Anyone realize Fanfiction is illegal?
- Thread starter Pridefall
- Start date
I thought that if it is stated by the author he doesnt own anything, it wouldn't make it that bad? I mean, give me a break, anyone heard of freedom of speech? If I write a story and simply mention that should have been the right way, then it is my RIGHT to publish it as long as I don't make any money.
I don't know about you, but as long as it doesnt say clearly that it illegal, i don't they authors can do much against it.
Copying/cracking games is ALSO illegal, but it happens nevertheless.
MODS should also be illegal if you go by this, since they are fictions and self made creations by the fans of said game.
This is only my opinion though.
Kenny
I don't know about you, but as long as it doesnt say clearly that it illegal, i don't they authors can do much against it.
Copying/cracking games is ALSO illegal, but it happens nevertheless.
MODS should also be illegal if you go by this, since they are fictions and self made creations by the fans of said game.
This is only my opinion though.
Kenny
The computer game-making industry doesn't care mods or they want these mods made to expand their advertising. I forgot the exact reasonings, but only a very few companies have made a ruckus about modding computer games.
Mods for console games on the other hand... I'm not touching that subject. Not after what Team Ninja did to all those that downloaded and made mods for DOA series.
Mods for console games on the other hand... I'm not touching that subject. Not after what Team Ninja did to all those that downloaded and made mods for DOA series.
I have more than a passing intrest in this topic
Regarding (due to treaties, such as Berne) Fanfiction, fanworks, fantranslations
Japanese works are covered by JAPANESE written laws AND CASE (or custom) law.
This is mostly due to Berne. (Copywrite and protections thereforth come from one of two sources, land of first copywrite (where the copywrite is first attained) OR country of orgin in a case of works copywrited in two nations or more at the same time( defined as the same day the application is received.))
1. Fantranslations ARE legal until such time as a US company buys the rights.
ONCE that company does (and this is where the CD's and lawsuits HAVE come in)
then they're illegal to distrubute. NOT illegal to posses.
(Japanese law, standards of translation laws, mostly international elements)
2. Fanfiction(or any other fanwork) of Japanese works IS _LEGAL_ (IF the work's conutry of Orgin is Japan, that is) EVEN IF you make SOME money (there's a limit, but it's ... mmm... a area, more than a straight line) Otherwise, how in hell would the companies find their new Manga kes without hiring people to sort though slush piles XD. (Pretty much the way it works, most of your top flight mangakes, did dojins first)
Note above: This applies ONLY to Japanese works
US (for US Works) law's a BIT more clear, acutally.
Fanfiction IS illegal. Period. It's however a 'holder enforce' law.
meaning, UNLESS the author (or creator, or creators' LEGAL agent for enforcing the copywrite) chooses to tell you no... nothign will happen to you.
MOST (read even corprations) holders don't enforce the law, UNLESS A. they're anal, or object to certain things, or B. the Lackey case.
(FF writer sent her a story. Story had simliar elements to a book that came out in a short period later, FF writer sued. She won, since he(or she) had no standing, but it DID make her dislike fanfiction.
Several other writers have simliar views PRESICELY becasue of this.
Some have faith, though. (David Weber follows a don't show, I don't know rule, Ringo and Flint follow: "Gimme, I wanna read...")
Why don't more US companies enforce the law? A. they can only sue for damages.
if no money's being made, no damage is the theory, so it's a costly effort with little gain. B. they got to find it, and honestly, it's not worth their time. C. It's also good avdersting, in a way.
SOME Writers and Compaines DO, though, even for fiction. Be warned. RIAA as we all know takes protection to silly levels, and the MPAA isn't far behind. TV... not as much, but it wouldn't suprise me if there ARE CD's and or suits on their way over fanfiction or other fanworks.
*shrugs* Just be aware. AND DON'T FOR THE LOVE OF @#$@#$@# GOD, sue a creator of the universe you're playing in.
Don't be a noob, chums.
A.
Regarding (due to treaties, such as Berne) Fanfiction, fanworks, fantranslations
Japanese works are covered by JAPANESE written laws AND CASE (or custom) law.
This is mostly due to Berne. (Copywrite and protections thereforth come from one of two sources, land of first copywrite (where the copywrite is first attained) OR country of orgin in a case of works copywrited in two nations or more at the same time( defined as the same day the application is received.))
1. Fantranslations ARE legal until such time as a US company buys the rights.
ONCE that company does (and this is where the CD's and lawsuits HAVE come in)
then they're illegal to distrubute. NOT illegal to posses.
(Japanese law, standards of translation laws, mostly international elements)
2. Fanfiction(or any other fanwork) of Japanese works IS _LEGAL_ (IF the work's conutry of Orgin is Japan, that is) EVEN IF you make SOME money (there's a limit, but it's ... mmm... a area, more than a straight line) Otherwise, how in hell would the companies find their new Manga kes without hiring people to sort though slush piles XD. (Pretty much the way it works, most of your top flight mangakes, did dojins first)
Note above: This applies ONLY to Japanese works
US (for US Works) law's a BIT more clear, acutally.
Fanfiction IS illegal. Period. It's however a 'holder enforce' law.
meaning, UNLESS the author (or creator, or creators' LEGAL agent for enforcing the copywrite) chooses to tell you no... nothign will happen to you.
