Harry Potter Adoption

Oni_kawaii

Well-Known Member
#26
Lord of Bones said:
According to your logic, what does that make the countless other families who fell to Voldemort's killing curse?
Red shirts
 

rukia8492

Well-Known Member
#27
Oni_kawaii said:
Lord of Bones said:
According to your logic, what does that make the countless other families who fell to Voldemort's killing curse?
Red shirts
bullet sponges
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
#28
blackrosekodachi said:
First, this is an intriguing concept. May I suggest that, once the effectiveness of Lucius' power play - because with the Malfoys, what else could it be but a power play? - is seen, other families, be they Dark, "Gray" or Light, will begin their own attempts to acquire... call them "allied cadet family", or perhaps clients, in the Patron/Client tradition of Imperial Rome. Eventually, there won't be more than a handful of unaligned Muggleborn attending Hogwarts.
That makes sense, but Lucius has about a ten year head start, probably a bit more before people, especially pure blood supremacists, realize that the Malfoy family is massively more powerful.

Then then is a minimum of 7 years before they can see the fruits of their own efforts, probably a bit more, so Lucius has a 20 year period before anyone else can really oppose him. For the diehards who think Muggles and muggleborn should be exterminated, it'll probably be much longer, if ever. That's a pretty big gap to play catch up with.

By moving towards the Grey/Light end o f the spectrum, Lucius will probably be able/need to make news allies. I doubt the Weasleys or the Longbottoms or similar families will want to align with the Malfoys without extreme extenuating circumstances, but alliances with some other families is within the realm of possibility. Now who would make for good alliance partnerships, without straining the bounds of plausibility?

Heck, with Dumbledore's redemption policy, he might even team up with the Malfoy clan. That could explain why Malfoy aligned graduates get the DADA position each year.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#29
Not everyone is so stupid that they have to see the result to figure out what's going to happen. He obviously decided that since he doesn't have enough allies he's going to make them from the material that's just lyin in the dumps. It's a basic military and political strategy.
 

MWkillkenny84

Well-Known Member
#30
Lord of Bones said:
According to your logic, what does that make the countless other families who fell to Voldemort's killing curse?
According to Oni_kawaii, red shirts.

IMHO, they has been only background-story cannon fodder, udes to make Voldyshort appear a Big Baddy.
And I use powerhouses like Palpatine, Queen Beryl, Jail Scaglietti, Naraku, Gemini Saga and Orochimaru as paragons for the term 'Big Baddy'.

You can not stop the Killing Curse?
AVOID IT!
If the mages are so fixated to use shields to block spell and not avoid attacks, they are only fools.
And if you can't avoid it, WHY you do not use an 'accio' to summon an object to shield you and make the curse hit it?
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#31
MWkillkenny84 said:
You can not stop the Killing Curse?
AVOID IT!
If the mages are so fixated to use shields to block spell and not avoid attacks, they are only fools.
And if you can't avoid it, WHY you do not use an 'accio' to summon an object to shield you and make the curse hit it?
Voldemort is the 'Big Bad' in the context of his own universe. Comparing him to other villains in the context/power levels of their own respective universes is ridiculous. By the standards of his own universe, Voldemort's essentially a Devil-figure.

As for the Avada Kedavra, Voldemort uses the spell when he wants to finish things. He's quite capable of casting the Cruciatus beforehand; someone who's just recovering from writhing in ungodly agony isn't going to be in his right mind to summon something. And what happens if Voldemort casts Fiendfyre? You're vastly underestimating Voldemort's capabilities and the fear he invokes.
 

MWkillkenny84

Well-Known Member
#32
My opinion on Voldemort is biased for two reasons:
1) I _continue_ to compare him to other series's villains.
2) I have read the Evil Overlord List. This ALONE make my opinions on the humanoid snake VERY biased.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#33
Dumbledore proved that you can stop the killing curse. You just put something in front of it that's not you.
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
#34
zeebee1 said:
Not everyone is so stupid that they have to see the result to figure out what's going to happen. He obviously decided that since he doesn't have enough allies he's going to make them from the material that's just lyin in the dumps. It's a basic military and political strategy.
Alright, so let's suppose that people catch on before the fruits of his labors come to pass. There are still a few things they need besides awareness.

