Infinity War spoiler discussion.
- Thread starter Contrabardus
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Now that the warning is covered, I thought it was great, even if it was exactly what I expected in pretty much every way.
There were some mild surprises, such as Tony, Peter, and Dr. Strange's trip into space, Loki getting killed in the opening in a rather heroic fashion, and Vision lasting as long as he did. Plus, no Hulk for the majority of the movie, and they stuck with it. I was kind of expecting him to Hulk out in the armor, and actually enjoyed what they did with that more. I also quite enjoyed seeing the legs show up on the Iron Spider costume. I love what they did with Peter Dinklage, was not expecting that.
Hoping Hawkeye and Ant-Man get more than a name drop in the sequel. Pretty sure they will, but it would have been nice to see them in a cameo at least.
I wasn't sure how they were going to do it exactly, but even the after credits scene was exactly what I expected. A teaser for Captain Marvel. Though, Nick Fury's last words were a nice touch easteregg for Samuel L. Jackson.
It would be funny if some characters are "resurrected" as different actors. Like maybe we get old white Nick Fury. I don't expect it, but it would be cute.
There have been rumblings of a possible multi-verse happening, possibly how they'll bring in the Fox properties. I do wonder if they might use that to resurrect some of these characters and just leave the original versions dead. I doubt that, and don't really expect that until after this phase is over.
Though, another possibility is that they aren't resurrected at all, and that the Skrulls are the next phase villains, taking over the lives of the fallen heroes. Though, again, I don't really see that for some of the characters they killed off. I'm pretty much expecting the Infinity Stones to be used to bring everyone Thanos killed in his purge back.
I totally called Tony being sad because Spider-Man died, but was not expecting how they did it.
I like Peter, but we've had six movies with him, and I was kind of hoping to see Miles in the next Spider-Man. It would be a ballsy move, but I doubt they'll do that for at least a few more movies.
In fact, that's my biggest issue with the ending. They overdid it with the deaths, killing characters you know are getting movies in the future. You know everyone who "vanished" is coming back.
Though, I do hope they leave those who died outside of that dead. Vision they could repair, but Loki, Hemidal, and Gamora should all stay dead. Hiddleston had a great run and I like how his arc concluded. They should let that stand.
They should have just had characters you aren't sure might return vanish in the ending. Bucky and Mantis were good choices, Pepper should have been shown turning to dust as well, T'chala, Star Lord, Drax, Groot, and Peter not so much. It would have raised the stakes more and left me questioning whether they would have been able to undo what happened.
I kind of got why they did it to Dr. Strange, but given his connection to the Mystic Arts, I could see them using that to bring him back.
I can also easily see Tony basically hanging up his armor and being done with being a super hero after Thanos is defeated, if he survives the next Avengers film. I kind of think he will and think Captain America might actually be the major death of that movie.
Like what they did with Red Skull. It was a nice nod, and I could see him returning as a future villain. Thanos taking the Soul Stone could free him somehow. He'd make a good villain for a Captain America movie where Bucky takes on the mantle.
I'd also like to see one more Iron Man movie. This time with a proper Mandarin that forces him back into action one last time. Have him pulling the strings from the shadows in the previous Iron Man films, particularly Iron Man 3, and coming after Tony and forcing him to face a mystic enemy now that Dr. Strange has established that sort of thing in the MCU.
This was the Empire Strike's Back of the franchise, which is exactly what I expected it to be, though I wasn't expecting them to pull it off as well as they did. I didn't think it would be bad, but I was impressed with how well it all came together. Too soon to call where this ranks in the grand scheme of things, I need to see it at least one more time, but I am confident it will be ranked as one of the better Marvel movies up to this point.
The worst part about this movie is the fact that you'll have to wait until the next Avengers movie to get a proper ending.
I also wonder if the ending scene with Thanos is actually the aftermath of this movie, or the aftermath of the next one? Comic fans should know what I'm talking about. It could be a very sly scene that isn't what or when it seems to be.
There were some mild surprises, such as Tony, Peter, and Dr. Strange's trip into space, Loki getting killed in the opening in a rather heroic fashion, and Vision lasting as long as he did. Plus, no Hulk for the majority of the movie, and they stuck with it. I was kind of expecting him to Hulk out in the armor, and actually enjoyed what they did with that more. I also quite enjoyed seeing the legs show up on the Iron Spider costume. I love what they did with Peter Dinklage, was not expecting that.
Hoping Hawkeye and Ant-Man get more than a name drop in the sequel. Pretty sure they will, but it would have been nice to see them in a cameo at least.