MOST (read even corprations) holders don't enforce the law, UNLESS A. they're anal, or object to certain things, or B. the Lackey case.
(FF writer sent her a story. Story had simliar elements to a book that came out in a short period later, FF writer sued. She won, since he(or she) had no standing, but it DID make her dislike fanfiction.
Several other writers have simliar views PRESICELY becasue of this.
Some have faith, though. (David Weber follows a don't show, I don't know rule, Ringo and Flint follow: "Gimme, I wanna read...")
Why don't more US companies enforce the law? A. they can only sue for damages.
if no money's being made, no damage is the theory, so it's a costly effort with little gain. B. they got to find it, and honestly, it's not worth their time. C. It's also good avdersting, in a way.
SOME Writers and Compaines DO, though, even for fiction. Be warned. RIAA as we all know takes protection to silly levels, and the MPAA isn't far behind. TV... not as much, but it wouldn't suprise me if there ARE CD's and or suits on their way over fanfiction or other fanworks.
*shrugs* Just be aware. AND DON'T FOR THE LOVE OF @#$@#$@# GOD, sue a creator of the universe you're playing in.
Don't be a noob, chums.
A.
I thought it was Marion Zimmer Bradley, not Mercedes Lackey. From that, the various authors in that group (including Lackey) started following their policy.
I suppose it would beg the question to get into the "what makes a law right/wrong" and such too, but... well, what was the point the OP was trying to make?
I suppose it would beg the question to get into the "what makes a law right/wrong" and such too, but... well, what was the point the OP was trying to make?
I don't quite know how it is in other countries, though I do know that (at least in practice) Japan is quite friendly to fan-works. If it wasn't, Comiket wouldn't be such a huge event.
I do know, however, that fanfiction - and unlicensed fanworks, in general - are illegal in the US. That said, the only time the law is enforced is if the rights holder (or one of their ilk) chooses to take issue with it.
For a classic example of the author who hates fanfiction, Anne McCaffrey - author of the Dragonwriters of Pern series, and its spinoffs - is particularly (pardon the pun) draconian about said use of her works. She has repeatedly enforced her hold on her property, does not allow fanfiction of her work, and will go to court over it. The only fan-project that met with her approval was a MUD way back when, which McCaffrey moderated. I'm not sure if it stayed up or not.
Disney has been the biggest antagonist of the Fair Use clause, and of copyright infringement in general. I probably don't need to go further.
Marvel Comics has been rather "dont ask, don't tell" about fanfiction and fanart, with the exception that they (reportedly) will crack down on pornographic depictions of their works.
As for the fansub community, well, the industry in general is pretty hands-off so long as the subbers stop distributing what's been licensed. The popularity of a series in the fansub community is often seen as an indicator of how well the series will sell in the US, so they tend to target those for licensing. "Free market research", as has been said already.
At times, if the series is netting a fair amount of income, the licensors might look the other way at continued distribution of the goods. This is the exception, rather than the rule, and many sub groups (dare I say most of them) have been known to be honorable about things and cease distribution of licensed series without being told to by the licensors.
Ultimately, yes, fanfiction etc. is illegal, but as long as certain pseudo-ethics are followed, it's not likely that a fanfiction author will be in any trouble.
I do know, however, that fanfiction - and unlicensed fanworks, in general - are illegal in the US. That said, the only time the law is enforced is if the rights holder (or one of their ilk) chooses to take issue with it.
For a classic example of the author who hates fanfiction, Anne McCaffrey - author of the Dragonwriters of Pern series, and its spinoffs - is particularly (pardon the pun) draconian about said use of her works. She has repeatedly enforced her hold on her property, does not allow fanfiction of her work, and will go to court over it. The only fan-project that met with her approval was a MUD way back when, which McCaffrey moderated. I'm not sure if it stayed up or not.
Disney has been the biggest antagonist of the Fair Use clause, and of copyright infringement in general. I probably don't need to go further.
Marvel Comics has been rather "dont ask, don't tell" about fanfiction and fanart, with the exception that they (reportedly) will crack down on pornographic depictions of their works.
As for the fansub community, well, the industry in general is pretty hands-off so long as the subbers stop distributing what's been licensed. The popularity of a series in the fansub community is often seen as an indicator of how well the series will sell in the US, so they tend to target those for licensing. "Free market research", as has been said already.
At times, if the series is netting a fair amount of income, the licensors might look the other way at continued distribution of the goods. This is the exception, rather than the rule, and many sub groups (dare I say most of them) have been known to be honorable about things and cease distribution of licensed series without being told to by the licensors.
Ultimately, yes, fanfiction etc. is illegal, but as long as certain pseudo-ethics are followed, it's not likely that a fanfiction author will be in any trouble.
No, Tor. NOt -quite- true.
See my comment on how copywrite law works.
SINCE Berne, the CONTROLLING law is the nation of orgin (or first copywrite) US law ONLY Protects works formed in the US. Even if mutual copywrites are attained.
Japan _written_ law is very much simliar ot the US. However, it's NEVER enforced, and custom law now states it's legal.
(however... I wouldn't push it TOO far chums. What's legal for japanese, and in Japan, courts might say otherwise overseas or for 'gaijin'.)
