Bleach Random Fights You Think Would Work for a Fic

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
#1
This is probably asking, nay begging, for versus debate shenanigans which is all kinds of trouble right from the start. But ultimately my last run down this particular potential canon deviation makes me kind of want to risk it.

Rewrites are probably one of the most common missteps fic writers tend to make in terms of covering arcs already well trodden by canon. Granted usually they give the heroes new bells and whistles to make the fights slightly different or 'fix' things they might not have liked about the original fights, but ultimately it's still going through the same motions via the same battles ad naseum forever. And that's boring as hell since so few tend to try to think outside the box to find potentially more interesting options to work with.

This thread is (hopefully) intended to collect battles between people who you think would make for an interesting alternate option if possible in any potential endeavor you plan on doing. Granted it won't work in every case, trying to avoid Ichigo vs. Byakuya in the SS arc is damned hard considering the sheer amount of framework that entire sequence had setup, so trying to replace it haphazardly just doesn't work nearly as well. However in a lot of other cases, there are other potential options available if you look.

Chad didn't have to fight Shunsui, he just kinda ran into him. He could just as easily have run into Komamura, which makes for a FAR more interesting matchup. Ishida and Renji didn't have to run into Syzael, they could just as easily have gotten caught by Zommari, who in Ishida's case at least could have made for a very interesting scenario given the puppet strings. The four captains sent to Hueco Mundo could have been completely different, or hell the Vizard could have shown up instead. So on and so forth.

Hell, even in Ichigo's case it's easy to shift some of the later stuff depending how you play it since unlike Byakuya who was Rukia's older brother, the character relationships weren't as deep rooted in the story developments with the espada, instead most of what predetermined the fights was circumstance/Aizen. Ichigo could just as easily have been slated to fight Harribel and Yammi instead had things been setup differently. Or Syzael and Nnoitra. Or just one of the espada so we can spreed some of that goodness around since there are only ten, and say Gin. Or Hell, Barragon and Starrk.

Granted in the last case he'd have died horribly without some significant upgrades either way, but it's still on the table at least.

Regardless basic jist of this thread is to present some battles you would have liked to see or thing would work well for fic purposes, hopefully try to present your case a bit if you feel it's needed or what have you. Feel free to go crazy with it, and try to keep things from devolving into power level arguments, though admittedly I'm kinda asking for it with this kind of topic. :sweat2:

Some key concepts I've brought up before to help frame the point of this thread. Completely out of context admittedly but it should give a basic idea of what can be brought up:

You want epic, why not shake things up a bit. Instead of giving us the same exact order of Ikkaku->Renji->Kenpachi->Byakuya, how about use different people? Different match ups? Shake the rosters up a bit, plan ahead so you can build it up properly at least. You can do a lot as long as you loosen the shackles you're ultimately strangling yourself with. You have at least 7 viable captain levels to use with varying degrees of possibilities for a completely different sequence of events or possible battle scenarios. Why not go for one of them.

Ichigo's a massive powerhouse and clearly an interesting specimen, why not have a runin with Mayuri. Sure, that takes Ishida's fight, but you can just as easily have him take on someone else (Quincy puppet strings spread through an area for example make an intriguing potential counter to something that takes away all your senses, ala Tousen's bankai).

Ichigo's wrecking shit, and there's someone investigating the events that are going on, the rascally Ryouka being prime targets, why not have a showdown with ol' Captain Shota.

Bitches be breaking rules, Yamamoto no like this. While Yamamoto would kick his ass seven ways to Sunday, Yamamoto's Dog Komamura would have a few things to say about this. All sorts of fun along the lines of the Kenpachi fight, only with a bit more to bring to the table, could be had facing that guy.

