Naruto Elemental Combinations

[Knyght]

To be honest, whilst I can see the logic behind Phase Release, it doesn't really give me an elemental 'vibe'. It feels more like an advanced ninjutsu you could create without any nature transformation. As is, it's like if the Hiding in Camouflage jutsu was created by using Wind and Water - distorting light and scent through the atmosphere - and calling it Mirage Release. But it's not like I have any ideas other than Erosion/Corrosion Release and maybe Metal/Steel Release.

Anyway, I was trawling through some theories and someone pointed out an interesting pattern:

Ice is primarily Water, and secondarily Wind.
Boil is primarily Water, and secondarily Fire.
Scorch is primarily Fire, and secondarily Wind.
Explosion is primarily Fire, and secondarily Lightning.
Lava is primarily Earth, and secondarily Fire.
Wood is primarily Earth, and secondarily Water.
Magnetism is primarily Wind, and secondarily Earth.
Storm is primarily Lightning, and secondarily Water.

So each element becomes the primary element in two combinations or the secondary in two others. It's something to do with the power balance between them but I couldn't really wrap my head around it when I was skimming. That would make the last two:

[Unknown] is primarily Wind, and secondarily Lightning.
[Unknown] is primarily Lightning, and secondarily Earth.

First one fits my Thunder Release (and was even the hypothetical example used) but the other one made me think of Storm Release and gave me the odd idea of something like solid energy constructs.

 

[The Vale]

that secondary characteristic seems to be easily explained by the element wheel - primary followed by two secondary as an effect of the element primary weakening the secondary element in the combination.

as for wind-lightening the non-physical characteristics of both put me more towards an energy excitation direction like laser/light or plasma though neither really fit.

 

[Knyght]

I've thought about light but I'm not sure what it could do that isn't already covered by Lightning and Storm Release since blinding flashes and laser are the usual M.O. Bending light for invisibility is covered by Hiding in Camouflage (and probably Jiraiya's Transparency Escape) and holograms are kinda the same but in reverse, so they're more regular uses of chakra.

What would a Plasma Release be like?

 

[trevelyan1983]

For the Lightning and Wind combination, I'd suggest something that's more supplementary than offensive - like, thunderclaps, or positive/negative charged wind blasts.

Magnetize your opponents weaponry, or deafen every shinobi on the battlefield, or make the air itself unable to carry electrical chakra or natural lighning, or redirect lightning techniques to a target of your choice.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

We do know the Lava Release is written differently depending on who is using it... maybe one is Earth+Fire the other is Fire+Earth?

 

[Altered Nova]

To be honest, whilst I can see the logic behind Phase Release, it doesn't really give me an elemental 'vibe'. It feels more like an advanced ninjutsu you could create without any nature transformation. As is, it's like if the Hiding in Camouflage jutsu was created by using Wind and Water - distorting light and scent through the atmosphere - and calling it Mirage Release. But it's not like I have any ideas other than Erosion/Corrosion Release and maybe Metal/Steel Release.

That's a fair enough point. Although actually Metal Release sounds pretty good for Lightning + Earth to me. Earth provides the raw ore, Lighting refines the ore into pure metal through electrolysis.

(Electrolysis is a method of using a direct electric current (DC) to drive an otherwise non-spontaneous chemical reaction, including the separation of elements from natural sources such as ores. It is used in the production of aluminium, lithium, sodium, potassium, magnesium and calcium.)

Although that might make more sense if Earth was the primary element and Lightning was the secondary. Not sure if that messes up your advanced elements theory.

I'm wondering whether Chakra only begins to take on properties such as having actual weight when it's present in sufficient quantities. We've only heard people talk about "heavy chakra" in extreme cases. Hiruzen damaging that roof-top with his aura, the Tailed Beasts, etc. It could be that, until a certain threshold is passed, chakra doesn't have mass.

Frankly to me the idea that chakra only gains mass after a certain point seems even weirder than the idea that it would naturally have any mass at all. What's the threshold? Why is there a threshold? It's just strange.

