Akamatsuverse 3 Laws Safe

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#1
What if Keitaro were a humaniform robot that followed AsimovÆs three laws?

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

A few things to keep in mind.

ôthe Laws had been deliberately misrepresented because robots could unknowingly break any of them.ö

ôA robot may do nothing that, to its knowledge, will harm a human being; nor, through inaction, knowingly allow a human being to come to harm."

ôThe First Law forbids a robot from harming a human being, unless the robot is clever enough to rationalize that its actions are for the human's long-term good.ö

ôA robot may not harm a human being, unless he finds a way to prove that in the final analysis, the harm done would benefit humanity in general."

I think an argument can be made that Keitaro has done a fair job following these laws throughout the story of Love Hina.

Two major variations on this story occur to me. The first it that æR. Keitaro UrashimaÆ is fully aware of his status as a robot but has seen fit not to reveal this fact to anyone outside his immediate æfamilyÆ. The other option is that he is unaware of his robotic status.

Now this story would detail the events leading up to and following the revelation of his true nature to the residents of the Hinata Inn.

A possibility for Option One: Keitaro is aware heÆs a machine.

The reason he has never before revealed his true nature is because it wasnÆt necessary to exceed human performance to save the Inn residents from harm. This story presents Keitaro with a situation that can not be solved without revealing the fact that he is a machine.

For example

KeitaroÆs eyes snapped open and he sat up right as his ears picked up the sounds of extra heartbeats approaching the Inn. The young æRoninÆ frowned as he noted the elevated beats and silent approach. When someone began to pick the lock to the front door he tossed his covers aside and stealthily slipped from his room.

Before the intrusion he had once again been trying to determine how to resolve his current relationship conundrum. The residents of the Inn were all very charming, and he found himself enjoying their company. Yet heÆd begun to realize that their feelings for him were fast moving beyond friendly and hovering at the threshold of something far deeper.

Although he was most receptive to the idea of pursuing a relationship, he was unsure how they would react to discovering that he was a robot. His earlier equivocation had not gone over well, though he had been forgiven, and he had no desire to being such a deep and human relationship under such false assumptions.

Still such concerns were to be put aside for the moment as a much more immediate problem presented itself.

He switched vision modes, thermal showing his sleeping tenants as the walls faded before his sight. His vision also showed four adults moving with disturbing professionalism down the hallway, straight for Su-chanÆs room on the lower floor. Keitaro blinked and his view switched again as he crouched, watching the figures below him through the sonics. It became very obvious that they were well armed and not interested in kidnapping.

KeitaroÆs mind whirled, bringing up the various news reports and files heÆs been reading over the past month concerning the unrest in Molmol. Supposedly it was caused by a group of revolutionaries who wanted to remove the Monarchy. Yet there were hints that their funding and supplies were actually coming from a long time enemy nation. The fact that four professional hit people seemed in the process of killing Su, a child of the crown, Keitaro surmised that there might be some truth to this particular line of thought.

Keitaro reared back his fist, just as the would be assassins raised their silenced sub-machine guns, aiming them at SuÆs door while taking up breeching positions. Through his Sonics he saw the leaderÆs silent count down with his fingers. When he reached ætwoÆ R. Keitaro Urashima acted.

******

Motoko was feeling antsy, something about the night had not sat well with the sword maiden. Eventually the restlessness led her out of bed to clean her blade, hoping to find solace and sleep in a simple, repetitive task. The soft whisper of clothing and the feather light touch of footfalls killed that possibility.

The kendoist stood, suddenly very alert and silently padded to her door. Gently as possible she slide her door open with one hand, a naked blade in the other. Her eyes went wide as she spotted a few figures aiming weapons at SuÆs door down the hall. She whipped her blade around, trying to think of a distraction that would keep them from firing on her defenseless friend. She neednÆt have bothered.

Before anyone else acted, the ceiling caved in on them and a body crashed amongst them.

