Bleach Nothing Could Be Further From The Truth

[Alstreim]

So I was prowling ff.net for Ichi/Senna fics when my annoyance at the idea of a nonShinigami-Ichigo-after-Aizen reached a boiling point. With this came the idea (and the will) to a write one-shot where Ichigo has a private laugh at the expense of almost everyone who thinks he's now a normal human. The premise being that he actually still has a fair amount of reiatsu despite his loss of Zangetsu (which I think would return eventually in the same manner it did for Isshin) but that no one can actually sense it because, as Aizen put it, he's a transcendental being 'above' other regular shinigami/quincy/empowered souls and thus beyond their ability to sense. This is basically a way for me to rid myself of the intense feelings of annoyance that I feel every time I think of Bleach now.

Thing is I'm barely passable knowledge-wise about the last parts of of the 'war' since I've only read the highlights (in other words Ichigo vs Aizen). Thus, I'm faced with the question of whether others (meaning close friends like Rukia, Chad, etc as well as Tatsuki, Keigo and Mizuiro) beside Aizen know the reason they could not sense Ichigo's reiatsu during the final battle.

Anyway, pardon me if I butchered concepts and things that were introduced during the parts of the manga I haven't read.

 

[Lord Raine]

I hate Bleach now but haven't actually been following what's happened, help plz

:huh:

Well, whatever. Hating aside, I don't see why this has to be nearly as complicated as you said. Ichigo had no presence that anyone could sense after his last powerup. This is just a simple case of everyone making an assumption. He no longer has Zangetsu, and no one can feel anything from him, so he's clearly lost all his power. He doesn't have to be running on leftovers, or anything of the sort. He also doesn't have to hide, really. He'll just let everyone assume what they want and not bother to correct them, and go back to attending college.

The biggest problem is what is the point in all of this. Even as a oneshot, I don't see how you can make a story out of this. So Ichigo didn't actually lose his spirit powers (which I would argue may be what actually happened in canon, all things considered). Okay, fine. So what? What are you going to do? Imply? Say? What is going to be the reason to read this? You don't have a story here.

 

[yog]

Well, for oneshot you can probably go with the fanon of evil soul society and, say, make them try to assassinate Karin at some point after she gets her shinigami's powers. At this point it's Ichigo to the rescue.
As to why he chose to do nothing... Well, he's just not interested in the saving of the world. It's not his job. So he trains in private (for his own pleasure), maybe kills any menos grande before they are detected (if menos are trying to eat his sisters/friends), but otherwise leaves shinigami to their own ways.
He is, after all, no longer a shinigami. He is something else. Thus, it is not his job to cleanse holows. Besides, for him it would be boring. Oh, he could go to hueco mundo and cleanse it by himself... But that would be boring too - nobody can even hit him because of his trans-dimensional status.
So... he just lives. Until there is the need to bail his idiot little sister out.

 

[soulful100]

So... he just lives. Until there is the need to bail his idiot little sister out.

You know actually this is a highly plausible AU. After all in the beginning Ichigo clearly stated that he had no wish to fight for other people. The only reason he did is because he wanted to pay Rukia back for taking her powers and indirectly protect his family. Seriously, all the fights in manga are just him trying to save someone he cares about. If they weren't in any danger i bet he'll just say "FUCK OFF" :flameon: and walk away...


Anyway I'm guessing that he fooled everyone except Sado since... he's Sado. And that the only time he steps in is when the is no other choice? And basically own at it? :flameon: :flameon:

 

[yog]

That can actually be another plot-point: since Sado is not fooled, he can be training (with ichigo) to become trans-dimensional himself. We don't see zangetsu, because he is with Sado, helping him to develop shinigami-like abilities in order to transcend hollow/shinigami boundary.

