You fail!

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#1
All rightie, I've now gotten frightfully tired of the non-critique critique posts that some people seem incapable of NOT whipping out every flonqing time somebody posts anything that they don't agree with.

I figured that the simple rules I put together and the emphasis on playing nice would be enough to curb these sort of things. But since it so obviously isn't, here's a bit of clarification since some people obviously seem to think that the first rule of this forum doesn't apply to them.

Starting from the first of december, "You fail!" or "This idea fails!"-posts that doesn't bother to explain the *WHY* of why it/he/she fails, will be grounds for being banned.

One warning and if it happens again, you're out.

So if you feel some sort of weird immature need to go for the "You fail!"-route, you'd better make bloody sure that you also supply reasons why it fails and preferably also suggestions on how to correct the level of fail.

I won't ban anyone if it happens again during november, but if I see someone going at it during november, I'll consider that as the warning and come december, that person will be just one "You fail!" from banning.

So if you don't have anything more constructive then "You fail" to say, then don't fucking post a response!
 

SimmyC

Well-Known Member
#2
Heh. I admit to being one of the "You Fail" people. However, they have been far and few between. And recently, if I do any of those "You Fail" stuff, I at least try to explain why it wouldn't work.

Still, I do agree it has come to this sadly. As much as I like /b/ism, too much of it and well, a forum could suffer. I mean, there is a reason why certain things at 4chan should stay in 4chan. <_<
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#3
Hawk, could you also make a modification to the rules to add this in as well? Makes for better searching in case someone just checks the rules and not the only miscellaneous announcement topics. Something like rules "4a", maybe with a copy'n'paste of this post or just a link.

Makes it easier for newbies and older members alike to follow the rules.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#4
Well, I thought 1 and 3 would suffice, but I guess I could add a little bit about "you fail" specifically.


1:
Play nice with the other members ( on the forums ). That means no insults, condesending comments or whatever in the posts. Constructive critisism ( I don't like this because xxxxxx, it would be better if you xxxxx. ) is not only allowed, but encouraged. Whatever you get up to in PM's or private e-mails is none of my concern, but you'd better play nice in the posts.

3:
Seriously consider if your post actually adds anything to the discussion at hand before making it. If it does not, well, then why would you post it in the first place? Pointless and/or irrelevant comments/statements belong in the Rants, nowhere else.
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#5
Yes, but that you're saying that you'll ban people for not following this specific example of it made me think that it deserved its own spot. As in, if it's to the point of unacceptable behavior, and people aren't getting it from the first rules, a bit of emphasis should be made on it.

So, seeing as you did, thanks.
 
#6
I've made a couple of those posts, but if they're no longer allowed, I'll stop. Warning acknowledged.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#7
It has never been allowed and it has always been a one warning, then banning offence, as it goes against the rules of this forum.

I just haven't been all that strict on enforcing it before now.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#8
Okay, those kind of posts are disallowed. I've been known to use a macro or meme here and there, but I generally try to keep it nice (or at least constructively mean).

My question now is, are the same kind of "WIN" posts an offense as well? Or is it limited to the flames?

Also, image macros. Okay, don't do it, or keep it to a minimum?

Thanks!
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#9
This is just my opinion, and ze Hawklord's may differ, but I don't see what the problem with image macros could be, as long as we also add a few words to exlain why we used it, in case it's in a non-joking criticizing context.

Of course, if the image macro is used as a joke, it should be fine.

And no, the 'they slow down the boards' excuse doesn't work. I have a VERY shitty 56k dialup which works at 2kbps, tops, most of the time, and the only topic that gives me problems besides the Sigs and Avatars one is Izzy's image-heavy topic where he flaunts his recently acquired treasures. If I, who have the shittiest connection of the whole forum, have no trouble with it, then I highly doubt anyone ELSE can claim they have trouble with it. -_-
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#10
GenocideHeart said:
This is just my opinion, and ze Hawklord's may differ, but I don't see what the problem with image macros could be, as long as we also add a few words to exlain why we used it, in case it's in a non-joking criticizing context.

Of course, if the image macro is used as a joke, it should be fine.

