Nasuverse Emiya Shirou...The Lancer?

[ksho]

Just saw this clip of Shirou's UBW from the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5NBS6svfaY&feature=related

At the end...some of the weapons in UBW were highlighted. What surprised me was among the weapons highlighted was Gae Bolg and a Chinese Ji (Halberd) - Which according to the data books, was a noble phantasm that belonged to Lu Bu from the 3 kingdoms era (I don't quite remember the name though)

So it seems that UBW does not only trace swords...but ALL bladed weapons. Does that mean Shirou is proficient in the use of lances as well?

 

[Mereo Flere]

Yes. He can trace armor too, though it's at a higher cost of prana.

 

[ksho]

Thanks!!

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

As I understand it as long has a blade on it and he traces it, it'll appear in the UBW. There's a reason that it's called the Unlimited Blade Works.

 

[andaandyckas]

As I understand it as long has a blade on it and he traces it, it'll appear in the UBW. There's a reason that it's called the Unlimited Blade Works.

Oh. So...... If we change it into Unlimited Blacksmithing Works, what do you think will happens?

 

[windfalcon]

Y'know.. with UBW, Shirou qualifies for pretty much all the Classes..

Archer is obvious, Saber is a given, and now Lancer. Add to this Mage due to obvious reasons.

Rider... that one is a bit iffy and is the only one I can't justify, unless future Shirou took to riding motorcycles all the time. Assassin can be explained by another AU Shirou using his abilities to become one for an organization, and Berserker?

.... I'd hate to imagine a crazed Shirou with UBW at his beck and call.

Of course... Avenger works as well I think, but then Avenger isn't a proper class, is it?

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[ksho]

Stats can vary from Master to Master, but given Rin's high capacity, they aren't going to get any better. Going by what Archer's stats are (which should be Shirou at his maximum potential)...

Strength: D Magic: B
Endurance: C Luck: E
Agility: C Noble Phantasm: ??

We can immediately discard Saber, Lancer, (probably) Rider, <s>and Caster</s> right off the bat. Why? Because EMIYA's stats suck. We can discard/keep Berserker if you go for canon material or not. Assassin is also out due to Shirou not being of the Hashshashin order. Avenger, I hope I don't have to say anything about (i.e., NO).

This is, of course, only if you're following canon material.

EDIT: Actually, I take that back about Caster. He could conceivably be summoned as one, but he'd really, really suck.

Well...according to wikipedia, the "Simple" ending of Heaven's Feel had Shirou unleashing the true power of Kanshou & Bakuya to defeat Dark Saber after he failed to make a contract with Rider. The downside of this was that he went completely out of his mind after doing so.

While I personally haven't seen this ending, so I can't comment on any of the details...wouldn't this event make Shirou qualified for the Beserker class?




On a completely unrelated note, who do you guys think are the 3 best lancers? When Emiya was fighting Cu Chulainn...he made a comment that he could guess what Lancer's true identity was based on the fact that there were only 3 lancers who were that good. And out of those three, only one had the type of Animal agility Cu Chulainn was displaying.

Now we can make an educated guess and assume that Lu Bu is one of the 3best lancers...based on the fact that his aforementioned noble phantasm was the only lance like weapon to appear in the games and his supposed skill and invincibility during the 3 kingdoms era.

Who do you guys think is the third then? I refuse to believe it's Diarmuid from Fate/Zero. Any guesses?

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[Steel]

And I'd guess the third lancer is probably Lancelot.

 

[ttestagr]

The third is probably whoever first used Gugnir before Gilgamesh took it. It is the predecessor to Lancer's weapon.

 

[zeebee1]

If you mean gungir then the first Lancer was Odin.

 

[Lanceavalon]

Yes. He can trace armor too, though it's at a higher cost of prana.

The µgis (Greek ?????), already attested in the Iliad, is the shield or buckler of Zeus, which according to Homer was fashioned for him by Hephaestus, furnished with golden tassels and bearing the Gorgoneion (Medusa's head) in the central boss. The Attic vase-painters retained an archaic tradition that the tassels had originally been serpents in their representations of the µgis.

When the Olympian shakes the µgis, Mount Ida is wrapped in clouds, the thunder rolls and men are struck down with fear. "ãgis-bearing Zeus", as he is in the Iliad, sometimes lends it to Athena and also to Apollo, although rarely. In the Iliad Zeus sends Apollo to revive the wounded Hector of Troy and, holding the µgis, Apollo charges the Achaeans, pushing them back to their ships drawn up on the shore. According to Edith Hamilton's Mythology: Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes [1], the Aegis is Zeus' breastplate, and was "awful to behold."-Wiki

Why hasn't anyone thought of using 'The shield Aegis" in a fic before considering medusa is part of its legend.

 

[Moshulel]

Using Aegis would involve getting Perseus around to do it, (the Shinji who succeeded according to Rider) since gods can't be summoned as heroes (this also means that Odin is not the first lancer) and that guy would be seriously packed with Noble Phantasms.

 

[toraneko]

Now we can make an educated guess and assume that Lu Bu is one of the 3best lancers...based on the fact that his aforementioned noble phantasm was the only lance like weapon to appear in the games and his supposed skill and invincibility during the 3 kingdoms era.

Already ran through that idea before. Long story short, any class other than Rider would not be Lu Bu Fengxian at his best. He might or might not qualify for Lancer (remember, just using a spear or such doesn't make one Lancer material), though he could theoretically work as a Berserker, or possibly even Saber (he was known for not having any real weaknesses in battle, remember).