US law is far more complex and while there IS the Fair use and Disney ISN'T agasint it PER say, they are agasint some aspects it's been expanded to (though to the best of my knowledge, Diseny does NOT target fanworks, outside hentai, and even then I don't recall them doing so)
McCaffeny now allows LIMITED fanfiction. (see her personal website) It was Lackey, or so I'm informed (I thought it was Bradely myself, intinally) However, I'd note Bradely was where she started. (I still could be wrong. I've heard several stories, btw) I THINK Lackey now allows fanfiction, but very restrictive as well.
BTW: Regarding Fair use: Fanfiction IS NOT fair use. No ifs ands or buts in US law. Period. However, as noted above it's a 'holder enforce' via tort, not criminal.
And given as noted before, it's only for damages (often defined as the amount earned by the 'work' and punative damages...) judges are loath to do anything more than court costs and enforcing the previous CD.
Fair use is defined pretty much to: Use in schoaltisc works, or providing to the disabled, and has grown to allow for VHS copies of TV shows you missed, or like. That's it. Copying off the Radio isn't fair use, btw(legally, in pratice, how theyd' catch you?) (I'd love to see someone try to defend themselves in court saying they turned fanfiction in for class. I'm not sure a judge WOULDN'T bust a gut laughing.)
It's not the fact that money may or may not be invovled. (Fanfiction net is VERY gray, and as a judge, I'd be inclinded to say a suit agasint them HAS merit.
It does averdisting, and earns money that way. To be honest, a lawsuit has merit for more than a CD/court costs, but... it gets fun)
It's not supposed to happen LEGALLY. PART of the current reasoning is the Lakcey case, btw. It basically boils down to, it's their sandbox, they get to play, and if you do play, they can kick sand in your face and say leave. (And no, I'm not saying it'd be WRONG for them to do so, nor right. I'm netrual)
It's also more complex, as in AUTHORS (defined by the acutal name on cover) are the holders of the copywrite for BOOKS. Comicbooks/graphic novels, it's the company, and for all broadcast media it's the corpration that distrbuted it.
Werid, weird weird law. (Oh, btw. Most authors don't MIND fanfiction, and even a few who have to offically 'deny' it, LIKE it, but fear the lawsuits. (David weber, anyone?) PUBLISHERS... oddly enough seem to dislike it to a degree, but others love it. Toss up)
Also; Addedum to the 'no monearty damage' rule. THERE is something called "lowering the vaule" or deperation via even items done for no profit. Several authors (and I THINK Disney is one, on occasion) have used this to nail fanworks of a perverted nature.
There IS an exception that gets you _OUT_ of trouble, to the suit about posseing illegal copies. There IS no exception for fanfiction, (though legally they can't stop you from acutally WRITING it, but they CAN stop you from distrubiting it.) However, NO court would rule agasint you without the company attempting a CD order first (and I'm surpised that Lackey hasn't sent one to Fanfiction.net yet...)
If you made a GOOD faith effort to aquire the material legally, and it was unavablie. (Which means, for pratical effects, it's for out of print or production works ONLY) Side note: Oddly enough, it DOESN'T require you to haunt used stores.
Not -expensive-. *shrugs*
... okay, I"M really needing beddie bye...
A.
See my comment on how copywrite law works.
SINCE Berne, the CONTROLLING law is the nation of orgin (or first copywrite) US law ONLY Protects works formed in the US. Even if mutual copywrites are attained.
Japan _written_ law is very much simliar ot the US. However, it's NEVER enforced, and custom law now states it's legal.
(however... I wouldn't push it TOO far chums. What's legal for japanese, and in Japan, courts might say otherwise overseas or for 'gaijin'.)
US law is far more complex and while there IS the Fair use and Disney ISN'T agasint it PER say, they are agasint some aspects it's been expanded to (though to the best of my knowledge, Diseny does NOT target fanworks, outside hentai, and even then I don't recall them doing so)
McCaffeny now allows LIMITED fanfiction. (see her personal website) It was Lackey, or so I'm informed (I thought it was Bradely myself, intinally) However, I'd note Bradely was where she started. (I still could be wrong. I've heard several stories, btw) I THINK Lackey now allows fanfiction, but very restrictive as well.
BTW: Regarding Fair use: Fanfiction IS NOT fair use. No ifs ands or buts in US law. Period. However, as noted above it's a 'holder enforce' via tort, not criminal.
And given as noted before, it's only for damages (often defined as the amount earned by the 'work' and punative damages...) judges are loath to do anything more than court costs and enforcing the previous CD.
Fair use is defined pretty much to: Use in schoaltisc works, or providing to the disabled, and has grown to allow for VHS copies of TV shows you missed, or like. That's it. Copying off the Radio isn't fair use, btw(legally, in pratice, how theyd' catch you?) (I'd love to see someone try to defend themselves in court saying they turned fanfiction in for class. I'm not sure a judge WOULDN'T bust a gut laughing.)
It's not the fact that money may or may not be invovled. (Fanfiction net is VERY gray, and as a judge, I'd be inclinded to say a suit agasint them HAS merit.
It does averdisting, and earns money that way. To be honest, a lawsuit has merit for more than a CD/court costs, but... it gets fun)
It's not supposed to happen LEGALLY. PART of the current reasoning is the Lakcey case, btw. It basically boils down to, it's their sandbox, they get to play, and if you do play, they can kick sand in your face and say leave. (And no, I'm not saying it'd be WRONG for them to do so, nor right. I'm netrual)
It's also more complex, as in AUTHORS (defined by the acutal name on cover) are the holders of the copywrite for BOOKS. Comicbooks/graphic novels, it's the company, and for all broadcast media it's the corpration that distrbuted it.