And no, the 'they slow down the boards' excuse doesn't work. I have a VERY shitty 56k dialup which works at 2kbps, tops, most of the time, and the only topic that gives me problems besides the Sigs and Avatars one is Izzy's image-heavy topic where he flaunts his recently acquired treasures. If I, who have the shittiest connection of the whole forum, have no trouble with it, then I highly doubt anyone ELSE can claim they have trouble with it. -_-
But they tend to slow reading ability, when reading around them. As I read some, then have to scroll for the next bit of text, and then even more past more pictures or sigs.

Also, I have a DSL connection. Yet even with that if I jump to the bottom of a thread as soon as the words appear, but before the pictures appear, then the text bounces as the images pop in and the frames adjust.
 

exar

Well-Known Member
#11
so turn off image loading on this site. or go back to basics and use a text web browser like lynx. that's really fast and free of bouncing. this isn't FF.net, it's a forum. it's geared toward interactive conversation, not passive reading.

while they don't do much to advance the conversation, WIN or MOAR posts are at the least some feedback to authors. as we all know, knowing that there are people who want to read your story makes it a lot easier to sit down and write. obviously, a more detailed critique is great, and kind of the idea on a writer's forum, but most of us will take whatever encouragement we can get, especially from another author.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#12
Macros and moar posts are okay.

None of those has so far caused anyone to feel so disgusted with fanfiction that they'd decided to leave it be. ... At least not as far as I know.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#13
Hawk said:
Macros and moar posts are okay.

None of those has so far caused anyone to feel so disgusted with fanfiction that they'd decided to leave it be. ... At least not as far as I know.
Well, nobody has posted goatse yet. :snigger:

But goatse is more a 'guh, I hate life' reaction than a 'I hate fanfiction' one. :rofl:

Anyway, good to see this was cleared up. Just one thing, Hawk. What if an idea is so supremely stupid, you simply can't find the words to criticize it properly?

I'm not a believer of the 'if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all', because people tend to take silence as approval more often than not, and there are some ideas that I really would rather not see turned into a fic.

And in those cases, constructive criticism is impossible - the idea simply sucks too much to criticize in anything but a 'This fails so much' fashion.

When this happens, what do we do? Do we churn out some nonsense that has little to do with the idea itself just to fill up the post? Because frankly, and with all due respect to your will, there are some ideas that just deserve to be killed with fire.

That said, I'll now drop the subject.
 

runestar

Well-Known Member
#14
What if an idea is so supremely stupid, you simply can't find the words to criticize it properly?
Well, if you can't find a way, I guess you will just have to make one then... ;)

Just curious, how old or recent is this whole "You fail phenomenon"? I can't believe that people couldn't find a way to criticise properly prior to this... :huh:

To be fair, every argument should be supported by appropriate evidence, else it becomes a fallacy regardless of how true it may be.... B)
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#15
runestar said:
What if an idea is so supremely stupid, you simply can't find the words to criticize it properly?
Well, if you can't find a way, I guess you will just have to make one then... ;)

Just curious, how old or recent is this whole "You fail phenomenon"? I can't believe that people couldn't find a way to criticise properly prior to this... :huh:

To be fair, every argument should be supported by appropriate evidence, else it becomes a fallacy regardless of how true it may be.... B)
I suppose you have a point. But let's assume that someone proposes something like:

"Ranma is locked in girl form, then turned in a Snorlax. he must now travel the Multiverse using his awesome pokemon powers to save the day by defeating the evil Teletubbies andtheir Lord Barney. Oh, and THIS ISN'T A CRACKFIC IDEA!!!ONE".

The above example may be a bit extreme, but I think it gets the point across. Sometimes, people propose some plots that are so incredibly RETARDED, you just can't properly explain just how much failure they are made of.

Note, the above may work well as a crackfic, but the idea is that the imaginary person proposing it intends to make it in a SERIOUS fic. So yeah... while the above may never happen god forbid such an abomination from ever seeing the light of day), unfortunately some ideas I0ve seen on TFF are almost as bad, and just as hard to criticize without simply saying 'No. Go away'.