Motoko was moving, blade at the ready, her swift feet eating up the distance as the assassins turned to deal with this new threat. The new players was faster, much faster.

The male planted his hands on the ground and used a scissor kick to drop the guy near the door. The new player impossibly flipped themself up and over, legs knocking one gun askew as it fired, itÆs rounds striking the ceiling on the floor above. SuÆs savior landed on his feet, hands snatching the firing gun from the assailantÆs hands and snapping it into two as he sent him crashing atop the first assassin with a well placed kick.

Motoko almost stumbled when she realized it was Keitaro that was rapidly disarming and subduing these killers. She recovered quickly though, the thought of Su in danger shoving out all other concerns.

Keitaro used the pieces of the gun heÆd broken as impromptu blunt weapons, striking the third assailants gun arm and left knee. The assailantÆs weapon went spinning in one direction, while he crumpled to the ground. Keitaro spun around just in time to take a shotgun blast to the stomach. The force of it knocked him flat on his back, causing him to skid towards the racing swordÆs woman.

Something hot and wet splashed onto MotokoÆs cheeks as the world turned red; she leapt, clearing the likely dead body of their surprisingly heroic Ronin. The last killerÆs eyes went wide as he tried to adjust his aim, but proved to slow. MotokoÆs sword cut through his gun, while removing three fingers from his right hand in the same motion.

The man howled as he brought his maimed hand to his chest. He fumbled at a knife with his left as Motoko spun her blade up and around, intending to separate the Ronin killers head from his body.

A thrown butt of a gun slammed into the guyÆs crotch just as a familiar voice cried out. ôMotoko, donÆt, STOP!ö The assassins doubled over, the sword maidenÆs blade sailing over his head. She kept her balance and instead brought her knee up, smashing it into his nose. The man snapped up and over crashing onto his back. She quickly struck all of them with the flat of her blade, ensuring they were down before she allowed herself to turn.

Su-chan stood at her door, eyes wide as she stared at Keitaro. Behind him the other residents were already running up, pulling up short at the carnage. ôKeitaro! YouÆve been shot!!ö

The Ronin favored Su with a tight smile as he held a hand over his bleeding gut. ôItÆs okay; he just grazed me thatÆs all.ö

Motoko stared at Keitaro as if heÆd lost his mind. ôHe didnÆtÆ graze you! I saw him unload a blast right into you at point blank range!!ö Su-Chan was at his side before anyone else, prying his hand away. What she revealed brought the approaching Motoko up short.

There was a wound yes, with just skin, muscle and what looked like mechanical parts.

The Ronin favored them both with a tired grin ôI think we should tie these guys up, contact the Molmol embassy, and then weÆll need to talk aboutà.this.ö


*****

So how would the girls react in this situation to KeitaroÆs secret? I mean he did save Su, but heÆs also been deceiving them for quite some time, and the fact he was doing it knowingly only makes things worse.

IÆm putting this one up for adoption if anyone wants it, though I may write out a few more scenes later on just to show my own thoughts on the residents various reactions.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#2
While he could not harm a human, that does not mean he could not do more about his situation in canon.

For example, he could destroy motoko's sword, rather than get hit with an attack by it.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#3
PCHeintz72 said:
While he could not harm a human, that does not mean he could not do more about his situation in canon.

For example, he could destroy motoko's sword, rather than get hit with an attack by it.
But considering how much Motoko's invested herself, her very identity into that sword, wouldn't it harm her to destroy it on a deep emotional level?
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#4
Ordo said:
PCHeintz72 said:
While he could not harm a human, that does not mean he could not do more about his situation in canon.

For example, he could destroy motoko's sword, rather than get hit with an attack by it.
But considering how much Motoko's invested herself, her very identity into that sword, wouldn't it harm her to destroy it on a deep emotional level?
Most would interpret that rule to be physical harm... after all, since the perspective would be different from that of a human, would you want a non-human attempting to judge what is emotional harm to a human... He should be able to find a way to bust the sword, wihout breaking her body.