Also I found an example of someone talking about chakra weight in less extreme cases. Here Tsunade mentions the "weight" of the chakra in Naruto's rasengan.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Well, yeah, but expecting the fuel for a ninja magic system to obey the laws of physics also seems a little strange to me. I mean, 1/2 of it is comprised by "spiritual energy."

For example, the chakra circulatory system is everywhere in the body. I always thought that it was partially or fully intangible, overlapping other physical parts of the body like muscles and organs. But if chakra has mass, then the anatomy of a Narutoverse inhabitant must be wildly different from a normal persons. Hell, the CCS even extends into the brain! If chakra has mass, then putting someone under a genjutsu should give them a stroke or something!

 

[Knyght]

To be honest, whilst I can see the logic behind Phase Release, it doesn't really give me an elemental 'vibe'. It feels more like an advanced ninjutsu you could create without any nature transformation. As is, it's like if the Hiding in Camouflage jutsu was created by using Wind and Water - distorting light and scent through the atmosphere - and calling it Mirage Release. But it's not like I have any ideas other than Erosion/Corrosion Release and maybe Metal/Steel Release.

That's a fair enough point. Although actually Metal Release sounds pretty good for Lightning + Earth to me. Earth provides the raw ore, Lighting refines the ore into pure metal through electrolysis.

(Electrolysis is a method of using a direct electric current (DC) to drive an otherwise non-spontaneous chemical reaction, including the separation of elements from natural sources such as ores. It is used in the production of aluminium, lithium, sodium, potassium, magnesium and calcium.)

Although that might make more sense if Earth was the primary element and Lightning was the secondary. Not sure if that messes up your advanced elements theory.

The thing that bothered me about Metal Release is how it steps on the same territory as Magnet Release. I'd expect Metal Release to be able to pull off feats like controlling iron sand and gold dust, essentially covering most of the feats we've seen Magnet Release. Plus Magnet Release would be blatantly superior to Metal Release more often than not, though you could probably say the same with Lava Release and Ice Release or Wood Release.

 

[Altered Nova]

Well, yeah, but expecting the fuel for a ninja magic system to obey the laws of physics also seems a little strange to me. I mean, 1/2 of it is comprised by "spiritual energy."

For example, the chakra circulatory system is everywhere in the body. I always thought that it was partially or fully intangible, overlapping other physical parts of the body like muscles and organs. But if chakra has mass, then the anatomy of a Narutoverse inhabitant must be wildly different from a normal persons. Hell, the CCS even extends into the brain! If chakra has mass, then putting someone under a genjutsu should give them a stroke or something!

That's kind of a funny objection, because I've assumed ever since the chakra circulatory system was introduced that Narutoverse humans *do* have wildly different anatomy from real world humans. I mean many aspects of chakra usage, including capacity, control and affinities, are clearly to a great degree inherited. And genetic mutations like the various kekkei genkai can give people instinctual supernatural control over their own physical bodies in ways that defy belief. When people like Kimimaro and Sakon and Ukon running around, I have no issue with believing that Narutoverse humans are functionally a different species from us.

And I wouldn't be surprised if there are genjutsu that can give people strokes. Itachi put people into comas with his genjutsu!

The thing that bothered me about Metal Release is how it steps on the same territory as Magnet Release. I'd expect Metal Release to be able to pull off feats like controlling iron sand and gold dust, essentially covering most of the feats we've seen Magnet Release. Plus Magnet Release would be blatantly superior to Metal Release more often than not, though you could probably say the same with Lava Release and Ice Release or Wood Release.

Metal Release would be considerably more versatile than Magnet Release. Magnet Release can only telekinetically control metal and requires an already existing source of real metal to weaponize. But Metal Release would let you transform your own chakra directly into metal, transmute your body into metal, create metal clones, etc. Sure there would be a lot of overlap, but you could take the concept much farther with Metal Release.

