DC Civil War?

[DhampyrX2]

I just got done reading a fic set in the JLU-animated verse just after the finale where the government tried to pull the same Civil War BS from Marvel in the DC verse. It's just getting started and has split the League, but the Original 7, all of the Teen Titans, and a good portion of the better reserve members of the League are standing together to oppose governmental stupidity.

This got me to review the fic and point out several points like the fact some member such as Batman and Green Arrow aren't methuman and would not fall under a metahuman registration act, which is what the fic proposed. Oh and attacking Diana and Starfire is like inviting the Amazons and Tamaranians to come down on you like the hammer of god. Then, of course, you have the fact that the Origianl 7 of the League conquered the whole WORLD in the Justice Lords timeline. Now they have significant backup AND are in the right in opposing this crap.

Anyway I thought I would put the idea up here of how the DC-verse in general, and I suppose the Timmverse version in particular since it inspired this, would deal with the whole Civil War issue? Would they cheap is out and have White Maritans be behind it the way the Skrull were in MCW? How would they address the issue that probably a quarter of the important DC heroes aren't even metas and are technically already acting as illegal vigilantes? Frankly, I don't see members like Batman or Huntress sweating an extra warrant if they're captured by someone wanting bring them in. How would the major DC supervillans look at this? Please feel free to discuss. any and everything that would stem from a DC Civil War.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Actually, I could see Batman being favorable to this... just so long as the right, trustworthy person is put in charge of the sensitive data, and he gets to encrypt the data in question so hard it'd make Brainiac's head hurt just looking at it.

Like say, Superman.

It also really doesn't help that 75% of DC superheroes' identities are KNOWN to the public, so a registration act would only hit the few stragglers left. Most DC heroes, after all, have little to nothing to hide about their identity. Martian Manhunter, well, you get what you see. Wonder Woman never made any mystery of her name, and neither did Starfire. Hawkman and Hawkgirl's identities are common knowledge (kinda hard to hide those wings...), and so was Elongated Man's. Barry Allen being the Flash is common knowledge since his 'death', so he no longer has an identity to hide. And among the New Gods, there was Big Barda, who literally couldn't care less about secret identity nonsense.

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

[DhampyrX2]

That was kind of my point. Most of the "hidden" heroes aren't even metas. They're guys like Batman, Question, and Green Arrow who hide their identities for very good reasons. And I can't see Batman supporting government registration when it puts him and his family at risk. After all, he already tracks everyone because he's paranoid like that. Why risk someone with less security getting involved? This is the guy that helped design an encrypted system in Kryptonian for the Watchtower. He knows security and he knows that any system can get hacked. Ra's did get his protocols, after all.

And Batman does not trust Superman. Superman is both a meta and a alien. That right there means Batman will never trust him fully. Heck, Batman didn't even want to reveal himself to the full League when more than half already KNEW his identity and called him a personal friend. Never assume Batman trusts anyone but himself. He doesn't.

 

[GenocideHeart]

After all, he already tracks everyone because he's paranoid like that.

And that's exactly why he'd be all for it. For all that he has a lot of gadgets, he can't track EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY. Having government backing would give him significantly more infrastructures to work with. However, the Bat is also paranoid enough to consider the possibility of HE HIMSELF going rogue, which is why I'm saying he'd want someone who's repeatedly shown to be pretty much incorruptible to also get ahold of such records.

And for all that Supes is a meta and an alien, Batman has shown that he trusts him implicitly with his very life, because, as he himself stated once, "Superman might as well be physically incapable of committing evil acts. If he ever goes after someone with homicidal intent, chances are they've done something unforgivable" (paraphrased, but thatw as the gist of it).

The only issues Batman would have with such a law would be if the records were unsecured, not them existing (he has a lot of them already, after all...). Which is why he'd want to be in charge of the encryption - the guy is really good at making classified info REMAIN so.

 

[DhampyrX2]

After all, he already tracks everyone because he's paranoid like that.

And that's exactly why he'd be all for it. For all that he has a lot of gadgets, he can't track EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY. Having government backing would give him significantly more infrastructures to work with. However, the Bat is also paranoid enough to consider the possibility of HE HIMSELF going rogue, which is why I'm saying he'd want someone who's repeatedly shown to be pretty much incorruptible to also get ahold of such records.

And for all that Supes is a meta and an alien, Batman has shown that he trusts him implicitly with his very life, because, as he himself stated once, "Superman might as well be physically incapable of committing evil acts. If he ever goes after someone with homicidal intent, chances are they've done something unforgivable" (paraphrased, but thatw as the gist of it).

The only issues Batman would have with such a law would be if the records were unsecured, not them existing (he has a lot of them already, after all...). Which is why he'd want to be in charge of the encryption - the guy is really good at making classified info REMAIN so.

Ra's al Ghul and most of the Justince League in the whole Tower of Babel situation would disagree. No system is truly secure. Not even a purely mental ones with telepaths like Martian Manhunter around.

