Naruto Hokage Kakashi

Knyght

The Collector
#1
Excuse me while I complain about Kakashi becoming Hokage...



I'm sure I've shared my opinion here and there a couple of times but re-reading the battle with Kaguya and some discussions about Kakashi after the war has rekindled my dislike for the idea.

First of all, Obito states that Kakashi would become the Sixth Hokage as if it was a definite fact. If Tsunade had died then it would have made sense because someone would need to become Hokage after the war and Kakashi is the only logical choice left. There were even some close calls such as when she ran out of chakra fighting Madara or had exhausted herself healing the other Kages while leaving her wound unattended. It would have been a very fitting death for the manga's best medic.

Problem is the Fifth Hokage isn't dead.

Even her age isn't a major obstacle because we've seen other Kages at least as old she is such as the Third Hokage, Third Tsuchikage and First Mizukage. However she would have an excuse for her biological age being a factor because Creation Rebirth shortens her natural lifespan, something which she used quite recklessly in the war. Even if Tsunade had survived the war, she could have been too worn down to stay in office - perhaps even dying in the next few years - which would have been a well explained reason for her to pass on the torch. Kakashi's eventual promotion could even have been pre-planned like if Tsunade had taken him aside before the war and said that even if she survived, she was planning to step down because her body wouldn't be able to handle it anymore.

However, Tsunade is still alive and kicking more than a decade later. There's not the slightest hint that she's physically impaired by her age, and has even gone out of her way to look even younger than before (which I assume is purely vanity now that she's gotten even older) and better looking than her fellow Kages. So even though it should look like her Creation Rebirth had an impact, what we see implies otherwise.

Not that Kakashi was much better off as he admitted that his Sharingan had lost most of its eyesight by the final stages of the war, so he was always going to be handicapped himself in the end.

And wouldn't it be better to keep their current Hokage in charge to guide the village after such a major upheaval in the world order? Jiraiya once advised Tsunade not to go to Ame because changing leaders so soon would lead to instability; it hasn't been so long since that time that the idea wouldn't still apply. Tsunade was also the Hokage that directly fought and bled alongside the other Kages during the war, even saving their lives when they were defeated, which is an experience that Kakashi wouldn't have with them.

Kishimoto tries to help justify his decision by using the Sage of Six Paths to big up Kakashi but, having looked back at the battle with Kaguya, it sounds really forced. Hagoromo never witnessed the fight himself so his statements fall flat regardless.

He certainly didn't do any leading as it was practically everyone else who took charge, came up with plans to deal with Kaguya and did the heavy lifting while he sat back and watched. The one thing he did try to do - sacrifice himself to protect Naruto - was handled by Obito anyway. Even "being Obito's friend" was something Naruto displayed more of, even if I dislike it. Kakashi honestly couldn't do anything until Obito gave him the Sharingan again.

This is the time when Kakashi's leadership skills and intelligence were all he had to offer and were what he needed to display more than ever to prove his worth for the future. But he didn't.

But, of course, the real kicker is that Kakashi doesn't have his Sharingan anymore.

Some excuse it by saying that we don't know how Kakashi might have developed after the war. But, honestly, I think it would need to be a really drastic change for Kakashi to become equal to how strong he was during the war.

The Sharingan has been a critical part of Kakashi's fighting style for the vast majority of his career and he's had it for more than half of his life. The loss of the Sharingan means he can't see chakra, copy jutsu, cast visual genjutsu, track movement and predict movement. I don't believe that "no Sharingan = no Raikiri" like some but I do think that he can't draw out its full power anymore, as he cannot charge at his target at full speed without being dangerously open to counterattack.

The novels even made a poor attempt to compensate for this with Kakashi inventing a purple lightning jutsu to make up for not being able to use the Raikiri. Which is no different from learning any lightning jutsu and doesn't solve the root problem that he "can't" use his signature jutsu anymore.

Most importantly, he can no longer use Kamui. In my opinion, that space-time ninjutsu is essentially what put Kakashi on an even playing field with other kage-level shinobi in the first place instead of someone who could just put up a good fight. The sole benefit of losing his Sharingan was that he won't use up his chakra as fast which is a poor consolation prize. Honestly, it's a lot like when Sasori was resurrected without any of his puppets or his puppet body which made him seem pitiful in comparison to what we know he could do.

