Girl Genius Discussion page

[Prince Charon]

Klaus may not be an actual villain, but he has apparently been lobotomising sparks in order to figure out how their gift works. That's pretty morally unsound.

That said, he's created a peace, and even better, he's raised a son who'll be able to maintain said peace, being not only a very strong spark that's almost completely in control of his gift, but also a nice guy who's capable of kicking ass on a massive scale when sufficiently aggravated.

The people fear Klaus. They could love Gil.

Klaus is a leader of nation. That for the most part requires leaders to order things that are not morally sound. Also, the lobotomising of Sparks IIRC was to find out how to control the Spark which is a good thing. Frankly, there are Sparks who have probably done a lot worse then what the Baron is doing

Yes, but most leaders don't enjoy doing morally unsound things. The Baron does, very much (and note, he isn't even Sparking at that point). It's the only pleasure he gets, anymore - well, until he got to Mechanicsburg, and saw his son being badass. That made him very happy, indeed. Still, that doesn't erase the fact that he deeply enjoys studying the Spark by drilling holes in peoples' heads until they stop being Sparks!

 

[Darth nylon545]

Klaus may not be an actual villain, but he has apparently been lobotomising sparks in order to figure out how their gift works. That's pretty morally unsound.

That said, he's created a peace, and even better, he's raised a son who'll be able to maintain said peace, being not only a very strong spark that's almost completely in control of his gift, but also a nice guy who's capable of kicking ass on a massive scale when sufficiently aggravated.

The people fear Klaus. They could love Gil.

Klaus is a leader of nation. That for the most part requires leaders to order things that are not morally sound. Also, the lobotomising of Sparks IIRC was to find out how to control the Spark which is a good thing. Frankly, there are Sparks who have probably done a lot worse then what the Baron is doing

Yes, but most leaders don't enjoy doing <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040107' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>morally unsound things</a>. The Baron does, <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040114' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>very much</a> (and note, he isn't even <a href='http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/The_madness_place' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Sparking</a> at that point). It's the only pleasure he gets, anymore - well, until he got to Mechanicsburg, <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071126' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>and</a> <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071128' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>saw</a> his <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071130' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>son</a> being badass. That made him <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071203' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>very happy, indeed</a>. Still, that doesn't erase the fact that he deeply enjoys studying the Spark by drilling holes in peoples' heads until they stop being Sparks!

He's a mad scientist, what did you expect? Whose to say that being a Spark has not affected one's personality when not sparking over time? And he is working on trying to fix the problems with the process. And for being proud of his son? He's proud that his son will be a strong rule, and not a failure.

 

[bzzt3421]

Yeah, but the key point in the whole drilling into people's heads. Is the fact that their Spark heads. You know the crazy psychotic bastards who have a tendancy to kill themselves and everyone else within a five mile radius.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Which is the only reason I wrote morally unsound instead of flat-out evil.

 

[grant]

And based on what we've seen he didn't even do it that often.

The only reason I have to support Agatha at all is that he's under the control of the Other. If not for that then my support would be entirely behind Wulfenbach.

That and I find Agatha too close to a Sue.

 

[Prince Charon]

And based on what we've seen he didn't even do it that often.

The only reason I have to support Agatha at all is that he's under the control of the Other. If not for that then my support would be entirely behind Wulfenbach.

That and I find Agatha too close to a Sue.

IIRC, Kaja Foglio is the physical model for Agatha.

 

[zeebee1]

I don't see the resemblance.

 

[Emerald Oracle]

and with the newest chapter Gil's back. He's one of my favorite characters so it's good to see him. Also, I have noticed that both he and Zeetha have rather pointed canine teeth. Coincidence? or Skifandrian bio-SCIENCE! ?

 

[grant]

and with the newest chapter Gil's back. He's one of my favorite characters so it's good to see him. Also, I have noticed that both he and Zeetha have rather pointed canine teeth. Coincidence? or Skifandrian bio-SCIENCE! ?

There's been speculation that he (at least) is a Jagermonster. Alternatively an experiment. He's definitely not natural, that much has been extensively shown several times over the course of the series. Zeetha tends to the 'improbable but theoretically possible for a human' side of abilities. Maybe she never received whatever experiments Gil might have.


Personally I think he's still a bit dumb to believe his father's story but that's another matter and I'm still hoping that Gil's smarter than the story suggests he is and is just playing along.
However there is one important question. Where's BANG! I absolutely refuse to believe she's dead. She's my favorite crack pairing for Gil. Oh yeah, and will Othar ever update his Twitter.

 

[zerohour]

Yes, but most leaders don't enjoy doing <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040107' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>morally unsound things</a>.

