Bleach New Bleach Filler Arc
- Thread starter ~NGD OMEGA~
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I actually liked most of the Amagi arc, the ending was kinda lame, but other than that it was a good solid story with a lot of fun moments and fleshed out some of the stuff that's been mentioned in passing during the manga, but not elaborated on. I don't, however, count it as canon - for me it's like the Dragonball Z movies, good clean ass-kicking fun without any effect on the actual storyline.
I'm looking forward to seeing if this new filler arc is as solid as the Amagi arc in its storytelling. To that end, does anyone know what episode this is supposed to start from? I haven't been following the anime lately so I have no idea where it is.
I'm looking forward to seeing if this new filler arc is as solid as the Amagi arc in its storytelling. To that end, does anyone know what episode this is supposed to start from? I haven't been following the anime lately so I have no idea where it is.
The only problem with this Raine, is that the Inner Hollow became dominant over Old Man Zangetsu 'before' Ichigo started training his Hollow powers. It's suggested that the changeover happened between the Bankai training, and the Byakura fight, which was when it first started manifesting. It was only after the Inner Hollow started manifesting that Ichigo tried to learn how to control it, and began training his Hollow powers.
The only things we know is that the Inner Hollow started growing stronger, eventually becoming dominant over the aspect of Old Man Zangetsu. This is why the Inner Hollow could start controlling him when he was using Bankai, because he was drawing on larger amounts of the Inner Hollow's power.
They never establish 'why' the Inner Hollow became dominant, just that it did. It's possible, from what little we know of Vizards, that the mere fact one 'has' an Inner Hollow, that its mere existence causes it to grow and eventually dominate the Zanpakto's personality. Whatever Aizen and crew did to the the Vizards may simply have been an excellerated version of what happened to Ichigo, causing it to form, and grow within seconds or minutes, instead of weeks.
As for Zanpakto rebelling. If the Inner Hollows, which are 'also' part of the Shinigami's soul, can try and rebel, why not Zanpakto?
The only things we know is that the Inner Hollow started growing stronger, eventually becoming dominant over the aspect of Old Man Zangetsu. This is why the Inner Hollow could start controlling him when he was using Bankai, because he was drawing on larger amounts of the Inner Hollow's power.
They never establish 'why' the Inner Hollow became dominant, just that it did. It's possible, from what little we know of Vizards, that the mere fact one 'has' an Inner Hollow, that its mere existence causes it to grow and eventually dominate the Zanpakto's personality. Whatever Aizen and crew did to the the Vizards may simply have been an excellerated version of what happened to Ichigo, causing it to form, and grow within seconds or minutes, instead of weeks.
As for Zanpakto rebelling. If the Inner Hollows, which are 'also' part of the Shinigami's soul, can try and rebel, why not Zanpakto?
If there's a problem with it, then it's with Tite, because I'm repeating the manga verbatim. Hichigo and Old Man Zangetsu are one in the same. That's pretty much end of story. There's nothing more to say. If you're having doubts, I can cite manga pages.
And if you're interested in guessing why it happened when it did, then I would presume Hichigo taking over Ichigo's body likely had something to do with it.
And if you're interested in guessing why it happened when it did, then I would presume Hichigo taking over Ichigo's body likely had something to do with it.
Ah, right before Ichigo defeats him. I see. I'll point out that when Ichigo does defeat him, the Inner Hollow gets covered in Zangetsu's cloak, from the sword-wound out. That's more evidence in favor of the "Inner Hollow is Zangetsu" theory, and probably a sign that the Shinigami side was getting a bit stronger.
If they were the same then his clothes wouldn't have changed. Because if they were the same then one side being dominant or not wouldn't matter. It's possibly something more like Hollow Ichigo is a part of Ichigo so because Ichigo is a shinigami he was forced to wear Ichigo's outfit as a sign of Ichigo's dominance. The fact that the coat is like Zangetsu's is probably because Zangetsu is a Zanpakuto and is closer to Ichigo than he could be to a Hollow.
His clothes themselves didn't change (basically it was still 'Zangetsu's Cloak'), the color was just inverted. The same thing happened in reverse with Ichigo's bankai sword when Hichigo touched it (Subsequently causing it to fade away), and also when Ichigo grabbed his sword, with enough force to also convert a part of his sleeve. The cloak is like Zangetsu's for the simple fact that Hichigo was using Zangetsu's Bankai in that fight with the inverted sword and the cloak is a feature of that, and when Ichigo 'won' the clothes simply turned black again.
I'll give the fady thing, though if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I'm pretty sure that was like one panel, and really was probably the 'explosive' conversion effect that I'm positive settled, but Ichigo's coat IS red and black. Secondly, dude, black and white pages.
Edit: Note said effect here:
Papery, kinda envoloping both the blade and his hand. And here:
Same kinda thing, abet far more violent. Seriously though:
Save the fact that he's fading away, dude looks like he's a mirror image right there.
Though really, looking back I did notice a trace difference between the two...
Problem is it's mostly in that prominent collar right there, which, noticably Hichigo lacks in that panel right there. It's all prim cut and everything.
