Va. Tech Massacre

ThreadWeaver

Beware of Dog. Cat not trustworthy either.
#26
I am horrified, but not surprised by the shooting in VA.

As kids grow up in an environment where their parents want sunshine and rainbows and the kids see the stuff on the news (cause bad stuff sells ratings), mental conflicts develop. As they age, more and more bad gets piled on by the media in record time, and the parents get more fanatical in their protection, the kids lose their outlets. In America, the trend is towards larger houses, partly because parents want the kids IN the house where it's safe. Bad idea in the end.

The sad part is that when people are threatened and scared they don't think, just act. Very often that action is very very stupid and pointless, especially if they have no inkling of crisis management.

A major deterrent in the past against crimes is the repercussions. Our justice system is so overtaxed it's not funny. In short, people aren't afraid of going to jail. "It's three hots, a cot, free cable and exercise equipment, what more could a guy want?" is a line I actually heard from a person that went to jail. That alone tells me that the punishment itself isn't a deterrent from committing the crime. ooops.

In other words, we have serious social problems and most are unwilling to grow enough of a spine to make the necessary changes.

Race shouldn't be considered a factor but it is. Because so many are ignorant of other's cultures, they can only rationalize that it might have been a factor of their culture.

Americans as a whole remember Tienamin (sp?) Square in Bejing where the tanks rolled over their own people. That's the image many have of China (Besides the label on all our products that says 'made in China').

I personally don't have anything against race, but merely groups within a race. I for example, have soured to some Somali as the times I have come in contact with them (they seemed to have flooded to the state where I live) they were arrogant and seemed to think that it was okay to *demand* full financial support from the welfare system. But that doesn't mean I dislike blacks in general. Some of the nicest guys I know are black. By the way, I refuse to use 'african american' until I am called a 'caucasion american' instead of 'white'. In other words, not gonna happen.

Each race has their group that makes the rest shake their head in shame. See the Waco, Texas incident for an example (I didn't remember their name as I didn't want to give credence to the group or its activities). But that doesn't prevent society at large from trying to find SOME characteristic (be it valid or not) that will allow them to say "THAT is bad, stay away". See The roundup of all the Japanese in WWII. My father fought on Normandy for the Americans, as an American yet he had German heritage. They didn't round him up and feed him bad Sauerbraten. He was infuriated by what happened but in the same respect understood the rationale. It didn't make it right, but he understood why they would think the way they did. And yes... my father was OLD when I was born. Nothing like playing baseball at the age of 10 with a geriatric. But I digress. Again. And again.

I find that video games can either rile me up or let me vent anger. The first person shooters and fighting games allow me to take frustrations out on inanimate objects safely, while strategy games often rile me up with the horribly unbalanced AIs. Or maybe it's the fact that I suck at them, but still like them.

I myself wonder why no one tried to stop him. Did they, and got shot for it? I know I would have tried, but that's not everybody. I happen to ascribe to the precept of the 'needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.' Most believe in, "Screw you, I'm saving my own ass." in that type of situation. Hearing the stories of WWII from my dad gave me a different perspective I guess.

The oddity of this whole shooting thing is how did this person on an educational visa manage to get a handgun and enough clips, ammo and experience (without being caught) to kill that many people. Obviously he had to get it on the street as no fool in their right mind would try to legally sell a handgun to a non-citizen. Which leads me to wonder if he didn't have the experience by the time her arrived here. THAT would be frightening, especially if he did come from China. While I don't know much about the country I'm pretty sure the govt doesn't encourage the *average* citizen to carry or discharge firearms, which means he may have had military experience. Or... on the other hand he could have found a sand pit somewhere here in the US and practiced. Getting the ammo would have been the interesting part. If anything, Immigration will become even more difficult in the US because of this. "Sorry folks, stay away or you'll be shot at the border, and have a nice day, ya'll!" *sighs*

My most heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of those lost in this tragedy. I pray that something like this doesn't happen ever again, but I fear it's just the front side of the wave, so to speak.
 

Lumias

Well-Known Member
#27
I'm not entirely sure, but I think the guy did buy the gun from a normal gun shop.

Depending on the state and what not, for a handgun all you need is a valid driver's license.
 

SimmyC

Well-Known Member
#28
I seriously doubt that Koreans will suddenly become the target, at least on a wide scale, of attacks. Not saying some ignorant boob will not target Koreans (or even more ignorant, a general Asian person), but IMO, most people are smarter NOT to link the shooter to the race.

What pisses me off about this case is, all of the warning signs about this guy BEFORE he began his shooting spree. Did you know that due to his disturbing writings, his disruptive behavior, the fact that he took pictures of women's legs in the class which caused said women to complain to the police about, that the professors sent him to a school counselors and police? And they were so disturbed that they recommended that he check into a mental institution? And said institution said he was not only a danger to himself, but to others?

So... after presenting all of the questions above...

WHY THE HELL DID SAID INSTITUTION RELEASE HIM?!

And why did the clear case that he was mentally insane allowed to buy a gun?

And WHY was he still going to Virginia Tech?

