Akamatsuverse A better Keitaro/Naru ending?

[Crusader]

While I can respect the fact that Ken Akamatsu went for the "first girl gets the guy" clichÚ favouring Keitaro/Naru, the ending of the manga and the OVA LH Again has probably left a bitter aftertaste to many who witnessed it. Many critics feel that Ken Akamatsu simply killed off Keitaro as a character by turning him into a clone of Seta in order for Keitaro to finally win Naru's "love", and giving Love Hina what many feel is a quite tragi-comic ending.

Akamatsu could have handled it better by not having Keitaro end up as a xerox of Seta Noriyasu and have Naru admit her love, or at least having Naru (when she discovers that Keitaro's become a Seta clone) proclaim that she loved him for who he is and not for what he's trying to be now and try to turn him back into the old Keitaro.

For some reason I have the impression the Love Hina video games seem to have handled Keitaro and Naru becoming a couple better, considering that at least in the games Naru could love Keitaro and admit her feelings for him without him resorting to desperate measures like emulating Seta.

So in the end my personal opinion is that if Ken Akamatsu had handled the Keitaro/Naru pairing better, many wouldn't have been so critical and sceptical of it.

 

[mgsaintz]

In some cases I'll agree but I don't believe that Naru fell in love with Keitaro because he became a clone of Seta. In the manga their relationship began a short time before Keitaro left for America, even though Naru at some points did doubt herself. I think the real sticking point for the Kei/Naru pairing is how Naru never really showed how she felt for Keitaro or want to admit it.

 

[Crusader]

In some cases I'll agree but I don't believe that Naru fell in love with Keitaro because he became a clone of Seta. In the manga their relationship began a short time before Keitaro left for America, even though Naru at some points did doubt herself. I think the real sticking point for the Kei/Naru pairing is how Naru never really showed how she felt for Keitaro or want to admit it.

You do have a point here that Naru did harbour feelings for Keitaro, but due to the fact that it seemed that Naru only seemed to really openly admit her feelings after Keitaro returned as a Seta II it gives sceptics the impression that she was only looking for a substitute for Seta and not for Keitaro as a person.

But being a cynic, I always feel that it took Keitaro "becoming Seta" to make Naru really take notice of him in the end.

But we can agree on that Naru should've been scripted to evolve as a character by showing openly how she felt about Keitaro and willingly admit it, without the turning-into-Seta plot device.

 

[SimmyC]

It's interesting how I've read many people notice the same thing.

And it's the same thing on why I'm critical with the ending.

Even for those that are fine with Keitaro being with Naru, the fact he became a Seta clone in the end did not sit well with many of them. Now I am with the people that would point out that Naru did fall for Keitaro before he became one. Still, the way Akamatsu handled the ending, especially after Volume 9 of the manga, was pretty poor (and I'm a Kanako fan. So the fact that the volumes she appeared in was pretty meh was double ).

Even if I give a pass on the whole Keitaro being Seta 2 part, my main criticism though is Naru. While it's clear Motoko developed from her man hating self to someone that truly did fall for Keitaro, Naru just, gave off the impression that she didn't grow up. I know indecisiveness is a trait that is realistic. And many girls (boys too. :unsure: ) have that. I get it. But the fact that it took Hina's intervention for her to realize her feelings FINALLY... just didn't sit well (no, not that Hina intervened. But the fact it took that long for her to realize it. Literally like the second to last chapter). If Naru's character was developed better, I might have given their coupling a pass.

But since that didn't happen, it's why I read fanfics that have 'alternative' pairings.

 

[Crusader]

It's interesting how I've read many people notice the same thing.

And it's the same thing on why I'm critical with the ending.

Even for those that are fine with Keitaro being with Naru, the fact he became a Seta clone in the end did not sit well with many of them. Now I am with the people that would point out that Naru did fall for Keitaro before he became one. Still, the way Akamatsu handled the ending, especially after Volume 9 of the manga, was pretty poor (and I'm a Kanako fan. So the fact that the volumes she appeared in was pretty meh was double ).