Keep in mind that the subject in that case is (at the time,) probably the biggest threat to the peace he's forged. Othar has been working to destroy the Baron and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take at least a little pleasure from ending said threat.


Do you think we'll ever see the Baron's wife? I completely forgot about that little tidbit. Could support the idea that Gil and Zeetha are brother and sister...

 

[Emerald Oracle]

Do you think we'll ever see the Baron's wife?? I completely forgot about that little tidbit.? Could support the idea that Gil and Zeetha are brother and sister...

Well, considering that he told Othar he hasn't seen her in YEARS it's likely she isn't anywhere within the confines of Wulfenbach's Empire. I think her being the queen of Skifander is pretty likely. Also, Though we know Gil is somewhat Construct-like (he has the stitches and so forth) we don't know how much, I mean the Baron is explicitly stated to have experimented on him to make him stronger, i.e. poisons and illnesses and stuff. Plus, I think the Skifandrians objected to Klaus saving Gil's life for one of two reasons, either A) they are a strictly matriarchal society and so males born to the royal line are no-no's and Klaus saving Gil makes Gil an abomination or something, or B) they have something like the 50 Families do and don't like resurrections for similar reasons and want Gil dead cause his continued life is obfuscating the line of inheritance. Anyone have other thoughts?

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Dammit, I can't resist.

One does not simply walk into Mechanicsburg.

 

[grant]

From Klaus' statement about why Zeetha might be there to kill Gil (which might actually be correct or might not) he certainly thought that he had to get Gil away from the place. Either Gil was supposed to die for some ritual or there was something about him that meant that they needed him to die.

And by the way Nix, I've been meaning to ask. Where exactly does your Naruto sig come from?

 

[Prince Charon]

Yes, but most leaders don't enjoy doing <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040107' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>morally unsound things</a>.

Keep in mind that the subject in that case is (at the time,) probably the biggest threat to the peace he's forged. Othar has been working to destroy the Baron and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take at least a little pleasure from ending said threat.

Not really the point, given that he does this to other people, and enjoys it ('My pleasure is in these rare moments of research').

 

[nixofcyzerra]

From Klaus' statement about why Zeetha might be there to kill Gil (which might actually be correct or might not) he certainly thought that he had to get Gil away from the place. Either Gil was supposed to die for some ritual or there was something about him that meant that they needed him to die.

And by the way Nix, I've been meaning to ask. Where exactly does your Naruto sig come from?

"No Reading," by Meinos Kaen.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Yes, but most leaders don't enjoy doing <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040107' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>morally unsound things</a>.

Keep in mind that the subject in that case is (at the time,) probably the biggest threat to the peace he's forged. Othar has been working to destroy the Baron and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take at least a little pleasure from ending said threat.

Not really the point, given that he does this to other people, and enjoys it ('My pleasure is in these rare moments of research').

Put yourself in Klaus's shoes. He has what is arguably the most stressful and disaster-prone job in the entire world, AND he doesn't even like it, AND he's a Spark himself.

Quite frankly, I view his drilling holes in Sparks' heads as 1) doing humanity at large a service since most Sparks tend to kill themselves and everything within miles around on a whim, and 2) blowing off as much stress and steam as possible so that he doesn't go psychonuts and dump the 'benevolence' part in 'benevolent tyrant', becoming something like Nero and just blowing everything up.

Klaus does need the stress relief, and his dismantling the source of his stress, even if it's living beings, is somewhat understandable. He's tired of all the shit Sparks cause. Othar in primis, as Othar doesn't give half a lice's shit about what happens to innocent bystanders when he's trying to kill Sparks.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Do you think the authors are going to have Agatha ending up with both Gil and Tarvek?

 

[Emerald Oracle]

I think the author's are enjoying messing with the audience's expectations. Gil was pretty clearly the original frontrunner, but every time it seems like he's going to be the upfront winner they do something to put Tarvek back into contention. Now personally as far as characters go I like Gil more than Tarvek, as Tarvek seems a power-hungry weasel at heart to me whereas Gil mainly just wants to survive, do what's necessary, and do SCIENCE as far as I can tell. Doesn't mean that the constant jockeying isn't making for an entertaining story though.

 

[bissek]

Yes, but most leaders don't enjoy doing <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040107' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>morally unsound things</a>.

Keep in mind that the subject in that case is (at the time,) probably the biggest threat to the peace he's forged. Othar has been working to destroy the Baron and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take at least a little pleasure from ending said threat.

Not really the point, given that he does this to other people, and enjoys it ('My pleasure is in these rare moments of research').

