Ranma ½ Ranma/Dresden Files

[spooky316]

Since we were cluttering the "Crossovers You'd Like to See" topic, I decided to move all the Ranma/Dresden stuff over here:

Not too sure if it has been mentioned before, but I would like to see a Dresden Files/Ranma cross or fusion.? The only inspiration I ever had for such a fusion though involves an older Ranma who has one of the Swords of the Cross, probably Fidelacchius, and a run-in with a Denarian (most likely Nabiki as she would enjoy the benefits of working with them).? After all, if she gets in over her head and the Order of the Blackened Denarius try to have her killed, she wouldn't hesitate to try and convince Ranma to 'help' her.? And I don't see him handing the coins he takes off to be guarded somewhere, let alone a full believer in the Sword, as he would see it as someone else trying to dictate terms for his life.

Not too sure if it has been mentioned before, but I would like to see a Dresden Files/Ranma cross or fusion. The only inspiration I ever had for such a fusion though involves an older Ranma who has one of the Swords of the Cross, probably Fidelacchius, and a run-in with a Denarian (most likely Nabiki as she would enjoy the benefits of working with them). After all, if she gets in over her head and the Order of the Blackened Denarius try to have her killed, she wouldn't hesitate to try and convince Ranma to 'help' her. And I don't see him handing the coins he takes off to be guarded somewhere, let alone a full believer in the Sword, as he would see it as someone else trying to dictate terms for his life.

Ranma would do really bad things to everyone in the Dresdenverse. Though seeing as Fidelacchius is a katana, I'd prefer to see him with Esperacchius.
The problem with Ranma as a Knight is that the Knights must have Faith. In something.

Honestly, Ranma would more likely fall to a Denarius who tempted him. But no one wants to see that.

Since it's not like he'd be helpless in the Dresdenverse (I'd like to point out that despite him being creepy, and apparently some other stuff, Kincaid does just fine with human firearms... and Ranma's probably physically superior to him), I'd much rather see him as is, getting tangled up with the White Court or a Fae Court. Or heck, the military arm of The Venatori Umbrorum.

Problem with the fae courts is that they may end up being worse than Shampoo and Kuno combined.

And Ranma does have faith in something: himself.

If I recall correctly (which I'm not entirely sure I do), wasn't ki listed as one of the many names for magic in one of the earlier Dresden Files books? In which case, though I doubt he'd be a wizard, Ranma and probably most of the Nerima gang would be some variety of magic-user. Though, I have to wonder if the White Council might not be coming down hard on them if they ever find out about half the stuff that goes on there...I'm pretty sure at least some of the stuff gets pretty damn close to breaking, if not outright ignoring the Seven Laws of Magic.

I didn't like Realms much because Ranma spent most of his time both out of his mind, female, and then they pulled the 'broken into three personas' nonsense...frankly, I was getting kind of fed up with the whole thing. I wanted to see some time with Ranma actually...y'know, being Ranma. <_<

Ranma would do really bad things to everyone in the Dresdenverse. Though seeing as Fidelacchius is a katana, I'd prefer to see him with Esperacchius.
The problem with Ranma as a Knight is that the Knights must have Faith. In something.

Honestly, Ranma would more likely fall to a Denarius who tempted him. But no one wants to see that.

Since it's not like he'd be helpless in the Dresdenverse (I'd like to point out that despite him being creepy, and apparently some other stuff, Kincaid does just fine with human firearms... and Ranma's probably physically superior to him), I'd much rather see him as is, getting tangled up with the White Court or a Fae Court. Or heck, the military arm of The Venatori Umbrorum.

If you wanna get technical, I believe the Addventure Dresdenverse Senshi has Ranma in it. I didn't like it very much though.

First of all, I'd want to see a Denarian!Ranma. He doesn't have to go completely evil, just look at Shezza's stories.

Second, I'd like to contest Ranma being physically superior to Kincaid. It's been stated that Kincaid's a hundreds-of-years-old half demon (nicknamed the Hound of Hell), who was the right hand man of Vlad Dracul (who was also a half demon, and worse than his son Dracula). Kincaid's true appearance, as seen with Wizard's Sight, is "an enormous horned, bat-winged entity carrying a corpse (his appearance on the outside) chained to him."