Even if I give a pass on the whole Keitaro being Seta 2 part, my main criticism though is Naru. While it's clear Motoko developed from her man hating self to someone that truly did fall for Keitaro, Naru just, gave off the impression that she didn't grow up. I know indecisiveness is a trait that is realistic. And many girls (boys too. :unsure: ) have that. I get it. But the fact that it took Hina's intervention for her to realize her feelings FINALLY... just didn't sit well (no, not that Hina intervened. But the fact it took that long for her to realize it. Literally like the second to last chapter). If Naru's character was developed better, I might have given their coupling a pass.

But since that didn't happen, it's why I read fanfics that have 'alternative' pairings.

I can imagine that many people around the world noticed the same thing, probably even some of the Japanese fans who were critical of the lack of what they saw as maturing and character development in the female lead tsundere.

Many are critical of the ending for various reasons. But most seem to agree on that the Keitaro/Naru romance was handled badly.

I for one would have been more accepting of the fact of Keitaro being with Naru hadn't he turned into a facsimile of Seta. While it is true as you pointed out earlier that Naru had feelings for Keitaro before his fateful transformation, I always have the pessimistic feeling that it took becoming a clone of Seta to get the snowball rolling for their relationship.

I can respect and understand the opinions and arguments of those who point out that Naru did harbour feelings for Keitaro before his trip, but I still, due to my own opinions, seem to think that Naru in many ways wanted Keitaro to become like Seta before she would really accept him openly.

Personally I think the romance between Akamatsu's earlier characters Hitoshi and Saati were handled in a better way, if you compare Naru and Saati's character developments.

 

[FinalMax]

The real issue is common to romantic comedy manga in general. It's not just "first girl gets the guy," but "static first girl gets the guy." The first girl tends to get their introduction also double as their character development. After that period, the girl has a static (as in unchanging and predictable) character. Meanwhile, the male lead and the supporting cast spend the rest of the manga developing their characters before the climax which has the male lead end up with the first girl.

I think Akamatsu was either tired of working on Love Hina or got pushed by the publisher to finish it in a specific way. That's not even counting his bad luck with the anime adaptations of the manga.

 

[Crusader]

The real issue is common to romantic comedy manga in general. It's not just "first girl gets the guy," but "static first girl gets the guy." The first girl tends to get their introduction also double as their character development. After that period, the girl has a static (as in unchanging and predictable) character. Meanwhile, the male lead and the supporting cast spend the rest of the manga developing their characters before the climax which has the male lead end up with the first girl.

I think Akamatsu was either tired of working on Love Hina or got pushed by the publisher to finish it in a specific way. That's not even counting his bad luck with the anime adaptations of the manga.

Good point here about the first girl being a static character compared to the others, but I want to add that in some cases you can see character development in the first girl who tends to be static, but I found it quite lacking in Naru's character compared to some of the other first girl's I've seen.

Both your theories here seem plausible.

Well I can't say that the 24-episode anime adaption went that badly compared to the fact that I think he was unluckier with the Negima anime adaption, seeing that the people who adapted it maybe wanted it to be more child-friendly for younger viewers.

 

[Urdarum]

I believe that my main issue with the Keitaro/Naru ending is that it felt imposed on Keitaro, as if the people were conspiring for it to happen. Every single time Keitaro started looking in other direction or losing hope of been with Naru someone had to appear and tell Keitaro "There is this thing that shows she could be your promised girl." Of course that could be result of a faulty memory because it's been a long time since I read the manga but I just can't recall a moment other than the first and third exams for Todai were it was Naru who brought Keitaro back before his studies in America.

After his time in America Keitaro was just a Seta clone dead set in been with Naru with the tube vision of Harima. For this moment we all knew Keitaro wasn't going to change his mind no matter what and it all reduced to Naru finally accepting him. Which took an adventure at Todai ruins and every other single girl refusing Keitaro's invitation to enter together something that made it look like an acceptance out of pity in my book; besides she wouldn't even try to change her attitude still hitting him when he said something embarrassing or had an accident... surely a healthy relationship.