Ichigo's being a miscreant and drawing attention to the wrong places. Aizen Xanatos speed chesses his plans in order to draw Ichigo away from where he doesn't want shit to be seen, using his ol' favorite treacherous agent Gin.
Just throwing a few potential ideas out there. Hell, in one potential idea I had a while back, I did pretty much this, take the canon events and characters, goddamn equalize them so that the entire home team is formidable, beefed up goddamn Kon, brought down some Kanonji epic and set them loose on SS. Kon Vs. Mayuri, Chad vs. Kenpachi, Ishida vs. Gin, Ichigo vs. First Use Bankai Renji, the works. All that purely to add interesting alterations and potentially fun fighting mechanics to the table. Granted in a few cases I had to significantly beef up a few with some lesser battles along the way, and had a few losses to inter-space it, particularly Kanonji vs. Kyoraku but the idea was to have fun and let lose. Give yourself some room to breathe and you'll be surprised what you'll be allowed to do within the actual structure of cannon.
Hell, another idea I had was a small rewrite of a simple scene to spin off into big changes into the arrancar arc. Remember that bit where Rukia's all like "We cannot follow that order." when ordered by Yamamoto to ignore Orihime and go back. Dude sends Byakuya and Kenpachi to take them all in. Well let's "We cannot follow that order." the hell up in there. Ichigo's right there, he could take at least one of the two, Renji's there too and would easily be able to hold his own against Kenpachi if he kept his distance. And hell if Matsumoto's attached enough to Orihime to be annoying about it, Hitsugaya might just have to be drawn into that shit, after a considerable amount of convincing/whining. They got that shit. Arrancar arc starts off beefed the hell up with the Hitsugaya rescue squad now, and Hitsugaya starts off miserable because Matsumoto roped him into all kinds of bullshit this time, and now he's probably lost his job and she isn't appropriately sorry about it. It's win win.

Cut off the rails, theorize potential new ground you might want to explore, find out if there's ways to make it happen without drastically screwing things up, iron out any potential kinks that arise, then roll with it. Not that hard if you leave yourself open to new potential scenarios. If ultimately what you end up with is not going to be all that different from the original product, there's little point in rehashing it.
I had a rewrite of SS myself where Chad ended up facing Kenpachi near the end and managed to progress his powers purely because the fight awakened the age old blood feud between hollows and shinigami. However Komamura might make a more interesting opponent, not just because of the whole big guy thing, but their ideals and emphasis on loyalty is very similar as well. And he's fluffy so Chad would be happy about it too.

I'm actually stunned the sheer amount of synergy the two have hasn't been exploited in canon. :huh:
Sadly Ishida and Mayuri is kinda set in stone, the rewrite I had managed to circumvent it via bring Kon along instead, who ALSO would have beef with the guy. That was a fun little bitty there. Lightning Tatsuki might have an edge against Hitsugaya depending how she develops, though his subplot at this point probably takes him off the front lines unless he tries directly investigating the group. The rest probably should avoid any captain fights if only because I'm not sure they could reasonably take any without some serious shenanigans.

Well there's always Mayuri, but like I said him and Ishida is set in stone. I suppose someone with really good sonar capabilities could take Tousen? Which given our list of who gets what skills... Orihime with that ocean thing from Kekkaishi? Actually that could be very interesting now that I think about it, get one of the fairies to touch the sword and it grants all of them their senses back perhaps? Only problem with him is that nasty shikai tech that knocks you out.

Gin too if he keeps purely to Shikai, an good portal could screw him over even in bankai actually, and drawing the blade away with attraction or repulsion would also prove effective. Actually if the blade also conducts electricity Tatsuki too could handle that. Maybe a three on one fight where they mostly survive due to Gin playing, good synergy, and his shikai being garbage. :hmm:

Mostly though the entire lot of the Vice Captains are completely open for utilization, so everyone could take one of those guys at least. Chad vs. Kira would be quite interesting, him beasting through even with his shield weighed down would be nice.

I spend way too much time thinking of lulzy matchups. :mellow:
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
#2
Chad and Komamura would have been a pretty amazing fight if Komamura tried to reason with Chad first and ask him to stand down like Shunsui did, only to press harder with questions when Chad says he has to get past him, eventually getting into a battle.

