Nasuverse You're trapped in FRO!

I'm still noodling on the details re:Numbers/Element(s)/Origin on a hypothetical [Me in FRO] but I'd figured that I should post a few things: a funny observation that I had at work that also leads into a question.

So the notion is that I would 110% be a [Retired Player], mostly on the basis of Screw Kayaba and, via transitive property, Screw Playing SAO. However on having the rug pulled out underneath me my first instinct would eventually be to unknowingly mirror Ilya and attempt to build a [Mechanical Berserker] (Now in Church flavor???) as a bodyguard rather than learn How to Fight. And I thought it was just a funny coincidence, but that lead me to a question: how possible is this?

Like, I'm more familiar with F/SN the story than I am with Nasuverse as a mechanical Universe? So the thought was that any sort of [Steam/Gearwork] would be in support of minimizing like...I don't want to have to magic every joint? So have a Mystic Code/Familiar Brain In A Jar (something crystal a la Halo? Like a  Musicbox with teeth?) capable of seeing/feeling/using whatever weapons. Oh! I had another thought: would it be possible to supplant the upkeep cost for a non-organic familiar (or any familiar) by using a [Only Mostly Muggle  Engine] and have the energy output linked to a [Energy-to-Prana] Mystic Code? Is it even possible to do Energy-to-Prana?
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
Creating a familiar to fight for you is actually pretty orthodox. I haven't really gotten into it, but I've shown the edges of it: by the time Elvengrad gets firmly established as the "Main Player City", there's a pretty big culture of Rear Liners and Mid Liners that deal with familiars. (I've hinted that Keita from the Black Cats is pretty plugged into that).

So something like animating a suit of armor as an Armor Golem is definitely possible.

There's a Mid Liner Soloer named Dr. Skull who creates undead warriors (equipped with good gear) to do his fighting for him, which is in the end functionally similar. Familiars created from corpses naturally have a lot more autonomy than familiars created from inanimate objects.

If it's creating Prana, then Saber had that Dragon Trait that could generate a lot of od. If it's "energy => prana" then I dunno if it's canon enough but Franekstein's Monster (a Berserker from Fate/Apocropha) had an ability called "Galvanism" that allowed it to convert electricity into prana. That's... really high level.

Probably intermediate and much easier to accomplish would be installing Gems as intermediate batteries, so that a Familiar could have functionally a larger prana reserve. (Setting them up to recharge by pulling Mana out of the atmosphere would probably be pretty tough and not as productive as directly refilling them with your od).



PlotVitalAlchemist said:
Any thoughts on the concept of Al'Qazandir imprinting the 'concept' of a nerve circuit into some part of her body, essentially building a pseudo-pseudocrest which automates some parts of temp. circuit production?
Alternatively, producing nerve circuits of pseudo-indefinite duration at very high levels?
Too powerful and too stable... except for someone who had a Rare Element like [Nerves], that's my first reaction.

This would be too difficult for Argo so I've basically abandoned it, but creating a Nerve external to the body and converting that to a Circuit would allow you to get around a lot of the downsides and have some really unnatural upsides (like making it a gross hybrid of a Circuit and a Magic Circle) that would start to do some crazy stuff.
 
daniel_gudman said:
Creating a familiar to fight for you is actually pretty orthodox. I haven't really gotten into it, but I've shown the edges of it: by the time Elvengrad gets firmly established as the "Main Player City", there's a pretty big culture of Rear Liners and Mid Liners that deal with familiars. (I've hinted that Keita from the Black Cats is pretty plugged into that).

So something like animating a suit of armor as an Armor Golem is definitely possible.

There's a Mid Liner Soloer named Dr. Skull who creates undead warriors (equipped with good gear) to do his fighting for him, which is in the end functionally similar. Familiars created from corpses naturally have a lot more autonomy than familiars created from inanimate objects.

If it's creating Prana, then Saber had that Dragon Trait that could generate a lot of od. If it's "energy => prana" then I dunno if it's canon enough but Franekstein's Monster (a Berserker from Fate/Apocropha) had an ability called "Galvanism" that allowed it to convert electricity into prana. That's... really high level.

Probably intermediate and much easier to accomplish would be installing Gems as intermediate batteries, so that a Familiar could have functionally a larger prana reserve. (Setting them up to recharge by pulling Mana out of the atmosphere would probably be pretty tough and not as productive as directly refilling them with your od).



PlotVitalAlchemist said:
Any thoughts on the concept of Al'Qazandir imprinting the 'concept' of a nerve circuit into some part of her body, essentially building a pseudo-pseudocrest which automates some parts of temp. circuit production?
Alternatively, producing nerve circuits of pseudo-indefinite duration at very high levels?
Too powerful and too stable... except for someone who had a Rare Element like [Nerves], that's my first reaction.

This would be too difficult for Argo so I've basically abandoned it, but creating a Nerve external to the body and converting that to a Circuit would allow you to get around a lot of the downsides and have some really unnatural upsides (like making it a gross hybrid of a Circuit and a Magic Circle) that would start to do some crazy stuff.
Well, creating external nerves sounds like a natural step for AQ, since elemental magic includes "producing your element".
One thought I had was her sword being made as a carrier for the concept of 'nerve', rather than as a weapon that bears being stabbed into someone - an athame that happens to be a shikomizue.

