Game of Thrones/Song of Ice and Fire Discussion

[zerohour]

A place to discuss both the book series, and the TV series for A Song of Ice and Fire/ Game of Thrones.

Since we're all readers here, I think spoiler marks need only be saved for "A Dance with Dragons."


First things first: Does George hate happy endings? It seems that good characters always come to a bad end. I've read a couple other stories of his, and they all seem to end with people unhappy.

On the other hand, he has great character development, and even the people I'm rooting against have some good qualities for the most part. Even people who seem like complete and utter bastards can be redeemed or justified, and people you think are decent folk can turn around and fuck you over.



Good people who I think currently have plot immunity:
-Bran & Arya: Their current plot development is invested and hasn't had any significant payoff yet. They'll probably live awhile longer, but once they actually start doing things, there's a decent chance for death
-Danerys: She hasn't really interacted with Westeros, so I'm assuming that until she starts, or her actions have some major, visible effect, that she won't die.


People I'm rooting for:

Spoiler

-Arya: I fully expect her to die, but I think she'll take a significant portion of her hit list with her.
-Petyr Baelish: He's a bastard, but he's good at what he does. I will savor his eventual death as much as I enjoy watching him take full advantage of whatever presents itself.
-Tyrion: He's a boss, and he's managed to wrangle an army.
Danerys: Because Dragons.
Jon Snow: Assuming he's not dead.
Sam: Because he might become a wizard, and he's a friendly kind of guy.
Jaime: Again, assuming he's not dead, he's making strides at redeeming himself from who he used to be.

 

[pidl]

Mhm, I stopped halfway the third book so I'm surprised there are still characters alive who were introduced in the first one.

The reason I stopped was the fact that nothing really happened and the things that did happen were caused by characters suddenly losing 80 IQ points and become suicidally retarded, especially Robb.

 

[Mithranir]

I don't know if saying that old George hates happy endings is exactly the right way to phrase it, necessarily. I am pretty sure that he doesn't BELIEVE in them, though. I've read some interviews he did in the wake of the Red Wedding episode, (Here it is) and his answers, while sensible, don't strike me as particularly indicative of a story that ends any other way than bittersweetly.

Keeping that in mind, I think that Bran, Arya and Danerys are probably safe at least for now. I'm of the camp that believes that Danerys probably fulfills at least a couple of those prophecies that are floating about, and I agree with zerohours reasoning regarding Bran and Arya. I'd LIKE Tommen and Myrcella to survive, but I strongly doubt it's going to happen.

 

[brew]

For all that some people argue that the series is some huge trope bender, I think in the end it's going to end up with Jon Snow answering most of the issues with the prince who was promised, Azor Ali ect ect. Will it be the typical ending? most likely not, but I don't think the series is going to be a huge counterpoint to every other major fantasy series. For every prophesy you can spin it either way to the point where it's referring to Rhaegar, who's dead and therefore the prophecy is pointless.
As far as a bittersweet ending i'll bet that it'll be more along the lines that you can't change people and the Others will always be a danger, and the next time they arrive there will be just as many people fighting to be sitting at the top of the pile even as there are people trying to stop them.
As far as who is safest, I'd say Bran, Cersei (at least for the next book) and Arriane. If only because they provide POV's for what will be the major parts for the next book. Daenerys is pretty iffy IMO, just because she's just as likely to be shanked by a Westrosi for being a foreigner bring her foreign armies as she is to be welcomed. And there is already someone who's ready to cash in on any lingering Targarian sympathies in Westros already, so yeah, I'd say Dany isn't nearly as secure a character as she was for the first 2/3rds of the series.

 

[pidl]

She's still not in Westeros? Talk about stretching things out.

 

[shiki]

I hate almost all the POV characters equally except Ned. He was the only one that I liked and he died ages ago.

 

[bzzt3421]

Personally I think while George knows how to write, he forgets how to pace and plot. Red Wedding, great execution, horrible, horrible place to put it. Completely cut the leg out of the running plot elements that drove the story in the first part, without having established a strong foothold for the plot elements that were meant to drive the plot in the following part. Hence why it took nearly two whole books to just build a firm enough base for the next part flow smoothly. And even then, it feels like George is struggling to figure out what to do.

 

[zerohour]

Wasn't it originally supposed to be a trilogy? Now it's got five books, with at least two more, and I think there have been rumors that the final count will be nine novels.

Trilogy Creep to the extreme.

 

[Herdo]

Today I finally finished the three seasons of Game of Thrones. All in all: awesome series and I'll eagerly wait for season 4.

I'll also consider buying the books but that will have to wait until later this year.

Favorite characters: Tyrion, Arya, Varys, Hodor, Ygritte, Jamie & Brienne, Olenna Tyrell, the hound, Yoren, Stannis and his court. Ned was also cool but his stupidity killed him off too quickly.

Hated/disliked characters: Joffrey, Tywin, Cersei, All of the Greyjoy, Robb, Bran and Catelyn, Littlefinger, most over at Essos, all the whores and Renly.

While the series is very good, I am surprised by the stupidity of multiple characters, as they act in various dumb ways that end up with them either dead or the situation much worse that before.

Favorite parts: Battle of Blackwater and the reveal of why Jamie killed the mad king. And almost all of Tyrion's scenes.