-Money. Lucius is effectively sponsoring the muggleborn, and probably covers their books expenses, some trips, and similar things that cost money. While probably not prohibitively expensive for an individual, the costs add up as you recruit more and more.

-Connections. Unless you have connections, having loyal children isn't going to do much for you, since you won't be able to help them after graduation, and leaving them out in the cold isn't going to ingratiate them to you, no matter how helpful you were in school. While everyone has a few connections, Lucius has a lot more, or at least, extremely powerful ones.

-Knowledge. Lucius is a school governor, and has access to the Book of Hogwarts, so he can view the list of names of future students, and recruit them early. While others can still recruit, they have to wait until they first appear in the magical world, which would leave them with the dregs.

-I would also say that Lucius would be smart enough to hide his activities, or at least try to. While it would eventually come out, he could probably hide it for a year or two at least, since there would be relatively few children to be noticed, and it could be passed off as happenstance, rather than an extensive plan.



I'd say Lucius still has at least two years before people take notice if he's careful, four years if he's extremely careful and people don't notice until they show up at Hogwarts. At that point, the more paranoid or future thinking wizards might start emulating him, but given to bigotry we've seen, I don't think that they would lower themselves to try it.

Once Lucius starts making power plays, his children befriending Harry Potter, his children getting the DADA post and similar jobs, THEN people will start emulating full swing, assuming there aren't other factors that would prevent them from doing so, such as bigotry or being unable to afford the additional expenses, but as I said, that would still take years to reach the same level as Lucius's recruitment.


Hm... would Ron still be Harry's friend? By the time they go to Hogwarts, it will be pretty obvious that there are ulterior motives, and the Weasleys and Malfoys don't get along. It could easily prevent Harry from forming a friendship with him if he insults Hermione, and there definitely won't be a Golden Trio since Hermione and Ron will already have plenty of family animosity preventing them from forming bonds. After having a talk with Sirius about the workings of politics, Harry will definitely branch out his friendships, but what about before then? Who would Harry's friends be?
 

MWkillkenny84

Well-Known Member
#35
zerohour said:
I'd say Lucius still has at least two years before people take notice if he's careful, four years if he's extremely careful and people don't notice until they show up at Hogwarts.? At that point, the more paranoid or future thinking wizards might start emulating him, but given to bigotry we've seen, I don't think that they would lower themselves to try it.
Make them five: this is the HP!Magical Britain, their common sense is worse than the one of some political figures here in Italy.

zerohour said:
Hm... would Ron still be Harry's friend?? By the time they go to Hogwarts, it will be pretty obvious that there are ulterior motives, and the Weasleys and Malfoys don't get along.? It could easily prevent Harry from forming a friendship with him if he insults Hermione, and there definitely won't be a Golden Trio since Hermione and Ron will already have plenty of family animosity preventing them from forming bonds.? After having a talk with Sirius about the workings of politics, Harry will definitely branch out his friendships, but what about before then?? Who would Harry's friends be?
No, I can't see the canonical Golden Trio to come alive in this situation: TOO MUCH bad blood between the Weasleys and the Malfoys (adopted or not).
A Golden trio made by Harry, Hermione and another student? Yes.
Especially Luna Lovegood in the second year (or even the first, if she has obtained an early acceptance for going to Hogwarts).
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#36
MWkillkenny84 said:
You can not stop the Killing Curse?
AVOID IT!
If the mages are so fixated to use shields to block spell and not avoid attacks, they are only fools.
And if you can't avoid it, WHY you do not use an 'accio' to summon an object to shield you and make the curse hit it?
Because exercise is a muggle thing. Also, most HP magic-users are canonically incompetent. It is very telling that Gred & Forge's Shield Hats were very popular among the Aurors, who mostly couldn't cast a proper shield charm on their own. These are the police, and they lack a basic defensive skill taught to schoolchildren.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#37
It's worse than that. The aurors aren't just the police. They are the military.
 