A real battle between Komamura and Tousen would also be nice.

Let's see...

A proper fight between Ryuken and any of the Espada. Like I said in the other topic, Ryuken's primary motivation is making a career. He can't exactly do that if Karakura Town gets sacrificed to make a King's Key.

Ichigo vs. Ukitake in the Soul Society arc simply for the whole "He looks like Kaien" thing.

Ichigo vs. Sasakibe earlier on in Soul Society as well, and using Sasakibe as based on his later manga appearance with having bankai for at least a thousand years instead of just 'LOLNO' fist-to-face taking him out. Get old man Yama involved earlier if his lieutenant has to take out his shikai or even bankai

Gin vs. Toushiro

Nel vs. Harribel, a battle of former 3rd versus current 3rd. I assume Nel was weak to an extent against Nnoitra because she had just recovered her powers, so give her her full powers for use against Harribel.

Yachiru vs. Lilynette for the lulz
 

Knyght

The Collector
#3
Ichigo vs Ukitake û YouÆve got the fact that Ichigo looks like Kaien which causes some conflict from UkitakeÆs perspective. Sogyo no KotowariÆs power serves as a good counter for Zangetsu so itÆd be a tough fight for Ichigo and heÆd have to show off some strategic thinking to win this. UkitakeÆs also the only one of the elder captains that Ichigo would stand a chance against, partly because of the Kaien thing and partly because of his illness.

Ichigo vs Soifon û This would be a good chance to show off IchigoÆs martial arts for once instead of pure swordsmanship and they both have relations to Yoruichi. His bankai would allow him to keep up with Soifon though IÆm not sure if heÆd be faster. And Shunko would ensure sheÆs still a physical match for him even then.

Ichigo vs Toushirou û This would be epic. IÆve been bitching recently about Hitsugaya showing up where he shouldnÆt but itÆs disappointed that he never interact with Ichigo as much as he should have during the manga; going from an antagonist to a bro. TheyÆre both child geniuses with similar personalities and are relatively immature, power-wise. And youÆve got some nice symbolism with the ôheavenlyö aspects of their powers.

Ichigo and Toushirou vs Stark or Ulquiorra û Again, epic.

Ishida vs Soifon û The formerÆs pretty versatile and the latterÆs plenty ruthless. ItÆd mostly be a battle of trying to close/maintain the distance between them as they each go for the kill. SoifonÆs likely to mock his Quincy heritage too which would put her on IshidaÆs shit list.

Orihime vs Barragan û Orihime would definitely need beefing up for this to work but IÆd be happy to see a battle between two God-like powers.

Unohana vs Anyone û No explanation needed.

Ichigo/Ishida/Chad/Orihime vs Yamamoto û The whole group would need beefing up just to survive being in his proximity but itÆd be an awesome teamwork-based battle.

Ikkaku vs Nnoitra û IÆm not sure why I didnÆt think of this before. Two lance wielders which similar bloodthirsty personalities, IkkakuÆs bankai is well-suited to take on NnoitraÆs Hierro. ItÆs a pretty ideal battle for them that would likely end in IkkakuÆs death or a mutual kill. I imagine that theyÆd both be happy to die like this.

Kenpachi vs Stark û Both of them æraisingÆ a kid and Stark would be an opponent where Kenpachi wouldnÆt be able to simply hack and slash his way to victory.

Hitsugaya vs Barragan û Because Hitsugaya might be one of the few Shinigami who can get past that game-breaking Respira.

Komamura vs Yammy û Clash of the titans.

Gin vs Soifon û Clash of the assassins.

Urahara vs Mayuri û Clash of the scientists.