...such external nerves would also make interesting components for her private mystic codes.
 
waffliesinyoface said:
Figured I might as well jump on the bandwagon because hey, why not.

[Character Details]...
Felt like adding more stuff to this, because I was bored, and fleshing out OCs is fun.

Additional Spells/Equipment:

Shield - unnamed. A small shield not much bigger than a buckler. The metal has been polished enough that it'll reflect light. Mainly used to parry, rather than block.
[Redirected Blast] - [Specialized Reinforcement] for her shield. Reinforces the [Reflective Properties] of the shield, to allow it to reflect Spells and Curses. 
[Magic Resistance] - Due to the nature of her [Prism] element, has better magic resistance than most players - as long as she's circulating prana before she gets hit, it's possible for spells to pass through her. Has normal level of magic resistance when attempting to scrub a curse from her system after the fact. 
[Bounded Field] - no special name because it's not complete. Attempting to give her a "security camera" sort of feedback by reflecting the light inside the area back to her. Has a hard time getting it to work right - it either doesn't work, causes a level of disorientation that makes her want to vomit, or causes her too see things as though she's got compound eyes. 

Interactions with other players: (specifically, the ones in the BSM)

In general: Joins pick-up groups rather than stick with a specific group of people. When forcibly recruited by Ilya for having a Rare Element, joins without too much fuss - social awkwardness and a life of introversion means she folds easily to demands, and Ilya has a rather overwhelming personality, to say the least. Plus, bunking in a [Skull Fortress] is cheaper and fancier than paying for a hotel room every week.
Ilya: Occasionally asks for help with developing spells. Eventually learns that Ilya is much more likely to grant favors/magecraft help as long as you address her with either "-sama" or "-shishou." 
Shirou: Doesn't interact too often because she can't think of much they have in common. (Note: In the unlikely event of him ever removing his shirt anywhere within her line of sight, she would most likely ogle him shamelessly. Because abs.) 
Kirito: Would attempt to befriend due to shared Social Awkwardness, love of dumb/video-game inspired jokes, (ex: Kirito's recurring gag of "Talking like a B-grade voice actor") and other shared interests.
Asuna: Finds her nice, but doesn't have too much in common with her. Would join her if invited for a [Girls' Night Out]. Grateful that she's willing to reign in Ilya's general insanity. When she learns of Asuna's high-level [Cooking] skill, tries to convince her to make cookies and other sweets, because "Not having to think about calories is one of the best parts of this game."
Silica: Finds her adorable. Thinks most of her pets are somewhat terrifying up close. Overcome with the urge to pat her head when she wears her [Cat Ear Headband].
Kuradeel: Thinks his idolization of Ilya is kinda creepy, and tends not to interact with him that outside of grinding/clearing. Doesn't mind partying up with him mainly because he's good at Tanking, and she tends to play as Ranged DPS.
Leviathan: Occasionally hangs out with him because both of them are still kind of "Mid-liners who got dragged up to the Front-lines" and are still getting used to things.
 
waffliesinyoface said:
waffliesinyoface said:
Figured I might as well jump on the bandwagon because hey, why not.

[Character Details]...
Felt like adding more stuff to this, because I was bored, and fleshing out OCs is fun.

Additional Spells/Equipment:

Shield - unnamed. A small shield not much bigger than a buckler. The metal has been polished enough that it'll reflect light. Mainly used to parry, rather than block.
[Redirected Blast] - [Specialized Reinforcement] for her shield. Reinforces the [Reflective Properties] of the shield, to allow it to reflect Spells and Curses. 
[Magic Resistance] - Due to the nature of her [Prism] element, has better magic resistance than most players - as long as she's circulating prana before she gets hit, it's possible for spells to pass through her. Has normal level of magic resistance when attempting to scrub a curse from her system after the fact. 
[Bounded Field] - no special name because it's not complete. Attempting to give her a "security camera" sort of feedback by reflecting the light inside the area back to her. Has a hard time getting it to work right - it either doesn't work, causes a level of disorientation that makes her want to vomit, or causes her too see things as though she's got compound eyes. 

Interactions with other players: (specifically, the ones in the BSM)