Lady Salazar

Well-Known Member
#38
Well, honestly, if I were an Auror I'd like having a Shield Hat too, even if I could cast a shield spell just fine. There's something to be said for not having to bother with it in a firefight.

Just because you can duck behind a barrier, you don't forego the bulletproof vest, yanno?
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#39
Lady Salazar said:
Well, honestly, if I were an Auror I'd like having a Shield Hat too, even if I could cast a shield spell just fine.? There's something to be said for not having to bother with it in a firefight.?

Just because you can duck behind a barrier, you don't forego the bulletproof vest, yanno?
If that were the case, I would find it perfectly reasonable. The sources I read, though (as I don't think I read that part of the book), say that the reason is Aurors not being good with shield charms, rather than having common sense backups.

EDIT: Turns out my sources were probably wrong, or exaggerating, if the HP Lexicon's Shield Hat entry is to be believed:
Hat, Shield
The Shield Hat was invented by Fred and George Weasley. It looks like an ordinary hat but functions as a Shield Charm, protecting the wearer against minor to moderate hexes and jinxes (HBP6).

á á *á á á The twins intended this as a joke item ("challenge your mate to jinx you while wearing it"), not knowing that many people can't perform a decent Shield Charm. The Ministry of Magic ordered 500 of them for all its support staff (HBP6)
I rather hope Aurors don't count as support staff.

It's interesting that F & G didn't know 'that many people can't perform a decent Shield Charm'. Its also interesting that an item designed to protect against 'minor to moderate hexes and jinxes' was considered a reasonable substitute, given that DEs are more inclined to torture or kill you, than to tie your shoes together.
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
#40
Hm... trying to piece together a good introduction to what set Lucius on this path. Do you guys think it's decent justification towards his path, provided that it is further expanded upon, or if I should start it over. Please be as explanatory as possible, so i can do a better job with this. Of course, if any of you guys would like to write up an alternative introduction, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

--- --- --- --- ---

Lucius Malfoy was an intelligent man, a true scion of Slytherin. It was that intelligence that enabled him to win the respect of the Blacks, and the hand of Narcissa. It was that intelligence that earned him a spot at the Dark Lord's right hand.

And so, when the Dark Lord fell to a child, Lucius Malfoy turned to his intelligence. There had to be a reason why the leader of the purebloods could be slain by a halfblood. It was that desperate need to know why that led to Lucius spending hours pouring over spellbooks, journals, and historical documents. For days, he allowed himself to be consumed by the quest, until finally he had his answer, though it was not the one he sought.

"It can't be." Lucius muttered to himself, unable to bring himself to believe the evidence before him. Lord Voldemort, the most powerful pureblood in the world, was in reality, Tom Marvolo Riddle, a halfblood. True, he was the heir of Slyterin as he claimed, but not through one of the direct lines, but through the Gaunts, an outcast family. The last of their line tainted by an insane witch's desire for a muggle man.

Lucius hurled his books to the floor in a fit of rage. He, and all the other purebloods had been completely taken in by his promises, by his lies. They had been nothing more than puppets before him. If purebloods could be deceeved by a mere halfblood, then what was the point of their perspective of superiority? If they could be so easily duped and subdued, then were they really any better?