I wasn't sure how they were going to do it exactly, but even the after credits scene was exactly what I expected. A teaser for Captain Marvel. Though, Nick Fury's last words were a nice touch easteregg for Samuel L. Jackson.
It would be funny if some characters are "resurrected" as different actors. Like maybe we get old white Nick Fury. I don't expect it, but it would be cute.
There have been rumblings of a possible multi-verse happening, possibly how they'll bring in the Fox properties. I do wonder if they might use that to resurrect some of these characters and just leave the original versions dead. I doubt that, and don't really expect that until after this phase is over.
Though, another possibility is that they aren't resurrected at all, and that the Skrulls are the next phase villains, taking over the lives of the fallen heroes. Though, again, I don't really see that for some of the characters they killed off. I'm pretty much expecting the Infinity Stones to be used to bring everyone Thanos killed in his purge back.
I totally called Tony being sad because Spider-Man died, but was not expecting how they did it.
I like Peter, but we've had six movies with him, and I was kind of hoping to see Miles in the next Spider-Man. It would be a ballsy move, but I doubt they'll do that for at least a few more movies.
In fact, that's my biggest issue with the ending. They overdid it with the deaths, killing characters you know are getting movies in the future. You know everyone who "vanished" is coming back.
Though, I do hope they leave those who died outside of that dead. Vision they could repair, but Loki, Hemidal, and Gamora should all stay dead. Hiddleston had a great run and I like how his arc concluded. They should let that stand.
They should have just had characters you aren't sure might return vanish in the ending. Bucky and Mantis were good choices, Pepper should have been shown turning to dust as well, T'chala, Star Lord, Drax, Groot, and Peter not so much. It would have raised the stakes more and left me questioning whether they would have been able to undo what happened.
I kind of got why they did it to Dr. Strange, but given his connection to the Mystic Arts, I could see them using that to bring him back.
I can also easily see Tony basically hanging up his armor and being done with being a super hero after Thanos is defeated, if he survives the next Avengers film. I kind of think he will and think Captain America might actually be the major death of that movie.
Like what they did with Red Skull. It was a nice nod, and I could see him returning as a future villain. Thanos taking the Soul Stone could free him somehow. He'd make a good villain for a Captain America movie where Bucky takes on the mantle.
I'd also like to see one more Iron Man movie. This time with a proper Mandarin that forces him back into action one last time. Have him pulling the strings from the shadows in the previous Iron Man films, particularly Iron Man 3, and coming after Tony and forcing him to face a mystic enemy now that Dr. Strange has established that sort of thing in the MCU.
This was the Empire Strike's Back of the franchise, which is exactly what I expected it to be, though I wasn't expecting them to pull it off as well as they did. I didn't think it would be bad, but I was impressed with how well it all came together. Too soon to call where this ranks in the grand scheme of things, I need to see it at least one more time, but I am confident it will be ranked as one of the better Marvel movies up to this point.
The worst part about this movie is the fact that you'll have to wait until the next Avengers movie to get a proper ending.
I also wonder if the ending scene with Thanos is actually the aftermath of this movie, or the aftermath of the next one? Comic fans should know what I'm talking about. It could be a very sly scene that isn't what or when it seems to be.
This is more likely, given the "Fatherhood" theme of the MCU overall, but I doubt it.
I expect Scott's daughter to vanish, but not Hope. I'm pretty sure it will be Hank that goes if this happens.
Rumor has it Janet may be in the movie as well, and I could see her disappearing at the end of the movie if they save her just before they get to have their happy ending. This will provide motivation for Scott and Hope to join up with the Avengers in the next movie.
If the rumors are true and this movie does involve time travel into the 90s with Scott, Hope, Pym, and Janet returning to the present day at the end, I'm calling that this is how the Skrulls make their way into the modern world to set up the Secret Invasion story rumored to be the next phase.
I'm also calling that the first thing out of Nick Fury's mouth when he reappears is "-cker". Bonus points if he comes back as an old white guy with white sideburns. Sam Jackson is probably at or near the end of his contract, and is probably getting expensive. Which is also why I'm not so sure Tony Stark will survive the next movie, that and the death flags he hoisted up the pole in Infinity War when talking to Pepper.
I'll be surprised if he gets to have a happy ending and retire from being a super hero.
Captain America is another probable death. Chris Evans has been saying for a while he wants to get out of acting and direct, and probably doesn't want to renew his contract.
I also think that perhaps not all the heroes that get "revived" really do come back to life, and are instead replaced by Skrulls.
This could also explain why the actor who played Quicksilver has a multi-picture deal.