Werid, weird weird law. (Oh, btw. Most authors don't MIND fanfiction, and even a few who have to offically 'deny' it, LIKE it, but fear the lawsuits. (David weber, anyone?) PUBLISHERS... oddly enough seem to dislike it to a degree, but others love it. Toss up)
Also; Addedum to the 'no monearty damage' rule. THERE is something called "lowering the vaule" or deperation via even items done for no profit. Several authors (and I THINK Disney is one, on occasion) have used this to nail fanworks of a perverted nature.
There IS an exception that gets you _OUT_ of trouble, to the suit about posseing illegal copies. There IS no exception for fanfiction, (though legally they can't stop you from acutally WRITING it, but they CAN stop you from distrubiting it.) However, NO court would rule agasint you without the company attempting a CD order first (and I'm surpised that Lackey hasn't sent one to Fanfiction.net yet...)
If you made a GOOD faith effort to aquire the material legally, and it was unavablie. (Which means, for pratical effects, it's for out of print or production works ONLY) Side note: Oddly enough, it DOESN'T require you to haunt used stores.
Not -expensive-. *shrugs*
... okay, I"M really needing beddie bye...
A.
First, I'd like to say something.
Who gives a fuck? I don't.
Second, filing a lawsuit on something on the internet is impractical in the extreme. First, they have to hire someone to find out who you are. Tracking your IP address is not that difficult I understand, but narrowing it down to a physical location I'd imagine is a bit more difficult. I use a wireless modem for my internet, through my cell-phone company, so they'd probably find that first. Next, they'd have to talk to the company to get my name and address, which might take a considerable amount of haggling and ring-around-the-rosie before they get it, if the company gives it to them at all.
So they've found me. It's taken quite a bit of money, time, and effort already. Now they have to issue a C&D order before the court will accept the annoying case. If I accept, they can't do diddly squat to me. If I ignore it, they file a lawsuit. I find a lawyer and file a countersuit because of attempted invasion of privacy by the hacker that tracked me down. Not sure if that would fly, but it'd be one hell of a way to stall and annoy the piss out of them. Next, I reveal that the law itself is unconstitutional. Though we don't follow this as we should, the constitution states this somewhere within: "We realize that though it is a free country we desire, anarchy is not a solution. Therefore we must make laws. To be as free as we can, the only laws that should be made are those which deny a man's rights to take away that of another." Not that it would necessarily reach the Supreme Court to be declared as such, being a minor thing anyhow, but it could make them sweat and possibly even withdraw. In any case, we'd be arguing about it for months. If they didn't give up in disgust and eventually won, I'd take it all down, and probably get fined a hefty amount. I somehow doubt jail time is involved. Can you imagine telling the other inmates you got put in for writing a silly piece of fanfiction? Even they'd think that was silly, I'd imagine. So it's gone, and they can sit back and relax... until, three days later, from an entirely unrelated vanishing IP, someone uploads it to /b/, sends it out in a chain mail to a few thousand people, and generally makes it spread like wildfire as a martyr of censorship, maybe. And there's no possible way to trace it back to me or anyone else.
So they just spent thousands of dollars at least fining one person or sending them to jail for a few years at the very most. Not to mention wasting months or even years on the case. For nothing when it gets spread over the uncountable area of the internet.
I know all of that might not work, but cut it off anywhere after they find me, and it's still too much trouble to go through for punishing someone for just getting their jollies by playing in your sandbox and letting a few people watch. For there to be any value at all, literally thousands of the original author's fans would have to be reading that one piece of fanfiction. And even then, when their favorite piece of fanfiction goes down in a fiery death courtesy of the original author, they may find themselves with a few less fans because of it.
So it's far too much trouble to sue little old us for having a little fun with other people's characters. And as far as either of the girls' objections, if it's about them using stuff we came up with... I say please do! If it strikes an original author's fancy to use ideas from fanfiction of their stuff, they ought to be completely within their rights to do so, and I'd be glad, even flattered if they did it after reading something I wrote.
And as stated, free advertising. I didn't take Sailor Moon seriously at all after watching it on US TV with its crappy dub, but after reading a few interesting fics (or what I thought was interesting at the time, now I imagine those were pretty :sick3: ) I now own the full series. Haven't finished watching season 2 just yet, but they've got the money (indirectly, or maybe directly... that ebay user I bought it from definitely had the look of a distributor) and I'll eventually get around to watching it all.
Other pirating issues happen the very same way; I wouldn't've thought much of The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi had I seen it on the shelves, unless it had one hell of a summary on the back of the case, but after reading the online translation of the novels and catching all the eps on YouTube before they were taken down, I already got the nearest Hastings set to special order the special edition volume 1 DVD and they've got my 45.99 already.
