Forum Improvements

marthf1

Well-Known Member
How do people feel about post content following right after another instead of being broken up by the name, posts, joined, & reputation inset?

For example, on the regular site, post content follow direct after another & poster information follow direct after another without breaking into each other, so for me, it's easier to read in a batch. On this site, it feels more cluttered. Though, admittedly, it also could be the themes' color choices - Light Default is so-so & Fallback is painful.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
Go to your userCP, settings (or options) and switch to Classic Mode.
 
PCHeintz72 said:
While I do not see why websites which are mostly meant for full screen computing should cater to the sub 10" gadget level devices[...]
An attitude which baffles me to no end. Last I checked, content was for people; devices merely the distribution vector.

And there's nothing magical or sacrosanct about the (terrible) layout of the UBB-style forum; it's basically Usenet with worse emoticons. It was acceptable in the late `90's, but these things have been looking rather crufty for quite a while now.


Shirotsume said:
For the mobile theme, the problem is that this site requires things that many mobiles don't support- like images, CSS, and in some cases javascript.
Non-issue. Smartphones account for about half of all mobiles (and climbing fast...), and are factory-equipped with some variant of Webkit-derived browser. (Ditto for every tablet.) Of the remaining feature phones now sold, most seem to have licensed Opera, rendering them fully HTML5-capable. The smattering of dumb-phones don't matter.

The bad old days of WAP are (thankfully) behind us.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
You literally just pulled so much out of your ass just now that you probably can reschedule any colonoscopies for a later date. :p

It's not a non-issue because the site doesn't work for people. The font is too small even for a web-kit derived browser, the links are derped, and hovers are, of course, broken. And that's only half the userbase- the other half AREN'T on smartphones. The 'bad old days' of WAP are still here, and to just blow off the people still dealing with it is a massive mistake for a website.
 

rdde

Well-Known Member
Do you have any statistics on nTFF's mobile user base?
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
Neither this forum nor icyboards, should be held accountable for the potential combination of limitations inherent in all the various gadget level devices.

If an attempt is made beyond basics (plugin/theme), and it does not work on all devices, those with those devices which are not working are going to be a pain, even if it is because they cannot view it on their already outdated 4" 4 year old phone...
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
1. Android 162
2. iOS 118
3. BlackBerry 2
3. (not set) 2
4. Windows Phone 1

Keep in mind- these are everyone that are running a non-webkit phone. Google doesn't consider webkit phones 'mobile' since they can display pages correctly, in most cases.

1. 768x1024 74
2. 360x640 51
3. 720x1280 39
4. 320x480 36
5. 540x960 31
6. 320x568 7
7. 320x455 4
8. 1280x720 3
9. 360x607 3
10. 480x800 2
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Blackberry and Windows Phone...ouch.
 
Shirotsume said:
You literally just pulled so much out of your ass just now that you probably can reschedule any colonoscopies for a later date. :p
Sure, I'll play...

It's not a non-issue because the site doesn't work for people. The font is too small even for a web-kit derived browser, the links are derped, and hovers are, of course, broken.
A pre-rolled theme, a mobile-specific plugin, or some CSS can fix the fonts. The links all work fine on everything I've tried here. (More devices than I care to admit to owning...)

There are hovers?... Oh, look; mouse over forums and they show thread counts. Delightful. Am I missing anything?

And that's only half the userbase- the other half AREN'T on smartphones. The 'bad old days' of WAP are still here, and to just blow off the people still dealing with it is a massive mistake for a website.
In search of a non-representative sample, I perused my carrier's selection of non-smart phones. Of the 10 models (ignoring cameraless variants), I see 3 with the full Opera browser -- 1 of those Flash-capable, apparently -- 3 with Opera Mini, 2 dumbphones, and 2 with non-specific "mobile web".