Consumed by darkness and self loathing, Lucius Malfoy made a vow. A vow not to his lord and master, not to the idea o purity, but to power. He no longer cared about the means, only the ends. Whatever he did, he would never feel so weak and helpless as he did at this moment.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#41
It could be expanded on. I assumed he'd realize that being a pureblood didn't give him the advantage in intelligence after being fooled. And only a single infusion of muggle blood turned Voldemort from a Gaunt into the heir of Slytherin.
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
#42
Quick question: Are their any examples, both in RL and popular literature, where Sponsorship or something similar is used? The way it's set up, Lucius is open to pretty much anything, but I think that with his natural inclinations, he would probably become the new Voldie or focus on his/Draco's personal power, rather than expanding the family through vassals. Having an example, either on his quest to attain power, or reading abotu it during downtime, is necessary to set him on the intended path.
 

Tentrees

Well-Known Member
#43
zerohour said:
Quick question: Are their any examples, both in RL and popular literature, where Sponsorship or something similar is used? The way it's set up, Lucius is open to pretty much anything, but I think that with his natural inclinations, he would probably become the new Voldie or focus on his/Draco's personal power, rather than expanding the family through vassals. Having an example, either on his quest to attain power, or reading abotu it during downtime, is necessary to set him on the intended path.
Nearest I can think of is the Roman Client/Patron relationships.

Lucius may use the tension of not naming an heir for the purpose of galvanizing Draco an dhis 'children' but have you also considered a softer approach?

After his revalations and vow He decides to go ahead and build his faction up. Not the purebloods who have been duped (but that knowledge can be used to pry away support for any remaining closeted die hards) and refuse to change. But taking a good soul serching look at their world and see its needs...

Potions masters
Teachers of all stripes
Healers
Even the enchanters who ply, shudder, a trade

Even if a child is not the most cunning politically they can be os use. Either in crafting spells, research or in one of the various crafting arts.

Helping set them up is what a good Patron does. That he is also repaid and gets acut of the business is just good business.

Love the thought of Harry thinking of himself as chum in a sea full of sharks.

And I can see Lucius pushing that restoration act to not only protect himself and his family from the machinations of the other factions when they see the power that his 'children' are going to bring him and their clan. That and he could be wanting to align with Dumbledores faction and the polygamous aspect allows everyone a bite of the chum that is Harry Potter.
 

MWkillkenny84

Well-Known Member
#44
zerohour said:
Lucius hurled his books to the floor in a fit of rage. He, and all the other purebloods had been completely taken in by his promises, by his lies. They had been nothing more than puppets before him. If purebloods could be deceeved by a mere halfblood, then what was the point of their perspective of superiority? If they could be so easily duped and subdued, then were they really any better?
Can I suggest you to add the term 'bastard' (into his LITERALLY meaning, as "illegitimate child/son of an unmarried couple"), who, for an old-belief based society as the pureblood one, is an insulte who I belive it can even be worse as mudblood?

Yes, good scene of starting the story and the 'change' of Lucius.
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
#45
Lucius isn't pushing the political angle on all of them. Those who are most involved/interested in the political power are the first three years of children he recruited, and Harry's year, the year before Harry, and the year after Harry.

The first few kids are obvious, since they have the most experience/skill, and those around Harry also have a shot, because Harry's the boy who lived, and being his buddy/girlfriend can get a lot of political clout.


@Kenny: Thanks for the suggestion. I'll throw that in when I get around to writing the next bit.
 

simonbob

Well-Known Member
#46
Don't tell me you've never heard of Corprate Sponsership?

Companys pay for people to go to Uni all the time. So do Gov Organisations, churches, and many other groups.

Most expect a certain amount back, in one way or another.
 

Finbar

Well-Known Member
#47
I can see Lucius going about this in a slightly different manner.

First, modified Roman Patronage system seems to work. Muggle families with a muggleborn child or Halfblood families where one parent is a Muggle become Clients of the Malfoys. The advantages it gives the families are huge as the children get to grow up in an environment where they are taught Wizarding culture, without being seperated from their Birth families

When the Child is set to enter the workforce, they have the Malfoys as Patrons. This means they are held back less and have more opportunities. It also allows for networking between the Clients. A sort of closed community if done right, where clients will go to other clients first for goods and services.