I play with my SNES emulator a lot, or I used to before I seemed to run out of neat games to find mostly. But one of the games that caught my eye back then was Magic Knight Rayearth. I now proudly own the first season, and as soon as I get the spare 20 bucks that they want for it at that hastings, I'll own the second too. I discovered Elfen Lied through AMVs, and as soon as I see a boxset and have the money in my pocket, it'll be in my pocket. Same for Mai Hime, which I still have the fansubs of, though I think the Omakes will be a very nice extra, since I only have the first one of those. And Negima, which I own the first two volumes of the manga (even if I don't read them... terrible translations) and intend to buy the rest, even if I'm holding onto the fan-scans to actually read. Girls Bravo I first found out about after watching a fansub of the first episode, and I've bought two of the DVDs and the first volume of the manga. I bought, count em, five DVDs of the new Ah! Megami-sama! anime series after watching the first seven episodes on fansub and having a torturous wait to see the bronze-skinned goddess while the official companies did their work. I admittedly passed up the first DVD due to a lack of funds at the time, but I will eventually add it to my collection; I think purchasing the other five allows me a bit of leeway there.
In short, the anime industry in America is making a killing off of me, a killing it wouldn't be making so well if it wasn't for this wonderful thing called the internet and all the unscrupulous folks therein. If they were to prosecute people like me and those who provide me with these things at any respectable rate, the anime industry in the US would nearly die overnight. That's why they don't do anything, because it makes them money. Remember: the bottom line is what it's all about.
The problems with Lackey and McCafferey is their writer's integrity. They don't wish their series' to be spoiled by the idiots on the internet. Which I can entirely understand when the yaoi fangirls attack. But the more comedically minded will just laugh at those and accept them as a inevitable... while browsing down the page to see if there isn't something good. Hell, I've heard several people quote manga-ka, and from their words it seems like they're purposefully leaving avenues open to writers of fanfiction such as ourselves.
I'm ranting a bit, aren't I? Bloody sleep deprivation... Anyway.
In short, no one cares. Go to the future and find someone who does: complain to them.
Who gives a fuck? I don't.
Second, filing a lawsuit on something on the internet is impractical in the extreme. First, they have to hire someone to find out who you are. Tracking your IP address is not that difficult I understand, but narrowing it down to a physical location I'd imagine is a bit more difficult. I use a wireless modem for my internet, through my cell-phone company, so they'd probably find that first. Next, they'd have to talk to the company to get my name and address, which might take a considerable amount of haggling and ring-around-the-rosie before they get it, if the company gives it to them at all.
So they've found me. It's taken quite a bit of money, time, and effort already. Now they have to issue a C&D order before the court will accept the annoying case. If I accept, they can't do diddly squat to me. If I ignore it, they file a lawsuit. I find a lawyer and file a countersuit because of attempted invasion of privacy by the hacker that tracked me down. Not sure if that would fly, but it'd be one hell of a way to stall and annoy the piss out of them. Next, I reveal that the law itself is unconstitutional. Though we don't follow this as we should, the constitution states this somewhere within: "We realize that though it is a free country we desire, anarchy is not a solution. Therefore we must make laws. To be as free as we can, the only laws that should be made are those which deny a man's rights to take away that of another." Not that it would necessarily reach the Supreme Court to be declared as such, being a minor thing anyhow, but it could make them sweat and possibly even withdraw. In any case, we'd be arguing about it for months. If they didn't give up in disgust and eventually won, I'd take it all down, and probably get fined a hefty amount. I somehow doubt jail time is involved. Can you imagine telling the other inmates you got put in for writing a silly piece of fanfiction? Even they'd think that was silly, I'd imagine. So it's gone, and they can sit back and relax... until, three days later, from an entirely unrelated vanishing IP, someone uploads it to /b/, sends it out in a chain mail to a few thousand people, and generally makes it spread like wildfire as a martyr of censorship, maybe. And there's no possible way to trace it back to me or anyone else.
So they just spent thousands of dollars at least fining one person or sending them to jail for a few years at the very most. Not to mention wasting months or even years on the case. For nothing when it gets spread over the uncountable area of the internet.
I know all of that might not work, but cut it off anywhere after they find me, and it's still too much trouble to go through for punishing someone for just getting their jollies by playing in your sandbox and letting a few people watch. For there to be any value at all, literally thousands of the original author's fans would have to be reading that one piece of fanfiction. And even then, when their favorite piece of fanfiction goes down in a fiery death courtesy of the original author, they may find themselves with a few less fans because of it.
So it's far too much trouble to sue little old us for having a little fun with other people's characters. And as far as either of the girls' objections, if it's about them using stuff we came up with... I say please do! If it strikes an original author's fancy to use ideas from fanfiction of their stuff, they ought to be completely within their rights to do so, and I'd be glad, even flattered if they did it after reading something I wrote.
And as stated, free advertising. I didn't take Sailor Moon seriously at all after watching it on US TV with its crappy dub, but after reading a few interesting fics (or what I thought was interesting at the time, now I imagine those were pretty :sick3: ) I now own the full series. Haven't finished watching season 2 just yet, but they've got the money (indirectly, or maybe directly... that ebay user I bought it from definitely had the look of a distributor) and I'll eventually get around to watching it all.
Other pirating issues happen the very same way; I wouldn't've thought much of The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi had I seen it on the shelves, unless it had one hell of a summary on the back of the case, but after reading the online translation of the novels and catching all the eps on YouTube before they were taken down, I already got the nearest Hastings set to special order the special edition volume 1 DVD and they've got my 45.99 already.