Chad vs Jackie û We have a close combat fight between a fist user and a foot user. He probably pisses off Jackie by not attacking first since I donÆt think heÆs someone to go for the first strike against a woman. WeÆll also get to see that Chad is genuinely angry about what happened with Ichigo; he joined Xcution because he thought they could restore IchigoÆs power but they planned to steal it himself. The fact that JackieÆs fighting using IchigoÆs stolen power is just icing on the cake. The aftermath is probably the same as what happened with Renji in canon i.e. no killing (despite being pissed) leading to self-sacrifice.

Orihime vs Riruka û RirukaÆs likely feeling guilty over the whole business especially with how betrayed and angry Orihime would feel over the whole business. Orihime can block and reject anything the fullbringer throws at her, including the stranger abilities.

Yoruichi vs Grimmjow û Probably the only Espada whoÆd provide Yoruichi with an ideal fight. YouÆve got the cat symbolism, the fact that YoruichiÆs practically royalty and Grimmjow thinks he is and theyÆre both hand-to-hand fighters.

Ichigo vs Chojiro - This would probably involve the lieutenant keeping his distance with lightning bolts because he's a few centuries out of shape. The speed of Ichigo's bankai and a bunch of lightning bolts which would be pretty awesome to see. Perhaps Ichigo's shows some intelligence by using his sword as a lightning rod to provide an opening.

Hitsugaya vs Chojiro - Rather than an actual fight, it'd be interesting for Hitsugaya to seek training from Chojiro after the SS arc to help improve his abilities.

EDIT: Renji vs Ayon - Chimera vs Chimera.
 

Estrecca

Well-Known Member
#4
Dordoni vs Hitsugaya - A limiter could be thrown in to justify an even or short-of-even fight. Mostly I think that this would work, because of Dordoni being a mildly decent/honorable sort in comparison to the other Arrancar, him realizing that Aizen really does not give a shit about the Espada or anyone else, his wind Resurreccion powers (which could perhaps be argued to counter some of Hyorinmaru's powers, like the snowfall of doom) and his calling anyone younger than himself "kid, baby, young whippersnapper" and such in Spanish.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
#5
So far so good, some pretty nice ideas already on the table. Especially like Ikkaku vs. Nnoitra and getting the privaron some extra love. :snigger:

Couple more to put on the table:


Ishida vs. Hitsugaya and Chad/Cat Yoruichi vs. Soifon: This is actually purely based on one of the Bleach openings for the SS arc, which showed very brief snippets of these fights. The former at least has some interesting ways to spin it given the versatility of the two combatants, and depending how it concludes could lead to both teaming up to try and figure out what is going on in the SS arc based on their two perspectives. Hitsugaya being aware that Urahara is a factor thanks to Ishida's input could lead to some key clues and tighten that aspect of the arc that much more. Though admittedly it's kinda hard to alter the mystery plot to be better when everyone and their mom knows the conclusion, unless you outright change it.

The other though is harder to spin. Soifon murders Chad if she even remotely gets serious, but as shown against Kiyone Soifon is prone to play if the opponent is much weaker than her, Christ she gave that Tiger Fraccion a spin purely for the dumbest reason possible. And if like the snippet Yoruichi manages to somehow break Soifon's blade as she tries to stab Chad with it, Shikai/Bankai might be out of the question. Both fights given the snippets looked like they could shape up to something interesting if you played your cards right. Not sure what Chad does here other than be a punching bag actually without something like La Muralla to hold her in reach but that sequence looked awesome at least.


Renji vs. Ikkaku: Another fight we already have an anime snippet for, only this time from a game opening. Needless to say the sight of both their bankai clashing was pretty awesome. :sisi:


Actually now that I think about it, quite a few of those game openings led to some pretty interesting looking fights.

Like that small snippet of Kenpachi Vs. Byakuya vs. Hitsugaya, which then forced them to unite against Yamamoto because he was going shikai on their asses.

They're totally screwed but it was a damn cool image at least.
 

Estrecca

Well-Known Member
#6
So... fights that I actually intended to write about in that fic I started zeons ago about an Arrancar invasion of Seireitei.