For example, you could manipulate many different kinds of metal with Metal release, whereas each user of Magnet Release seems to be limited to one very specific substance. You could poison people with mercury, counter fire jutsu with the extremely high melting point of tungsten, combine sodium with water jutsu for a nifty attack (sodium is a very strange metal that literally catches fire and explodes when exposed to water), use niobium-titanium alloys to create superconductors for empowering lightning jutsu, use gallium to embrittle your opponent's metal weapons and armors so that they break easily... hell you could potentially even use uranium and plutonium to create nuclear explosions.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Well, yeah, but expecting the fuel for a ninja magic system to obey the laws of physics also seems a little strange to me. I mean, 1/2 of it is comprised by "spiritual energy."

For example, the chakra circulatory system is everywhere in the body. I always thought that it was partially or fully intangible, overlapping other physical parts of the body like muscles and organs. But if chakra has mass, then the anatomy of a Narutoverse inhabitant must be wildly different from a normal persons. Hell, the CCS even extends into the brain! If chakra has mass, then putting someone under a genjutsu should give them a stroke or something!

That's kind of a funny objection, because I've assumed ever since the chakra circulatory system was introduced that Narutoverse humans *do* have wildly different anatomy from real world humans. I mean many aspects of chakra usage, including capacity, control and affinities, are clearly to a great degree inherited. And genetic mutations like the various kekkei genkai can give people instinctual supernatural control over their own physical bodies in ways that defy belief. When people like Kimimaro and Sakon and Ukon running around, I have no issue with believing that Narutoverse humans are functionally a different species from us.

And I wouldn't be surprised if there are genjutsu that can give people strokes. Itachi put people into comas with his genjutsu!

Look at this.

I mean... how? The Skeleton, the Muscular System, the Nervous System... it would all be horribly compromised if the Chakra Pathways are tangible. There just isn't space without a massive sacrifice in physical ability. Hell, Wolverine only has metal covering his bones! And the Hyuga! Why are they so badass when a civilian with a scalpel could surgically remove part of a circulatory system?

Besides, isn't part of why the tailed beasts (except Shukaku) are so impressive is that they're physical masses of chakra? When Naruto went 8-tails against Nagato, he had everything except skin and fur (and one more tail.) If all chakra has mass, then why did Kurama mimic physical musculature like that?

Hell, what about the Shinju? Before the Sage's mother ate the Chakura no Mi, nobody had chakra! If Naruto-verse inhabitants looked the same before recieving the Sage's teachings, how come they aren't all physically deformed due to an entirely new vascular system developing within them?

 

[Knyght]

The thing that bothered me about Metal Release is how it steps on the same territory as Magnet Release. I'd expect Metal Release to be able to pull off feats like controlling iron sand and gold dust, essentially covering most of the feats we've seen Magnet Release. Plus Magnet Release would be blatantly superior to Metal Release more often than not, though you could probably say the same with Lava Release and Ice Release or Wood Release.

Metal Release would be considerably more versatile than Magnet Release. Magnet Release can only telekinetically control metal and requires an already existing source of real metal to weaponize. But Metal Release would let you transform your own chakra directly into metal, transmute your body into metal, create metal clones, etc. Sure there would be a lot of overlap, but you could take the concept much farther with Metal Release.

For example, you could manipulate many different kinds of metal with Metal release, whereas each user of Magnet Release seems to be limited to one very specific substance. You could poison people with mercury, counter fire jutsu with the extremely high melting point of tungsten, combine sodium with water jutsu for a nifty attack (sodium is a very strange metal that literally catches fire and explodes when exposed to water), use niobium-titanium alloys to create superconductors for empowering lightning jutsu, use gallium to embrittle your opponent's metal weapons and armors so that they break easily... hell you could potentially even use uranium and plutonium to create nuclear explosions.

Consider me converted. [Edit: Magnet Release + Metal Release would be a sight to see.]

I wonder if Magnet Release's limitation is something like an affinity. They're automatically attuned to a specific substance so when they create magnetic chakra, that's the only one that responds. They have to consciously learn to control other substances but as long as they have or can find their own substance, it isn't a necessity. So they use their magnetized substance as their main weapon and usually learn to control the metal that makes up common weaponry for broader usage but don't go beyond that.