In short, I don't believe that Kakashi after the war is good enough to honestly be considered kage-level in fighting ability. He's just fortunate that the conclusion of the Fourth Great Shinobi War was the beginning of a new era for the shinobi world where, ideally, Kages wouldn't need to be as powerful as they used to be.

It all seemed worse when I realised that there was another, far more ideal position for him: Jounin Commander of Konoha. Unlike Tsunade, Shikaku had died which opened a job vacancy that needed filling. Instead of being a Hokage that doesn't match up to his predecessors or colleagues, Kakashi could have been the perfect Jounin Commander. And I know I would prefer an epilogue with a young adult Naruto being appointed as the Sixth Hokage by Tsunade.


Welp, I'm glad to get that off my chest. Agree? Disagree? Don't care either way?
 

douter

Well-Known Member
#2
Kakashi, seems he would fit more into the Jounin Commander of Konoha - his how many years in ANBU must be useful there.

I also would have liked seeing naruto struggle with the power and responsibility of being Hokage - and maybe realize that the reality was very different to his dream.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#3
The worst part about Kakashi being Hokage was that during the one crisis the village faced during his rule, Kakashi was totally helpless to protect it. When that meteor was falling towards Konoha in The Last movie, Kakashi just stood there useless until Sasuke showed up to save his village for him. Even freaking Lee was more helpful, he cut that son of a bitch meteor in half with pure taijutsu!

I'm willing to cut Tsunade some slack for retiring early though. She deserved it after all the shit she dealt with as Hokage, just as much as Hiruzen did when he passed the hat down to Minato. It kind of is bullshit that she's still alive in the epilogue though, after overusing Creation Rebirth so much with all the warning talk about the technique shortening her lifespan.

I like to imagine that Kakashi has improved a great deal since the war, even if he's not reached the same level he had with the Mangekyou Sharingan again. Tsunade could have trained him up to take her place and Gai may have helped him improve his physical conditioning and maybe even taught him how to open a few of the gates. If nothing else, he better have at least completed that lightning release: rasengan he mentioned to Naruto during the Rasenshuriken training.
 
#4
I'm guessing Tsunade can't really fight anymore in the epilogue. And she didn't really wanted the position in first place... she basically took it to keep the hat warm for Naruto and away from Danzo.
And by now she probably FEELS old.


Basically, I'm guessing Tsunade is going to take the blame for every failing and death, as, after all, everything happened under her rule.
A political "fresh start", which also assure the real Hero of the Fourth War, Naruto, WILL become the next Hokage, and has not been named only because he REALLY needs time to cover his glaring holes in his education.
Again, politics.
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
#5
knight504 said:
Excuse me while I complain about Kakashi becoming Hokage...



I'm sure I've shared my opinion here and there a couple of times but re-reading the battle with Kaguya and some discussions about Kakashi after the war has rekindled my dislike for the idea.

First of all, Obito states that Kakashi would become the Sixth Hokage as if it was a definite fact.
Didn't the Fire Lord almost select Kakashi to replace Tsunade before Danzo interrupted matters? Chances are, the choice wouldn't have changed at all, and Obito was just stating that fact.

As for other things, Kakashi may not be the most powerful of ninja in Konoha, but in his case, he doesn't necessarily have to be -- he has Naruto AND Sasuke to handle things when shit gets too real. And Kakashi was still considered a genius long before he got the Sharingan -- which, as pointed out, wouldn't have been worth a hill of beans after the war, anyway, so that's essentially a moot point. So, theoretically, power isn't much an issue to bring up for Kakashi post-War.

However, the thing he does have in force (at last check, anyway) is his persuasive skills, something that would be in high demand in dealing with the tragedies and alterations of hidden village policies. It's never been brought up AFAIK whether or not ninja can marry ninja from other villages, and given the ending, I'm going to say, it probably wasn't sanctioned. Yet, in the epilogue, Temari married Shikamaru, and Karui married Choji, so you know you have got to be a smooth orator to get such changes passed, let alone implemented.
 

da_fox2279

California Crackpot
#6
goldenarms said:
knight504 said:
Excuse me while I complain about Kakashi becoming Hokage...