Put yourself in Klaus's shoes. He has what is arguably the most stressful and disaster-prone job in the entire world, AND he doesn't even like it, AND he's a Spark himself.

Quite frankly, I view his drilling holes in Sparks' heads as 1) doing humanity at large a service since most Sparks tend to kill themselves and everything within miles around on a whim, and 2) blowing off as much stress and steam as possible so that he doesn't go psychonuts and dump the 'benevolence' part in 'benevolent tyrant', becoming something like Nero and just blowing everything up.

Klaus does need the stress relief, and his dismantling the source of his stress, even if it's living beings, is somewhat understandable. He's tired of all the shit Sparks cause. Othar in primis, as Othar doesn't give half a lice's shit about what happens to innocent bystanders when he's trying to kill Sparks.

Actually, Klaus was content to let Othar go around killing Sparks so long as he killed the ones that he didn't need to keep around. The novels suggest that he had been subtly directing Othar towards dangerous Sparks who technically hadn't broken the Baron's Piece and so couldn't touch himself until Othar started killing Sparks under Klaus' employ.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Yes, but most leaders don't enjoy doing <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040107' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>morally unsound things</a>.

Keep in mind that the subject in that case is (at the time,) probably the biggest threat to the peace he's forged. Othar has been working to destroy the Baron and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take at least a little pleasure from ending said threat.

Not really the point, given that he does this to other people, and enjoys it ('My pleasure is in these rare moments of research').

Put yourself in Klaus's shoes. He has what is arguably the most stressful and disaster-prone job in the entire world, AND he doesn't even like it, AND he's a Spark himself.

Quite frankly, I view his drilling holes in Sparks' heads as 1) doing humanity at large a service since most Sparks tend to kill themselves and everything within miles around on a whim, and 2) blowing off as much stress and steam as possible so that he doesn't go psychonuts and dump the 'benevolence' part in 'benevolent tyrant', becoming something like Nero and just blowing everything up.

Klaus does need the stress relief, and his dismantling the source of his stress, even if it's living beings, is somewhat understandable. He's tired of all the shit Sparks cause. Othar in primis, as Othar doesn't give half a lice's shit about what happens to innocent bystanders when he's trying to kill Sparks.

Actually, Klaus was content to let Othar go around killing Sparks so long as he killed the ones that he didn't need to keep around. The novels suggest that he had been subtly directing Othar towards dangerous Sparks who technically hadn't broken the Baron's Piece and so couldn't touch himself until Othar started killing Sparks under Klaus' employ.

That's actually a pretty smart way to use Othar. But if memory serves, the Baron cracked down not when Othar started killing Sparks under the Baron's employment, but when he started to just plain not care how much collateral damage he caused. Othar himself more or less stated he used to be mindful of unrelated deaths - once. Nowadays, not so much. Killing Sparks has become his priority, keeping innocents safe isn't required anymore.

Which is a large part of why everyone hates his guts. He's a maniac even by Spark standards.

 

[Emerald Oracle]

I really need to read the books too don't I if I want a full picture... And of COURSE Othar is even more crazy, he thinks he's the local equivalent of a pulp hero! As in he's a protagonist of a story, and even if that's TRUE, which in this case it isn't as he's a supporting character at best, that doesn't exactly speak well of his mental stability, even for a spark! Then again I can't remember that ever being explicitly stated so I may be over inferring from extant examples of Othar's craziness.

 

[grant]

I really need to read the books too don't I if I want a full picture... And of COURSE Othar is even more crazy, he thinks he's the local equivalent of a pulp hero! As in he's a protagonist of a story, and even if that's TRUE, which in this case it isn't as he's a supporting character at best, that doesn't exactly speak well of his mental stability, even for a spark! Then again I can't remember that ever being explicitly stated so I may be over inferring from extant examples of Othar's craziness.

Othar is the Victorian hero terrorist. Were this set in real life he'd be bombing the offices of corrupt industrialists and judges in Central Europe and Russia.

 

[Emerald Oracle]

Ok so going back over the most recent page, as today/friday's isn't up yet, I realized something. Klaus is worried about BEING FAIR, and he makes this statement after coming off the edge of a spark fugue. Something is clearly up with his control or not control by that special wasp. He may be operating under orders rather than being directly controlled/manipulated.

 

[nick012000]

Yes, but most leaders don't enjoy doing <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040107' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>morally unsound things</a>.

Keep in mind that the subject in that case is (at the time,) probably the biggest threat to the peace he's forged. Othar has been working to destroy the Baron and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take at least a little pleasure from ending said threat.

Not really the point, given that he does this to other people, and enjoys it ('My pleasure is in these rare moments of research').