From Lucius' point of view this gives him more tools to use. If he has 10 clients working all over the Ministry, then he can get access to what they know. They wont be asked to break laws, but will look favourably upon him.

Then, he allows some information to slip out. That he can name any Client as his Heir with no penalties. Because they are 'his', it is as if he adopted them. He is never their Father, but they are his child, at least from a legal point of view.

The thing is, Draco might not realise this until it is hit over his head. Narcissa is adressed as Mother-Narcissa, Lucius is Father-Lucius and if he starts early, say 5 years after Voldemort goes splat, and has maybe 2 or 3 Clients per year. He is only taking the best and brightest, then by the time Harry goes to Hogwarts, thats 10-15 clients and their families.

Not all of them will be in School however, maybe half will have graduated and gone to work. Lets say he has 4 in the Ministry. The Wizarding world gets to see these hard working, politically aware youngsters who have Drive and Ambition. They are also backed by the largest philanthropist around, who gives to the right charities, who have paid for his clients to go to Hogwarts and is a horrible victim of Voldemort and is working to help society.

Among the clients, those who want to be the Malfoy Heir, there is a ruthless, cutthroat tension, not to cut each other down, as that will have negative long term effects, but rather, to out-perform each other. After all, Father-Lucius only accepts the Best and only the Best of the Best will inherit his empire.

Cue Harry, with no idea, entering Hogwarts.

For extra Lulz, Lucius wants to cut back on Fudge's power, to allow a destabilisation of the government, to allow his own minions to rise more quickly. He also needs to have Dumbledore's image pruned back a bit. So, in the process of looking for ideas, he stumbles across Sirius Black. Who never had a trial.

Enter Social Rights Activist Crusader Lucius! The Tireless defender of the downtrodden. Sirius Black is freed and owes Malfoy. Sirius gets to take Harry for maybe a Year, as we cant have the Boy-Who-Lived living outside of Wizarding society, let alone uneducated about the world. Possibly Lucius pushes for Ministry issued Wolfsbane, here those who take it and are productive members of society arent penalised against for their curse. Remus now owes Lucius, Narcissa has some family who are respectable back and most people are happy

This means that Harry goes to Hogwarts more socially aware, who knows his place in society, without getting a huge ego, who knows and is friends with some of the Clients and Dumbledore is left wondering what the hell just happened. Not to mention, Lucius may well have the remaining true marauders at least partialy onside.

Cheers

Finbar
 

Rakhasa

Well-Known Member
#48
I love the idea, but you must (unfortunately) put down the DADA professor. If he starts inmediately -and he would need some time to unearth Volmemort's hidden ancestry- he has 11 years before Harry's second year. As he is adopting muggleborns before Howarts, the teacher should be 21 at most -not impossible, but rather young still. And that's if he adopts a 10 year old, wich goes against his idea (moulding a muggleborn child into a proper pureblood). He would choose children about 6 -old enough to see if they are unusually intellignet, not too old to turr into proper wizards. That means his eldest would be on his last year when Harry (and Draco!) start Howarts.
 

Tentrees

Well-Known Member
#49
Finbar said:
I can see Lucius going about this in a slightly different manner.

First, modified Roman Patronage system seems to work. Muggle families with a muggleborn child or Halfblood families where one parent is a Muggle become Clients of the Malfoys. The advantages it gives the families are huge as the children get to grow up in an environment where they are taught Wizarding culture, without being seperated from their Birth families

When the Child is set to enter the workforce, they have the Malfoys as Patrons. This means they are held back less and have more opportunities. It also allows for networking between the Clients. A sort of closed community if done right, where clients will go to other clients first for goods and services.

From Lucius' point of view this gives him more tools to use. If he has 10 clients working all over the Ministry, then he can get access to what they know. They wont be asked to break laws, but will look favourably upon him.