Emotional harm could be had by merely associating with Naru... Motoko has stated how much she hates his presence... So... given all this, he would never have stayed...

Also... this flawed view aspect could well be a critical plot point he has to learn...
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#5
Most would interpret that rule to be physical harm
There is a precedent for robots considering the emotional harm they can cause to humans. I think it was in the story æLiarÆ where a robot lied to a few humans because he knew the truth would harm them emotionally.

after all, since the perspective would be different from that of a human, would you want a non-human attempting to judge what is emotional harm to a human
Depends on the non-human, their level of understanding of humanity and their own motivations and prejudices. At the end of the day R. Keitaro Urashima is motivated to help humanity in general and these humans in particular. He does have problems determining which minor æharmsÆ fall in the acceptable category,

He should be able to find a way to bust the sword, wihout breaking her body.
Easily, he could slip into her room at night and snap it over his knee, or the next time she swung it at him, he could grab it, yank it out of her hands and destroy the weapon. However he is advanced enough to realize that destroying something she values would be emotionally detrimental to her, and since her attacks are not really threatening his continued existence, despite his acting, heÆs inclined to let them continue for now.

Emotional harm could be had by merely associating with Naru... Motoko has stated how much she hates his presence... So... given all this, he would never have stayed...
Later robots began to understand that humans needed to experience a certain level of harm to grow and develop properly. KeitaroÆs continued presence at the Hinata Inn is better in the long run for all the girls than his absence, at least for now. Keitaro is also æfollowingÆ Grandma UrashimaÆs orders by staying and she specifically choose Keitaro because he is a humaniform robot and thus the only being she could completely trust with her tenets welfare. No other human male that Grandma Urashima knew could be trusted to run the Inn, look after the girls and do it all without taking æadvantageÆ of his position as manager.

Also... this flawed view aspect could well be a critical plot point he has to learn...
He is in the process of learning a number of things and view points. I was more inclined to write an action scene, than have Keitaro ponder the long term ramifications of him choosing to return the girlsÆ affections. Though I did feel that having R. Keitaro Urashima slowly learning to comprehend which types of emotional harm are either good for the girlÆs growth, or at least preferable over another, to be a major aspect of this storyline.
 

Mercsenary

Well-Known Member
#6
"Why didn't you tell us you were a robot?!"

"You... didnt ask." :D-
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#7
Mercsenary said:
"Why didn't you tell us you were a robot?!"

"You... didnt ask." :D-
Shinobu: (pursues her lips together as she watches R. Keitaro hug his chosen girl, and turns to his creator) ôAreàare thereàdid you make any more like him?ö (The other girls give the KeitaroÆs creator a speculative look)
 

Mercsenary

Well-Known Member
#8
Ordo said:
Mercsenary said:
"Why didn't you tell us you were a robot?!"

"You... didnt ask." :D-
Shinobu: (pursues her lips together as she watches R. Keitaro hug his chosen girl, and turns to his creator) ôAreàare thereàdid you make any more like him?ö (The other girls give the KeitaroÆs creator a speculative look)
"Why? I mean I have the blueprints, material... will be harder to get- Why are you all looking at me like that?"
 

Crusader

Well-Known Member
#9
Did R. Keitaro have have an ECM module installed to fool Su's scanning and detecting machines or does he have the same ability as Saati to communicate with machines and alter the programming and readings?
 
#10
So, it's about a Keitaro who does what he's told and doesn't hurt people? And this is different how?
 

ringlhach

Well-Known Member
#11
On the "hurt" thing: there's also the 'bot guarding the real Earth in the Foundation series- R. Daneel, I think it ended up being, but he was, strictly speaking, not exactly a robot off towards the end.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#12
Later robots began to understand that humans needed to experience a certain level of harm to grow and develop properly.
This very reasoning could be used to apply to Motoko and her sword.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#13
PCHeintz72 said:
Later robots began to understand that humans needed to experience a certain level of harm to grow and develop properly.
This very reasoning could be used to apply to Motoko and her sword.
I'm curious why you are so determined to break Motoko's sword?

