to read/watch a series before writing fanfiction about it. :headbanger:
Don't blame the dub. I watched the dub and it at no point made the characters like this. This is just laziness on the author's part when it comes to characterization.

Bissek also keeps cherry picking between canon so badly it hurts. Clearly manga fits his story better and keeps bringing in details from that canon like Serenity's suicide so Nanoha could bitch about it. But then he can't show Nanoha being a million times better then the stupid senshi and he'd actually have to respect the characters.

But the anime which is what Bissek tends to lean on more had the Dark Kingdom when Moon was on the damn team and foiling every plan they had was this close to summoning Metallia anyway to the point she was effecting the sun. Bissek is saying they went to war for a year with the generals. That The senshi apparently have been holding Metallia back a whole year without Moon? They should be the biggest badasses ever since without Usagi stumbling on every single scheme because she was super lucky they had to discover all their plots much faster. They'd nearly have to be psychic to keep Metallia back a damn year. They should have powered up a lot by this point. You can't just say a year passed without explaining this.

Bissek even neutered the generals' abilities. What was stopping Nephrite from using his black crystal from finding the Ginzuishou in a second in the past year? Since you know it took him a second to modify it in the anime canon?
 
Seiya said:
AbyssalDaemon said:
aaree said:
You'd think so, but I haven't read a single sailor moon fanfic that made the sailor senshi much more powerful than the show it was being crossed over with (other than <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2896968/1/Anything_You_Can_Do' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a> one, but I'm not sure if that counts...). It kind of gives me the feeling the majority of people that write sailor moon crossovers don't actually watch sailor moon.
Sadly the fanon version, which seems to be based largely off the godaweful dub and whatever assumption would cast the Sailor Moon characters in the worst light, is pretty much what most people know. And god-forbid that people bother to read/watch a series before writing fanfiction about it. :headbanger:
Don't blame the dub. I watched the dub and it at no point made the characters like this. This is just laziness on the author's part when it comes to characterization.
Point. Though I'd argue that the dub is at least in part responsible for some the more annoying parts of fanon but then again I truly disliked it so I'll admit that I'm not the most impartial person on it.

Bissek also keeps cherry picking between canon so badly it hurts. Clearly manga fits his story better and keeps bringing in details from that canon like Serenity's suicide so Nanoha could bitch about it. But then he can't show Nanoha being a million times better then the stupid senshi and he'd actually have to respect the characters.

But the anime had the Dark Kingdom when Moon was on the damn team and foiling every plan they had was this close to summoning Metallia anyway to the point she was effecting the sun. Bissek is saying they went to war for a year with the generals. That The senshi apparently have been holding Metallia back a whole year without Moon? They should be the biggest badasses ever since without Usagi stumbling on every single scheme because she was super lucky. They should have powered up a lot by this point. You can't just say a year passed without explaining this.
Don't forget how without a Sailor Moon most of the life-force draining that the Dark Kingdom has been doing should either be leaving people in a coma or dead. Most likely most of Japan if not a large swathe East Asia by this point should probably have been declared a red zone by every other military on the planet. Or (my biggest issue) how without Usagi or somebody else to serve as the heart of the team that interactions between the rest of the Senshi, Mamoru, and the cats should all be vastly different.

Minako as Venus is going to be doing her own thing. Mamoru is going to be something of a wild card much like how he was early on in the manga and most likely distrusted by everyone else given how it was Usagi who orignally trusted him. Luna might have found Ami, Rei, and Makato but without Usagi being there to help hold them together in the early days and help them start on the road to dealing with the wide variety of issues that each of them has they're either going have what amounts to a business like relationship when it comes to their duties as a senshi and be largely impersonal with each other in their civilian lives.

Or more likely be far more strongly connected to one another in both their senshi and civilian lives ...which given the already large social issues that they have is going to most likely spiral to a unhealthy level. They're most likely to be the most insular when it comes to everybody else. Doesn't mean that they would refuse to work with others but I can't really see them ever fully trusting anyone outside their little group.
 
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