I expect Scott's daughter to vanish, but not Hope. I'm pretty sure it will be Hank that goes if this happens.
Rumor has it Janet may be in the movie as well, and I could see her disappearing at the end of the movie if they save her just before they get to have their happy ending. This will provide motivation for Scott and Hope to join up with the Avengers in the next movie.
If the rumors are true and this movie does involve time travel into the 90s with Scott, Hope, Pym, and Janet returning to the present day at the end, I'm calling that this is how the Skrulls make their way into the modern world to set up the Secret Invasion story rumored to be the next phase.
I'm also calling that the first thing out of Nick Fury's mouth when he reappears is "-cker". Bonus points if he comes back as an old white guy with white sideburns. Sam Jackson is probably at or near the end of his contract, and is probably getting expensive. Which is also why I'm not so sure Tony Stark will survive the next movie, that and the death flags he hoisted up the pole in Infinity War when talking to Pepper.
I'll be surprised if he gets to have a happy ending and retire from being a super hero.
Captain America is another probable death. Chris Evans has been saying for a while he wants to get out of acting and direct, and probably doesn't want to renew his contract.
I also think that perhaps not all the heroes that get "revived" really do come back to life, and are instead replaced by Skrulls.
This could also explain why the actor who played Quicksilver has a multi-picture deal.
It starts before Infinity War and after Civil War. Though, that doesn't mean that's where it will end.
Especially if the rumors are true and it involves time travel. Something to do with the vehicles in the trailer all being older model cars.
I'm thinking they'll leave the present before Infinity War, and show up just in time to catch "the snap" at the end. Which will provide motivation for whoever is left to join in on that fight. Probably Scott and Hope.
I'm thinking Captain Marvel may actually have a cameo in the movie if this is true. Possibly as Pre-Captain Marvel Carol Danvers, since the time travel seems to be rumored to be at some point in the 80s.
Especially if the rumors are true and it involves time travel. Something to do with the vehicles in the trailer all being older model cars.
I'm thinking they'll leave the present before Infinity War, and show up just in time to catch "the snap" at the end. Which will provide motivation for whoever is left to join in on that fight. Probably Scott and Hope.
I'm thinking Captain Marvel may actually have a cameo in the movie if this is true. Possibly as Pre-Captain Marvel Carol Danvers, since the time travel seems to be rumored to be at some point in the 80s.
Steve didn't know beforehand did he? They found out at pretty much the same time I thought, unless I'm misremembering Civil War, but it's been a while since I've seen it.
Also, Steve didn't kill his parents, and Bucky was compromised by mind control, so there's some room for a bit of understanding there, even if he didn't agree with Cap's stance.
There's also the situation Steve walked in on, which matters. I doubt Rhodes would have been anywhere near as glad to see him if the world hadn't gone to shit right then. They needed the help, and Rhodes was smart enough to realize the level of shit they were neck deep in and that it wasn't the time for any political bullshit or personal grudges.
Hell, Tony got directly told this earlier in the film and was about to call in Steve himself before getting distracted by the Maw and whisked off into space.
I think it was less "Hey, how have you been buddy!?" and more "Holy shit, we can't handle this situation and can use every hand we can get, so I'm glad to see you!"
Also, Steve didn't kill his parents, and Bucky was compromised by mind control, so there's some room for a bit of understanding there, even if he didn't agree with Cap's stance.
There's also the situation Steve walked in on, which matters. I doubt Rhodes would have been anywhere near as glad to see him if the world hadn't gone to shit right then. They needed the help, and Rhodes was smart enough to realize the level of shit they were neck deep in and that it wasn't the time for any political bullshit or personal grudges.
Hell, Tony got directly told this earlier in the film and was about to call in Steve himself before getting distracted by the Maw and whisked off into space.
I think it was less "Hey, how have you been buddy!?" and more "Holy shit, we can't handle this situation and can use every hand we can get, so I'm glad to see you!"
Nah, Steve all but admitted that he'd known it was Bucky since the events of WS. The letter he sent at the end of Civil War had something about how he (Steve) had realised that he was really only sparing himself, which makes no sense if Steve had thought that Howard and Maria were killed by Random Hydra assassin No. 27.
I can see where you're coming from, but IIRC Rhodes gave Steve a big ol' bear hug. That's not something you give a guy when you know he screwed over your oldest friend.
I can see where you're coming from, but IIRC Rhodes gave Steve a big ol' bear hug. That's not something you give a guy when you know he screwed over your oldest friend.