 

[nuclear death frog]

It's been ages since I read the LH manga, but the Keitarou/Naru pairing always felt very forced. I never liked it much. And Keitarou becoming a Seta clone towards the end made it all the worse, because it just makes the impression that Naru never really wanted Keitarou to begin with, but Seta instead.

I also felt that Naru was just a really bad choice and that any of the other girls would have been a better one, eventually. Yes, the hits are slapstick/comedy relief...but she's still hitting him. And when she avoids him and doesn't answer him for MONTHS after his confession and then gives him her pathetic response, she'd still been avoiding him and the issue he'd raised.

I just don't like the pairing. That's it.

 

[Crusader]

I believe that my main issue with the Keitaro/Naru ending is that it felt imposed on Keitaro, as if the people were conspiring for it to happen. Every single time Keitaro started looking in other direction or losing hope of been with Naru someone had to appear and tell Keitaro "There is this thing that shows she could be your promised girl." Of course that could be result of a faulty memory because it's been a long time since I read the manga but I just can't recall a moment other than the first and third exams for Todai were it was Naru who brought Keitaro back before his studies in America.

After his time in America Keitaro was just a Seta clone dead set in been with Naru with the tube vision of Harima. For this moment we all knew Keitaro wasn't going to change his mind no matter what and it all reduced to Naru finally accepting him. Which took an adventure at Todai ruins and every other single girl refusing Keitaro's invitation to enter together something that made it look like an acceptance out of pity in my book; besides she wouldn't even try to change her attitude still hitting him when he said something embarrassing or had an accident... surely a healthy relationship.

It's been ages since I read the LH manga, but the Keitarou/Naru pairing always felt very forced. I never liked it much. And Keitarou becoming a Seta clone towards the end made it all the worse, because it just makes the impression that Naru never really wanted Keitarou to begin with, but Seta instead.

I also felt that Naru was just a really bad choice and that any of the other girls would have been a better one, eventually. Yes, the hits are slapstick/comedy relief...but she's still hitting him. And when she avoids him and doesn't answer him for MONTHS after his confession and then gives him her pathetic response, she'd still been avoiding him and the issue he'd raised.

I just don't like the pairing. That's it.

Both of you seem to make a good point on that the Keitaro/Naru pairing appeared to be imposed and enforced.

At least in the video games it appears that the player controlling Keitaro can choose Naru out of their own free will, and that Naru can be more accepting of Keitaro for who he is. You just have to appreciate the irony of that the video games can have more acceptable Keitaro/Naru endings than what Akamatsu presented in the manga.

Sometimes I even get the feeling that a doujinshi writer or a fanfiction writer, who could even detest Naru, could manage to make a better Keitaro/Naru story and ending than Ken Akamatsu.

 

[nuclear death frog]

You shouldn't quote more than one person in one box like that. Your post looks like I said all of that, when I didn't. You should have quoted me or the other guy, and then put the other person's quotes in another box.


Like this.

Blah Blah Blah.

Blah Blah Blah yourself!

Or this.

Blah Blah Blah.

Blah Blah Blah yourself!

Instead, you sort of mixed them, and that's bad. Don't do that; it's misleading.

 

[Crusader]

Sorry! :wacko: I'll try to fix it :headbanger: Must be because I'm still an amateur when it comes to this.

I hope this fixes it up a bit
:sweat2:

 

[nuclear death frog]

Sorry! :wacko: I'll try to fix it :headbanger: Must be because I'm still an amateur when it comes to this.

I hope this fixes it up a bit
:sweat2:

You've fixed it partway.

After the opening word 'QUOTE', put an equal sign (=) and then the name of the poster. That attributes the quotation. Don't put the parentheses around the equal sign; I was just showing it to you.

It should look like this.

{quote=ndf}Blah Blah Blah{/quote}

Only in these [] instead of {}

 

[Crusader]

You've fixed it partway.

