Marvel Civil... War?

DhampyrX2

Well-Known Member
#1
Ok this idea has been bugging me enough since I suggested it that I had to put it down here for a proper discussion. Feel free to chime in on how to work things or rant about how much it sucks.

There technically was another way for most heros to handle the "Civil War" scenario. In fact, the discussion of Ares pretty much suggested it. Leave the fucking U.S. All of this bullshit was Marvel's USA acting like an ass.

You want to deport Ares? Fine, he can ship himself to Greece with his son and be treated a whole hell of a lot better there while still providing for the both of them.

Doom would be smart enough of jump at the chance to offer citizenship to supers willing to play ball and concede to his superiority.

Heroes like Wolverine are Canadian to begin with and can go home. Canada and Mexico could practically become world powers just by offering citizenship and freedom to the superhero community and anyone they want to bring along with them.

All of a sudden their threats either follow their respective leaders and leave the US alone to bother the arch enemies they like to hassle, OR the US looks like an ass trying to handle things that are beyond them and have to pretty much beg the newly expatriated heroes to save their asses.

And on the idea of the US passing a law banning supers from using mass transportation or their powers to leave the sinking ship:



About a tenth as long as it would take for at least half of them to have left and the rest to WALK or over the Mexican and Canadian borders, never mind leaving quietly for those that have secret identities, or get transport from people like Doom who can pretty much say "Fuck you: Diplomatic Immunity."

Not that Doom needs immunity from prosecution, or would care if the US tried to come after him. Although I pity them if even a blade of Latverian grass was bruised when they did so.


Wait... nope I can't find a shred of pity for them at all.

So there's the crux of it. The US tries to pull their registration act and pretty much triggers a mass exodus to other countries to handle crime and corruption there, where people will let them do what they need to do. Whether Iron Man goes as well and moves Stark Enterprises to be headquartered in another location is up for debate. I could very easily see Spiderman going either way with this. On one hand he's a guilt-whore that might want to sacrafice himself for the greater good and set an example. On the other hand, he has Aunt May and MJ to worry about.

Cap and most of the Avengers are gone, possibly helping to form a new version of Alpha Flight for Canada. I could easily see Wolverine using his own national connections to get the X-men proper and the kids at the Academy moved to Canada as well. At best you have maybe a tenth, more likely less, of the supers (hero, villain, and neutral) that are at large in the US remaining there, a PR nightmare as the more savvy and well liked like Shulkie admonish the government through the media from a continent away for chasing their own superheroes out after every threat pops up that they clearly can't handle.

And of course you have Doom snapping up supporters that are willing to follow his rule of law in exchange for evacuating them after the US presumably tries to close the borders and stem the exodus. World power balances shift as people that could laugh off tactical nukes are no longer defending the old US of A.

How does this change things?
 

JiigarGhen

Well-Known Member
#2
Doom likely offers everyone he can get his hands on massive benefits. Doom now has his own army of super-beings. Enjoy your fragile peace while it lasts.

"With their stupidity and bigotry, America has already begun down the path to Doom. Why should I not simply accelerate the process?"
 

Kayeich

Well-Known Member
#3
Welllllll....just due to reputation from Doom, I don't see a lot of heroes going to Latveria because of benefits and a promise to 'toe the line' or whatnot.

Actually, I don't see Doom -offering- in the first place, simply because heroes are historically unreliable when it comes to emotions of what's right or wrong. If they feel a law is unjust, they act. That'd just cause chaos he wouldn't want to bother with. Then again...

Really, the biggest concern in relations to the Civil War was giving away identities, putting loved ones in danger and/or destroying any private life they could hope for, due to the simple fact of how -easy- it is to hack into any database where identities are stored.

Going to a country ruled by -Doom- is just asking to say "Oh, my secret identity is..." as soon as you show up in either your civilian or hero identity in addition to whichever identity showed up first.

Actually, any mass exodus of people, a villain could 'reasonably' (or unreasonably if he's just a trigger happy psycho, of which there's no end) that they're either a hero, a friend of a hero, or family for heroes.

Moving to kill someone who leaves the country the villains would just end up convincing to end up sticking with the US despite disagreements due the fact that there's the thinly veiled defense offered by the government by staying.

Moving reveals your cards or makes it look like you have cards to reveal, unless a -lot- of non-related civilians join in on the exodus, enough to make it hard for a villain to feel its worth attacking.

Now, assuming this -did- happen, where you have both heroes -and- civilians leaving, making a bad case scenario into a worse one, I do imagine most would migrate to Europe and Canada, admittedly.