And if he did go rogue, I'd suspect ot would fall to Dick, Tim, and the rest of the family to put Bruce down. In fact I would not put it past him to have had someone train Dick in a style or technique meant specifically to kill Bruce if Bruce lost it.

Honestly, if the League split over this I would see Superman supporting it to some degree as he's more naturally trusting. Batman does not trust. If he did he'd have been dead a long time ago.



Honestly the thing is kind of moot, now that I think about it, as we've seen this whole scenario play out already. Kingdom Come WAS DC's Civil War with Batman on one side, Superman on the other, and the poor government scared shitless in the middle. And in the end neither side really won but Bruce DID knock some sense into Clark and Diana's thick skulls if a figurative sense.

 

[Chuckg]

Let's not forget that in the DCU, they've had to deal with the Cadmus Project, Amanda Waller, Task Force X, General Eiling, President Lex Luthor...

Really. The last thing Batman would want to do is set up any kind of precedent at all that the government should get involved in tracking metahumans. The DCU government has an even worse track record than Marvel's, and that's saying something. If he needs to track metahumans, well, that's what Oracle's for.

 

[A Curious Stranger]

<a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3036617/1/A_More_Civil_View' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>A Fun little fic</a>

 

[Kilgard]

Also, if I remember right, back during the late 80's or early 90's, DC went through the exact same thing with anti-metahuman sentiments by regular humans and Super Human registration by the government. I think that entire arc ended with it being revealed that one of Darkseids Lt.'s was behind the whole plot in order to facilitate an invasion by Darkseids forces. In the end, the good guys triumphed over the bad guys and the writers turned onto a new story arc.

 

[grant]

I'd like to think that DC wouldn't do something that would be so obviously set up to fail but these are the same people who did Amazons Attack.
Personally I always felt that the debate was a strange one, in my opinion they would have established some kind of registration decades ago if this was RL.

 

[David Alan Abramczyk]

Following the line of thought though, why would people like Shining Knight , Aquaman or Fire give a Tinkers' Cuss about what the American Government says? One's a Briton of King Arthur's court, one's an Atlantean, the other's from Brazil.

 

[crazyfoxdemon]

Following the line of thought though, why would people like Shining Knight , Aquaman or Fire give a Tinkers' Cuss about what the American Government says? One's a Briton of King Arthur's court, one's an Atlantean, the other's from Brazil.

That's the largest flaw... A good portion of the JL are not American citizens...

 

[zeebee1]

The Justice League doesn't even operate on Earth. Superman is a known alien, and Wonderwoman comes from an island that's not on any maps. All they'd have to do is say as they were not born in America they don't have to disclose their identities.

Besides, the reason the Civil War took place is because someone had the gall to say no to Captain America. If the entire JLA is united the US government won't have the momentum to turn the people against them.

 

[da_fox2279]

Actually, I could see Batman being favorable to this... just so long as the right, trustworthy person is put in charge of the sensitive data, and he gets to encrypt the data in question so hard it'd make Brainiac's head hurt just looking at it.

Like say, Superman.

It also really doesn't help that 75% of DC superheroes' identities are KNOWN to the public, so a registration act would only hit the few stragglers left. Most DC heroes, after all, have little to nothing to hide about their identity. Martian Manhunter, well, you get what you see. Wonder Woman never made any mystery of her name, and neither did Starfire. Hawkman and Hawkgirl's identities are common knowledge (kinda hard to hide those wings...), and so was Elongated Man's. Barry Allen being the Flash is common knowledge since his 'death', so he no longer has an identity to hide. And among the New Gods, there was Big Barda, who literally couldn't care less about secret identity nonsense.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Forgive me, I've been out of the comics scene for a while... I was under the impression that Carter and Kendra's wings were artificial, part of their costumes... namely, the harness that Carter wore (I believe Deathstroke cut it off him in Identity Crisis), and Kendra's... actually, looking back at the JSA issues she was in, prior to the Crisis trilogy, there are times she's in costume, and has no wings, and times when she's in costume and has wings. Are her wings natural?

On topic: there's no way a registration act would work in the DCU. Way too many people would fight it. If I recall correctly, the JSA disbanded because the House UnAmerican Activities, headed by McCartney, wanted them to unmask and reveal their identities... backed by Vandal Savage, I think.

No way the modern superheroes would go along with it. Bats might think it's a good idea, but given his experiences with the 'Tower of Babel' shit and Brother Eye, he would avoid it. That's my opinion, anyway.

 

[grant]

The Justice League doesn't even operate on Earth. Superman is a known alien, and Wonderwoman comes from an island that's not on any maps. All they'd have to do is say as they were not born in America they don't have to disclose their identities.

Besides, the reason the Civil War took place is because someone had the gall to say no to Captain America. If the entire JLA is united the US government won't have the momentum to turn the people against them.

DC published a miniseries where the president invoked a law (intended to deal with espionage and subversion) that had soldiers rounding up women for fear of them being Amazon sympathizers. In order to deal with a conventional attack.