 

[Lord Raine]

It's been mentioned several times that Ichigo fights because he likes to fight, and uses saving people and repaying debts as an excuse. If he really didn't care about fighting, he wouldn't have spent his spare time beating the living shit out of random street punks with Chad. He likes fighting, just like Chad and Tatsuki do. He just didn't want to admit it to himself, because he sees loving to fight as kind of a bad thing. But he had to confront and accept that part of himself in order to gain control over his Hollow powers. He had to accept the fact that he wanted to fight Grimmjaw just because he wanted to fight Grimmjaw, and that it didn't really have anything to do with Orihime anymore. He had already saved her, and Grimmjaw wasn't the one who kidnapped her in the first place, so they had no actual beef, but he still wanted to fight anyway. And you will note that the moment he came to that realization and accepted it, the eleven second time limit on his mask went up in smoke.

Mold this into Evil Soul Society going after new outsider Shinigami Karin if you like, but don't try and put Ichigo on some sort of "I only fight to defend my friends" pedestal. He and Chad have probably been beating the fuck out of the local Yakuza chapters for kicks during the intermission time skip. If that sort of thing happened, it would be less "waking the slumbering defender" and more "oh, so you want to GO bitches?"

 

[yog]

That could work too. Also, the love to fight can explain why he doesn't. No opponents. He may sometimes go into hueco mundo to search for most ancient, most powerful Vasto Lorde. He's also training Chad for transcending to have some worthy sparring partner. He doesn't train Tatsuki cause, well, she's weak. At least compared to Chad.
He also wouldn't just attack with soul society (especially if they are not evil), because it would endanger his sisters/friends. And you may say anything about him, but protecting his friends IS one of his priorities. That (endangering his sisters) may also be the reason why he let's everyone assume that he is powerless.

 

[Amodelsino]

It's been mentioned several times that Ichigo fights because he likes to fight, and uses saving people and repaying debts as an excuse. If he really didn't care about fighting, he wouldn't have spent his spare time beating the living shit out of random street punks with Chad. He likes fighting, just like Chad and Tatsuki do. He just didn't want to admit it to himself, because he sees loving to fight as kind of a bad thing. But he had to confront and accept that part of himself in order to gain control over his Hollow powers. He had to accept the fact that he wanted to fight Grimmjaw just because he wanted to fight Grimmjaw, and that it didn't really have anything to do with Orihime anymore. He had already saved her, and Grimmjaw wasn't the one who kidnapped her in the first place, so they had no actual beef, but he still wanted to fight anyway. And you will note that the moment he came to that realization and accepted it, the eleven second time limit on his mask went up in smoke.

Mold this into Evil Soul Society going after new outsider Shinigami Karin if you like, but don't try and put Ichigo on some sort of "I only fight to defend my friends" pedestal. He and Chad have probably been beating the fuck out of the local Yakuza chapters for kicks during the intermission time skip. If that sort of thing happened, it would be less "waking the slumbering defender" and more "oh, so you want to GO bitches?"

That's simplifying it massively. He wanted to fight to gain power. He wanted power because he hated being unable to stop people around him being harmed. Just go read the Chapter 0 Side A, or what Dream-Kenpachi actually says to him in the fight with Hollow Ichigo. He doesn't fight to fight. He fights to gain power.

Not to mention, your examples are incorrect, or at least selectively remembered. He never started fights in the first place, he got into them because people thought he was a delinquent, and they started the fights. The only fights that didn't fulfill that criteria were when he was helping other people (Chad, Ghost Girl etc.). He didn't go around looking for strong people to fight. Hell, he was a fucking crybaby mamas boy until she got eaten.

Also, you used the Grimmjow fight and ignored what Ichigo actually responded with. The idea that he came there to fight Grimmjow was bullshit. Grim was in the way, and after he beat him he intended to save everyone and leave (keep in mind I'm not saying he didn't want to fight Grimmjow, just that the other stuff wasn't excuses).

He does enjoy battle, the viewpoint of Hollow Ichigo shows that, but it is most certainly not his driving force. When it comes down to it, Ichigo does what he does because when he was 9 years old his mother was slaughtered in front of him and he couldn't do shit.

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

Ichigo's a tad inconsistent frankly. On the one hand the stuff he does tends to clearly suggest that he's fighting to save his buddies, yet some of the garbage he does doesn't make sense unless he was trying to fight for the pure sake of battle. Grimmjaw being in the way is all well and good, but both Chad and Rukia were bleeding on the ground when any old hollow could have come and bitten or cut their heads off at any moment (And one nearly did mind) and he's telling Orihime to heal Grimmjaw before the fight starts. Wasting both time required for that to happen, and making defeating him quickly a tad harder. A bit counterproductive no?