I think Steve might have suspected, but didn't know until they saw the video. Which isn't the same thing as holding out. It confirmed his suspicions, but he didn't have any reason to bring it up prior to that, especially if his suspicion was wrong. Not that he would have anyway, but I don't think he really "knew" until that moment.
Hydra had other resources and he knew it, so even though he might have suspected. He also might have simply been in denial about it. That's not out of character given Steve and his relationship with Bucky.
If the world was ending and my team was getting our asses kicked, I'd probably hug Steve too if he had walked in at that moment. I see your point, but given the context I wouldn't say he forgave Steve so much as welcomed the help they desperately needed.
Had the situation been different, he might not have attacked Steve or tried to arrest him if he knew no one was aware they were meeting, but probably wouldn't have been so welcoming or friendly. I saw it as a case of seeing the need to shelve that due to the situation. Rhodes saw that right away and risked a court marshal because of it.
In the same situation without Thanos hanging over the world, he probably would have tried to arrest Steve. Well, assuming his armor was on hand. He's not dumb and probably would have known he'd have no shot at arresting him in his current state, but might have saw the need to make Steve force him to stop for the sake of his job and loyalty to Tony.
I think he realized Tony probably would have seen the situation the same way. Stark wouldn't have hugged Steve, but he probably would have put that shit aside for another day.
Hydra had other resources and he knew it, so even though he might have suspected. He also might have simply been in denial about it. That's not out of character given Steve and his relationship with Bucky.
If the world was ending and my team was getting our asses kicked, I'd probably hug Steve too if he had walked in at that moment. I see your point, but given the context I wouldn't say he forgave Steve so much as welcomed the help they desperately needed.
Had the situation been different, he might not have attacked Steve or tried to arrest him if he knew no one was aware they were meeting, but probably wouldn't have been so welcoming or friendly. I saw it as a case of seeing the need to shelve that due to the situation. Rhodes saw that right away and risked a court marshal because of it.
In the same situation without Thanos hanging over the world, he probably would have tried to arrest Steve. Well, assuming his armor was on hand. He's not dumb and probably would have known he'd have no shot at arresting him in his current state, but might have saw the need to make Steve force him to stop for the sake of his job and loyalty to Tony.
I think he realized Tony probably would have seen the situation the same way. Stark wouldn't have hugged Steve, but he probably would have put that shit aside for another day.
I've been contemplating this for a while now, I think the time stone was a trap. Beyond that not really sure. Perhaps...
To spring it I think is going to require a sacrifice, something Tony at this point is "signed up for", but at the end in a heart wrenching moment Captain America will take his place. Also, Pepper is pregnant and their son will be named Steve.
This would undo the "snap" and move (maybe just?) the time stone, (maybe more?) out of the gauntlet. (although it looked destroyed to me before he left earth, perhaps even permanently? That might have been the trap?)
To spring it I think is going to require a sacrifice, something Tony at this point is "signed up for", but at the end in a heart wrenching moment Captain America will take his place. Also, Pepper is pregnant and their son will be named Steve.
This would undo the "snap" and move (maybe just?) the time stone, (maybe more?) out of the gauntlet. (although it looked destroyed to me before he left earth, perhaps even permanently? That might have been the trap?)
There's no need for it to be a trap. It was just the best outcome Dr. Strange saw.
In fact, it doesn't make any narrative sense for it to be a trap, and it isn't supported by how Thanos uses the Time Stone later in the movie. It wouldn't have worked if it wasn't the real Time Stone. Thanos is also adept enough at using the magic in them that he likely would have noticed if something was off.
I don't see there being any trick involved there at all. It's a bit contrived to be honest, even for a comic book movie.
They built up that moment quite a bit with what Dr. Strange said prior to that scene. He gave it up because it was the only path to the winning outcome he saw.
Which is also why he didn't stop Starlord from preventing them from taking the gauntlet, and was strangely silent regarding what he did after it happened.
Remember, Thanos tanked the Hulk and was manhandling Thor without the gauntlet's power. The stones have a clear visual cue when they are active as the stones glow, there is no indication they provide any passive benefits, and when he was beating up the Hulk and toying with the Asguardians the stones were inert.
It's also made clear that he has to be making a fist or performing some form of gesture to use the stones. That's why they were holding his hand open when they managed to subdue him temporarily.
This is Thanos we're talking about here, even if he is a weaker MCU version. Dr. Strange was probably more aware of what they were facing even without the gauntlet than anyone else there.
Starlord probably saved everyone's life in the long run by preventing them from getting the gauntlet from Thanos. He might have had a tougher time, but probably still would have beaten them, and would have been a lot less likely to consider Dr. Strange's deal if they had taken it from him at any point.
