Cool Pictures
- Thread starter LORD_ARM
- Start date
Ordo said:
I never finished reading IT, and I shall not do so until I see the movie...give the film a fair chance.
There will be a sequel that covers the parts when the Losers are adults 30 years later. It's already in development and will presumably be in theaters sometime between 2018-2020.
It also takes place in the late 80s, where as the book was set in the 50s, so the 30 years later stuff will be set in the present day.
Yes. Yes, it does.... mostly, save that the scientists, if they had actually been scientists, would have probably seen the flaws that the reddit poster pointed out (and that creating their pseudo-dinosaurs from scratch using frogs and alligators or whatever would be supremely difficult, but that can be handwaved by setting it further in the future).
Not really. It only seems like it at first glance.
First of all, in the book the dinosaurs were the correct size. The changes were made for the film only. The Dilophosaurs were about ten feet tall in the book as they should be, but still had poison glands. Velociraptors were also described as the correct size.
One of the games actually goes into this. Wu apparently used DNA from poison dart frogs for the Dilophosaurs, which caused the frills and poison mutations. It was apparently the most radically altered of the animals on the island due to the gene splicing.
Secondly, the Dinosaurs largely matched the popular theories at the time. So the scientists wouldn't have known that they needed feathers and such, because those discoveries weren't made yet or were still very new and not yet established.
There's also the bit about using amphibian DNA to fill in the holes, which is the actual reason the T-Rex had vision problems. Given the placement of the eyes it likely wouldn't have actually had vision based movement. It's something it probably picked up from the amphibian DNA.
The book actually confirms that they aren't "real" dinosaurs due to the mutations likely caused by the replacement DNA. Malcom alludes to this in the dinner scene.
It doesn't ever directly state this is the case though, but there is a fair amount of evidence in the book that it is. Grant's suspicions kind of come through, but he doesn't ever really voice them as survival is kind of on the forefront by the time it comes up.
What Grant saw would have been something that confirmed what he thought was true at the time at first glance, a little too closely. If anything, the fact that they conformed so well to present theories might have caused a little suspicion.
It is also reasonable that a Paleontologist might not know about DNA decay. That's kind of outside of their field. It's not really a thing in the source anyway, as it's made pretty clear that they did in fact manage to extract some dinosaur DNA from the mosquitoes to use as a basis for the clones they were creating.
For the most part this theory is mostly a case of the movie making alterations and cutting things out for the sake of adaption. It doesn't fit all that well if you go beyond the surface. The raptors were made bigger to make them scarier, and the Dilophosaur was made smaller so it would be cheaper to make as an animitronic creature, and so it would fit in the vehicle with the actor.
Overall, it's only kind of correct, but takes things too far to the extreme.
First of all, in the book the dinosaurs were the correct size. The changes were made for the film only. The Dilophosaurs were about ten feet tall in the book as they should be, but still had poison glands. Velociraptors were also described as the correct size.
One of the games actually goes into this. Wu apparently used DNA from poison dart frogs for the Dilophosaurs, which caused the frills and poison mutations. It was apparently the most radically altered of the animals on the island due to the gene splicing.
Secondly, the Dinosaurs largely matched the popular theories at the time. So the scientists wouldn't have known that they needed feathers and such, because those discoveries weren't made yet or were still very new and not yet established.
There's also the bit about using amphibian DNA to fill in the holes, which is the actual reason the T-Rex had vision problems. Given the placement of the eyes it likely wouldn't have actually had vision based movement. It's something it probably picked up from the amphibian DNA.
The book actually confirms that they aren't "real" dinosaurs due to the mutations likely caused by the replacement DNA. Malcom alludes to this in the dinner scene.
It doesn't ever directly state this is the case though, but there is a fair amount of evidence in the book that it is. Grant's suspicions kind of come through, but he doesn't ever really voice them as survival is kind of on the forefront by the time it comes up.
What Grant saw would have been something that confirmed what he thought was true at the time at first glance, a little too closely. If anything, the fact that they conformed so well to present theories might have caused a little suspicion.
It is also reasonable that a Paleontologist might not know about DNA decay. That's kind of outside of their field. It's not really a thing in the source anyway, as it's made pretty clear that they did in fact manage to extract some dinosaur DNA from the mosquitoes to use as a basis for the clones they were creating.
For the most part this theory is mostly a case of the movie making alterations and cutting things out for the sake of adaption. It doesn't fit all that well if you go beyond the surface. The raptors were made bigger to make them scarier, and the Dilophosaur was made smaller so it would be cheaper to make as an animitronic creature, and so it would fit in the vehicle with the actor.
Overall, it's only kind of correct, but takes things too far to the extreme.
As for the ship...