Then, he allows some information to slip out. That he can name any Client as his Heir with no penalties. Because they are 'his', it is as if he adopted them. He is never their Father, but they are his child, at least from a legal point of view.

The thing is, Draco might not realise this until it is hit over his head. Narcissa is adressed as Mother-Narcissa, Lucius is Father-Lucius and if he starts early, say 5 years after Voldemort goes splat, and has maybe 2 or 3 Clients per year. He is only taking the best and brightest, then by the time Harry goes to Hogwarts, thats 10-15 clients and their families.

Not all of them will be in School however, maybe half will have graduated and gone to work. Lets say he has 4 in the Ministry. The Wizarding world gets to see these hard working, politically aware youngsters who have Drive and Ambition. They are also backed by the largest philanthropist around, who gives to the right charities, who have paid for his clients to go to Hogwarts and is a horrible victim of Voldemort and is working to help society.

Among the clients, those who want to be the Malfoy Heir, there is a ruthless, cutthroat tension, not to cut each other down, as that will have negative long term effects, but rather, to out-perform each other. After all, Father-Lucius only accepts the Best and only the Best of the Best will inherit his empire.

Cue Harry, with no idea, entering Hogwarts.

For extra Lulz, Lucius wants to cut back on Fudge's power, to allow a destabilisation of the government, to allow his own minions to rise more quickly. He also needs to have Dumbledore's image pruned back a bit. So, in the process of looking for ideas, he stumbles across Sirius Black. Who never had a trial.

Enter Social Rights Activist Crusader Lucius! The Tireless defender of the downtrodden. Sirius Black is freed and owes Malfoy. Sirius gets to take Harry for maybe a Year, as we cant have the Boy-Who-Lived living outside of Wizarding society, let alone uneducated about the world. Possibly Lucius pushes for Ministry issued Wolfsbane, here those who take it and are productive members of society arent penalised against for their curse. Remus now owes Lucius, Narcissa has some family who are respectable back and most people are happy

This means that Harry goes to Hogwarts more socially aware, who knows his place in society, without getting a huge ego, who knows and is friends with some of the Clients and Dumbledore is left wondering what the hell just happened. Not to mention, Lucius may well have the remaining true marauders at least partialy onside.

Cheers

Finbar
Works better if Malfoy had become aware of Riddles parantage and true goals in the last few weeks of the war. Something Riddle had said tipped him off that he might not be as he said or he came across a report being made up by someohne else in a raid on a home and took the information from their.

The was a fic awhile back were Draco had an older sister who was killed by Voldiemort as an incentive to Lucious to focus on his Death Eatrer tasks. This backfire after he finds the report. Maybe there is an tattached report detailing how evry muggleborn out there has at least one magical ancestor even if its at ten generations or better and that the goblins traing magics can link them to sequestered vaults that both sides have been looking to seize to fund the war. These three events would be wenough to change anyones world view.

post Voldiemorts fall he shares this information with a few of the Death Eaters whom he thinks can learn to change. Especially the very smart well connected ones. Show them how Riddle played them and what his true goals seeemed to be. Then he troots out his plan for Patron Client. It wont be about direct Pureblood Rule but rule of various interconected clans whose goal is to perserve magic and their society from the radical factions in both the Dark and the Light. The client patron links could start slowly. Not just with the best and brightest but also with the ones with good grades but no money for NEWTS or a apprenticeship.

This could be the wedge he needs to pry Snape awya from Dumbledore and in the process find out about Riddles Horcruxs. Especially if he has already destroyed the diary in his fit of rage and te fragments release made him research what it had been and fill him with the dread of more. And that Riddles return could jeapordize the nascient idea of Patron/Client he wants to work up to protect his family.


Just some ideas
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#50
Snape wouldn't join with Malfoy unless Malfoy was seen as the other side. Because unlike Malfoy Snape knows that Voldemort will return. And Snape can't look after himself unless he's on both sides. And Malfoy will have no conceivable way to stop Voldemort when he comes back.
 
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