And don't get me started on the cut off my arms and legs too stupidity.

In short it plain comes off, like Raine said, that he's in denial most of the time. Which is insanely annoying when the same damn lesson has to be relearned repeatedly and he keeps bloody forgetting it right after doing so. If the bloody lesson could finally sink in he'd probably be doing a lot better for himself to say the least.

 

[Amodelsino]

All that means is that he has a ridiculous sense of pride.

He didn't say to cut off his arm and leg so he could enjoy the fight (why would it allow him to?), he said it to make it fair because winning the way he did just wasn't cricket.

That doesn't come across as someone battlecrazy to me, just plain crazy.

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

Well yeah. It's his obsession with fighting battles winning fairly and all that, regardless of whether doing so or not still would have left you getting godstomped had the fight continued for more than a couple of seconds and leading to every one of your buddies dying as soon as he got around to it had he more than a few seconds to live. Well at least in the Ulquiorra case anyway. Prove he doesn't need tricks and advantages to win, get stronger via fighting, fair battles, etc... Thought that was implied. :mellow:

 

[Amodelsino]

I never said that he was a completely one-dimensional "I'll protect my friends/nakama!" character. I said that he doesn't search out and fight people because of enjoyment of battle.

Grimmjow's opinion is not automatically more accurate than both evidence through action and his own damn subconscious spelling it out.

 

[lawl]

If you go with Ichigo not wanting to fight and training Chad...Wasn't Chad all about protecting people and all that?

I could see Chad being angry at Ichigo and perhaps their friendship sort of ending.

Now skip a few years: Karin is the next subsitute, with Chad, Ishida and Orihime helping her occasionally. Some shit hits the fan and once again both worlds are on the verge of destruction(lol cliche). Shinigami and their allies are losing to the bad guys.

So Chad seeks out Ichigo and begs him to help them out, eventually Ichigo agrees and cunt punches everyone.

Or that's the basic outline or something...

/I came out of lurking for this...not worth it, is it?

 

[soulful100]

If you go with Ichigo not wanting to fight and training Chad...Wasn't Chad all about protecting people and all that?

I could see Chad being angry at Ichigo and perhaps their friendship sort of ending.

Now skip a few years: Karin is the next subsitute, with Chad, Ishida and Orihime helping her occasionally. Some shit hits the fan and once again both worlds are on the verge of destruction(lol cliche). Shinigami and their allies are losing to the bad guys.

So Chad seeks out Ichigo and begs him to help them out, eventually Ichigo agrees and cunt punches everyone.

Or that's the basic outline or something...

/I came out of lurking for this...not worth it, is it?

Okay lawl no offense or anything but there are a few things wrong with your points.

1) Chad will NEVER abandon Ichigo. Ever. Seriously go watch the first few eps, when Ichigo and Chad were fighting that gang Chad practically swore loyalty to Ichigo Even if Ichigo doesnt want to fight any more I don't think their friendship will be broken off like that.

2) While it IS possible for Karin to become the next substitute, she'll most likely have her own friends to help her (e.g. Jinta and the other girl at Urahara's).While Uryu Chad and Orihime may help every now and then, they'll mostly likely be in college/university bin a few years time. Same for Ichigo too.

3) This is Ichigo we're talking about. Do you really think if Karin was in mortal danger with both worlds about to get screwed he would just sit back? He ain't Urahara.

So I believe if it really comes down to it, Ichigo will arrive to everybody's ass.After all in the SS arc he freaking broke 3 vice-captains shikai with his bare hands! :flameon: :flameon: :lonegunman:

 

[zeebee1]

Ichigo needs to help people. He did it when he didn't have power. He did it when he had power. And he kept doing it as he gained more power. It's the result of his character trauma. He'd be more likely to save people when no one was looking. He's fast enough to do it.