Aaroniero vs Ukitake - Starts with Aaroniero using a Kaien bluff to make Ukitake drop his guard, followed by destroying Sogyo no Kotowari with Metastacia's zanpakuto destroying power and triggering one of Ukitake's episodes with one of his random hollow powers (poisonous spores or some such). Cue Aaroniero gloating about how he is gonna eat Ukitake and use his appeareance and powers to be uberer than uber.

Things would have ended with Ukitake freezing Aaroniero with an overpowered Sai, KOing him with one punch and then purifying him with Nejibana (assumed to retain an active zanpakuto spirit willing/eager to work with Ukitake to avenge Kaien).

Mayuri vs Stark - Stark finds Mayuri brutalizing Nemu. He is able to determine through super-senses that the connection between Nemu and Mayuri is not completely unlike that between himself and Lilinette, so he inquires about Clownface's reasons to treat his female clone so.

Seeing that the answers don't satisfy Stark entirely and that Clownface actually tries to attack him, Stark pricks his finger with the central fang of his mask fragment and shows Mayuri something new, in which new is Gran Rey Cero, Stark edition.

Nnoitra vs Soifon - Both have insect themes, both are built around diametrically opposed character designs and Nnoitra being a chauvinist dick could also be used for this.

Would essentially involve Soifon hitting him one and a half zillion times with her shikai, but totally failing to penetrate Nnoitra's Hierro and him being frustrated out of his mind by his total failure to catch her. It would end with Soifon reluctantly going bankai and taking a shot at a Nnoitra who stands still with arms outstretched to mock her (and to test himself).

Kyoraku vs Barragan - Didn't have too clear an idea about this one, but it would essentially have been built around the idea that a lot of legends involve the heros playing games with Death. Both Kyoraku's shikai and Barragan have obvious connections with this and I thought (and still think) that if written properly could be actually pretty interesting.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
#7
Barragon's generally hard to deal with because his ability is very close to absolute. Bar obviously the actual way he was taken out, it's generally going to be exceedingly arguable what will and won't work against his Respiera. The real issue though is that you can't be hit even once or the damage spreads massively, which always is going to make it hard to win.

There are a few skillsets that you can argue would work, Spamming in general for one since there is a limit to how much it can take. Then there's also elements like Ice/Water which have a very reasonable chance of being able to hold out against the ability, since time alone won't really affect that. But ultimately anything that can be thrown at him depends on how you interpret his powers. As easily as ice and water could be immune, it could just as easily cause them to separate into hydrogen and oxygen atoms so they can't be refrozen into liquid form or what have you.

Honestly I'm still baffled as to how Aizen managed to take control over that guy. Resipera is omnidirectional, Aizen can't get close to the guy without rotting even with him under KS. So long as he constantly keeps it active, which we saw he can do Aizen has nothing that will touch him till the Orb fusion kicks in. And even then that's a hard sell. :huh:

Also to take my mind off Barragon shenanigans, that proposed Mayuri vs. Starrk greatly amuses me. Starrk's a very hard guy to get riled up to actually fight seriously, which makes it so crazy that even while barely trying he could handle so many captains at once, not using bankai though they may have been. Actually getting him worked up though... That would be quite scary.

I actually considered just how to go about it too... And settled on Barragon to be the one who manages it, to get the Fallen King to fight the one who Aizen deemed stronger than him if nothing else. It wouldn't take much either. One careless comment from Starrk Barragon takes offense to, and perhaps he attempts to subtly take out Lilynette with one of his fraccion, maybe not aware of the connection between the two. Only that paltry attempt is stopped with prejudice, and lazy though he may be, Starrk's smart enough to know what really went down.

And is going to ensure such a mistake is never made again. Primera vs. Segunda get. A fight that very easily could destroy the entirety of Las Noches with the sheer spam/rotting to go down. :ph43r:
 

Knyght

The Collector
#8
Hmm, Chojiro vs Halibel - I've already got Hitsugaya running around in HM in my alternate arrancar arc so this would be an ideal match-up. Halibel wants to cut down Yamamoto for taking out her fraccion so Chojiro steps up like the bro he is 'cause she isn't worthy of his captain's blade. It'd still be an elemental fight but with less boring back-and-forth and Chojiro would actually become relevant.