For shits `n giggles, I downloaded Opera Mini to see if it was up to the task. Ironically, it actually renders the forum more consistently than Chrome on Android. CSS themes worked exactly as they should. The only significant problems I found in it are that the WYSIWYG post editor is very broken, and the UserCP can be fiddly to get into. Oh, and I'm sure multi-quote doesn't work, but since it appears to be broken in the default forum theme, we couldn't fairly hold that against it. Everything else appears to just work, even if it is very(!) tiny. Full Opera should obviously work even better than the Mini version, so I feel no need to test it.

That leaves the remaining 2 WAP phones out of 10 feature phones. And those WAP users have obviously not once attempted to access the forums, because every WAP device that I've ever seen on any carrier has a screen resolution of no more than 400x240, and your posted metrics show that nothing under 480x320 has even attempted to cross the threshold. I guarantee that has nothing to do with the usability of the site on WAP, and everything to do with WAP's fundamental unusability. It's serviceable for Googling phone numbers and addresses, and little more -- it takes a special breed of masochist to attempt to do anything more substantive on the platform.


So, low bar remains: Opera Mini @ 320x480, though I don't know how much need there is to focus on that specifically, as any improvement in handheld layout should trickle down to that platform. What mobile needs is a content-centric layout with large touch-targets and proper font scaling.

Incidentally, having the user information in headers between posts is much better for handheld devices; it avoids bolting a mostly-empty column onto the side of the actual content, and scrolling an extra inch is no great hardship.

If you could just make a theme where the CSS defines the font-size in scalable units, rather than px, it'd do wonders for allowing mobile browsers to manage scaling on their own. At least then it would stop looking like this in both Chrome and Firefox for Android when they attempt to scale things for mobile:


(actual size: about 3" on diagonal)
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
To play devils advocate...

A forum is not like a number of sites like FF.NET where it is merely archiving and providing for reading, there is a *lot* of functionality that needs to be present and displayed on the page... fitting that in on device with a screen a couple inches is several orders of magnitude harder than a 10"+ screen.

Combine that with the disparity in capabilities and support, and you have a nightmare for web sites.

Here is a snippet from a article on designing sites for mobile devices (aka what I call gadget level devices):

What to Avoid When Designing for Mobile

There are several things you should avoid when building a mobile friendly page. As I mentioned above, if you really want to have these on your page, you can, but make sure that the site works without them.
•Flash—most mobile phones do not support Flash, so it’s not a good idea to include it on your wireless pages.
•Cookies—many cell phones have no cookie support. iPhones do have cookie support.
•Frames - even if the browser supports them, think about the dimensions of the screen. Frames just don’t work on mobile devices - they’re very difficult or impossible to read.
•Tables—don’t use tables for layout on a mobile page. And try to avoid tables in general. They aren’t supported on every cellphone (although iPhones and other smartphones support them) and you can end up with strange results.
•Nested tables—if you must use a table, make sure not to nest it in another table. These are difficult for desktop browsers to support, and at best make the page load more slowly.
•Absolute measures—in other words, don’t define the dimensions of objects in absolute sizes (like pixels, millimeters, or inches). If you define something as 100px wide, on one mobile device that might be half the screen and on another it might be two times the width. Relative sizes (like ems and percentages) work best.
•Fonts—don’t assume that any of the fonts you’re used to having access to will be available on the cell phones.
Forums might as well gut their feature lists, considering how much the above items are used and considered standard.

Additionally, while many sites do not have recommendations on resolutions, some do... of those that do, most state a bottom line of 1024x768 for best viewing, a few state 800x600. One must also factor in SIGs and advertisements.

I am seeing a *lot* of phones with either extreme small sizes or extreme low resolutions...

Based on research, I would state browsing and forum going *for me* would be too much a pain to bother with on :
- Anything below about 4.5" screen
- Anything below 800x600 on a 4:3 aspect ratio
- Anything below 1024x576 on a 16:9 aspect ratio
- Any browser less than a full mobile one, (mini browsers for me would be right out, So Opera Mobile would be acceptable but not Opera Mini to give one example).