In general: Joins pick-up groups rather than stick with a specific group of people. When forcibly recruited by Ilya for having a Rare Element, joins without too much fuss - social awkwardness and a life of introversion means she folds easily to demands, and Ilya has a rather overwhelming personality, to say the least. Plus, bunking in a [Skull Fortress] is cheaper and fancier than paying for a hotel room every week.
Ilya: Occasionally asks for help with developing spells. Eventually learns that Ilya is much more likely to grant favors/magecraft help as long as you address her with either "-sama" or "-shishou." 
Shirou: Doesn't interact too often because she can't think of much they have in common. (Note: In the unlikely event of him ever removing his shirt anywhere within her line of sight, she would most likely ogle him shamelessly. Because abs.) 
Kirito: Would attempt to befriend due to shared Social Awkwardness, love of dumb/video-game inspired jokes, (ex: Kirito's recurring gag of "Talking like a B-grade voice actor") and other shared interests.
Asuna: Finds her nice, but doesn't have too much in common with her. Would join her if invited for a [Girls' Night Out]. Grateful that she's willing to reign in Ilya's general insanity. When she learns of Asuna's high-level [Cooking] skill, tries to convince her to make cookies and other sweets, because "Not having to think about calories is one of the best parts of this game."
Silica: Finds her adorable. Thinks most of her pets are somewhat terrifying up close. Overcome with the urge to pat her head when she wears her [Cat Ear Headband].
Kuradeel: Thinks his idolization of Ilya is kinda creepy, and tends not to interact with him that outside of grinding/clearing. Doesn't mind partying up with him mainly because he's good at Tanking, and she tends to play as Ranged DPS.
Leviathan: Occasionally hangs out with him because both of them are still kind of "Mid-liners who got dragged up to the Front-lines" and are still getting used to things.
Ooh, I should do that.
In general: Doesn't really talk to people randomly. Starts involving herself in pickup groups once she becomes able to act on the midline rather than rear line. Her quiet nature means she doesn't socialize much. Goes along with becoming Ilya's pokemon, because False Janitor is in the BSM, and is the teacher she's grateful to.
Ilya: They have no common ground, and she doesn't have the [Weird Proclivities] to deal with a bossy loli regularly.
Shirou: Respects him as a teacher, might consider him a bit of a friend. Tries to deflect "is an AI" or "is a collaborator" accusations against him, because she knew him at least peripherally from going to Homurahara Highschool.
Kirito: Although they share some interests, they've never spoken in depth.
Asuna: Respects her sanity, envies her versatility. Doesn't like her hair.
Silica: Cute, but too young.
Kuradeel: She's fine with not speaking to him much.
Leviathan: There's some camaraderie here, since she's climbing up from rear line via the BSM, while he climbed from midline, and also because they were both vastly limited in their magecraft for some time.
Argo: Beloved sempai. Introduced her to Shirou. Is her type.

And finally, another spell:
Fugu: A spell which applies a "paralysis" curse to the general area it strikes, with the potential of full body paralysis, damage over time, or outright death via brain shutdown depending on where it's placed, due to potentially simulating the cessation of nerve signals which control vital organs. Far more effective and efficient than it should be for the level - even for a Rare Element spell. This is because it works by enforcing [Silence] on [Nerves], rendering them incapable of sending anything through their synapses and thus preventing any instructions or messages from being sent through the area. She doesn't understand that nuance of why it's so strong and hard to wash away until Origin determination is discovered.

Edit: I suppose another spell which represents her perfectly would be one which renders you deaf-mute for it's duration by shutting off very particular nerves: enforcing [Silence] /through/ [Nerves]
 

Tyrantviewer

Well-Known Member
Recently I have been reading World of Cultivation a particularly good example of a cultivation story

I found it when a crossover I read lambasted cultivation stories- essentially they are xainxia stories- similar to wuxia like crouching tiger hidden dragon- but with more supernatual elements- like the difference between kenichi the mightiest disciple and dragon ball. Cultivation stories focus on the spiritual growth of people- as in the growth of spiritual power- related to taoist ideas and chinese stories about immortals in a cultivation story people pursue power through spiritual training-mystical power ups and meditation- like many anime protagonists but literally everyone is doing it- from what I read the majority of such stories curently are on sites that promote volume over quality with writier compensation so the majority of these stories drag on like the worst parts of dragonball z repeating the cycle of new enemy/realm- weak to strong growth- beat the enemy and ascend.

I have only been reading the one (it is very long) and it takes place in a mystical land with chinese culture- but all human effort revolves around cultivation- even those who aren't pursuing it seriously learn a little, and dedicate themselves to business that support and profit off it- in World of Cultivation the MC starts off trying to master farming spells to make a living growing grain with spiritual energy.

As happens with many stories I pictured what sort of character I would have in that setting- and I realized what i thought up could work here- one of the less popular areas of cultivation in the setting are the 5 elements earth metal water wood and fire (that might just be due to the local area the story started in) but I like the idea of a charater focusing on them- especially because in the eastern system they have interesting interactions a circle of which ones reinforce teh other, earth->metal->water->wood->fire->earth, and which ones control each other earth->water->fire->metal->wood->earth, and I liked the concept of mystical/martial healer.

Upon further research I found that each element is also associated with an organ(a yin association) a viscera (yang association) a sense organ, a body tissue- and more abstract things- I had the idea of someone focusing elemental energies through and on these parts of the body, to improve themselves- and to improve/heal others- and to use the elements to boost and guide each other

All of this is possible for a eastern average one- I can see it now- I would start off uneasy because in that situation I wouldn't have all of this info- even if I was an average one- and would desperately search out all available info on the eastern elements, upon hearing fluff mentioning the aformentioned body associations I would focus on what would essentially be extremely speciallized and focused reinforcement- slowly increasing the the complexity of how many elements were used at a time along with how precisely they were focused and how the energies would effect and hopefully boost each other. This would have a fairly long time for improvement as the benefit of precisly enhaceing the appropriate body part/tissue would lag behind the game's rendering of those parts before that it would just be themed buffs- such as a metal buff (associated with the skin and hair as a tissue) letting skin act like armor.

Solo he would use his buffs for a martial arts build (having paid argo for the right info after finding his best spells were personal bodily enhancement) In a party this would be a buff specialist and probably a healer-especially as realism improves and his research into the interaction with the minutia of the body with the elements would become more thorough and relevant.