 

[Lord Raine]

It's been mentioned several times that Ichigo fights because he likes to fight, and uses saving people and repaying debts as an excuse. If he really didn't care about fighting, he wouldn't have spent his spare time beating the living shit out of random street punks with Chad. He likes fighting, just like Chad and Tatsuki do. He just didn't want to admit it to himself, because he sees loving to fight as kind of a bad thing. But he had to confront and accept that part of himself in order to gain control over his Hollow powers. He had to accept the fact that he wanted to fight Grimmjaw just because he wanted to fight Grimmjaw, and that it didn't really have anything to do with Orihime anymore. He had already saved her, and Grimmjaw wasn't the one who kidnapped her in the first place, so they had no actual beef, but he still wanted to fight anyway. And you will note that the moment he came to that realization and accepted it, the eleven second time limit on his mask went up in smoke.

Mold this into Evil Soul Society going after new outsider Shinigami Karin if you like, but don't try and put Ichigo on some sort of "I only fight to defend my friends" pedestal. He and Chad have probably been beating the fuck out of the local Yakuza chapters for kicks during the intermission time skip. If that sort of thing happened, it would be less "waking the slumbering defender" and more "oh, so you want to GO bitches?"

That's simplifying it massively.

Of course it is. I described in two paragraphs what took 300+ chapters to convey. Ichigo loves to fight, but he doesn't care about being strong. That was never a concern for him (whether this was because he could kick the shit out of anyone he wanted (i.e. he was the strongest) or because he genuinely didn't care about strength is up for personal interpretation).

The only reason he ever gave a damn about getting stronger was because he quickly became completely outclassed in terms of skill, experience, and firepower once the main plot kicked in. But Ichigo did love to fight, even before he ever got Shinigami powers. He made up excuses for doing it, but he still went around with Chad and beat on thugs.

The same actually goes for Chad as well, though I'm sure Omega will probably throw a pissfit over my saying so. Chad likes to protect people, but he likes fighting as well. His power reflects that. Chad desperately wants to be a pacifist due to his past, but a part of him has always enjoyed fighting and violence. That's why his second arm mutation has absolutely no point or use beyond destroying things in an explosion of raw power and violence. It is literally nothing BUT a weapon designed to break things and blow holes through people in the most absurdly over-the-top display of brute strength possible. Chad, just like Ichigo, didn't just go to Hueco Mundo to rescue Orihime. He went there because it was only in Heuco Mundo that both of them could finally bring themselves to admit and accept that they like fighting and beating the crap out of people. And once they did, both of their powers evolved to reflect their acceptance of themselves.

Wasn't Chad all about protecting people and all that?

That's what Chad became after nearly murdering other kids in a fistfight, only for his grandfather to step in and protect him when their fathers came around to get revenge.

Chad isn't "all about" protecting people. That's what he told himself and practiced in his life so he could sleep at night. In his heart and soul, Chad is really all about this:

Or have you forgotten what the 'Arm of the Devil' was all about? And the fact that Ichigo and Chad hunted down street thugs and gang members in their free time during high school?

The Arm of the Giant represents Chad's vow to his grandfather after he stopped being a bully. The Arm of the Demon represents the violence and battlelust that Chad represses, his 'true self.'

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

The same actually goes for Chad as well, though I'm sure Omega will probably throw a pissfit over my saying so.

Frankly Chad hasn't had anywhere near the same level of development as Ichigo as to why he fights so it's literally impossible for me to call anything either way. The only time it's covered is when Shunsui asks why Chad risks his life to save someone he's only known a month, who then answers that it's purely because Ichigo is there fighting for her, and that's already enough reason for him.

Whether you interpret this as him being a bro, or just being down with it if Ichigo's up for a fight is completely up for grabs. Unlike Ichigo he hasn't had any clear cut scenes in which an actual line has been defined for him, mostly because by the time the shit hits the fan he's usually already on the ground bleeding. There's never been a point where he's had to choose between a fight or avoiding it in some fashion to save one of their dying friends that could easily have been killed if literally anything walked up to them at that point to say the least.

Though granted he might have been able to skip Shunsui if he backed off and bolted from a different direction, but given Shunsui's fast, this depends entirely on how lazy the drunk was being and whether or not Chad was willing to risk it...