All that combined is why I suggested merely getting a gadget level device centric theme or plugin if available, rather than put any work into it...

Sigh... there is a reason they are called by me gadget level devices... and why overall I have such a low opinion of them beyond their costs (physically and in contract).
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
>Colonoscopy joke
>Xenoproctologist
>whoosh?


I've already stated that I'm looking to a plugin that would make the site mobile friendly. And please don't assume it's a 'little' bit of CSS I need to fix. We're talking about 2MB of straight CSS/XML per theme. This is why we're not going to support many themes, because I have to manually fix 2MB of shit for every theme.

As for the rest of your post... facts are facts. Nearly 300 people connect to this site with a non-webkit phone, no matter what your carrier offers.
 

TFF_Admin

Administrator
Staff member
Changed the tag so that embedded images cannot be larger than 500px by 500px. This can be changed to larger if need be, but we no longer have to worry about images that break the site/take too long to scroll past.

If you want to see the original image in all it's glory, just click on it.
 

Jorlem

Well-Known Member
Would it be possible to make the text entry field for making new replies (not quick replies) a bit wider? It just feels cramped to me, and there's this big unused space to the right of the entry field that goes to the edge of the page. It just feels off, unbalanced.
 
Jorlem said:
Would it be possible to make the text entry field for making new replies (not quick replies) a bit wider? It just feels cramped to me, and there's this big unused space to the right of the entry field that goes to the edge of the page. It just feels off, unbalanced.
Click and drag the bottom right corner, with the two diagonal bars, to where you want it to be.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
NuitTombee said:
Jorlem said:
Would it be possible to make the text entry field for making new replies (not quick replies) a bit wider? It just feels cramped to me, and there's this big unused space to the right of the entry field that goes to the edge of the page. It just feels off, unbalanced.
Click and drag the bottom right corner, with the two diagonal bars, to where you want it to be.
Ehhh... what are you talking about... that box is not resizable, at least not in either IE or Opera...
 
PCHeintz72 said:
NuitTombee said:
Jorlem said:
Would it be possible to make the text entry field for making new replies (not quick replies) a bit wider? It just feels cramped to me, and there's this big unused space to the right of the entry field that goes to the edge of the page. It just feels off, unbalanced.
Click and drag the bottom right corner, with the two diagonal bars, to where you want it to be.
Ehhh... what are you talking about... that box is not resizable, at least not in either IE or Opera...
I dunno about IE, but it's definitely there in Opera.

http://i.imgur.com/sEHTdKP.png
http://i.imgur.com/hOw4D5D.png

Edit: Replace with links.
 
Can you see that it's the Opera browser and that the text field has indeed been widened?

Replaced them with links.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
NuitTombee said:
Can you see that it's the Opera browser and that the text field has indeed been widened?

Replaced them with links.
I wonder if that functionality was changed between when I posted my original issue with it (one of the very first posts I made here in fact) and now... because I really could not get it to do that in either IE or Opera... now it does allow it in Opera, but not IE... I know admin looked at it at least twice, but do not know what he did either time.
 
I've always had it in Chrome, for both Reply and Quick Reply. Can't say for sure for Opera, but I'd assume it was.

I can't recall a forum in which I can't use the resize function.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
I've always had it, and I never touched that function.
 

rdde

Well-Known Member
That textarea resize thing is browser dependent. It might be possible to reimplement the same feature for browsers that do not support it with some fancy JavaScript, but I haven't seen it.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to change that the forum puts up an announcement of sorts when you edit a post?
 

rdde

Well-Known Member
@[Shirotsume]/@[TFF_Admin]
Currently seeing the "The specified thread does not exist." in Your Daily...Thing! with 50 posts per page view.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
So I've been dicking around.. and a recount/rebuild *might* fix the issue with the last page not showing up. The downside is that it's going to kill the forum for a little bit, and anyone whose postcount I manually edited is going to be reset.

Also, don't tag TFF_Admin. There's usually no one on it, because there's usually no need for admin powers.
 
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