After the opening word 'QUOTE', put an equal sign (=) and then the name of the poster. That attributes the quotation. Don't put the parentheses around the equal sign; I was just showing it to you.

It should look like this.

{quote=ndf}Blah Blah Blah{/quote}

Only in these [] instead of {}

Thanks, nuclear death frog.

This embarassing incident reminds me of the time I got reprimanded when I used to answer many posters with one post for each poster.

 

[FinalMax]

Some of the comments we've just generated seem to add more credence to the thought that the end pairing was the result of the ending in general being rushed. Whether it was because Akamatsu wanted to just finish it or the publisher pushed it is unclear, but the result is. We got an ending that left loose ends and disappointed readers.

That makes it hard to gauge the end for Negima right now, as it really seems that Akamatsu is having fun writing it. We've already had the revelation on the relationship (from a familial standpoint) between Asuna and Negi, but then there's the Library Trio and the forced nature their relationship with Negi displayed from the beginning. And that's just two outlooks. All we can hope for is that this particular manga doesn't get a rushed ending that leaves dissatisfied readers.

 

[knight_of_ni]

I believe that my main issue with the Keitaro/Naru ending is that it felt imposed on Keitaro, as if the people were conspiring for it to happen. Every single time Keitaro started looking in other direction or losing hope of been with Naru someone had to appear and tell Keitaro "There is this thing that shows she could be your promised girl." Of course that could be result of a faulty memory because it's been a long time since I read the manga but I just can't recall a moment other than the first and third exams for Todai were it was Naru who brought Keitaro back before his studies in America.

After his time in America Keitaro was just a Seta clone dead set in been with Naru with the tube vision of Harima. For this moment we all knew Keitaro wasn't going to change his mind no matter what and it all reduced to Naru finally accepting him. Which took an adventure at Todai ruins and every other single girl refusing Keitaro's invitation to enter together something that made it look like an acceptance out of pity in my book; besides she wouldn't even try to change her attitude still hitting him when he said something embarrassing or had an accident... surely a healthy relationship.

To be fair to the girls, he had rejected them in favor of Naru not long before when they were trying to force him to marry them, iirc. That was when she jumped out a blimp without a parachute to try to get away from him, I think. It was only at the Todai ruins that he went through that whole thing of getting rejected.

God that was stupid, it was basically the point where it looked like they were trying to tie up the relationships in one or two chapters.

 

[Crusader]

Some of the comments we've just generated seem to add more credence to the thought that the end pairing was the result of the ending in general being rushed. Whether it was because Akamatsu wanted to just finish it or the publisher pushed it is unclear, but the result is. We got an ending that left loose ends and disappointed readers.

That makes it hard to gauge the end for Negima right now, as it really seems that Akamatsu is having fun writing it. We've already had the revelation on the relationship (from a familial standpoint) between Asuna and Negi, but then there's the Library Trio and the forced nature their relationship with Negi displayed from the beginning. And that's just two outlooks. All we can hope for is that this particular manga doesn't get a rushed ending that leaves dissatisfied readers.

It could seem that way in a rush to finish Love Hina Akamatsu made a huge mess with his Keitaro/Naru end pairing and development that disappointed many, even some pro-Naru/Keitaro fans who found it hard to swallow that Keitaro "became" Seta, and that he made Naru too static than your average day static first girl. Even Hitoshi and Saati from Akamatsu's earlier work A.I. Love You seemed to have had a better ending in comparison.

We'll see what will happen to Negima when it comes to the ending.

 

[Mr. Lee]

Hmm...A new LH topic huh? Alright, I'll bite.

Could the LH ending been better? Absolutely. Without getting into my issues with Naru, which I spoke about in detail in the topic 'Why all the Naru hate?', I would definitely say that the relationship between Naru and Keitaro was both rushed AND forced, in both the manga and anime. True, to a degree, Keitaro did become sort of a Seta clone, but even that is a stretch, because Naru would NEVER hurt Seta or spew venom at him. When she accidently knocked him out during the beach play, not only did she apologize to him, but she said inwardly that she would back off for a while. Would she do that for Keitaro? I don't think so.