Komamura vs Tres Bestia - Interesting image of the beast-like characters going after one another and seeing Komamura's bankai against Ayon could be rather interesting. There's a certain symbolism there with Tengen the samurai warrior fighting against the embodiment of hollow's mindless instinct, imo.

EDIT: Komamura & Kensei vs Tousen - Because despite it being glossed over in canon, Kensei's suffered a direct betrayal from a subordinate who he wasn't even suspicious of (unlike Shinji). And this way Komamura wouldn't be completely outmatched when facing Tousen's hollowfication.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
#9
I would also like to see a real Ichigo vs. Shinji match-up, solely due to Shinji's Shikai. I could imagine Shinji summoning it and inversing all of Ichigo's senses...only for Ichigo to laugh it off and manage to hit him and revealing that his own inner world is already screwed up so he's used to this thing.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
#10
Nah, likely wouldn't work. Thing with Shinji's shikai is that it doesn't just switch the one direction, it reverses practically anything, and then Shinji can switch it at will. Ichigo might be used to the buildings being sideways, but he's not used to the direction the person's sword is swinging to be from the opposite direction at an inverted height from behind as compared to what he's currently seeing.

Though that said, Shinji's ability while tricky likely isn't absolute either. The main weakness is that everything is inverted 180 degrees, meaning in terms of his orientation from yourself, he's only ever going to be coming from one of two directions.

Trying to take Shinji on in swordplay is ludicrous with Sakenade, even with two swords trying to block both ways you're likely going to get the proper angle wrong for a block because of all the extraneous directions he can switch at will. There's no real way to smart yourself out of that since he can choose any direction to reverse on a dime so subtly in the middle of a fight you don't notice, which means its likely out of reach even for Urahara (And Aizen no matter how much Kubo wants to wank him). In fact the more skilled you are at fighting the worse it's going to affect you.

But, a person with a very specific skillset can handle it. All you need to be able to do is fire an attack Shinji cannot take head on without decent damage or trying to dodge at the very least, in two directions 180 degrees from each other. Starrk for example automatically has the ultimate counter to Sakenade by being able to instantly fire in two directions at once. :snigger:
 

Knyght

The Collector
#11
I figured Aizen used KS on himself to invert his own senses, restoring them to normality and then accounted for any remaining differences himself. Then he just lied about it so no-one would realise he was already using KS.

I'm wondering if Sakanada would be more or less effective on Tousen. People rely on sight more than any other sense which isn't something he'd have a problem with but Tousen's spiritual sense would get inverted as well so it would balance out.
 

warai_kitsune

Well-Known Member
#12
Technically, Toushiro might be able to beat Barragan's Respira, if only because his bankai is cold-based. The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system always increases; I'm probably getting this wrong (or at least not 100% right), but that basically means that on a long enough timeline, everything is going to get colder and colder and eventually die. I have no idea if this would actually work with Toshiro's power set, but that at least makes it plausible that if Barragan tried to age his ice attacks (and Toshiro took the trouble to chill the air around them), they'd just get even colder.

A fight that's relatively close to canon that I would have liked to have seen would have been Toshiro and Soifon switching opponents during the fake Karakura arc; Toshiro because he thinks he has a loophole around Barragan's powers, and Soifon because her style of fighting is pretty much perfect for dealing with someone who relies on directional area-of-effect attacks.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#13
Ichigo vs The Lieutenants - Something that came to mind after remembering Kenpachi saying that Ichigo could probably stomp any lieutenant that came his way when he met. I thought it'd be interesting to see Ichigo fight against all the lieutenants (excluding Renji) together, where they've got the numerical advantage and tech variety whilst he's got pure specs and raw power.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#14
A number of then, Nanao in particular, would fall once he got serious. We know that the less powerful cannot deal with spiritual weight, which comes out naturally in any fight. So you'd need to figure who could deal with that first.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
#15
I have doubts, the whole spirtual power crushes you thing is something that Ichigo's never been able to do. Ever. Not even with Mugestu, and even transcendants could use that power to make things disintegrate while getting close. They might get tossed aside sure with little more than a shrug, but Ichigo's literally never been able to spiritually crush anyone like Yamamoto or Aizen, likely due to lack of control.