I play with my SNES emulator a lot, or I used to before I seemed to run out of neat games to find mostly. But one of the games that caught my eye back then was Magic Knight Rayearth. I now proudly own the first season, and as soon as I get the spare 20 bucks that they want for it at that hastings, I'll own the second too. I discovered Elfen Lied through AMVs, and as soon as I see a boxset and have the money in my pocket, it'll be in my pocket. Same for Mai Hime, which I still have the fansubs of, though I think the Omakes will be a very nice extra, since I only have the first one of those. And Negima, which I own the first two volumes of the manga (even if I don't read them... terrible translations) and intend to buy the rest, even if I'm holding onto the fan-scans to actually read. Girls Bravo I first found out about after watching a fansub of the first episode, and I've bought two of the DVDs and the first volume of the manga. I bought, count em, five DVDs of the new Ah! Megami-sama! anime series after watching the first seven episodes on fansub and having a torturous wait to see the bronze-skinned goddess while the official companies did their work. I admittedly passed up the first DVD due to a lack of funds at the time, but I will eventually add it to my collection; I think purchasing the other five allows me a bit of leeway there.
In short, the anime industry in America is making a killing off of me, a killing it wouldn't be making so well if it wasn't for this wonderful thing called the internet and all the unscrupulous folks therein. If they were to prosecute people like me and those who provide me with these things at any respectable rate, the anime industry in the US would nearly die overnight. That's why they don't do anything, because it makes them money. Remember: the bottom line is what it's all about.
The problems with Lackey and McCafferey is their writer's integrity. They don't wish their series' to be spoiled by the idiots on the internet. Which I can entirely understand when the yaoi fangirls attack. But the more comedically minded will just laugh at those and accept them as a inevitable... while browsing down the page to see if there isn't something good. Hell, I've heard several people quote manga-ka, and from their words it seems like they're purposefully leaving avenues open to writers of fanfiction such as ourselves.
I'm ranting a bit, aren't I? Bloody sleep deprivation... Anyway.
In short, no one cares. Go to the future and find someone who does: complain to them.
Of course, someone causing all the trouble they can for the author/publisher, as Scygnus Darkhawk suggested, might cause them to do everything they can to get fanfiction declared illegal outright. You push someone, and they might push back. And they might get other publishers to help. Which could end up hurting fanfiction as a whole. It's why most fanfiction authors cooperate with the companies. It's easier to accept a few limitations now, than risk lots being added later. And even if it just makes one author ban any fanfiction on their work, do you really want to be known as the person who caused it, just because you don't respect the original author's rights to their own creation?
And then there's the authors and publishers who are rabidly against things like fanfiction, and are quite willing to go after you with everthing they can. Not that many of them out there, but sometimes you anger the wrong person.
As for generating ill will towards the one who started the lawsuit, it can go the other way as well, depending on how both sides do things.
Yes, it looks like it's that way.
And then there's the authors and publishers who are rabidly against things like fanfiction, and are quite willing to go after you with everthing they can. Not that many of them out there, but sometimes you anger the wrong person.
As for generating ill will towards the one who started the lawsuit, it can go the other way as well, depending on how both sides do things.
Yes, it looks like it's that way.
In point of fact, it's much easier than all that. Suppose it's your particular draco/harry mpreg story that causes JRK to finally pop a vein and go after you.. it'd go something like this.
JKR's publisher sends a C&D that says 'take this shit down or else' to your webhost. Odds are they do it.
Now, suppose this particular harry/draco mpreg story was so vile that it makes everyone who's read it nauseous just thinking about Harry Potter, and hence has devalued the Harry Potter brand, and JKR wants to recover damages. Webhost gets a subpoena, your ISP gets a subpoena, and you get a lawsuit.
Now, JKR's publisher's lawyers know they're not gonna get much out of most private citizens, so odds are they'll accept a settlement. But the end result of even a very generous settlement on their part is that you've had to pay a lawyer, had to miss work, and are in the hole a bit. And you'll pay whatever you settled for, oh yeah, because if you don't your wages will be garnished to do it. So.. for a minor amount of effort on the part of a publisher's legal team, they've imposed a whole bunch of inconvenience, stress, and financial difficulty on you. Which will likely result in at least a few less gross harry/draco mpreg fics.
Remember, when you're thinking "oh they won't go to the trouble, it'd be too much work", you're dead wrong. Legal departments exist and are paid to do that work. The fact that it's not done most of the time is 100% due to the forebearance of authors and publishers.
JKR's publisher sends a C&D that says 'take this shit down or else' to your webhost. Odds are they do it.
Now, suppose this particular harry/draco mpreg story was so vile that it makes everyone who's read it nauseous just thinking about Harry Potter, and hence has devalued the Harry Potter brand, and JKR wants to recover damages. Webhost gets a subpoena, your ISP gets a subpoena, and you get a lawsuit.
Now, JKR's publisher's lawyers know they're not gonna get much out of most private citizens, so odds are they'll accept a settlement. But the end result of even a very generous settlement on their part is that you've had to pay a lawyer, had to miss work, and are in the hole a bit. And you'll pay whatever you settled for, oh yeah, because if you don't your wages will be garnished to do it. So.. for a minor amount of effort on the part of a publisher's legal team, they've imposed a whole bunch of inconvenience, stress, and financial difficulty on you. Which will likely result in at least a few less gross harry/draco mpreg fics.
Remember, when you're thinking "oh they won't go to the trouble, it'd be too much work", you're dead wrong. Legal departments exist and are paid to do that work. The fact that it's not done most of the time is 100% due to the forebearance of authors and publishers.