I like the idea of such an obvious westerner like me being saddled with a set of elements he barely understands at first and ending up like the sterotypical old master type character

as a side note for those interested in some of the element stuff here is some of the sites i found (just rough info for inspiration)

http://www.tcmworld.org/what-is-tcm/five-elements/
http://www.orientalmedicine.com/five-element

As another aside that metal armor skin sound like a perfect spell for argo to look into- not turning her skin to metal but enhancing it with metal energy- especially as a less crazy way to follow in her teacher's footsteps of being made of swords, steely skin vs ribs of steel

final asside I wonder how the merdians mentiond on that second site and the pathways in the World of cultivation compare to circuts
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
Given BSM's focus on unique characters, I wonder how each of us would deal with unique elements.   There are probably a bunch of interesting ways you could utilize them.   Bored, so whipped up a short list of potential elements.  Tried to choose a broad spectrum of them, trying to get some of the "cool" one as well as stranger or more unorthodox elements.  Will probably try to create a character profile/setup for each of these when I have more time, but feel free to add on more unique elements.  Getting them from someone else might lead to a more interesting character creations because I'll have to think from scratch.

[Theft]
[Peace]
[Dragon]
[Time]
[Sleep]
[Beginnings]
[History]
[Song]
[Surrender]
[Joy]
[Sacrifice]
[Food]
 

spilll

Well-Known Member
For an element like [Food] you could start out doing simple stuff like using [reinforcement] to increase nutrition or taste of meals or [altercation] to add different flavors. The more advance way is to use alchemy to concoct potion-like smoothies that can have special effect like curing poisoning. There is some bases for this since Sella made alcohol that can make people talk like animals in F/HA.  

Enchant or place a charm for good fortune or protection. It could even possible stitch and fuse fruit together to make a chimera version of the Rainbow fruit from Toriko or use meat to make some turkey-roast beef-salmon monstrosity. Although that player would definitely get strong-armed by Illya  into being the guild (her) personal chef.

Now [Sacrifice] that one is gonna be darker I've seen in this represented a few time in the spinoffs. There's two character in F/AP that use sacrifices one practices a kind of black magic that involves ritualistic slaughter that required a certain mind set of being able to bottle up all you feelings and not to get lost to the slaughter. The other is simply to kill others to strengthen spells.

Since Kayaba wants players to have a positive experience with magecraft theses are out. So instead it could be used as self sacrifice like cut your palm with a blade before they use any spells as a kind of aria or the more pain from either circuits or injury the stronger the spell gets but the self abuse/cutter parallels might be too strong so lets take it down a notch.

Instead of self-harm carry around a trinket your fond of so you can build up history with it. Once you have gotten attached destroy it to boast your spell.  In that way it will be some what similar to Rin's gemcraft.

[Peace] [Surrender] and [Joy] seem like they would be pretty useful for hypnosis or altering others personalities. If these can shade magecraft like Kuradeels [Surrender] can be used as a sort of persuade command. [Joy] and [Peace] meanwhile has synergy with [cure] or using [reinforcement] on people can raise moral.

[History] could be use with [Structural Grasp] to have vivid visions of the past. Another use is to use [Douse] in areas you have been before or find people you know.

Since Saber had such a large mana reserves because of her dragon trait whoever ended up with [Dragon] hit the Jackpot in my opinion. They could put together draconian transformation whenever they use [reinforcement] or [altercation] to whip up some wings. Since they can turn into a dragon and dragons have strong ties to breathing fire that could shoot fireballs from there mouths . They could also create dragons to act as familiars like Kuradeel.
 
zerohour said:
Given BSM's focus on unique characters, I wonder how each of us would deal with unique elements.   There are probably a bunch of interesting ways you could utilize them.   Bored, so whipped up a short list of potential elements.  Tried to choose a broad spectrum of them, trying to get some of the "cool" one as well as stranger or more unorthodox elements.  Will probably try to create a character profile/setup for each of these when I have more time, but feel free to add on more unique elements.  Getting them from someone else might lead to a more interesting character creations because I'll have to think from scratch.

[Theft]
[Peace]
[Dragon]
[Time]
[Sleep]
[Beginnings]
[History]
[Song]
[Surrender]
[Joy]
[Sacrifice]
[Food]
I believe Daniel Gudman's policy is that highly conceptual things like "theft" and "surrender" are suitable as origins, but less so as elements.
Elements are considered to be more physically concrete things.
 
spilll said:
For an element like [Food] you could start out doing simple stuff like using [reinforcement] to increase nutrition or taste of meals or [altercation] to add different flavors. The more advance way is to use alchemy to concoct potion-like smoothies that can have special effect like curing poisoning. There is some bases for this since Sella made alcohol that can make people talk like animals in F/HA.  
Obviously the best usage for a [Food] element would be to do something like add [Sandwich] to a sword.
 

spilll

Well-Known Member
waffliesinyoface said:
spilll said:
For an element like [Food] you could start out doing simple stuff like using [reinforcement] to increase nutrition or taste of meals or [altercation] to add different flavors. The more advance way is to use alchemy to concoct potion-like smoothies that can have special effect like curing poisoning. There is some bases for this since Sella made alcohol that can make people talk like animals in F/HA.  
Obviously the best usage for a [Food] element would be to do something like add [Sandwich] to a sword.
Ah the lost sixth magic Swordwich of course how could I have missed it.
 