If memory serves they also have a comic where a judge ignores a jury's 'not guilty' verdict and exiles a man from a city.

I don't think knowledge of politics or law is widespread over at DC.

 

[Elvarein]

The Justice League doesn't even operate on Earth. Superman is a known alien, and Wonderwoman comes from an island that's not on any maps. All they'd have to do is say as they were not born in America they don't have to disclose their identities.

Besides, the reason the Civil War took place is because someone had the gall to say no to Captain America. If the entire JLA is united the US government won't have the momentum to turn the people against them.

DC published a miniseries where the president invoked a law (intended to deal with espionage and subversion) that had soldiers rounding up women for fear of them being Amazon sympathizers. In order to deal with a conventional attack.

If memory serves they also have a comic where a judge ignores a jury's 'not guilty' verdict and exiles a man from a city.

I don't think knowledge of politics or law is widespread over at DC.

Its just a cynical attempt to play to the lowest common denominator. ie Conspiracy theorists and people who do not trust the government.

You know like the Tea Party?

Edit: Well, might have been a little harsh here but dammit, I don't feel particularly nice today.

 

[zeebee1]

The truth might be harsh at times, but that wasn't harsh.

 

[DhampyrX2]

The Justice League doesn't even operate on Earth. Superman is a known alien, and Wonderwoman comes from an island that's not on any maps. All they'd have to do is say as they were not born in America they don't have to disclose their identities.

Besides, the reason the Civil War took place is because someone had the gall to say no to Captain America. If the entire JLA is united the US government won't have the momentum to turn the people against them.

And even if they did, like say setting it where Luthor was still President (and there's no way the JLA would be suspiscious of that, is there) many of them are used to operating outside of the law and even being hunted in their early careers.

Batman was a prime example of this. Until he saved Gordon's son from drowning, he didn't have a single friend or ally in the Gotham PD. He earned their respect over time, but he wasn't given it out of hand the way Superman was. Same thing with Green Arrow, he was considered a vigilante at the start of his career, which is illegal.

That's why I think the concept is so ridiculous in the DC-verse. Even if it happened, you have the hero community already divided into those with no secret identity, like Wonder Woman and Aquaman, and those that are darn good a going undreground and keeping out of sight, like Batman and Green Arrow. The only one that would really be bothered is Superman.

Of course that brings up the potential for speculation on just what a DC Civil War-verse (Other than Kingdom Come) would be like.

 

[Flamewolf]

the only thing we can know is that the side batman is on will win

 

[grant]

I'd say that he gets a bit too much hype. Genius and rich he may be but some of the characters qualify as humanoid superpowers*. Heck, Aquaman practically owns a superpower. Plus, Batman seems no more able than the rest to keep himself from getting brainwashed at the strangest times.


* The political term.

 

[DhampyrX2]

Well, when even Darkseid figured he'd try making Bruce into a living bomb set to go off when Bruce returned to the present time because he knew Bruce was so stubborn that even throwing him into prehistoric times wouldn't kill him...

Although the less said about what is coming after that, the better. I can hardly wait the newest retcon to get Damian out of the cave and Tim back in the Robin suit where he belongs.

 

[zeebee1]

Or just age Tim so the next time this happens he can play the boss.

 

[sworded]

Or just age Tim so the next time this happens he can play the boss.

Yay, <a href='http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Titans_Tomorrow' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Titans Tomorrow</a>.

 

[Prince Charon]

Well, when even Darkseid figured he'd try making Bruce into a living bomb set to go off when Bruce returned to the present time because he knew Bruce was so stubborn that even throwing him into prehistoric times wouldn't kill him...

Although the less said about what is coming after that, the better.? I can hardly wait the newest retcon to get Damian out of the cave and Tim back in the Robin suit where he belongs.

... or Steph back into the Robin suit, and Cassie as Batgirl again.

 

[DhampyrX2]

Well, when even Darkseid figured he'd try making Bruce into a living bomb set to go off when Bruce returned to the present time because he knew Bruce was so stubborn that even throwing him into prehistoric times wouldn't kill him...

Although the less said about what is coming after that, the better.á I can hardly wait the newest retcon to get Damian out of the cave and Tim back in the Robin suit where he belongs.

... or Steph back into the Spoiler Suit, Tim in the Robin suit, and Cassie as Batgirl again.

Fixed.

 

[Prince Charon]

Well, when even Darkseid figured he'd try making Bruce into a living bomb set to go off when Bruce returned to the present time because he knew Bruce was so stubborn that even throwing him into prehistoric times wouldn't kill him...

Although the less said about what is coming after that, the better.á I can hardly wait the newest retcon to get Damian out of the cave and Tim back in the Robin suit where he belongs.

... or Steph back into the Spoiler Suit, Tim in the Robin suit, and Cassie as Batgirl again.

Fixed.

I'd rather have Tim as Nightwing, or some original hero-name, really.