The sword isn't proving a signifiant threat to R. Keitaro's existance, and destroying it might only hamper his efforts to help her grow as a person. Those are a couple of the reasons I imagine R. Keitaro would refrain from such action.
 

Antimatter

Well-Known Member
#14
Ordo said:
Mercsenary said:
"Why didn't you tell us you were a robot?!"

"You... didnt ask." :D-
Shinobu: (pursues her lips together as she watches R. Keitaro hug his chosen girl, and turns to his creator) ôAreàare thereàdid you make any more like him?ö (The other girls give the KeitaroÆs creator a speculative look)
who is his creator, come to think of it, and when?

is R.Keitaro is cyber double of the Real Keitaro? Or is this a situation where he was been built and rebuilt since 'childhood' as some long running experiment in human-mecha relations.

Does Kanako know hes a mecha? Or is she one as well? Her 'adoption' could have been when she was brought online.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#15
Ordo said:
PCHeintz72 said:
Later robots began to understand that humans needed to experience a certain level of harm to grow and develop properly.
This very reasoning could be used to apply to Motoko and her sword.
I'm curious why you are so determined to break Motoko's sword?

The sword isn't proving a signifiant threat to R. Keitaro's existance, and destroying it might only hamper his efforts to help her grow as a person. Those are a couple of the reasons I imagine R. Keitaro would refrain from such action.
It is not that I am determined to break the sword per se... it is that you are persistent in having him not harm the girls due to the 3 laws. However, the breaking of the sword is the single most obvious flaw in that to my eyes, as it allows him to defend himself without harming them (phyiscally).

Likewise... he could catch and stop Naru's punches and strikes as they are thrown. To name another such example.

Either would be better for them and teach them lessons for in the long run than the psychological pain it would inflict short term.

Also... for a robot to be sentient, he has to show signs of life (at least for it to be a worthwhile read, and to explain how he managed to fool them as long as he did)... one of those is self preservation.

Now... as for the sword not being a signifigant threat... at best it is a indirect threat... It could well send him into a landing he cannot recover from... and that is assuming she does not get lucky and the vacumn blades/ki attacks do not hit something they should not... like accidentally beheading him.


For a model of how I've been seeing this, look to Data and or a good version of Lore in Star Trek Next Generation, or perhaps the holographic doctor from Star Trek Voyager.

Since it is obvious we seem to disagree... and this is not my thread... I likely will not bother you with any further post on that topic.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#16
PCHeintz72 said:
It is not that I am determined to break the sword per se...? it is that you are persistent in having him not harm the girls due to the 3 laws.
The 3 laws and his flawed understanding of what's best for humanity are used as an explanation for his actions to date. However, part of this stories goal is to show how R.Keitaro Urashima would grow as a sentient being, and what actions he would take once his secret was revealed.

However, the breaking of the sword is the single most obvious flaw in that to my eyes, as it allows him to defend himself without harming them (phyiscally).
Breaking the sword is one solution, but it's not necassarily the best solution. I feel that part of Keitaro's growth would involve him discovering ways to solve such problems without resorting to such methods.

Likewise...á he could catch and stop Naru's punches and strikes as they are thrown.á To name another such example.

Either would be better for them and teach them lessons for in the long run than the psychological pain it would inflict short term.
As I stated, R.Keitaro's flawed understanding of what's best for humans is part of the reason he has not acted to end the situations mentioned. That said, R. Keitaro might find other ways to solve these problems that do not require such direct physical action.