Notably, while the US can force a law making heroes reveal their identities and register with the government (they -were- technically vigilantes, which isn't exactly working with the law), forcing a law to make people stay -in- the country just fully reeks of a blow against freedom, and would inspire a lot more people to think that something's wrong.

If anything, they'd want to focus on propaganda attacks on cowardly and/or irresponsible heroes abandoning their country.

I'm split on what Captain America would do. Part of me believes that he would still fight at first, not abandon the country, especially in the face of propaganda attacks like the above. On the other hand, I do believe he'd eventually end up disillusioned enough to go elsewhere, and change his name (as he's done so before when disillusioned with his country). Amusingly, I'd think it great if he went to France and threw a salute to his Ultimates counterpart's France speech by instead mocking the US.

Really, that whole Civil War was one big fuck-up mess and so much of it still rubs me the wrong way. The "It was a SKRULL!!!" issue lately just makes it worse, honestly, especially as a lot of the major players which I thought were acting strange were most definitely not replaced.

Reed Richards is one of the ones that really bugged me. When the government tried to meddle with his family, and move Franklin/Valeria to foster homes due to the danger inherently present within the Baxter building, they specifically argued that it was safer to be with them and that no database would be able to sufficiently protect the location of his children. This is then proven when at the end, they fake a submission of paperwork moving his kids to an empty foster home which is promptly blown up by missiles within a few days. His easy acceptance of the new laws and just waving concerns off with an "I calculated this was the right thing to do" following that sort of thing, being one of those insisting they'd be able to maintain security of identities....just rubbed me the wrong way.

Admittedly, there -is- circumstancial evidence that he might have launched the missiles himself, and he was just making stuff up to keep his family with him. Still, you'd think it'd be a valid concern for him to consider instead of just forging ahead and consequences be damned. What kinda cockamamie super-genius scientist does that?
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#4
The biggest problem is that Doom would be far more likely to not offer anyone haven. It'd be way more amusing to see his enemies disintegrate under their own infighting.

Plus, can you imagine his glee at watching Reed Richards make a total fool of himself? That alone is something that requires his full attention, as he has to enjoy every minute. He has no time for something as minor as building a superhero army. It's RICHARDS destroying his own credibility and reputation. Nothing else matters.
 

Kayeich

Well-Known Member
#5
Heh, yeah, Doom would like that.

As for me, I'm still waiting for them to say that when the Mad Thinker checked Reed's calculations on the Civil War, it was a skrull. Reed actually forgot to carry a 2, and the solution would have said the best solution was entirely opposite to what he did. It seems Sue was right, and he was a dumbass about the whole thing. Whoops!
 

DhampyrX2

Well-Known Member
#6
Ok, so Doom offering haven to anyone would be out then. I honestly could see him offering sanctuary to civilians caught between the super and the government, though. What other changes do you think would arise from this scenario?
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#7
DhampyrX2 said:
Ok, so Doom offering haven to anyone would be out then. I honestly could see him offering sanctuary to civilians caught between the super and the government, though. What other changes do you think would arise from this scenario?
I actually can see another monarch offering haven.

Black Panther.

Cue Wakanda conquering the world. :p
 

JiigarGhen

Well-Known Member
#8
GenocideHeart said:
DhampyrX2 said:
Ok, so Doom offering haven to anyone would be out then.? I honestly could see him offering sanctuary to civilians caught between the super and the government, though.? What other changes do you think would arise from this scenario?
I actually can see another monarch offering haven.

Black Panther.

Cue Wakanda conquering the world. :p
Imagine what would happen if Black Panther offered sanctuary to Iron Man, if Tony really got tired of the bullshit the government was pulling.

Vibranium Iron Man suits for the Wakandan army, anyone? :snigger:
 

paulo_j1983

Well-Known Member
#9
JiigarGhen said:
GenocideHeart said:
DhampyrX2 said:
Ok, so Doom offering haven to anyone would be out then.á I honestly could see him offering sanctuary to civilians caught between the super and the government, though.á What other changes do you think would arise from this scenario?
I actually can see another monarch offering haven.

Black Panther.

Cue Wakanda conquering the world. :p
Imagine what would happen if Black Panther offered sanctuary to Iron Man, if Tony really got tired of the bullshit the government was pulling.

Vibranium Iron Man suits for the Wakandan army, anyone? :snigger:
Nick Fury: Guess what I've found sniffing around Washington.

Tony looks at the SHRA draft proposal

Tony Stark: Oh that's it. Screw you guys I'm going home.

Tony takes the offer the Wakanda Embassy gives him.

Tony Startk: Put it right there brotha.

Black Panther:Right on brotha.

(Hey I don't know any who wears more metal than Ironman, except Mr T.)
 
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