Put yourself in Klaus's shoes. He has what is arguably the most stressful and disaster-prone job in the entire world, AND he doesn't even like it, AND he's a Spark himself.

Quite frankly, I view his drilling holes in Sparks' heads as 1) doing humanity at large a service since most Sparks tend to kill themselves and everything within miles around on a whim, and 2) blowing off as much stress and steam as possible so that he doesn't go psychonuts and dump the 'benevolence' part in 'benevolent tyrant', becoming something like Nero and just blowing everything up.

Klaus does need the stress relief, and his dismantling the source of his stress, even if it's living beings, is somewhat understandable. He's tired of all the shit Sparks cause. Othar in primis, as Othar doesn't give half a lice's shit about what happens to innocent bystanders when he's trying to kill Sparks.

Actually, Klaus was content to let Othar go around killing Sparks so long as he killed the ones that he didn't need to keep around. The novels suggest that he had been subtly directing Othar towards dangerous Sparks who technically hadn't broken the Baron's Piece and so couldn't touch himself until Othar started killing Sparks under Klaus' employ.

That's actually a pretty smart way to use Othar. But if memory serves, the Baron cracked down not when Othar started killing Sparks under the Baron's employment, but when he started to just plain not care how much collateral damage he caused. Othar himself more or less stated he used to be mindful of unrelated deaths - once. Nowadays, not so much. Killing Sparks has become his priority, keeping innocents safe isn't required anymore.

Which is a large part of why everyone hates his guts. He's a maniac even by Spark standards.

I'll point out that if you read Othar's Twitter account, he sent his mind time-travelling back from a future where Sparks literally destroyed Europa in a nuclear war, and killed everyone within it. That he doesn't care as much about civilian casualties anymore makes sense; as far as he's concerned, if he doesn't act, they're all going to die anyway.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Yes, but most leaders don't enjoy doing <a href='http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040107' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>morally unsound things</a>.

Keep in mind that the subject in that case is (at the time,) probably the biggest threat to the peace he's forged. Othar has been working to destroy the Baron and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't take at least a little pleasure from ending said threat.

Not really the point, given that he does this to other people, and enjoys it ('My pleasure is in these rare moments of research').

Put yourself in Klaus's shoes. He has what is arguably the most stressful and disaster-prone job in the entire world, AND he doesn't even like it, AND he's a Spark himself.

Quite frankly, I view his drilling holes in Sparks' heads as 1) doing humanity at large a service since most Sparks tend to kill themselves and everything within miles around on a whim, and 2) blowing off as much stress and steam as possible so that he doesn't go psychonuts and dump the 'benevolence' part in 'benevolent tyrant', becoming something like Nero and just blowing everything up.

Klaus does need the stress relief, and his dismantling the source of his stress, even if it's living beings, is somewhat understandable. He's tired of all the shit Sparks cause. Othar in primis, as Othar doesn't give half a lice's shit about what happens to innocent bystanders when he's trying to kill Sparks.

Actually, Klaus was content to let Othar go around killing Sparks so long as he killed the ones that he didn't need to keep around. The novels suggest that he had been subtly directing Othar towards dangerous Sparks who technically hadn't broken the Baron's Piece and so couldn't touch himself until Othar started killing Sparks under Klaus' employ.

That's actually a pretty smart way to use Othar. But if memory serves, the Baron cracked down not when Othar started killing Sparks under the Baron's employment, but when he started to just plain not care how much collateral damage he caused. Othar himself more or less stated he used to be mindful of unrelated deaths - once. Nowadays, not so much. Killing Sparks has become his priority, keeping innocents safe isn't required anymore.

Which is a large part of why everyone hates his guts. He's a maniac even by Spark standards.

I'll point out that if you read Othar's Twitter account, he sent his mind time-travelling back from a future where Sparks literally destroyed Europa in a nuclear war, and killed everyone within it. That he doesn't care as much about civilian casualties anymore makes sense; as far as he's concerned, if he doesn't act, they're all going to die anyway.

Point taken. But the problem is that he doesn't even TRY to talk about it. At the very least Agatha, Gil and probably Klaus would actually have taken his warning seriously if he'd warned them about it since they all are fully aware of what Sparks are capable of, and time-travel isn't all that impossible if a Spark is determined enough. But instead he chose the hard line from the get-go, and that pretty much alienated what chances he had of being taken seriously by the people who COULD make a difference.

In fact, for all we know, Othar's actions may be what sparked said nuclear war. He sure as hell isn't making Sparks less prone to go to war, in fact he's making them MORE paranoid and trigger happy.