Ranma ½ Original Japanese

[MZephyr]

I came across this little tidbit tonight, and had to share it somewhere. It didn't seem to fit an existing topic, so I created this topic, for anything concerning Ranma 1/2 in the original Japanese source material.

In the arc about Ryu Kumon, the umisen-ken and yamasen-ken (thousand sea fist and thousand mountain fist) are given in the original Japanese as ??? (umisenken) and ??? (yamasenken). It turns out that if you drop the ken's and combine these two you get ???? (umisenyamasen) which means "sly old dog" or "old fox", according to wwwjdic. Which in turn might be taken as a description of Genma, the one who created these martial arts styles.

In any case, it made me wonder if Takahashi-sensei might have looked at the word umisenyamasen, and decided to split it apart to name the two fighting styles for the story arc.

Edit: Corrected the kanji for ISO-8859.

 

[Lawra]

If true it would fit that she uses a lot of puns in her work. Nearly all of which are not translated well or even given a footnote.

 

[nuclear death frog]

-Fixed-

I had heard there was a word-play in the combined names of Genma's techniques, but I didn't know what it was. I like it; it fits him perfectly.

 

[MZephyr]

Sorry, I forgot this page uses ISO-8859, while my browser is set to UTF-8 by default. Let me know if this is any better.

??? - umisen-ken
??? - yamasen-ken
???? - umisenyamasen

 

[nuclear death frog]

-Fixed-

 

[seitora]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kanji in Japan basically like compound words, but a hella lot more complex?

 

[MZephyr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kanji in Japan basically like compound words, but a hella lot more complex?

Most kanji are formed from a few individual units known as radicals, where each radical has its own meaning. Sometimes you can look at the meaning of the kanji character, and the meanings of the individual radicals which compose it (when more than one), and say, "ah, yes, I see the connection". But more often, for me at least, there's no obvious correlation. And there's also often no relation between the various on or kun* pronunciations of the radicals and of the kanji.

They also make compound words out of two or more kanji which are a lot more like the construction of compound words in English.

[* Most kanji characters have both "on" pronunciations, derived from Chinese, and "kun" pronunciations, native to Japanese. The on readings are most commonly used, as I understand it, when the kanji are part of a compound.]

 

[MZephyr]

Make of this what you will. Ryoga addresses Akane as Akane-san throughout the series (even going so far as to add the "san" when spelling her name by punching holes in a boulder or wall). He also addresses Akari Unryu as Akari-san when they first meet, but after the introductory arc he consistently addresses her as Akari-chan.

And in case you're interested, she doesn't return the informality, instead going to the other extreme. Akari addresses him as Ryoga-sama throughout, even when he's a pig.

 

[nuclear death frog]

Make of this what you will. Ryoga addresses Akane as Akane-san throughout the series (even going so far as to add the "san" when spelling her name by punching holes in a boulder or wall). He also addresses Akari Unryu as Akari-san when they first meet, but after the introductory arc he consistently addresses her as Akari-chan.

And in case you're interested, she doesn't return the informality, instead going to the other extreme. Akari addresses him as Ryoga-sama throughout, even when he's a pig.

Well, that explains the thought that he's given up on Akane at the end, in order to pursue Akari.

 

[MZephyr]

Well, that explains the thought that he's given up on Akane at the end, in order to pursue Akari.

It could be looked at that way, and it's certainly my inclination. But in fairness, I believe other interpretations are possible. I'm no expert, but I think that for a boy to use the "chan" honorific for a girl at their age could be seen as indicating that he has a somewhat childish or immature view of their relationship.

The same can be said about the way Ranma addresses Ukyo. Ukyo saying Ranchan might be different, since she speaks some dialect of Japanese and also addresses Akane as Akane-chan.

 

[MZephyr]

Is there anyone here who knows Japanese better than my extreme beginner-level and can tell me whether I'm off base with the following?

In the final chapter, where VIZ has Akane say "But I am ... going to make you regret this." what she says in the Japanese is "????? ... ???????." This looks to me like she's just warning him that this is a decision he will regret, without necessarily suggesting that she will be the cause of his regret.

 

[nuclear death frog]

Ask Fallacy (fallacies ?), he's fluent. PM him.