Sadly enough, any of the other girls would have been a better catch. Motoko grew the most out of everyone in the series, to the point where she even joked around with the others. She would've made a great wife for Keitaro. Kitsune would've as well if Akamatsu had more time to develop her character (Which he ironically admitted to at the end of the manga.) There's more to her than booze and money. Keitaro and Naru's relationship would've been dead in the water were it not for her. A fact that most fans and LH authors seem to forget. Shinobu, sadly enough, became just like Naru at the end of the manga. If that hadn't happened, a relationship would've been possible. I could go on with the others, but you see my point.

To put it in a nutshell, if a woman you just married calls you a pervert after a wardrobe malfunction (Despite the fact that you will be seeing that and more at your honeymoon.), and says that she wants to keep her maiden name and treat you like a stranger is a marriage destined for failure and a quick divorce. Naru, sadly enough, grew the least out of all of them, at least in my opinion. Not to compare too much, but if he made it a little more like Rumiko Takahashi's Maison Ikkoku, which is an older series by nearly 20 years, where virtually EVERY character grew and became better than they were at the start of the series in one way or another and was truly romantic, LH would've ended with little to no issues. Don't get me wrong, I like the series overall. But there will always be room for improvement.

Just goes to show one of my rules when I write stories, rushing romance leads to disaster, in stories and in real life. Though the fact that there is a LH game where you can choose who Keitaro ends up with sounds like win to me. Is it in America? I would like some details on it.

Ah well, at least Akamatsu is learning with Negima. Asuna is toned down greatly compared to the early parts of the series, where she nearly became a Naru clone. Though I do have some issues with the KonoSetsu pairing. It's rushed and forced to a degree. But like Crusader said, we'll just wait and see how it ends.

 

[Crusader]

Hmm...A new LH topic huh? Alright, I'll bite.

Could the LH ending been better? Absolutely. Without getting into my issues with Naru, which I spoke about in detail in the topic 'Why all the Naru hate?', I would definitely say that the relationship between Naru and Keitaro was both rushed AND forced, in both the manga and anime. True, to a degree, Keitaro did become sort of a Seta clone, but even that is a stretch, because Naru would NEVER hurt Seta or spew venom at him. When she accidently knocked him out during the beach play, not only did she apologize to him, but she said inwardly that she would back off for a while. Would she do that for Keitaro? I don't think so.

Sadly enough, any of the other girls would have been a better catch. Motoko grew the most out of everyone in the series, to the point where she even joked around with the others. She would've made a great wife for Keitaro. Kitsune would've as well if Akamatsu had more time to develop her character (Which he ironically admitted to at the end of the manga.) There's more to her than booze and money. Keitaro and Naru's relationship would've been dead in the water were it not for her. A fact that most fans and LH authors seem to forget. Shinobu, sadly enough, became just like Naru at the end of the manga. If that hadn't happened, a relationship would've been possible. I could go on with the others, but you see my point.

To put it in a nutshell, if a woman you just married calls you a pervert after a wardrobe malfunction (Despite the fact that you will be seeing that and more at your honeymoon.), and says that she wants to keep her maiden name and treat you like a stranger is a marriage destined for failure and a quick divorce. Naru, sadly enough, grew the least out of all of them, at least in my opinion. Not to compare too much, but if he made it a little more like Rumiko Takahashi's Maison Ikkoku, which is an older series by nearly 20 years, where virtually EVERY character grew and became better than they were at the start of the series in one way or another and was truly romantic, LH would've ended with little to no issues. Don't get me wrong, I like the series overall. But there will always be room for improvement.

Just goes to show one of my rules when I write stories, rushing romance leads to disaster, in stories and in real life. Though the fact that there is a LH game where you can choose who Keitaro ends up with sounds like win to me. Is it in America? I would like some details on it.