Regardless such a fight would likely fall down to when it happens. Pre-Bankai Ichigo, barring plot, loses though. We have at least three people here skilled in shunpo, Matsumoto's super strength and rather difficult to deal with Shikai, Kira's Shikai in general, ranged shikai users as well as kido, and Ichigo can't fall back on speed or Getsuuga since he lacks the former and can't pull out the later reliably.

With shunpo and Getsuuga though? Much better odds and likely a crushing victory unless Kira and/or binding kido surprises him. As normal though he's just a superior swordsman who can't close the distance due to shunpo and is now being peppered with nasty ranged attacks from multiple sides, and going close combat against Kira is suicide unless he manages to break his sword damn fast.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#16
It's not something he consciously tries to do, no, and without having total control of his power he can't make someone like Grimmjow piss himself like Aizen can (despite probably having enough power to do so). But Ichigo typically fights opponents who are capable of handling his reiatsu since they're his equal or superior. This wouldn't be the case for at least some of the lieutenants since, as zeebee1 said, Ichigo's reiatsu would naturally rise when he's fighting and he could end up crushing the weaker souls without consciously trying to do so.

And to be fair, post-Jinzen Ichigo's power was so immense that the only way anyone (including Aizen) could have detected is if he lowered it to their level. Reducing his power output was something he struggled with even when he was around the level of a 3rd/2nd seat, so doing it then would likely be impossible. I don't doubt that if he's gotten close to his friends they probably would have been vaporised and he'd have corroded Matsumoto and Gin if he's tried to touch them.

Anyway, Matsumoto has super strength? Ichigo's isn't exactly physically weak and even before he learned shunpo, he was capable of following Byakuya's movements post-Kenpachi. Not as good as being able to keep up or outspeed them but he wouldn't be blindsided by their shunpo usage.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
#17
Crushing weaker souls? Potentially. Vice Captains, despite the gap between them and captains wouldn't quite be weak enough for him to just be able to do it by accident though. Also Ichigo was carrying a very thoroughly exhausted Isshin who wasn't getting vaporized at all. And keep in mind he was draining himself to keep the walls at bay for roughly two months, so in terms of spiritual power he was pretty much tapped out on that front.

While Isshin might have been a bit more hardy still than your generic powerless human, which admittedly he didn't get close enough to touch to say for sure, he was definitely not going to be able to put up significantly more resistance than Matsumoto and Gin to say the least.

Also Matsumoto's super strength is actually a thing. Granted, probably a bit of a joke in itself, but she's notably been able to casually shrug off physical blows from people much stockier than her while barely trying (Most notable case being blocking a palm thrust from the menos guy with the back of her hand while on the phone) and in turn drag Hitsugaya against his will all over the place. Not a huge thing granted but I like bringing it up from time to time since it amuses me. :snigger:

Also being blindsided by Shunpo isn't really the issue, I do agree he could follow it. Problem is though he cannot match it when it comes to trying to get close, which is a fairly MASSIVE issue when you have no ranged attacks you can reliably pull out. It's that Ichigo can't rely on Getsuuga, and in turn cannot get close to them to attack with any degree of reliability while they can pepper him with ranged attacks, kido, and worse ranged binding kido for those of them that do need to be close to attack.

