Nasuverse Your strongest form...

[tungsten]

Ok...First I should point out that as yet I've only watched the anime. I've read through the wiki article, so I know the basic story of the rest of the game, but for all intents and purposes, this idea takes place in the Fate storyline.

Now that's over...How about if Shirou knew less mythology?

They're all fighting Berserker. Archer has already laid doun his life for them, and Saber is back to full health, thanks to a transfer of his magic circuit to her.

Archer, before he died, gave Shirou the same advice he did normally: "The thing you image is always your strongest form..." and so on.

Problem is, that now Shirou begins to understand the nature of his powers, and is ready to use them, and needs to use them because of the massive Grecian hero bearing down on him, he cant think of anything to trace.

For whatever reason, the image of caliburn stolen from Saber's memories doesn;t come to him. Maybe he never had that vision, or maybe it just didn't affect him that much...either way, he has to trace something but has no idea what.

We know Archer could trace the noble phantasms of all the heroes he encountered. He was just that badass.

And we know that Shirou may one day become that badass, but that day is not today. Apart from anything else, the number of noble phantasms he's seen and understands enough to image and trace is very few. And mythology was never his thing, so he can't remember any legendary weapons that he could trace off hand.

He's desperate...Saber is about to use Excalibur, which might kill her, and even if she doesn't, Tohsaka is one squeeze away from being paste. Finally his mind clicks onto the only track that might let him out of this situation, by giving him something to trace...

Turns out Shirou's something of an Otaku...



The basis of this idea is, rather than tracing various noble phantasms belonging to mythological and historical heroes, he will instead trace various weapons and devices from anime, manga, cartoons, comic books,...etc...



I got this idea when the wiki site said one of the weapons Shirou (or Archer, I forget which) could trace was one that was created by the game designers for one of their other games. 'The jeweled swod of something' or something like that...


So what would he trace...I had a few ideas.

-Sword of Thundara (thundercats)
-Sword of power (He-man)
-Zangetsu (Bleach)
-Samehade (Naruto)
-Web shooters, or venom suit (Spiderman)
-monowire (hellsing)
-Ultima Weapon, with various materia attached (FF7)
-Gunblade (FF8)
-Gundam Wing Zero (Gundam Wing)


...get the picture?

 

[ttestagr]

Errr, not really possible. Way beyond the limits of tracing. Shirou has to have actually seen the real thing. Even with Caliburn he was looking at Saber's memory of the sword, seeing the real thing through her.


At the point you do this, you basically give Shirou a badly thought out deus ex machina.

 

[tungsten]

Firstly, I should say I never intended for this to be a serious fic. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but I thought it was obvious. Emiya Shirou with the sword of thundara just screams crackfic to me. I assumed it would to anyone else too.

Secondly, when fighting Gilgamesh, Shirou managed to trace Avalon without ever seeing it. He just imaged the most perfect defense he could think of, and his connectin to avalon did the rest. You have to figure that he has at least some knowledge of his own powers by that point, and wouldn't try to do the impossible, but he was still trying to trace an object he had never seen. Certainly, he had no idea he'd end up tracing Avalon.

And if he didn't have avalon in him, then what? He's already imaged an impenetrable shield, and poured his power into it, and he gets nothing? Doesn't seem right to me.

Granted, whatever result he could get - maybe a shield with unusual defensive capacity - would be no match for Gilgamesh's attack, and the series would pretty much end there.

But he should still get something, I feel.

So if he did have an image, even if it was the image of something off the tv, or a comic book, would he really have no luck whatsoever in creating something?

I'm not saying it wouldn't have flaws, but getting nothing whatsoever seems odd, especially given that he'd have a very clear image of it's forms and powers - something he never had for Caliburn or Kansho & Byakuya in canon.

Finally, isn't everything Shirou does pretty much beyond the limits of tracing? Isnt that why everyone's so shocked at what he can do? He should never be able to create stuff like Caliburn in the first place...given that he can, it's a fair guess that the traditional limits of tracing don't apply to him.





I was basing all of this off what Archer said to him. He basically told Shirou to have a clear image, and make sure it was an image of the strongest item he could imagine - one capable of defeating his enemy.

He never mentioned the limits of this new type of tracing only they can do, but given that he modified some noble phantasms himself - making them into arrows, etc... - sticking to just what you've seen may not be neccessary.



Like I said, this isn't supposed to be serious. I just liked the idea of Emiya Shirou, who wants to be a protector of justice, being a big fan of superhero comics and the like.

 

[shout27]

givin that argument i'd recommend that the older the visual (ie NES + Atari), the more flaws will come up, even in the finished product. the better the graphics/detail the less obvious/fewer the flaws (FF7:ACs Buster Sword would probably have at most 1 or 2 flaws he could fix with a second tracing).

His best bet against Berserker or Gilgamesh would probably be to create an Economizer (FF6) and a Ultima Blade w/ Materia (FF7).

 

[GenocideHeart]

His best bet against Berserker would be to create either a Crissaegrim (which would get rid of Berserker's 12 'lives' in about as many seconds, if even that), or the very broken Caladbolg (Everything Berserker does is a physical attack, and to put it bluntly, Caladbolg with its Evade & Counter gives 100% evasion to any and all physical attacks).