Ah well, at least Akamatsu is learning with Negima. Asuna is toned down greatly compared to the early parts of the series, where she nearly became a Naru clone. Though I do have some issues with the KonoSetsu pairing. It's rushed and forced to a degree. But like Crusader said, we'll just wait and see how it ends.

You do bring up some interesting points here, Mr. Lee, which reflects most of the.

Maybe he wasn't Seta enough for Naru to turn off her violent impulsiveness.

Ironically I thought Rumiko Takahashi's character Akane Tendo was bad until I found Naru Narusegawa who's clearly the worst character of the two and made me respect Akane Tendo in a way I never imagined before. At least Akane is willing to put her life on the line for others when things get rough, despite knowing that she's the weakest of the main martial artists. And Kagome Higurashi did sacrifice most of her private life and education to help Inu-Yasha and the rest of the Shard Seekers.

Well there have been people who've translated the GBA game Love Hina Advance into english in GBA ROM format. You could probably find the GBA emulator and the translated and patched Love Hina Advanced ROM, or you could ask people who have it to send it to you electronically.

Too bad the GBC games Love Hina Pocket and Love Hina Party haven't been translated as well since they can work with the GBA emulator.

And then you have the LH games for PS1, PS2 and Dreamcast. I really wish someone could port the two Dreamcast games into PC format and translate them into English.

He probably went and toned down Asuna to Saati's level, when he realized that he made Naru into a worse character than his older character Saati Namba from A.I. Love You, and seemed to realize that Asuna would be too much like Naru unless he toned her down a bit.

 

[FinalMax]

Don't forget that much of the characters in Negima are actually based on parts of previous characters. Asuna and Chisame are more or less two halves to Naru, but they were fleshed out more and have had more character growth. Nodoka is the exaggerated Shinobu clone. Kazumi has a lot of Mitsune's mischievous qualities. Akira got Motoko's basic character design while Setsuna got the swordsmanship. Ku Fei has Su's exuberance and ganguro look, and Chizuru has a wonderfully twisted version of Mutsumi. Then there's Takamichi in the rough position of Seta.

Not too familiar with Akamatsu's other work, so I can't extrapolate how they were parted out for Negima if at all.

 

[Crusader]

Not too familiar with Akamatsu's other work, so I can't extrapolate how they were parted out for Negima if at all.

You make some interesting points, FinalMax, and it seems like the characters in Love Hina return were based on the characters in A.I. Love You as well.

Here's a link.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/ai_ga_tomaranai/

 

[Crusader]

To be honest early on I started to compare Naru to the Ultimate Marvel version of Giant Man when it it comes to what readers see as abuse and unstable personalities.

The scene where Hank Pym sprayed Wasp with bugspray and viciously attacked her with ants using his Ant-Man helmet was probably one of the most chilling and shocking scenes I've read in the Ultimates.

 

[Patrick_Gleason]

Off Topic: Add to the fact that that was pretty much character-rape...

 

[Crusader]

Off Topic: Add to the fact that that was pretty much character-rape...

I've to agree on that, seeing that I never would've imagined that the Ultimate Marvel version of Henry Pym would've been depicted like that when I first looked up the Ultimates and when I compare him to his Earth 616 incarnation.

But when you brought up the term character-rape, it made me think for a while and consider that the same could be applied to what happened to Keitaro when Akamatsu turned him into a clone of Seta.

 

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Ultimate Marvel is like most attempts at becoming darker and edgier: It becomes laughably, horrifically bad. The writers can't seem to figure out the difference between real angst and wangst and insist on making nearly all super-powered individuals assholes or sexual deviants.

Admittedly, not all of Ultimate Marvel is like this but the majority sure as hell is.

As for Keitaro/Naru, well, I think I've made my feelings perfectly clear before: In the manga or the anime, Naru's character development is lackluster, and Keitaro's can be defined as "turning him into Seta Lite for Naru."

As said before, Negima! is most definitely proving Akamatsu's growth as a writer compared to his earlier works.