The resources consumed by things like Ultra Star Dreadnoughts and things like Death Stars and Star Killer Bases is insane... entire fleets that would likely be more effective could be built in their place, and be comparatively harder to take out.
Even the Executor class Star Dreadnought (Super Star Destroyer) is a insane size to build to compared to all others.
What comes to mind with this newest one every time I see it now is a fan made forum entry I came across that was a communications from the break in crew to the yard that built it during its shakedown cruise indicating it may be too big to be functional. Mentioning that just the *brief* tour took days, despite transport tubes and other ways to get around in it.
The empire (or first order) would have been better off instead of giant single vessel/station projects building for example say:
- 200+ - 10000m+ Star Dreadnoughts like Assertor and Executor classes
- 200+ - 5000m+ Dreadnoughts like Bellator and Legator classes
- 8000+ - 3500m+ Star Battle Cruisers like Compellor and Impellor classes
- 8000+ - 2000m+ Battle Cruisers like Procurator and Allegiance classes
- 24000+ - 1400m+ Star Destroyers like Imperitor and Dominator classes
- 24000+ - 800m+ Destroyers like Procursator and Victory classes
- 32000+ - 600m+ Star Cruisers like Acclamator and Fulgor classes
- 32000+ - 400m+ Cruisers like Vindicator and Immobilizer classes
- 48000+ - 200m+ Frigates like Vigil class
- 192000+ - 100m+ Corvettes like Customs and Raider classes
- 256000+ - under 100m Gun Ships Intersector and XG1Starwing classes
In total a massive fleet of 626000+ that would overwhelm just about anything. They could have thousands of task forces or hundreds of fleets.
As for the universe...
Personally, despite the constant increases in size of ships over time, I've come to the general conclusion that the Star Wars universe is a long stagnated society... at least, that is the impression I get going from Old Republic times, to Clone Wars, to Rebels, to Movies, and to The Force Awakens...
The weapons, skills, and ships and even sides are little different now from 3,500 years prior. Society, man (or fellow beings really I suppose would be the better politically correct term) nor government, nor even the Jedi and Sith have learned anything.
The resources consumed by things like Ultra Star Dreadnoughts and things like Death Stars and Star Killer Bases is insane... entire fleets that would likely be more effective could be built in their place, and be comparatively harder to take out.
Even the Executor class Star Dreadnought (Super Star Destroyer) is a insane size to build to compared to all others.
What comes to mind with this newest one every time I see it now is a fan made forum entry I came across that was a communications from the break in crew to the yard that built it during its shakedown cruise indicating it may be too big to be functional. Mentioning that just the *brief* tour took days, despite transport tubes and other ways to get around in it.
The empire (or first order) would have been better off instead of giant single vessel/station projects building for example say:
- 200+ - 10000m+ Star Dreadnoughts like Assertor and Executor classes
- 200+ - 5000m+ Dreadnoughts like Bellator and Legator classes
- 8000+ - 3500m+ Star Battle Cruisers like Compellor and Impellor classes
- 8000+ - 2000m+ Battle Cruisers like Procurator and Allegiance classes
- 24000+ - 1400m+ Star Destroyers like Imperitor and Dominator classes
- 24000+ - 800m+ Destroyers like Procursator and Victory classes
- 32000+ - 600m+ Star Cruisers like Acclamator and Fulgor classes
- 32000+ - 400m+ Cruisers like Vindicator and Immobilizer classes
- 48000+ - 200m+ Frigates like Vigil class
- 192000+ - 100m+ Corvettes like Customs and Raider classes
- 256000+ - under 100m Gun Ships Intersector and XG1Starwing classes
In total a massive fleet of 626000+ that would overwhelm just about anything. They could have thousands of task forces or hundreds of fleets.
As for the universe...
Personally, despite the constant increases in size of ships over time, I've come to the general conclusion that the Star Wars universe is a long stagnated society... at least, that is the impression I get going from Old Republic times, to Clone Wars, to Rebels, to Movies, and to The Force Awakens...
The weapons, skills, and ships and even sides are little different now from 3,500 years prior. Society, man (or fellow beings really I suppose would be the better politically correct term) nor government, nor even the Jedi and Sith have learned anything.
At almost 40 miles long, this thing is more an artificial mobile colony than a "space station".
I'd liken it more to a capital city than anything else.
Plus, it's a space faring ship yard.
This thing can go from planet to planet gathering resources for building a fleet, remain mobile to stay hidden from Republic Forces, and sustain itself in the outer reaches.
As a battleship it's shitty, but as a mobile command base, shipyard, and factory it's actually pretty smart tactically speaking.
It seems to me the point of something like this would be to keep it out of battle. Sure, it needs defensive systems and all that, but the point of something like this would be to keep all those resources out of conflict and mobile.