Now...á as for the sword not being a signifigant threat...á at best it is a indirect threat...á It could well send him into a landing he cannot recover from...á and that is assuming she does not get lucky and the vacumn blades/ki attacks do not hit something they should not...á like accidentally beheading him.
R.Keitaro does not see these attacks or his landings afterwards as being a significant threat to his continued existance. For all her rage, Motoko is likely pulling her punches as she feels she's dealing with a person who is not a fighter. Now, that could change once she learns he's a robot. I would fully support R.Keitaro having to deal with a Motoko who strikes at him with what she feels is appropriate force for a machine. His actions should prove most enlightening.

Since it is obvious we seem to disagree...á and this is not my thread...á I likely will not bother you with any further post on that topic.
You're not bothering me, and the fact that we disagree is no reason to cease the debate. I will not be writing this fic, and our different viewpoints will help whoever does write it determine in which direction they wish to take the story.

who is his creator, come to think of it, and when?
Likely his father or mother. I hadn't set that part in stone

is R.Keitaro is cyber double of the Real Keitaro? Or is this a situation where he was been built and rebuilt since 'childhood' as some long running experiment in human-mecha relations.
I'm inclined to view Keitaro as a robot that has been built and rebuilt since 'childhood'. Perhaps he was a gift to his parents when they learned that they could not conceive a child.

Does Kanako know hes a mecha?
Yes, that's why she's so fixated on him. R.Keitaro is everything she wants, and knows that she won't have to fear any heartbreak. Yet, to her vexation, he seems oblivious to her advances.

Did R. Keitaro have have an ECM module installed to fool Su's scanning and detecting machines or does he have the same ability as Saati to communicate with machines and alter the programming and readings?
Let's go with ECM module for now.
 

kevinasher

Well-Known Member
#17
If I were to write this, and thats not likely to happen for the time being, I might argue that Keitaro could in fact be an android representation of the true Keitaro; a Keitaro who was killed in an accident and all efforts to keep him from death were able to bring him back to life for a short time... like long enough to restore very minor functions to the brain. And his memory, motor function, and certain other personality traits that can meaningfully be linked to brain functions all suffered from the period of time while the human Keitaro was deceased. In my mind, it might make a decent starting point for why he doesn't know he is an android. He was never told that he was an android by his parents because they were still trying to cope with the loss of their true flesh and blood son. Kanako was too young to actually remember the accident, but she is his real sister- not his adopted sister; they just told him that after they realized that the memories of his sister had been lost. I had more, but it abandoned me while I toyed with the concepts during my Bioshock 2 session.
 

Delusionist

Well-Known Member
#18
Crusader said:
Did R. Keitaro have have an ECM module installed to fool Su's scanning and detecting machines or does he have the same ability as Saati to communicate with machines and alter the programming and readings?
I think it would be funnier to have Su being entirely aware that he's a robot, but finds absolutely nothing strange about it and thus neglects to mention it to anyone else.
 

kevinasher

Well-Known Member
#19
Delusionist said:
Crusader said:
Did R. Keitaro have have an ECM module installed to fool Su's scanning and detecting machines or does he have the same ability as Saati to communicate with machines and alter the programming and readings?
I think it would be funnier to have Su being entirely aware that he's a robot, but finds absolutely nothing strange about it and thus neglects to mention it to anyone else.
first off, Koalla would mention it in passing the moment she realized. besides, even if she did know and didnt blab, how would that add to the story? it would require an explaination on how she knew, why she didnt mention it, and wouldn't be meaningful to the plot in the longrun
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#20
kevinasher said:
Delusionist said:
Crusader said:
Did R. Keitaro have have an ECM module installed to fool Su's scanning and detecting machines or does he have the same ability as Saati to communicate with machines and alter the programming and readings?
I think it would be funnier to have Su being entirely aware that he's a robot, but finds absolutely nothing strange about it and thus neglects to mention it to anyone else.
first off, Koalla would mention it in passing the moment she realized. besides, even if she did know and didnt blab, how would that add to the story? it would require an explaination on how she knew, why she didnt mention it, and wouldn't be meaningful to the plot in the longrun
In canon, Kaolla does use a term for Keitaro that refers to inanimate objects.
 