Welp, I was fucking around with the rolling rules and stumbled into a character with the following statline:
64 circuits, 50 prana per (3200 units of prana), Eastern Average One

Clearly the compensating factor is that they've got about 200 units of od to use, and can't gather mana for whatever reason.
They need to chug 'mana potions' if they want to fill their circuits up.

Although the capacity of their circuits to do work is over three times Rin's, they have access to less than half of her od...which she can already exhaust in half of a (time unit of od conversion), and without access to the Greater Source.

Either way, they aren't a character I'd consider writing anything about.
 

Tyrantviewer

Well-Known Member
Me again, I ended up rolling up a new character after my browser crashed and I actually rolled a rare element. Which put me in a bind

My original Idea for a rare element was blood, which danny has now used (and I am eager to see what you do there danny) so I don't want to just to that again. But since I am re-reading the story I just remembered a line- Ilya wanted to make maids and butlers the official uniform of her guild so I decided to try and make a character that wouldn't mind being a butler. My first thought was imitating walter dornez from hellsing but the threads are PoH's thing and the rare element is a way for me to do something different. I wanted something with a stealth use so I could do the thing where the servant is jsut there when you call them to everyone's surprise. the first idea I had was the sound element, because of it's obvious use in detection (sonar) and in stealth, and combat (vibro blades, destructive resonance etc) but it didn't seem stealthy enough so I though about the [Shadow] or [Darkness] element, which could be used for stealth but then what else is it good for?

It would seem like a cop out to have shadows be solid like so many fictional darkness manipulators (jacki estacado, the shade, pride) but I wanted to do more with that element than just blend into the shadows or blind someone, then I though about hexi's shadow pin.

Hexi gets around the limits by using it on objects he puts through an enemy, but wouldn't it be very compatable with the shadow element? I think that is where my character would start, then go for imitating the nara clan from naruto and using his own shadow to create the connection, followed by tryingto manipulate more than just paralyze, with his end goal being something like their shadow stiching.

The rational behind it would be advancing from pinning a shadow to stop what is casting it-> to moving a shadow to move what is casting it (like Dr. Facilier's shadow from the princess and the frog, or what gekko moria did to oars when he rode in him like a mecha) and finally-> having a shadow interact with the physical (being a sort of reverse shadow puppets where you don't have to use thier shadow to effect them but using the connection between casting a shadow and being cast to let the shadow exert force)

Maybe the last stage there is a stretch and my character would only be able to affect things by proxy like the aformentioned doctor's shadow, but with more control due to his element.

Other ideas would be exploring omyodo (where shadow pining comes from I think) for similar ways to leverage his element, my next thought was trying to create familiars. He would start with shikigami like hexi's girlfriend (I can never spell her name right) and try to move on to creating them out of shadows (again like doc facilier's)

It would go like this; standard Shikgami to explore their utility-> trying to get the manifestation to happen (shikigami were used to summon or create minions, see negima, or think yugioh where the card manifests the monster)/ try mixing his shadow element with shikigami (trying to get them to progect or "cast" a shadowlike solid)-> expand on which ever method worked best to either use shikigami as a vector for his shadow puppeting, use them to maintain the solidity of shadow minions or co-op the means of creating them as a way to "cast" shadows he can then bind as familiars, or all three

Other ideas include some sort of shadow sense ( in one book I read a shadow creature could use shadows as a vectors for it's senses, not jsut by hiding in that shadow but remotely, but it had to know which one to pay attention to for it to be useful) maybe using shadows as a vector for structural grasp starting with his shadow and expanding into his own means of battlefield awareness

AS a side note has anyone use thier element for sensory spells yet, even jsut a basic "detect element" would be useful, or is that an unspoken part of the telekinesis variants that they can "feel" the available element to manipulate.

could you merge shadow manipulation with reinforcement- equating gaps with shadows, can you reinforce something immaterial? since element is a variable that exists but doesn't matter in reinforcement could you incorporate that somehow? will my character be able to reinforce something's susceptability to be manipulated via shadows or ability to cast shadows?

The most basic thing my character would do would find a way to see through darkness and then coat himself in shadows, looking like a silhouette (like how hexi uses his mask but as a means to practice his element/ work with stealth spells). moving on his stealth abilities would start with manipulating and blending into shadows (cameleon like effect in shadowy areas?) with him hoping to eventually be able to merge with the shadows. In practical terms his next step would be litterally shadowing people and monsters, starting with cobbling together some stealth method like trying to get his prana to blend in with the environment he would try to blend it with his shadow, with shadows in general and eventually with the shadows of others-> this would probably start as a cooperative method with a party where he essentially uses other party memebers as mystical and actual cover to let him get sneak attacks in. Eventually he would discover the shadow pinning or get picked up by Ilya

To go back to the butler thing I see my character trying out a lot of the mundane skills, at first in passing, then as a way to practice magecraft (using his roundabout telekinesis via shadows for mundane tasks to grind the skill)- combined with his stealth specialty, how much he admires Ilya/ wants to look after such a young looking persons despite their power, inspiration from fictional badass butlers (walter dornez, Max from cats don't dance, and butler from artimis fowl) and likeing the idea of trolling people with teh servant appearing out of nowhere cliche.

so this character's development goes:
clueless noob-> very cautious stealthy soloer-> ambush dps in a party-> ambush dps and hindering debuffs in a party (exploring with shadow pinning)-> getting picked up by Ilya and hearing the butler joke-> grinds/expands his skills and spells with the guild's guidance and advice-> starts acting like the head butler of thier hq using shadowy minions (see shikigami ideas earlier) dressed as servants and litterally appearing out of Illya's shadow to do her bidding