That was the Death Star's biggest flaw. It was intended to be an aggressive weapon and put directly into conflict. The second one was supposedly anywhere from 160-190 Km in diameter. I don't recall any mention of it being anything but a battle station.
As I understand it, Star Destroyers could dock there for repair, but there wasn't any sort of ship building operations on board. It just consumed resources, and didn't create them.
This thing on the other hand is designed to be a manufacturing facility. It's a much smarter tactical design than the Death Star or Starkiller Base were. It actually serves a significant support function for military operations beyond "obliterate all the things".
I'd liken it more to a capital city than anything else.
Plus, it's a space faring ship yard.
This thing can go from planet to planet gathering resources for building a fleet, remain mobile to stay hidden from Republic Forces, and sustain itself in the outer reaches.
As a battleship it's shitty, but as a mobile command base, shipyard, and factory it's actually pretty smart tactically speaking.
It seems to me the point of something like this would be to keep it out of battle. Sure, it needs defensive systems and all that, but the point of something like this would be to keep all those resources out of conflict and mobile.
That was the Death Star's biggest flaw. It was intended to be an aggressive weapon and put directly into conflict. The second one was supposedly anywhere from 160-190 Km in diameter. I don't recall any mention of it being anything but a battle station.
As I understand it, Star Destroyers could dock there for repair, but there wasn't any sort of ship building operations on board. It just consumed resources, and didn't create them.
This thing on the other hand is designed to be a manufacturing facility. It's a much smarter tactical design than the Death Star or Starkiller Base were. It actually serves a significant support function for military operations beyond "obliterate all the things".
Stations can in fact be mobile in the Star Wars universe... both canon and fanon ones have proved it. If they can make the Death Stars and Star Killer bases mobile, and this monstrosity of a ship, they can make an actual base mobile.
The problem, as I see it, is this is in fact a ship. You do not build something that big and then use it for something other than what it is... it may do all you say and more, but you cannot deny it is a ship.
I am still of the firm opinion, that giant single structure builds like this are the wrong way to go from a resource standpoint. Concentrate too much in resources and the loss is huge if it does get taken out.
As an alternate example, picture many very small mobile bases instead...they could house ships for refueling, repair, even build them, they could serve as hubs in a planetary defense grid, or if building ships they could go to the resources, gas giants, asteroid fields, etc... They could be transport to a battle front... this one object appears, and launches a dozen or more ships fully fueled and ready. A game mod comes to mind because it fits the look of known construction: Imperial Tycon class http://www.xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3008/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10631 I grant, this is limited to Imperitor and smaller, but it gets the concept across, the benefit would be it is easy to build due to small size and fact it is mostly hollow. Picture a larger one that could fit battle cruisers or a task force in it.
Of course, this all denies one critical point. It would not be much a movie if the heroes could not win... Thus the easy to destroy huge single target enemy facilities.
Which is a pity, as I actually like the bulk of the imperial capital ship designs, and fanon derivitives of them. One of the few series I've ever seen I like the bad guys ships more than the good guy hero ships... Can't say the same for canon fighters, but there are a few derivitave fan made ones that appeal like: https://encho-enchev.deviantart.com/art/Imperial-fighter-concept-01-583993899
The problem, as I see it, is this is in fact a ship. You do not build something that big and then use it for something other than what it is... it may do all you say and more, but you cannot deny it is a ship.
I am still of the firm opinion, that giant single structure builds like this are the wrong way to go from a resource standpoint. Concentrate too much in resources and the loss is huge if it does get taken out.
As an alternate example, picture many very small mobile bases instead...they could house ships for refueling, repair, even build them, they could serve as hubs in a planetary defense grid, or if building ships they could go to the resources, gas giants, asteroid fields, etc... They could be transport to a battle front... this one object appears, and launches a dozen or more ships fully fueled and ready. A game mod comes to mind because it fits the look of known construction: Imperial Tycon class http://www.xwaupgrade.com/phpBB3008/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10631 I grant, this is limited to Imperitor and smaller, but it gets the concept across, the benefit would be it is easy to build due to small size and fact it is mostly hollow. Picture a larger one that could fit battle cruisers or a task force in it.
Of course, this all denies one critical point. It would not be much a movie if the heroes could not win... Thus the easy to destroy huge single target enemy facilities.
Which is a pity, as I actually like the bulk of the imperial capital ship designs, and fanon derivitives of them. One of the few series I've ever seen I like the bad guys ships more than the good guy hero ships... Can't say the same for canon fighters, but there are a few derivitave fan made ones that appeal like: https://encho-enchev.deviantart.com/art/Imperial-fighter-concept-01-583993899