Not sure what will happen next but I'll speculate a little:
Arya goes east to become an awesome assassin. The hound will escort her.
Stannis and his court will prepare for war against the White Walkers, ignoring the Iron Throne.
Joffrey, Littlefingers and Tywin continue to be cunts. Jamie and Cersei try to reconnect but are unable to due to the long separation and his character development. Cersei will become depressed and hopefully commit suicide.
Sansa and Tyrion try to make the best of their situation. Margaery keeps on with becoming the queen.
The Night Watch either crumble or reorganize due to the recent accidents and information. The Wildling army will continue march around north of the Wall.
Daenerys keeps pillaging Essos and "liberating" the people. I don't actually think she'll ever make it to Westeros.
Yara will become a nice character but fail to save her brother. The rest of the citizens of the Iron Islands will hopefully die a painful and humiliating death.
Podrick secretly gets a massive harem of hot women and slowly becomes one of the most important character in King's Landing.

 

[Tsuki_CB]

Wow....you are SO far off it's not even funny...

 

[Ordo]

Today I finally finished the three seasons of Game of Thrones. All in all: awesome series and I'll eagerly wait for season 4.

I'll also consider buying the books but that will have to wait until later this year.

Favorite characters: Tyrion, Arya, Varys, Hodor, Ygritte, Jamie & Brienne, Olenna Tyrell, the hound, Yoren, Stannis and his court. Ned was also cool but his stupidity killed him off too quickly.

Hated/disliked characters: Joffrey, Tywin, Cersei, All of the Greyjoy, Robb, Bran and Catelyn, Littlefinger, most over at Essos, all the whores and Renly.

While the series is very good, I am surprised by the stupidity of multiple characters, as they act in various dumb ways that end up with them either dead or the situation much worse that before.

Favorite parts: Battle of Blackwater and the reveal of why Jamie killed the mad king. And almost all of Tyrion's scenes.

Not sure what will happen next but I'll speculate a little:
Arya goes east to become an awesome assassin. The hound will escort her.
Stannis and his court will prepare for war against the White Walkers, ignoring the Iron Throne.
Joffrey, Littlefingers and Tywin continue to be cunts. Jamie and Cersei try to reconnect but are unable to due to the long separation and his character development. Cersei will become depressed and hopefully commit suicide.
Sansa and Tyrion try to make the best of their situation. Margaery keeps on with becoming the queen.
The Night Watch either crumble or reorganize due to the recent accidents and information. The Wildling army will continue march around north of the Wall.
Daenerys keeps pillaging Essos and "liberating" the people. I don't actually think she'll ever make it to Westeros.
Yara will become a nice character but fail to save her brother. The rest of the citizens of the Iron Islands will hopefully die a painful and humiliating death.
Podrick secretly gets a massive harem of hot women and slowly becomes one of the most important character in King's Landing.

and just for fun.

 

[Eliar1]

Like Zerohour said it was supposed to be a trilogy and then.... well the the resurection crap came and fucked everything over.

 

[shout27]

couldn't find a better thread for this question sorry.
I just want to know if anyone can tell me the name of a fanficton.net story i read where Jon Snow effectively got "The Gamer" ability to treat his life like a video game. I remember reading it once and now I can't find the thing...

 

[burnerx7]

So I've trying to match, Essos culture and people with real world equivalents (At this point, a book about a traveler and mercant protagonist encountering all cultures beyond Westeros would be much more interesting to me that the tragedies of westeros)

So, please correct me if wrong.

The Free Cities.

For the whole point of trading cities, their strategic location and general architecture, they remind me of Mediterranean cities, well most of them not all. For example. Pentos almost made me remembre Siracuse by it's fantastic architecture and sea faring culture, plus the whole slave trading, also maybe it should be Chartage.

Braavos almost sound as Greeks kingdoms... with Sweden combined, I suppose Rome or Venice would be actual points of comparation, their fleet are legendary after all. Now the faceles men, remind me of the Hasshashins, thoughts?

Lys, sounds like two or three cities were pirates would be welcomed whit all their gold, I suppose if you squint you can see Lesbos isle in there, Qohor, Norvos and Myr plus the others, sound as some combination between arabic cities and cultures with some north african and fenician characteristics. The whole lot benefits from slavery, trade of exotic foods and things. The Westerosi almost look at them with caution and some fear. So it kinds of add up of how Christians kindoms looked at muslim cultures in the crusades whitout all the war baggage.

The Knigdom of Sarnor, sound as remanents of the Persian empire, except we don't know anything about them, the Dothraki, sound as a combination of Scythian and Hun culture. The Ombers, sound as "earth people" they were basically the farmers of the Scythian, they were rich farmer who payed the scythians so they left them alone.

No idea about the Kingdom of the Ifequevron, maybe celtic? they live in woods and nobody know anything about them except some mentions of carved threes and the Dothraki fear them, so yea.

The Ghiscari, sound as arabic, maybe babilonic people, Lhazar sound as the cultures of nomades in the desert who were shepards were the common denominator, almost sound as jews and other people of that kind of culture Qarth, at least to me sound as the Sirian empire, or Iraq pre-muslim culture. And I don't have idea of the rest, the Yi-ti are bright eyed, whatever the hell that means. The Leng are fucking tall with golden eye (At first I though they were going to be asiatic)

So any help in defining real live closeness or just a few examples would be great, Martin is going to die whitout exploring that rich world if it continues like this, a sad thing really, the world has tons of things that should be explored.