Mercsenary

Well-Known Member
#21
Prince Charon said:
kevinasher said:
Delusionist said:
Crusader said:
Did R. Keitaro have have an ECM module installed to fool Su's scanning and detecting machines or does he have the same ability as Saati to communicate with machines and alter the programming and readings?
I think it would be funnier to have Su being entirely aware that he's a robot, but finds absolutely nothing strange about it and thus neglects to mention it to anyone else.
first off, Koalla would mention it in passing the moment she realized. besides, even if she did know and didnt blab, how would that add to the story? it would require an explaination on how she knew, why she didnt mention it, and wouldn't be meaningful to the plot in the longrun
In canon, Kaolla does use a term for Keitaro that refers to inanimate objects.
How... suspicious... :D
 

FinalMax

Well-Known Member
#22
Here's a more interesting idea: Keitaro isn't the only three laws robot in the dorms. Kitsune is another. All the teasing and effectively getting R. Keitaro into trouble is because she knows he is a robot like her. Third law is self-preservation, not protection of like beings.

Kitsune was built to be Naru's friend back in high school, and Seta was her former adjuster. When Naru expressed an interest in Seta, Kitsune calculated that the knowledge of her existence as a robot mixed with her actual need to go to Seta to preserve said existence would hurt Naru's feelings. That would make her quietly ask for a new adjuster. Currently, that adjuster is Haruka Urashima.

As for the reason why Keitaro might not just destroy Motoko's sword, that first law can make it fairly hazy if harm means just physical impairment or emotional hurt. If that doesn't work, then the orders he was given upon taking care of the Sou would do it. Say the orders were to safeguard them and help with their goals. If the manager's log has a note stating Motoko's desire to eventually take over the family school, he could not impair that directive in any sense. Therefore, the first two laws come into full effect.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#23
Mercsenary said:
Prince Charon said:
kevinasher said:
Delusionist said:
Crusader said:
Did R. Keitaro have have an ECM module installed to fool Su's scanning and detecting machines or does he have the same ability as Saati to communicate with machines and alter the programming and readings?
I think it would be funnier to have Su being entirely aware that he's a robot, but finds absolutely nothing strange about it and thus neglects to mention it to anyone else.
first off, Koalla would mention it in passing the moment she realized. besides, even if she did know and didnt blab, how would that add to the story? it would require an explaination on how she knew, why she didnt mention it, and wouldn't be meaningful to the plot in the longrun
In canon, Kaolla does use a term for Keitaro that refers to inanimate objects.
How... suspicious... :D
Well itÆs not like R.Keitaro and KaollaÆs big brother are both robots and have the same creatorà..right?

Edit:

Just had a thought what if the original R.Keitaro never returned from his trip around the world with Seta? You see, his creator, having realized how successful his model was, built another using KeitaroÆs memory as the basis for itÆs personality. That R.Keitaro-2.0, in secret, deactivated/imprisoned R.Keitaro1.0 and took his place. However since 2.0 is still æyoungÆ and unsure of himself he emulated Seta in an attempt to ensure the girls would love him just as much if not more than the original. You see heÆs just playing a role, doing the things he æthinksÆ will earn him the attention and affection he desperately craves. 2.0 is somewhere between a puppy and a child as far as his need for affection.

1.0 eventually returns, and that causes the revelation of R.KeitaroÆs true nature. Now 1.0 has been active longer as is the ætrulyÆ mature one. He is comfortable with himself, and wants people to like him for who he is and not for what he can pretend to be. So now we have a clash of Keitaro, with the poor girls caught in the middle.

For added fun, 1.0 was sent to NegaiÆs magical world by 2.0. It took him awhile to find his way back home, but the journey was well worth the effort. Instead of following in SetaÆs footsteps, 1.0 has become an adventurer, the first robot to accomplish such a feat. The fact that he never kills his enemies is even more impressive.
 
Top