If Berserker could use Nine Lives, it'd be another thing, but as he is, Caladbolg completely screws him over something fierce.

 

[Epsilon]

That would make for a cool fic to be honest...

 

[Mechatrill]

...

Unlimited Ripoff Works?

 

[shout27]

Gilgamesh :crazy:
Heracles :huh!:
Holy Grail :help:
as Shinji proceeds to grant wishes to himself through the use of various wish-granting weapons and artifacts.

 

[Fatuous One]

Secondly, when fighting Gilgamesh, Shirou managed to trace Avalon without ever seeing it. He just imaged the most perfect defense he could think of, and his connectin to avalon did the rest. You have to figure that he has at least some knowledge of his own powers by that point, and wouldn't try to do the impossible, but he was still trying to trace an object he had never seen. Certainly, he had no idea he'd end up tracing Avalon.

And if he didn't have avalon in him, then what? He's already imaged an impenetrable shield, and poured his power into it, and he gets nothing? Doesn't seem right to me.

Granted, whatever result he could get - maybe a shield with unusual defensive capacity - would be no match for Gilgamesh's attack, and the series would pretty much end there.

But he should still get something, I feel.

So if he did have an image, even if it was the image of something off the tv, or a comic book, would he really have no luck whatsoever in creating something?

I'm not saying it wouldn't have flaws, but getting nothing whatsoever seems odd, especially given that he'd have a very clear image of it's forms and powers - something he never had for Caliburn or Kansho & Byakuya in canon.

Finally, isn't everything Shirou does pretty much beyond the limits of tracing? Isnt that why everyone's so shocked at what he can do? He should never be able to create stuff like Caliburn in the first place...given that he can, it's a fair guess that the traditional limits of tracing don't apply to him.

Since you're saying this fic isn't serious, I won't try to say that any of this applies to the idea, but I just thought I'd go through an FYI:

The ONLY reason Shirou was able to trace Avalon was that... there was no other weapon he knew BETTER than that scabbard. He didn't have an exact image, no, but the thing has been inside him for almost his entire life. He could get no better blueprint than that. Secondly, the only other reason is that the REAL wielder of Avalon, Saber (i.e., the master of that Noble Phantasm) was nearby at the same time. Over time, the blueprints he has imaged in his head are going to fade, and without Saber, he'd never be able to trace a copy that good anyway. So it was a one-time thing (two thing, technically, but whatever), basically.

If he didn't have Avalon, UBW would have grabbed the next best thing that was recorded in it. Which, given that he hasn't seen many shield armaments, would probably be something really, really weak.

Technically, you're right, in that he might be able to trace something off the TV he saw. However... that weapon would be flimsy, like a normal Graduation Air item, magical fluff without any real substance. Why? Because even if he's an Otaku on the highest level and knows EVERYTHING that's possible about the weapon, he could never know, or there would never be ENOUGH knowledge to truly grasp and make something. Take a look at this:

FuyukiWiki:

Materialized projection through the reenactment (or understanding and tracing) of creation ideology, base core, composite materials, design technique, possession experience, and accumulation of years. Not the physical recreation of just a sword, but its soul itself, in other words.

If he were geeky enough, he could get a few of these needed things, but several he could not:

It is utterly impossible for him to get the last two (possession experience, and accumulation of years) without actually having physically seen the weapon.

If the weapon is not made out of material 'of this world', then there's no way for UBW (and thus, Shirou's tracing) to copy it. It'd just be like another Ea.

In other words, tracing something that's just imaginery isn't possible for even UBW. Just because Shirou surpasses the limits of Graduation Air, doesn't mean his abilities are so broken that he can just imagine something up and create it.


But, of course, since this idea isn't serious, you obviously can ignore stuff like this. I just figured I'd point it out since you went to the trouble of explaining your thinking on the subject, I felt I should point out WHY that doesn't work like that in the Nasuverse, to the best of my abilities, anyway.





Oh, and:

 

[tungsten]

Thanks, that does help, although I'd still like to see this written.

None of that s really explained in the anime, and wikipedia is only a little more helpful.

A friend just gave me a clean copy of the fate storyline, so if I ever manage to get it all set up, I might go through it myself, to see what I can see.

 

[Fatuous One]

For technical details, FuyukiWiki is the best source you'll find in English about the Nasuverse.

Fate is a good route for an introduction, but the finer points of certain things are left a mystery until later routes.


Oh, and for additional amusement:

 

[Ray]

O_O!

The awesomeness of that scan cannot possibly be comprehended by mere mortal minds such as ours!

What doujinshi is it from, F1? I must have it!

 

[Mereo Flere]

I'd have to say that my favorite parody of UBW was "Unlimited Saber Works."

Don't have the doujin on hand, sadly.

 

[Fatuous One]

O_O!

The awesomeness of that scan cannot possibly be comprehended by mere mortal minds such as ours!

What doujinshi is it from, F1? I must have it!

The page is from "Bad Trip Night" by Mix-ism, but only that page has been translated to my knowledge. I don't have a link to a download right now, since rapidsearch is down, and I'm not sure where I moved my copy.

I'd have to say that my favorite parody of UBW was "Unlimited Saber Works."

Don't have the doujin on hand, sadly.

Unlimited Saber World was awesome. ^^

It was part of Type-Moon Complex 4... which is mostly up over here.