I have no money to speak of and garnishing wages is illegal in the state of Texas. I would also Cease and Desist upon asking, and I also wouldn't write any shit like that, so it won't really be a problem. People that write that kind of thing can rot in hell for all I care, so if JKR wants to fry them, she can feel free.
And I was just using me as an example. As I said, one word from them and I pull it down, out of respect for the original author, as I am indeed a fan of any series I write for and respect them as the owner. I was talking about the stubborn yaoi fangirls, who I very much doubt would go down without a fight in many cases. One would cost them a grand, at least... I doubt they'd go for the lowest bidders for lawyers, and even those ain't cheap... eradicating all of them would cost a ridiculous amount of money and they wouldn't even start to get their costs back since most of them are underage teenaged girls who either don't work or have a job at McDonalds. If they claimed it against the parents of the girls, it would start a mass movement of parents either watching their children's computers or banning them from the internet outright. There goes a good portion of the market when all those kids effected by the movement, knowing the cause, start hating those who filed the lawsuit and stop buying anything from them. And then, internet privacy goes down the drain as parents of children in political positions push for revoking anything like it. There goes the internet entirely when everyone on it doing anything illegal gets busted, which gives those that got those things reason to not be on the 'net anymore, which busts markets around the world using it down a few pegs, or destroys them entirely. As you know, many industries rely on one-another, so this starts a chain reaction. Eventually, if something doesn't reverse the process, the economy collapses.
Not necessarily what would happen, but it's a very real possibility, and stranger things have been known to happen. For something that gets a little bit of fanfiction here and there, it wouldn't be a problem to do something, sure. Hitting one specific piece wouldn't be a problem either. A mass purging though? It's gonna cause problems, maybe not to the level stated above, but problems you will have. So if you just hit one or two, it's okay, right? But which ones to hit? How do you find the worst, define the worst? How do you know another one won't pop up next week? It's futile.
It's a case of 'don't poke the bear'. If you poke the bear, it might just look at you. Or it might slap your head off and eat your children. Nobody wants to poke this particular bear, so we really have nothing to worry about.
It's also a matter of size; a series with three fics will be easy to quash, while a series like HP... yeah. Like trying to stomp an elephant flat one size-twelve-shoe at a time.
Dark_Plauge said it... teh intrawebs wins. It has more power than you think, and it's just going to get more and more powerful as the years go by... unless something like that happens and destroys it. But the longer it goes, the more likely it is that society as a whole collapses with it.
And yes, don't mess with OSC. I've read Ender's Game, and to write something that fucked up, you have to have a mind that's both inventive and cruel. But I didn't know he had any problems with fanfiction... I don't know of any that exists either, so... has he only hit crappy self-inserts and the like, or declared all out holy war? I know there's not much of it, if any at all, so...
And I was just using me as an example. As I said, one word from them and I pull it down, out of respect for the original author, as I am indeed a fan of any series I write for and respect them as the owner. I was talking about the stubborn yaoi fangirls, who I very much doubt would go down without a fight in many cases. One would cost them a grand, at least... I doubt they'd go for the lowest bidders for lawyers, and even those ain't cheap... eradicating all of them would cost a ridiculous amount of money and they wouldn't even start to get their costs back since most of them are underage teenaged girls who either don't work or have a job at McDonalds. If they claimed it against the parents of the girls, it would start a mass movement of parents either watching their children's computers or banning them from the internet outright. There goes a good portion of the market when all those kids effected by the movement, knowing the cause, start hating those who filed the lawsuit and stop buying anything from them. And then, internet privacy goes down the drain as parents of children in political positions push for revoking anything like it. There goes the internet entirely when everyone on it doing anything illegal gets busted, which gives those that got those things reason to not be on the 'net anymore, which busts markets around the world using it down a few pegs, or destroys them entirely. As you know, many industries rely on one-another, so this starts a chain reaction. Eventually, if something doesn't reverse the process, the economy collapses.
Not necessarily what would happen, but it's a very real possibility, and stranger things have been known to happen. For something that gets a little bit of fanfiction here and there, it wouldn't be a problem to do something, sure. Hitting one specific piece wouldn't be a problem either. A mass purging though? It's gonna cause problems, maybe not to the level stated above, but problems you will have. So if you just hit one or two, it's okay, right? But which ones to hit? How do you find the worst, define the worst? How do you know another one won't pop up next week? It's futile.
It's a case of 'don't poke the bear'. If you poke the bear, it might just look at you. Or it might slap your head off and eat your children. Nobody wants to poke this particular bear, so we really have nothing to worry about.
It's also a matter of size; a series with three fics will be easy to quash, while a series like HP... yeah. Like trying to stomp an elephant flat one size-twelve-shoe at a time.
Dark_Plauge said it... teh intrawebs wins. It has more power than you think, and it's just going to get more and more powerful as the years go by... unless something like that happens and destroys it. But the longer it goes, the more likely it is that society as a whole collapses with it.
And yes, don't mess with OSC. I've read Ender's Game, and to write something that fucked up, you have to have a mind that's both inventive and cruel. But I didn't know he had any problems with fanfiction... I don't know of any that exists either, so... has he only hit crappy self-inserts and the like, or declared all out holy war? I know there's not much of it, if any at all, so...