I posted an invented write-up of Lu Bu as Rider in another F/SN thread a long time ago.

Anyway, bottom line, it's just not Lu Bu without both his Lunar Spear and Red Hare. Thus, Rider.

Or maybe Saber, if any bladed weapon counts.

 

[shade89]

We can immediately discard Saber, Lancer, (probably) Rider, and Caster right off the bat. Why? Because EMIYA's stats suck. We can discard/keep Berserker if you go for canon material or not. Assassin is also out due to Shirou not being of the Hashshashin order. Avenger, I hope I don't have to say anything about (i.e., NO).

Consider Gilgamesh in fate/zero he was summoned as an archer when his stats alone should have placed in the saber or berserker class maybe even lancer.

I think it's the type of individual who summons the servant that influences the class, I mean the only long range attack he has is shooting all his swords which is just an over kill attack no accuracies.

I agree no way emiya could be an assasin or beserker, but you can't go by stats alone. cause statistically archer could never kill heracles, which he did for 5-6 times before he died.

On a side note anyone know who the Black Knight is cause I'm going for gawain,modred or lancelot.

 

[sigfried27]

We can immediately discard Saber, Lancer, (probably) Rider, and Caster right off the bat. Why? Because EMIYA's stats suck. We can discard/keep Berserker if you go for canon material or not. Assassin is also out due to Shirou not being of the Hashshashin order. Avenger, I hope I don't have to say anything about (i.e., NO).

Consider Gilgamesh in fate/zero he was summoned as an archer when his stats alone should have placed in the saber or berserker class maybe even lancer.

I think it's the type of individual who summons the servant that influences the class, I mean the only long range attack he has is shooting all his swords which is just an over kill attack no accuracies.

I agree no way emiya could be an assasin or beserker, but you can't go by stats alone. cause statistically archer could never kill heracles, which he did for 5-6 times before he died.

On a side note anyone know who the Black Knight is cause I'm going for gawain,modred or lancelot.

You can't go by stats alone in a battle, no, because skills and noble phantasms make a difference. However, yes, stats can be used to determine class. As was listed earlier, some classes simply have stat requirements.

The master can have an effect on what class the servant is, as is seen by Ilya's summoning of Berserker. Heracles would have been better as a different class, but Ilya stated a need to summon him as a Berserker, though I can't recall if the reason was because she couldn't control him otherwise or something else. However, while the master can effect what class they summon, they can not make a servant a class which they can't belong to, to their control is limited. Rin was aiming to summon a saber class, but ended up with Archer. I'm not sure of details, but I believe she was using an artifact that resulted in the summoning of the future Shirou, but since he can not be a Saber class by stats, Rin's attempt at summoning the Saber class failed. Granted, I may have a number of things wrong in this example, but the point is that a masters control over class is limited.

As for Gilgamesh...his stats really aren't all that high. His Agility is not high enough to be a lancer. Under Tokiomi, his stats might be high enough to pass as a saber, but I can't really say for certain. As for Berserker, it doesn't have stat requirements, it has other requirements instead. Wether Gilgamesh has met those requirements or not, I've no idea. Though his stats are not bad, they are not particularly exemplary either, but he makes up for it with powerful skills and noble phantasms.

 

[toraneko]

Rin herself was the catalyst that made her summon EMIYA. The Tohsaka Rin from EMIYA's timeline was closely connected to him.

The Knight classes (Saber, Lancer, Rider) have base ability score prerequisites. The Archer class seems to merely require the ability to use a long-range Noble Phantasm. Caster also has a base ability score requirement, as well as requiring the Noble Soul be adept at magic use. Berserker has no stat requirements, and needs no Noble Phantasms, but the Noble Soul seems to have to have gone insane/berserk sometime in their legend. Assassins can only be drawn from the 17 Al-Hahshihshin (or however that's spelled).

Herakles would've kicked much more ass as Saber or Archer. He's got the stats for Saber, but he'd really shine as Archer, since Herakles was well-known for his archery skills - in Type-Moon, he even had a Noble Phantasm-level archery technique (kinda like how Kojiro's Tsubame-gaeshi was a technique on the level of a minor NP). Ilya probably just wanted his stats as absurdly high as she could get 'em, but I'm not certain.

shade, Gil was actually quite capable of being pinpoint accurate when firing weapons out of the Gates of Babylon. He just usually didn't care to go to all that trouble, when he could just machine-gun pointy things at his enemies forever.

Also "by stats alone he could never kill herakles" - you're missing part of the point. By "stats", we mean more like the base ability scores in Dungeons and Dragons. STR, INT, CON, and the like. EMIYA's base scores may have been low, but he had a nice big collection of replicated Noble Phantasms to throw at his opponents - in some cases literally. And since he can remake any NPs he blows up, this lets him "safely" use Broken Phantasms - exploding Noble Phantasms to turn their specialness into sheer destructive power. It's pretty much turning a NP into a small nuke.

One constant in the Type-Moon world is that base ability scores alone cannot determine the outcome of a battle. It's how one uses those, and what tricks one has in his bag, that matters.

 

[shout27]

True, it's like saying a L10 Fighter will always beat a L10 Rogue in an even fight with fair play, when we all know the Rogue is going to do his best to Sneak behind the Fighter and go for a Backstab. . .

 

[Fatuous One]

???