 

[Alstreim]

I absolutely love this forum guys (I'm being literal here). There's something special in seeing a thread about an idea on writing a fic as a way to get closure on current Bleach events and asking for some info for it evolve into a philosophical discussion about the reasons why Chad/Sado and Ichigo do what they do.

Anyway, I was writing an early draft yesterday morning and got stuck on where to take it, now with some of the ideas being thrown around here I think I know where to go. I'm thinking of starting with Ichigo contemplating the situation, which would be used to explain Ichigo still having powers, then throw in him rescuing someone from a Hollow from the shadows as a way to emphasize him still having powers and the extent of them (still very much up there in the curbstomping capabilities department).

I also want to throw in Chad getting some training to become like Ichigo but I'm not sure how well that would mix with the end, which would be either rescuing SS from some big bad or rescuing Karin from Yamamoto being an idiot and wanting to execute her for something stupid. I'll have to think on this, maybe go read some of the manga chapters I haven't read as a refresher on Bleach.

Anyway, Happy Holidays guys. I probably won't be able to post for a couple of days after this, so have an early Happy New Years just in case I can't make it back before.

EDIT: I almost forgot to put this in, but yes Lord Raine you were right, there was no story, most likely there still isn't. But that what this subforum is for now isn't it? Have an idea, put it forward and see what others think of it, see what you think of your idea now, revise it if necessary, put the revised idea forward and see the reactions now, rinse and repeat until a story is born.

 

[soulful100]

I also want to throw in Chad getting some training to become like Ichigo but I'm not sure how well that would mix with the end, which would be either rescuing SS from some big bad or rescuing Karin from Yamamoto being an idiot and wanting to execute her for something stupid.

You know it is possible for Yami-jii to lock Karin up. As you know Yamamoto is a paranoid old geezer, so therefore he fears that which he can't understand or control. In this case, Kurosaki Ichigo.

So I'm guessing that Karin + her friends + a SS captain (e.g. hitsugaya) were getting their asses kicked by a big bunch of hollows, remnants of Aizen? , when right before their certain doom Ichigo saves them. Of course they don't KNOW who saved them, expect Chad, but they may suspect Ichigo since even without Zangetsu he's proved to be bad-ass. So the SS captain reports to Yamamoto, and after a few more of these mysterious miracle saves, he holds Karin hostage hoping that if Ichigo doesn't submits to his will his sister will DIE.

And so being found out and forced out of retirement, Ichigo storms SS again! Except the difference this time is that both sides have intel on each other. Oh and Ichigo is far more PISSED OFF and a lot more property damage occurs. Not to mention many more Shinigami inside would ally with themselves with Ichigo, I can practically see Zaraki and the whole 11th Division fighting with him... after a quick 1 on 1 battle between Zaraki and Ichigo of course.

If you want to take it a step FURTHER, you could always say that it was Maryuri(sp?) who instigated the whole thing so he could do research on the Kurosaki family XD.

 

[trevelyan1983]

Your Yamamoto sucks. As does your Yami. If the Shingami want Ichigo controlled, they'd send his friends to give him a recruiting spiel. If they want him gone as a threat, they'll kill him. Nowhere does kidnapping or hostage-taking enter into the equation.

 

[soulful100]

Your Yamamoto sucks. As does your Yami. If the Shingami want Ichigo controlled, they'd send his friends to give him a recruiting spiel. If they want him gone as a threat, they'll kill him. Nowhere does kidnapping or hostage-taking enter into the equation.

haha true. but there's no need to bash.

 

[NuclearTits]

I don't see why Chad needs to be powered up. He can just be Ichigo's Vice Captain.

 

[zeebee1]

When you compare the power difference between captains and most vice-captains that would actually work.

 

[Amodelsino]

Of course it is. I described in two paragraphs what took 300+ chapters to convey. Ichigo loves to fight, but he doesn't care about being strong.

Well done on proving you missed what happened in those 300+ chapters then.

He fights specifically because he cares about becoming strong. That was the entire point of 0 Side A, the entire point of his response to Grimmjow at the end of their fight, and what his own damn subconscious had to spell out to him.

 

[zeebee1]

Ichigo fights because he hates being helpless. That's always been the case.