It's the same reason Ichigo couldn't beat Ishida with any degree of reliability at any point prior to learning bankai, anytime he could almost get close enough to actually attack he could just blitz away from him to get some distance again and continue peppering him with arrows till he can't charge no more. Even them knowing shunpo by itself isn't the biggest problem in itself, it's their capability for a constant barrage of ranged attacks that he can't deal with. Ichigo also couldn't reliably beat Chad for a similar reason prior to bankai, since all Chad would need to do would be keep blasting him away and he really wouldn't be able to get close enough to attack, the scope of his attacks and the knockback would have been too much to deal with when trying to get close enough to strike.

Granted, he could use Getsuuga unconsciously and pull a win out of his ass like he did with renji when he was having similar problems, and Renji didn't even use Shunpo, he just was a vastly superior ranged fighter and could dodge in close quarters. But that's again not something he can rely on and falls down to a plot win rather than a legitimate one, and in this case would maybe take out three of them if he catches them by surprise at an opportune moment which is being rather generous. He's still got about 6 more who may or may not give him the same issue (depending on who he takes out), and granted he could probably have taken at least two or so initially when they didn't know to stay away. But pulling the unreliable Getsuuga card multiple times to resolve the rest would really be pushing it, doubly so since they're now prepared for it.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#18
Crushing them is probably too strong a term anyway. More like he'd be able to overwhelm them but I think he'd only manage that if he was going full-tilt with his reiatsu. And I was gonna say that Isshin could have been unharmed simply because Ichigo never touched his flesh, his body was covered by his uniform. But thinking back, I'm not sure if Ichigo and Aizen could harm the Shinigami via disintegration anyway. There's a time when Gin lost a bit of his arm when Aizen grabbed him (which is what I was basing the idea on) but it's possible that that was a result of his physical strength. And I think Gin touches him for his bankai poison-explosion without harm. So that point's kinda moot anyway.

Now that you've pointed it out, I'm rather amused by how limited he was in comparison to Chad and Ishida. Shame they didn't stick together so the latter could lord it over him. But obviously, NGD, you have forgotten Ichigo's most devastating ranged ability from even before the Getsuga Tensho! Shunpo and Kido are meaningless in the face of such a skill! Fear that which is called...

Deddori Datsu!

 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
#19
Huh. I'm so annoyed that he never uses that technique that I didn't realize fic wise it would be very easy to justify him actually pulling it out, after the Kenpachi fight, if he were pushed into such a corner. If someone had Ichigo win by Mimicing Hichigo when he had no other chance for victory and knew it there I'd freaking eat that shit up. Well played good sir. :huh:
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#20
The move is too flashy to actually work. Ichigo was completely outclassed and he still managed to dodge. You swing a sword in the air for a couple of seconds and then send it in a straight line. Of course he's going to dodge. It's a useless technique unless you just launch it immediately. And that's assuming that the chain can't be broken.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
#21
Depends how you go about it. It's possible to do an overhead spin and just keep rotating for a propeller sort of attack, combine it within melee strikes for surprise assaults and just generally use it like this:



Granted though if the cloth does get cut it'd screw you over, but it gives him some much needed range against this set of opponents and since that's the main deciding factor here (As he outclasses them in everything but instant movement and viable ranged attacks, and I suppose Hax given Kira) that could easily be argued to be his one trump card for victory.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#22
That's not a technique. That's an entire fighting style.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
#23
Indeed. All the more reason I'm annoyed it never came up again. :sweat2:
 

Knyght

The Collector
#24
And if the strength difference is significant enough, Ichigo could sling it around fast enough that the obviousness of the move wouldn't be much of hindrance. One minute they watching him swinging his sword by the cloth, next thing they know there's a sword in their gut. Ichigo not having much trouble with his copy using it wouldn't necessarily translate to the lieutenants being able to do the same.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#25
The technique itself is nearly worthless. if Ichigo has enough force to swing it fast enough that it can't be dodged then he has more than enough force and speed to do significant damage to his target. Now if he was not allowed to use conventional ranged attacks but he needed to use a ranged attack it could be useful.
 
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