I see this character trying to mirror the ninja's in stealth, maybe even going to them for help in how to better serve Illya (I see him getting along with them in their sort of support someone they admire from the shadows playstyle) and I think Illya would allow that if it let her show off that just one of her guildmates can compare with an entire guild serving Diabel, or at least she will be willing to support him to get quality over quantity compared to them (ironic since the ninja skill he would be most suited for would be something like shadow clones)

So that is the end goal- a stealth oriented character that focuses on surprise, roundabout manipulation via his element and a litteraly shadowplay of minions, acting as a butler as a rp concept to pursue.
 

spilll

Well-Known Member
Wow Tyrantviewer between this and [Blood] you really think these things through. The Butler thing is also a neat angle to take but just to clarify do you mean his shadow can move/move things independently from him?
 

Tyrantviewer

Well-Known Member
Using shadows to move things is one of the stereotypical things you think of with shadow or darkeness powers- in many portrayals they are like a green latern ring's constructs only with their own weakness to light or something like that.

Nasuverse magic isn't like that- there may be things like Sakura's imaginary numbers that looks like shadows and can effect thinks like it is solid, but atually making shadows solid or able to interact with things would take dedicated magecraft.

My Idea is that after making his own element based improvements to shadow pinning he would try to make things move with that sort of magical conection not just hold them in place- Like the Nara clan in naruto, their jutsu go, paralyze people after you connect your shadow to theirs-> make them mirror you actions while your shadows are connected-> make parts of your shadow solid to attack them while one of the previous techniques have them helpless. My character would try for something similar, using the omyodo techniques to explore the [Sympathy] aspect of magecraft to let his element effect the real world, his magic potential is limited to support in combat otherwise.

So yes one technique he would try to create is to effect things by effecting their shadows, maybe have his shadow mirroring his sword move but his the enemies shadow and thus hurt them even if he is too far away (using a more basic aspect of shadow element use to move his shadow into position reguardless of lighting) or moving objects by moving their shadows, essential revers shadow pupetry.

My characters best chance for real combat power is exploring shikigami and creating shadow based familiars, otherwise he is really most suited for support, hindering foes and such, or curses like hex has persued.
 

Tyrantviewer

Well-Known Member
spilll said:
Wow Tyrantviewer between this and [Blood] you really think these things through. The Butler thing is also a neat angle to take but just to clarify do you mean his shadow can move/move things independently from him?
Sorry my other reply ran away from me, in short he would aim to do things like Dr. Faciler or Gekko moria, by reverse engineering the shadow pin technique into a way for him to use shadows to affect material things.

Ideas for how to use this would be boosting himself like how hanzo uses wind to speed himself up or move in midair- shadow puppet yourself to give your blows more force or push you out of the way of a blow.

As to the butler thing, I like the character type of the powerful or competant one in a lower position to help their boss, like Walter in hellsing, watching it the first time it is a shock when you see the old man turn people to chunky salsa effortlessly and then turn around and continue being the most helpful person to Integra ever.

I also like the idea of using whatever familar or the aforementioned psuedo telekinesis I would develop to act as a servant, along with any stealth skills, I think Ilya would to "See I am so awesome my butler is basically a one man army of ghosts" or "yes we use magic you can barely see or understand for grunt work, so what"

This is partly from musings from Familiar of zero, like what if Lousie got someone not only perfectllly willing to be her servant, but perfectly competant, imagine others seeing the butler turn around and take down monsters with silverware or something and then go back to serving his master tea.
 

spilll

Well-Known Member
Thanks for clearing that up for me Tyrantviewer.
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
It's things like this that make me think that Ilya's Guild has more potential than any of the others.  Rare elements are probably unlikely to join the Front Line because it takes so much effort to reach basic competence, but once they get up to snuff, their specialties allow them to outshine the more common elements, as long as they stay within that area of competence.

Plus, since the other elements are common, they'll tend to stick to what works instead of innovating.  You're less likely to get something completely off the wall from them, but for Rare Elementas, that's pretty much the only option, because they don't have any guidelines on what they should be doing.  Granted, since they're all new to magic, there's a lot more innovation than you would get from your typical mage, but there's not much point in reinventing the wheel again and again, you know?
 
So using the Dice System I got: Eastern Average One with 533 Prana Units (41 Circuits and 13 Units each). So I'm some sort of Nega-Rin.

As for what I'd do in FRO if stuck there...
I'd prioritize my own life above everything else. I'd not venture out of the city if it was not required or I could absolutely guarantee survival. I'd likely be a rear liner, getting out of being a Retired Player by since I'd focus entirely on the Magic System and probably being a merchant to get funding. My focus would be on constructing an Elixir of Immortality and various potions or spells to survive my own death or heal my body.

Given the death game I don't think I'd join any guild or form my own out of paranoia that someone might backstab me to get my potion, but I'd likely work with the major guilds or hire players to farm for me in exchange for great potions or healing services. I'd probably seen as really creepy and be forced further into isolation.