Edit: Note said effect here:
Papery, kinda envoloping both the blade and his hand. And here:
Same kinda thing, abet far more violent. Seriously though:
Save the fact that he's fading away, dude looks like he's a mirror image right there.
Though really, looking back I did notice a trace difference between the two...
Problem is it's mostly in that prominent collar right there, which, noticably Hichigo lacks in that panel right there. It's all prim cut and everything.
Uh, when did I say or imply they weren't the same?
No, that just gives us an idea of 'when' it happened, not explaining 'why' it happened. Hichigo had to have become the dominant aspect for it to have tried to take over like that.
Until I see something in the manga that contradicts it, I'll keep my theory of it simply being in the nature of an Inner Hollow to grow and eventually overtake the Zanpakto aspect.
No, that just gives us an idea of 'when' it happened, not explaining 'why' it happened. Hichigo had to have become the dominant aspect for it to have tried to take over like that.
Until I see something in the manga that contradicts it, I'll keep my theory of it simply being in the nature of an Inner Hollow to grow and eventually overtake the Zanpakto aspect.
Well, sure. The fact that there are an awful lot of low-rank shinigami (plus Kenpachi) walking around without knowing the name of their weapon indicate that the zanpakuto can make a decision contrary to the desire of the wielder. If you want to be picky, you can frame it as "Their soul recognizes they're not ready" or "Parts of their spirit are conflicted with other parts", but it comes down to the zanpakuto not doing what the wielder wants.
Indeed, there also appears to be an element of choice on the zanpakuto's part regarding bankai, as well as with whether the wielders can materialize the zanpakuto's spirit.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Sealed Sword Frenzy OVA. Not manga canon, of course, but presumably KT was involved in some way, and the OVA did imply two things: (a) during the Kenpachi fight, when Ichigo was talking about giving his power to Zangetsu and borrowing Zangetsu's in return, that actually meant something, and (b) sometimes doing that goes really really poorly, as the zanpakuto doesn't want to give that power back.
Indeed, there also appears to be an element of choice on the zanpakuto's part regarding bankai, as well as with whether the wielders can materialize the zanpakuto's spirit.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Sealed Sword Frenzy OVA. Not manga canon, of course, but presumably KT was involved in some way, and the OVA did imply two things: (a) during the Kenpachi fight, when Ichigo was talking about giving his power to Zangetsu and borrowing Zangetsu's in return, that actually meant something, and (b) sometimes doing that goes really really poorly, as the zanpakuto doesn't want to give that power back.
~NGD OMEGA~ said:
I'll give the fady thing, though if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I'm pretty sure that was like one panel, and really was probably the 'explosive' conversion effect that I'm positive settled, but Ichigo's coat IS red and black. Secondly, dude, black and white pages.
Edit: Note said effect here:
Papery, kinda envoloping both the blade and his hand. And here:
Same kinda thing, abet far more violent. Seriously though:
Save the fact that he's fading away, dude looks like he's a mirror image right there.
Though really, looking back I did notice a trace difference between the two...
Problem is it's mostly in that prominent collar right there, which, noticably Hichigo lacks in that panel right there. It's all prim cut and everything.
Edit: Note said effect here:
Papery, kinda envoloping both the blade and his hand. And here:
Same kinda thing, abet far more violent. Seriously though:
Save the fact that he's fading away, dude looks like he's a mirror image right there.
Though really, looking back I did notice a trace difference between the two...
Problem is it's mostly in that prominent collar right there, which, noticably Hichigo lacks in that panel right there. It's all prim cut and everything.
Actually the 'not heard the swords name' seems to imply that there is some agency OUTSIDE the Zanpaktou who is stopping the sword from revealing its name to the shinigami. Just as when Zangetsu tried to tell Ichigo's his name and there was the static. I would imagine that would be fairly consistent. Aka once you pass some kind of 'level' or your spiritual energy and or sensitivity rises above some arbitatry level you can actually hear the swords name.
Also, is it just me, or was Zangetsu implying Ichigo's internal world is sideways because he's a Visored?
As for Ichigo's inner Hollow becoming the dominant aspect of Ichigo's power, well, what's the thing that triggers the creation of a hollow, and is one of their big themes? Instinct.
What was ichigo relying on during his fights in Soul Society? Instinct. How did he learn so fast? Instinct. How did his bleeding stopin his fight with Kenpachi? Instinct (and possibly low-level hollow regeneration). Not to mention the mask showing up multiple times to take the force out of what should have been lethal blows. Ichigo was using his Hollow powers ever since he got out of the Shattered Shaft, it's just that they didn't become obvious until his final fight with Byakuya.
As for Ichigo's inner Hollow becoming the dominant aspect of Ichigo's power, well, what's the thing that triggers the creation of a hollow, and is one of their big themes? Instinct.
What was ichigo relying on during his fights in Soul Society? Instinct. How did he learn so fast? Instinct. How did his bleeding stopin his fight with Kenpachi? Instinct (and possibly low-level hollow regeneration). Not to mention the mask showing up multiple times to take the force out of what should have been lethal blows. Ichigo was using his Hollow powers ever since he got out of the Shattered Shaft, it's just that they didn't become obvious until his final fight with Byakuya.