 

[fallacies]

????? = sono kawari = in return / exchange
??????? = koukai-suru kara ne? = [unidentified subject]'ll regret it

 

[MZephyr]

I thought that sono kawari, taken together, meant something like however, but, or on the other hand. As for the second part, that's pretty much how I read it. Akane is suggesting Ranma will regret it (not going through with the wedding, from the previous frame), but she doesn't seem to be saying that she's the one who's going to make him regret it.

 

[Lawra]

I thought that sono kawari, taken together, meant something like however, but, or on the other hand. As for the second part, that's pretty much how I read it. Akane is suggesting Ranma will regret it (not going through with the wedding, from the previous frame), but she doesn't seem to be saying that she's the one who's going to make him regret it.

Well she is in on it and it's only after he didn't jump through her hoops that she brought it up. So she's about as close to making him regret it without actually being the one to do whatever Soun planned to do with the water if Ranma didn't go through with it.

It's a weak translation mostly because it makes her more overtly manipulative than she is being but it's not very far off.

 

[PCHeintz72]

The setup from the facts makes this simple...

1. She knew...

2. She did not tell...

3. The one whom issued the ultimatum/threat/warning/manipulation to him was not Soun, but her...

If you take the approach that she *could* not tell him due to Soun being family head and fobidding her... then why issue what amounts to a threat or a warning or a manipulation at all.

If you take the approach that she did not care or was not told not to tell him, why not outright state why. And if it was to find out if he really loved her, threatening him or even just giving him a dire warning would not seem to be the way.

After the events, were Ranma to look back on this, I cannot see how he would fail to connect the dots... We will never really know since except the small bit scenes afterward, canon material ends.

 

[MZephyr]

Well she is in on it and it's only after he didn't jump through her hoops that she brought it up. So she's about as close to making him regret it without actually being the one to do whatever Soun planned to do with the water if Ranma didn't go through with it.

It's a weak translation mostly because it makes her more overtly manipulative than she is being but it's not very far off.

I wasn't really trying to argue Akane's innocence or guilt regarding the whole business with the Nanniichuan water. I understand your arguments on the matter (whether or not I agree with them). I was just trying to clarify what seemed to me like a misleading, or at least poor, translation. But I wasn't sure if I might be overlooking some usage of part of the sentence.

 

[nuclear death frog]

I think holding the water hostage was a very slimy act on both Soun and Akane's parts. It's just more evidence of how despicable nearly everyone important in the series is.

 

[MZephyr]

Let me throw this out to change the subject.

The students in class 1-F always refer to their homeroom/English teacher as Hinako-sensei, except when they just say sensei. Even Ranma does so. I would expect them to say Ninomiya-sensei instead, but I suppose it goes along with the general informality of name usage by most of the characters, which I've heard someone say conveys a general tone of immaturity to Japanese readers.

Still, during the chapter where Akane and Hinako are competing to see who can swim across the pool first, it lifted my eyebrows a bit when Hiroshi referred to their teacher as "Hinachan-sensei." Of course, in the VIZ translation he just calls her Hinako like they do all the rest of the time.

 

[nuclear death frog]

Was she in her child form? I haven't read that chapter in ages, so I don't recall it. If she was in her child state, that might explain the double informality on his part.

 

[MZephyr]

I don't have the books with me here, but I believe she was in her child state. Yet even so, she is quite often in her child state, and the students still seem to always say Hinako-sensei. It just struck me as curious.

 

[MZephyr]

Curious. I was just looking at the final chapter of the manga in the original Japanese. In the VIZ translation the title is simply "The Final Chapter", and that's it. In the original Japanese, the kanji ??? appear in small print on both the title page of the chapter and the last page of the previous chapter, and also takes the place of what would have been the "Part 9" in the table of contents. This can in fact be translated as "The Final Chapter", but doesn't seem to be intended to be the title of the chapter - merely taking the place of the chapter number (which doesn't appear on the page). In larger print on the title page (and previous chapter last page), and in the position of the title in the table of contents, is ??????? (actually ?????? in the table of contents). So the title of the chapter in Japanese would appear to be "Ranma and Akane".

I'm not trying to advocate anything about pairings here. I just found it really strange that VIZ used "The Final Chapter" as the title of the chapter, instead of "Ranma and Akane".