In all likelihood the isolation will get to me, especially combined with the fear of death and I'd start "Human" experimentation using NPCs and mobs to determine affects of the more volatile potions. I might even make subtle offers to more... open players to see if they can bring back the corpses other players by giving them some sort of spell to preserve the body after the player's death to prevent the loss of resources.

Eventually I don't think my morality will be able to remain and I'll be turning myself into the Chinese equivalent of a dead apostle. At that point I don't think I'd care if others died so long as I survive.

Assuming that I make any friends instead: It'd probably be fairly similar but I don't think I'd jump off the deep end from paranoia and no one around to curb the darker moments.

TL;RD Potion Merchant that' secretly evil
 
A nega rin, but with half of the actual circuit capacity.
Rin's thing is a circuit capacity of 1000, with an /od/ capacity of just 500.
In other words, without drawing on mana or her gemstones, if she were running at full blast on all circuits...she'd drain all of her superfluous stamina/life energy reserves in half of one [time unit] of conversion.
 

Tyrantviewer

Well-Known Member
Master of Squirrel-Fu said:
So using the Dice System I got: Eastern Average One with 533 Prana Units (41 Circuits and 13 Units each). So I'm some sort of Nega-Rin.



TL;RD Potion Merchant that' secretly evil
Check out one of my earlier posts musing on an eastern average one and check out World of Cultivation or similar stories, you could find bits on crafting and medicine making using the eastern elements

An important thing to know is that in traditional chinese medicine each of the 5 eastern elements were associated with an organ (a yin organ and a yang organ) a type of tissue, and a sense organ and that is not even geting into the way certain diseases were associated with certain meridians and elements-

The point being that the 5 eastern elements have huge potential synergy with medicine or affecting the body, google them to see how they boost and hinder each other as well as the other things they are associated with such as certain sounds and weather,

All of this makes me disapointed Nasu didn't explore a character with similar talents in retrospect
 

Tyrantviewer

Well-Known Member
While I am here I had more ideas for the character I am calling [Jeeves] unless anyone has a suggestion for something better, ideally something associated with shadows but not overwelming power, I want to highlight his role as one that follows and supports from hiding or odd angles, and just calling him [Shadow] or [Shade] is lame.

so other ideas for what he would do in response to replies in the other tread- buy glasses, to experiment with light and shadow, and reinforcing how an object casts shadows, after mystic codes are a thing he would try to get them enchanted, either with some sort of perception enhancement or somethingn like how hexi had an eye drawn on paper that he held to his eye to look through a skikigami.

He would be constantly covered in darkness, first using concealing clothing like cloaks and hoods to gather shadows that he would use with his stealth magecraft, which I am going to characterize as a kind of camo optimized for low light, later on he looks more like a silloette, with maybe his outfit visible (while working as a butler the butler outfit is visible but it looks like jsut a shadow underneath, any shikigami he uses as helpers/butlers would look the same) and he would have advanced his stealth, both in the fact that he would be practically invisible in shadows, and in that like poh's ether shroud he would pick up a few other stealth tricks, for things that his invis/camo wouldn't fool, with his main trick being hiding in a player's shadow, channeling his power through their shadow to hide his own/ basically hiding any magic signiture behind theirs, he works well with Ilya in this, and I think she would enjoy someone litterally working best in her shadow.

For offense he would use shadow pining to ambush at first, later evolving to trip or push mobs or mess with thier magic (channel prana through their shadow into them just long enough to mess up thier spells) and using curses and debuffs like hexi but using the shadow connection to target instead of sacrificing equipment, basically compared to hexi, he is better at hindering enemies but doesn't deal as much damage, and relies on stealth and distraction for melee.

Once he gets the hang of shikigami- he would focus on integrating his element with the projection, so instead of a lens that turns channeled prana into a minion it is an tool for casting a solid shadow, he would birdlike ones for scouting (using either the aformentioned glasses or a shape made out of shadow for the receiveing eye, or possibly adapting his camo to use a shadow like a black and white display screen, good enough for mapping) and harrieing foes, but shadows wouldn't be suitable for big and strong shikigami, so his main use would be human sized ones for support and combo attacks, especially if he gets them to look enough like him or vice versa to be able to confuse the mobs and set up more sneak atacks (maybe in the late game he could use specialied ones or a connection with someones shadow or illusions to make body double for other players). Potentially but not really keeping with the theme, if daniel has shikigami able to bind things to summon he would uses a mob's shadow to bind it as a minion, or in keeping with the theme, he might have one or two heavy hitters that use the shadow of something strong as an element of their creation and end model (shadow knights, shadow golems?) Overall his shikigami would be more fragile compared to other's of the same quality, but more agile and flexible.

As for mundane skills he would try to play up the butler role, either by hiring someone to tailor or cook, or learn enough himself, maybe using his dopple shikigami to grind the skills by proxy when he can or at least help.

For equipment he would focus on knives and throwing picks, as an ambusher, using his shadows to push and pull on them once he had the magecraft (reinforce their ability to be affected like hexi reinforced something as a tool for curses?) As a butler he would eventually have a set of throwing knives that evoke the look of silver ware and be enchanted to suit him, or at least he would aim for that, shirou might have something better but he would want to be able to have that sort of astetic at some point even if they weren't his main weapon.

As for his relationships

Like kuradeel he worked with a number of regular pick up groups, but had few friends, as a part of BSM he is quiet and likes them even if it isn't mutual

He respects asuna and kirito and might become friends but not close ones, with kirito he might enjoy examining the various spells and other minutia of the world like kirito geeks out about sometimes.