Don't know, although I have to wonder why exactly anyone would have a problem with fanfiction in general. I know that if I ever get something published I'd be flattered to see fanfics for it. Also, I don't know how laws concerning copyright are set in Texas, but in the northeast the cases I've found consider fanfics to be parody and therefore legal unless money is made off the fanfics.
Anyone have PROOF that parodies are legal? I've heard it both ways, that they are, and that the people who thought think they are made a mistake.
As for authors and publishers disliking fanfiction, there are several reasons. Some, especially companies, as opposed to individuals, are possesive. It's THEIR work, and nobody touches it without their (rarely given without money being involved) permission. In this case, it's usually more about you NOT paying them money to read the stories. Though some are just possesive, period.
Some prefer not to risk legal battles, like the Mercedes Lackey one mentioned. She's appearently friends with Anne McCaffrey and Barbara Hambley, since they've co-authored with each other (I think). Which is probably why none of them allow non-authorized fanfics.
Some don't want porn and such written about their stories, especially when it's targetted at younger audiences. Disney tends to go after it, and I believe Nintendo did too, for Pokemon. Larry Niven doesn't care about fanfics on his stories, which aren't children's stories, as long as it's not porn.
And some just don't want some of the poorly written garbage out there associated with their story. And it's easier to ban all of it, than approve each story on an individual basis.
As for authors and publishers disliking fanfiction, there are several reasons. Some, especially companies, as opposed to individuals, are possesive. It's THEIR work, and nobody touches it without their (rarely given without money being involved) permission. In this case, it's usually more about you NOT paying them money to read the stories. Though some are just possesive, period.
Some prefer not to risk legal battles, like the Mercedes Lackey one mentioned. She's appearently friends with Anne McCaffrey and Barbara Hambley, since they've co-authored with each other (I think). Which is probably why none of them allow non-authorized fanfics.
Some don't want porn and such written about their stories, especially when it's targetted at younger audiences. Disney tends to go after it, and I believe Nintendo did too, for Pokemon. Larry Niven doesn't care about fanfics on his stories, which aren't children's stories, as long as it's not porn.
And some just don't want some of the poorly written garbage out there associated with their story. And it's easier to ban all of it, than approve each story on an individual basis.
Heres a link on one of the more important cases, although admittedly the 11th circuit court of appeals doesn't apply to the northeast. As a warning its rather legal in wording (by nature). It concerns a lawsuit between the holders of the copyright for Gone With The Wind, and a novel written apparently as a critique named The Wind Done Gone. lawsuit
Edit
And yes, if the author or owner of the copyright requests that a site stop hosting fanfiction, usually the site complies not so much out of any clear law on the subject as much as the incredible expenses of a civil lawsuit in the States.
Edit
Sorry, I forgot that you need to register with the other site to view the cases, hopefully the new link will work.
Edit
And yes, if the author or owner of the copyright requests that a site stop hosting fanfiction, usually the site complies not so much out of any clear law on the subject as much as the incredible expenses of a civil lawsuit in the States.
Edit
Sorry, I forgot that you need to register with the other site to view the cases, hopefully the new link will work.
You might also be interested in Fan Fiction, Fandom and Fanfare (PDF), a gentle introduction to the topic from the Boston University Journal of Science and Law. It's worth reading.
Copyright law varies reasonably widely, though, so most of it won't apply outside the US. There is no such thing as "fair use" here in Australia, for example. Know your local laws!
@MageOhki: can you provide some citations for that? Doujinshi authors have been sued for copyright infringement both by publishers and by individual manga authors, so I would suggest that it's just as "technically" (i.e., actually) illegal in Japan as elsewhere.
Copyright law varies reasonably widely, though, so most of it won't apply outside the US. There is no such thing as "fair use" here in Australia, for example. Know your local laws!
@MageOhki: can you provide some citations for that? Doujinshi authors have been sued for copyright infringement both by publishers and by individual manga authors, so I would suggest that it's just as "technically" (i.e., actually) illegal in Japan as elsewhere.
On the doujin front, I thought they were 'legal' (for a given value of the word) or at least politely ignored, as long as the author didn't make a profit. You could sell them, but you had to lose money each time one was sold. So basically you could pay for paper/printing costs, but you could never get paid for time and effort involved. Last time I checked up on that was a while ago, though, so it might well have changed by now.
An interesting quandry, however, would be an author that writes fanfic or doujin of their own work...
An interesting quandry, however, would be an author that writes fanfic or doujin of their own work...
Don't see any possible ramifications of that. What are you going to do, sue yourself?
On the other hand, I once had a loan company accuse me of forging my own name. So who knows.
EDIT: actually, thinking on this a bit more. While suing yourself would be pointless, the publisher going through might concievably be able to.
On the other hand, I once had a loan company accuse me of forging my own name. So who knows.
EDIT: actually, thinking on this a bit more. While suing yourself would be pointless, the publisher going through might concievably be able to.
the author of any original work writing fanfiction of his own works is impossible.
As long as it isn't an XO with any over series, if he writes something for his own fandom, it becomes either canon or a second storyline (with minute changes leading to big differences, aka AU if it is written by fans)
As long as it isn't an XO with any over series, if he writes something for his own fandom, it becomes either canon or a second storyline (with minute changes leading to big differences, aka AU if it is written by fans)