Unfortunately the last part has an answer. Virginia law states that you can't expel a person, clearly disturbed. I guess the idea was, if someone had a metal disability, like Down Syndrome, than the school shouldn't automatically expel that person simply because he had Down Syndrome. But then, what about someone like the above? :angry: Are we so kind and forgiving that we believed the above person should be allowed to continue schooling, even with so many warning signs of his mental problems? :no:
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#29
He went back to the college because for some reason his return was allowed within the college's nor rules and procedures. He did go through the legal process of buying the guns. A process that's not too uncommon for college students.
 

SimmyC

Well-Known Member
#30
Like I said (and you said), part of that has to do with said law and the college's procedure etc. Despite being a problem student, there was nothing the college could have done without going against said law. Which is just said.

As for the fact that the institution let him go... I can think of one reason, and that he wasn't 'completely' insane. I.e. he knew what he was doing, or going to do. But that didn't stop them from determining he was a threat to himself and others. You'd think that would be enough stop him from being released. Guess not. <_<

As for buying the gun, true. It was legal in the sense that he probably broke no Virginia laws.

Of course, it should be noted, Virginia Tech is a no-gun campus. He wasn't even supposed have a gun on campus. If you're caught with a gun, you're automatically expelled. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Not like he would have cared of course.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#31
Well, one thing's relatively certain - gun control isn't the issue at fault here. The guy was smart. If the law - which already says not to go around killing people - also prevented him from buying a gun legally, I'm sure he'd have little trouble finding a street dealer to sell him one illegally.

I digress. The problem in question here isn't gun control, it's crazy control. Dude was disturbed long before this shit happened, and somebody should've done whatever was necessary to be sure that he was not a threat to society - whether that entails medication, pschotherapy, institutionalization, or outright deportation.

Dammit, the shrinks and teachers gave them fair warning!
:rant:
 

runestar

Well-Known Member
#32
Hindsight is 20/20, I suppose. Give it a few days and the finger pointing will probably start commencing... <_<
 

ThreadWeaver

Beware of Dog. Cat not trustworthy either.
#33
Well, I hope no one points the finger due to race, but some moron, as pointed out, is likely to.

Personally, he should have been deported and his visa revoked the moment he was declared a danger to himself and / or others. Oooooopsie... I am so tired of the "we should fix them and give them a chance" mentality when it comes to people who are a danger to others, especially a person who's only here on a temporary visa. There is a personality profile that was authored by the University of Minnesota called the MMI "The Minnesota Marbles Index". Maybe we should be giving that to all arriving visa holders and immigrants...

The state I live in (the aforementioned Minnesota) doesn't allow handguns to be bought without a full background check and a 5 day wait. We also don't allow a handgun to be carried on person, concealed, in public without a permit. I know, it sounds stupid. Why ban a concealed weapon if no one is going to see you carrying it to enforce the law anyways? I haven't quite worked the rationale out, other than it's there to hopefully scare people out of hiding guns.

The tools of destruction are never at fault. It's always the fool that uses the tool. As a stretch, are we going to ban computers because some fool wrote a virus that caused millions of dollars of damage? Not likely. It's another situation of us not willing to solve the problem, but instead slapping a band-aid on the gaping wound.

The primary reason the US constitution has the right to bear arms is so that we can defend ourselves against our own possibly oppressive government. It was there to keep the government in line, to keep the power in the hands of the people. It's not working out too well, but that was the intent, and a valuable one at that.

The fact that his mental state was well known and they did very little infuriates me. Everything may have been done within the law, but apparently it takes dozens dead to point out gaping holes in said law. *sighs*
 

runestar

Well-Known Member
#34
I wasn't referring to racial discrimination in particular.
IMO, heads are definitely going to roll over this one. Once the "mourning period" has elapsed, anger and thoughts of revenge will probably start sinking in. The people will want to know just who or what was responsible, and demand a scapegoat at least. There is no point blaming the Korean student anymore - he is already dead, and might possibly be painted as some sort of victim of a cruel world, thus invoking sympathy or even pity. They will want a live sacrificial lamb. "The real cause of all this" as one might proclaim.

Already, some are suggesting that the rich people were partly to blame to driving him up the wall(according to a news snippet I caught). Anything from school security to medical efficacy to immigration laws are likely going to come under fire.

The shirk-fest is only just beginning... <_<
 

knight_of_ni

Well-Known Member
#35
No, people better not be putting him out as some victim. He was a sick and twisted individual, who decided to kill people; that is all there is to it. A scapegoat would be nice, but guess what, we will NEVER know what issues actually led to this.

We know he had issues before hand, but he was released. Was it their fault, no, they believed that he was sane enough to live in society, they could have done more certainly, counciling and drugs might have helped with his issues. However, they made a decision based on facts they had at the time, which turned out to be a bad decision, hindsight 20/20.

Was it violence in media, or stress from school. Media is exposed to so many people but this happens with so few, that no real correlation can be drawn. Stress; he already was twisted, and stress can only push someone so far, and based off of their dispostion. I dispise those who search for scapegoats, the person who did this is dead, at this point there is no one to point the fingers at who is still is above ground. If they do, then they are meerly using this event for their own agenda, which makes them look so much worse in my eyes. This event was horrible, and people died, do not desecrate their graves by using them in political machinations.
 
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