Silica he would feel mixed about, she is cute and adorable but he wouldn't want to be to creepy, he might strike up some familiarity by talking about her familiars as they slowly become more familiar

Hexi he would respect as someone that his his senior in their style of magecraft and in working with Ilya, since they would meet after zolgen, it would be akward especially if [Jeeves] realizes how using shikigami and similar remind him of his friends, maybe like the black cats and kirito hexi could find some peace by working on that magecraft with someone new or at least enjoy the insights he gained from his friends might help someone else.

for Leviathan they might get along as former mid liners, but more as friendly coworkers, as they would help each other in their new jobs approaching the front line.

Rosalia I can see working well together if they can figure out some combos with their elements, they could get paired off a lot and work off each other as she is someone that plays up attention to her for her gain and he takes advantage of being overlooked, depending on how he sees her relationship with Ilya that migh sour or sweeten the deal (if he thinks her deal with her former guilld helps ilya he would be more inclined to like her vs if he thinks she is planning to take advantage of illya)

I see Jeeves getting allong really well with kuradeel after some inital akwardness, they both admire Ilya, both want to work hard for the guild and their play styles complement each other, an agro attracting tank and a ambushing debuff/dps I see them both aknowledging and respectin each other for their own effort to work hard and support the ones they both respect.

Shirou I see jeeves really admiring not only as the sixth ranger and all that entails, but as Ilya's brother, even if they arent' related he could see that he really cares for her, possibly as her gardian or effectly as one, and they got into the game together, whether or not he aknowledges their supsicious ability

Ilya is someone Jeeves respects and wants to protect. In the game she is one of the best and doesn't really need physical protection, but she still looks like a little girl that should be looked after, the whole butler thing would be a fun way to roleplay his behind the scenes style while essetially playing with her, and being available to help. He would enjoy being able to support her, and in the end he pictures it like the sterotype of the sheltered rich girl taken care of by the help that obeys her but cares for her as more than jus their boss, he wants to step into that role (already kind of filled in real life by shirou) as a way to be aroudn this person that is strong but he would feel terrible leaving alone. That said he would also find a lot of her behaviour adorable in the sense of a precocious but insensitive child.

To the other front liners, he is Ilya's answer to Hanzo and Fuuamin, BSM trying for quality over quantity, remaing small but powerful.
 
I find myself inordinately amused by the thought of how our various [Pokemontagonists] would get along with each-other if they ended up in the same BSM, but then, that'd require coming to bilaterial agreement on the relative chemistry and agreeability of them.
 
I suppose that it might be a good idea for me to go into Mephiles a little, my own potential BSM member.

I imagine that he would actually approach the guild first, as a bit of a shocker, in an attempt to get some information on what his Nothingness element might be capable of. Kuradeel's chapter shows that Ilya is considered to be very knowledgeable about lore, so they might seem a logical place to get information from. After all, the information from the wiki, and therefore the most we know about Nothingness is that it deals with "that which should not be, but materializes in defiance of that", which is not helpful. His joining would probably come from realizing the benefits of being in the same guild as the closest thing there is to an expert on Rare Elements, as well as being enticed by the reputation of the guild.

He'd probably try to contact the guild via Argo, since she's done matchmaking in the past, according to one conversation between her and Shirou.

As for spellwork, I imagine him as a person who does a lot of research, partially because he's trying to make up for lost time, and partially because he's got a lot of ideas that he wants to work on. For example, could he use his element to make Bounded Fields that are bigger on the inside than on the outside? Could he use Nothingness to make phantom familiars that can be used as scouts? What happens if he Alters a mob so that Nothingness is part of its body?

Regarding character interactions, he'd probably be awkwardly polite around Shirou, especially after the sword gift. This is because he's one of the people that thinks that Shirou's a robot, though he keeps it to himself.

Ilya would be someone who he feels grateful to for providing him information as to what the hell his element is actually good for, though he'd also be annoyed by some of her antics.

Kuradeel would be someone that he feels a kinship with, as well as a sort of admiration. They both have an element that seems useless, but while Mephiles stayed at the back lines, Kuradeel decided to go out and become good enough to get to the front left lines. That sort of courage is commendable, but the way he looks up to Ilya is slightly disturbing.

Asuna would be someone he would respect, if only because she spends a great deal of time keeping the guild on a steady path. From the guilds he's seen and his own experience with regular games, that requires skills and charisma.

Kirito and Silica would actually be people who he doesn't really associate with all that much outside of combat. He spends a good deal of time working on magic, and that kind of puts a limit on how much he can socialize. Their skills would definitely be something he'd respect, whether it be for how Kirito's developing Numerology-based magecraft or Silica's mastery of familiars.

Leviathan would be like Kuradeel, in that Mephiles feels kinship with him. They're both rear liners, they both got elements that seem useless and were hamstrung by that, and they both just got by for a while. Dude could be a little more optimistic though.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
Thinking about the Sixth Imaginary Element (Demons or Devils), one thing it's supposed to be good for in the 'materialization of wishes.' Shirou and Kirito both wish to create a lightsabre, so I wonder if adding someone with the appropriate form of the Sixth (or just the Sixth in general, instead of a specialized variant) could help them with that... and what the consequences of this would be.
 
Top