There are limits to a person's patience, and some of the posts that were made in this forum really stretch that patience thin. Like, say, all of 007/Botmaster's posts.
 

runestar

Well-Known Member
#16
To be fair, you got your message across with so apt an example... -_-

However, I feel that this still isn't sufficient justification to break out the flamethrowers...

Maybe rather than hurl verbal abuse, perhaps try more creative means of getting your message across?

There is the headbanging emoticon, you could type something like "Holds XXX in a firm armlock and proceeds to lead him to the nearest mental institute" or something like that...rather than "Your idea sucks. I hate it and I have now come to hate you by association as well".
"Ranma is locked in girl form, then turned in a Snorlax. he must now travel the Multiverse using his awesome pokemon powers to save the day by defeating the evil Teletubbies andtheir Lord Barney. Oh, and THIS ISN'T A CRACKFIC IDEA!!!ONE".
I would probably still give said person a chance to explain and defend his stand on why he thinks it would make for a viable plot(assuming he was serious and did not mean what he posted in jest), much as I concede that the urge to lurch at his throat is there...

unfortunately some ideas I0ve seen on TFF are almost as bad, and just as hard to criticize without simply saying 'No. Go away'.
However, "Go away" seems a far cry from "you fail!", IMO...
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#17
Well, there is always the option to keep a rant on why certain things are bad in stock. I made a small one on SI's and why they aren't a good thing on another thread that I may just repost if other SI ideas come along.
 
#18
maybe Hawk should make one or two of the long time trusted members global mods to enforece the rules here so if there is a problem it is quickly taken care of when they arise.

just a suggestion there as that might help take care of any members who feel the need to flame others here as flaming other people is just stupid and childish.
 

Lord Raa

Exporter of Juice Tins
#19
I understand why you are making this declaration, Hawk.

In the future, I will try to post reasons why I don't think certain ideas will work.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#20
Bluezone777 said:
maybe Hawk should make one or two of the long time trusted members global mods to enforece the rules here so if there is a problem it is quickly taken care of when they arise.

just a suggestion there as that might help take care of any members who feel the need to flame others here as flaming other people is just stupid and childish.
I agree that flaming is stupid and childish.

However, there are times when it is the only viable option, because some people are just too dense (or just plain stubborn) to understand anything that's not abuse.

The alternative, of course, is to ignore, but sadly I've found that ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away almost never works on 'teh Interbutt'.
 

Lumias

Well-Known Member
#21
Maybe instead of just "You Fail!"

Something like this (If this is still flaming let me know) Using your Ranma female snorlax example.

Sorry to point this out to you, but this idea completely sucks, The plot is crap these characters have absolutly no basis for being together, being trapped in a girl form by itself is ridiculously overused, so minus points right there.

Ranma in the pokemon universe doesn't fit as they take place on two entirely different realms.

Anything using Barney or Teletubbies in a serious manner is a horrible idea no one wants to read about a large purple dinosaur and teletubbies trying to take over the world. In a parody or spam fic this could possibly be done. With what your doing is just stupid, there is no way it could be pulled into a workable serious story without everything being AU and OOC and no progression for the OOC.

If this pisses you off sorry, but certain ideas like this one are to out there to ever work in the way you want it too.
 

Lord Raa

Exporter of Juice Tins
#22
You make a good point, Lumias, however we sometimes we must strike while the iron is hot and that doesn't always leave time to formulate an articulate response.

And that leaves us with "You Fail!" as the most suitable response.
 

Lumias

Well-Known Member
#23
True, I often don't reply to things as much as I should because I can't think of anything useful to say good or bad and it certainly seems that bad authors take silence as positive feedback.

Of course on the opposite end I wonder if good author's take lack of feedback as a bad sign
 

Moshulel

Well-Known Member
#24
The alternative, of course, is to ignore, but sadly I've found that ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away almost never works on 'teh Interbutt'.
I fully agree with the above statement.

So no more "You fail!" posts? Well then, we'll just have to respect this rule, besides how hard can it be to find one or two reasons for such a post?

Granted most of the time, you just want to throw something when you read such a post...
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#25
Moshulel said:
Granted most of the time, you just want to throw something when you read such a post...
I still have those planetbuster bombs that I reserve for crapfics on FF.Net, you know... :snigger:
 
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