Thanos had already won by that point and did't really need the Infinity Gauntlet to beat everyone there to death with his bare hands. Remember, he ripped the armor off of Iron Man's head with his bare hand at one point in the fight and was almost casual about it. Again, without the help of the Infinity Gauntlet.
They literally barely managed to scratch him, and again, -without the Infinity Gauntlet- he was not using it to protect himself. He did exactly once that I recall, and that was when Tony dropped a spaceship on him. He probably didn't even really need to do so and just did it to make getting it off of him easier.
Infinity Gauntlet or not, the heroes on Titan were not going to win that fight against Thanos. That's why Dr. Strange gave up the stone, because he was giving up the battle to win the war. That's why his last line was what it was.
In fact, it doesn't make any narrative sense for it to be a trap, and it isn't supported by how Thanos uses the Time Stone later in the movie. It wouldn't have worked if it wasn't the real Time Stone. Thanos is also adept enough at using the magic in them that he likely would have noticed if something was off.
I don't see there being any trick involved there at all. It's a bit contrived to be honest, even for a comic book movie.
They built up that moment quite a bit with what Dr. Strange said prior to that scene. He gave it up because it was the only path to the winning outcome he saw.
Which is also why he didn't stop Starlord from preventing them from taking the gauntlet, and was strangely silent regarding what he did after it happened.
Remember, Thanos tanked the Hulk and was manhandling Thor without the gauntlet's power. The stones have a clear visual cue when they are active as the stones glow, there is no indication they provide any passive benefits, and when he was beating up the Hulk and toying with the Asguardians the stones were inert.
It's also made clear that he has to be making a fist or performing some form of gesture to use the stones. That's why they were holding his hand open when they managed to subdue him temporarily.
This is Thanos we're talking about here, even if he is a weaker MCU version. Dr. Strange was probably more aware of what they were facing even without the gauntlet than anyone else there.
Starlord probably saved everyone's life in the long run by preventing them from getting the gauntlet from Thanos. He might have had a tougher time, but probably still would have beaten them, and would have been a lot less likely to consider Dr. Strange's deal if they had taken it from him at any point.
Thanos had already won by that point and did't really need the Infinity Gauntlet to beat everyone there to death with his bare hands. Remember, he ripped the armor off of Iron Man's head with his bare hand at one point in the fight and was almost casual about it. Again, without the help of the Infinity Gauntlet.
They literally barely managed to scratch him, and again, -without the Infinity Gauntlet- he was not using it to protect himself. He did exactly once that I recall, and that was when Tony dropped a spaceship on him. He probably didn't even really need to do so and just did it to make getting it off of him easier.
Infinity Gauntlet or not, the heroes on Titan were not going to win that fight against Thanos. That's why Dr. Strange gave up the stone, because he was giving up the battle to win the war. That's why his last line was what it was.
Hmm. Maybe? Possibly? The last line makes more sense that concept, IE placing Thanos in position where their side could win in the end. The whole series of scenes on Titan still feel as if something happened there that we didn't see that will become extremely relevant in the future. Granted, the time stone being enchanted is a bit of a stretch, but... Something that will be revisited.
Also looking at the dead/alive list from http://time.com/5252990/avengers-infinity-war-deaths/ I wouldn't be surprised if the pull somehow a switch and those who are now did live and those who are alive right now, die.
Also looking at the dead/alive list from http://time.com/5252990/avengers-infinity-war-deaths/ I wouldn't be surprised if the pull somehow a switch and those who are now did live and those who are alive right now, die.
No way they switch in the next Avengers movie and have it star those who vanished.
This is the big finale for the Original Avengers, all of whom survived. This is the movie that closes out the era of that original team. They've directly said so from multiple sources regarding the next movie. It's the finale and "ending" to the previous ten years of movies, and the start of the next era. [Which may be officially kicking off with Captain Marvel.]
There will be some new elements involved, but this is the original team's movie for sure.
Not all of them will likely survive the next movie, but the only thing I'm 100% sure of is that it is not going to be a bait and switch.
This is the big finale for the Original Avengers, all of whom survived. This is the movie that closes out the era of that original team. They've directly said so from multiple sources regarding the next movie. It's the finale and "ending" to the previous ten years of movies, and the start of the next era. [Which may be officially kicking off with Captain Marvel.]
There will be some new elements involved, but this is the original team's movie for sure.
Not all of them will likely survive the next movie, but the only thing I'm 100% sure of is that it is not going to be a bait and switch.