I'm sure I've shared my opinion here and there a couple of times but re-reading the battle with Kaguya and some discussions about Kakashi after the war has rekindled my dislike for the idea.

First of all, Obito states that Kakashi would become the Sixth Hokage as if it was a definite fact.
Didn't the Fire Lord almost select Kakashi to replace Tsunade before Danzo interrupted matters? Chances are, the choice wouldn't have changed at all, and Obito was just stating that fact.

As for other things, Kakashi may not be the most powerful of ninja in Konoha, but in his case, he doesn't necessarily have to be -- he has Naruto AND Sasuke to handle things when shit gets too real. And Kakashi was still considered a genius long before he got the Sharingan -- which, as pointed out, wouldn't have been worth a hill of beans after the war, anyway, so that's essentially a moot point. So, theoretically, power isn't much an issue to bring up for Kakashi post-War.

However, the thing he does have in force (at last check, anyway) is his persuasive skills, something that would be in high demand in dealing with the tragedies and alterations of hidden village policies. It's never been brought up AFAIK whether or not ninja can marry ninja from other villages, and given the ending, I'm going to say, it probably wasn't sanctioned. Yet, in the epilogue, Temari married Shikamaru, and Karui married Choji, so you know you have got to be a smooth orator to get such changes passed, let alone implemented.
In the case of Temari and Shikamaru, I suspect Gaara was more than a little influenced by Naruto: "Ah, c'mon Gaara, let them get married! It's such a great thing, and it'd really make me happy..."

"... Fine, if it'll shut you up..."

Chouji/Karui? No clue. That one came right out of nowhere. Did they even have any interaction prior to the epilogue?
 

Knyght

The Collector
#7
No, they didn't. Wouldn't have been hard either since you could have, for instance, have shown them in the same war divsion with Chouji impressing her when he finally manned the fuck up or something.

...Anyway, in a question only vaguely related to my original rant, how do you suppose Kakashi would have developed if he had never had the Sharingan? Say that he never lost his eye so it wasn't in need of replacing, ignoring how other related events would have turned out. Without it, would he have never matched up to his canon or become a legend like his father?

Would he have been the same kind of elite all-rounder just without the Sharingan's abilities to rely on? Someone more specialized who builds upon his Raikiri with other innovative lightning jutsu that he only touched upon his canon? Or even another kind of Copy Ninja who follows his teacher's footsteps to learn the Flying Thunder God Jutsu himself? Unless he goes a completely different way.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#8
Looking at all of Kakashi's other abilities, most of it doesn't really stand out or isn't something I could base an entire fighting style around. He can open the first of the eight gates, he knows a few genjutsu, he knows some sealing jutsu, he can summon dogs, he can uses clones and the rasengan, he has a great sense of smell... but he never really expands on any of that. He's learned tons of stuff, but none of it's really reliable - the only jutsu he consistently uses in battle are the occasional clone and his elemental jutsu. And of his elemental jutsu, all his water and earth release jutsu are basic stuff, common jutsu used by many different characters. But his lightning jutsu, those have potential. Lightning cutter, lightning beast tracking fang, lightning release shadow clone, lightning transmission... those are all either unique to him and/or invented by him.

So if I were to write a post-sharingan Kakashi or never-had-sharingan Kakashi, that's the angle I'd take. Innovative lightning jutsu master Kakashi. I'd also have him eventually master that Lightning Release: Rasengan he gave up on in canon and settled for Raikiri instead. Without the sharingan Raikiri is significantly less useful so he'd have to keep trying for the lightning rasengan if he really wanted an ace killer jutsu.
 

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#9
I think the raikiri is still useful even without the sharingan. It's just that the sharingan eliminates the raikiri's weakness of giving the user tunnel vision due to how fast he should be moving when executing the raikiri. That can be eliminated by setting the enemy up in a binding jutsu strong enough to hold the enemy for a few seconds.
 
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