Also, if he got tangled up with either Sidhe Court, it's practically game over. They'd offer him a deal to get rid of his curse and he'd accept it without thinking, which leads to him being in their debt. Once in debt to the fae, I doubt he'd ever get out. Take a look at Elaine, and hell, on a smaller level Harry himself.

EDIT: I just thought of a story idea. After Dresden book 4, Ranma makes a deal with Mab to cure his curse, and in return he becomes the Winter Knight.

Don't forget that the Fae refer to sex as sporting, so if they propositioned Ranma for sport, he'd assume they meant sports, and get tied in that way. Ranma may not be the brightest, but it is always what he doesn't know that he thinks he does that gets him.

Also something to be mentioned, if Ranma did try to break his word with a Sidhe he'd lose some of his power. I'd take that to mean that his ki reserves would lower substantially.

EDIT:? I just thought of a story idea.? After Dresden book 4, Ranma makes a deal with Mab to cure his curse, and in return he becomes the Winter Knight.

Personally, I think Mab'd rather have Harry as the WK. However, they probably DO need someone to hold the position until she can finally finagle Harry into the role...

As I recall...Wizard Sight doesn't show someone's true form, just their true nature.

For wizards like me, that kind of eye contact is even more intense, and even more dangerous. Looking into someone's eyes shows me what they are. I see it in a light of elemental truth so clear and bright that it burns it into my head forever. I see the core of who and what they are during a soulgaze, and they see me in the same way. There's nothing hidden, no possibility of deception. I don't see absolutely every thought or memory that passes through their head-but I do get to see the naked, emotional heart of who and what they are. It isn't a precise research technique, but it would tell me if Thomas was playing it straight.

Or, more specifically...

The phenomenon referred to as a soulgaze is a fairly mysterious thing. No one's ever been able to get a really good grasp on exactly how it works. The best descriptions of it have always been more poetical than anything else.

The eyes are the windows of the soul.

Lock eyes with a wizard and the essence of who and what you are is laid bare. It is perceived in different ways by every individual. Ramirez had once told me that he heard it as a kind of musical theme that accompanied the person he was gazing upon. Others looked on a soul in a series of frozen images. My interpretation of a soulgaze was, perhaps inevitably, one of the most random and confusing I'd ever heard about. I see the other person in symbol and metaphor, sometimes in panorama and surround sound, sometimes in misty translucence and haunting whispers.

Whoever was gazed upon got a good look back. Whatever universal powers governed that kind of thing evidently decided that the soul's windows don't come in an optional issue of one-way mirrored glass. You saw them. They saw you, with the same kind of searing permanence.

For me, meeting someone's eyes is always risky. Every human being on earth knows what I'm talking about. Try it. Walk up to someone, without speaking, and look them in the eyes. There's a certain amount of leeway for a second, or two, or three. And then there's a distinct sensation of sudden contact, of intimacy. That's when regular folks normally cough and look away. Wizards, though, get the full ride of a soulgaze.

So, that doesn't mean Kincaid's necessarily demonic in origin, just that his true self is, at least metaphorically, a monster. Kincaid isn't completely human, that's true, but I'm not entirely certain as to what, exactly, the other half is.

"He's not human?"

Ebenezar shook his head.

"Then what is he?"

"There are people walking around who carry the blood of the Nevernever in them. Changelings, for one, those who are half-Sidhe. The faeries aren't the only ones who can breed with humanity, though, and the scions of such unions can have a lot of power. Their offspring are usually malformed. Freakish. Often insane. But sometimes the child looks human."

"Like Kincaid."

Ebenzar nodded. "He's older than I am. When I met him, I still had hair and he had been serving the creature for centuries."

"What creature?" I asked.

"The creature," Ebenezar said. "Another half mortal like Kincaid. Vlad Drakul."

I blinked. "Vlad Tepesh? Dracula?"

Ebenezar shook his head. "Dracula was the son of Drakul, and pretty pale and skinny by comparison. Went to the Black Court as a kind of teenage rebellion. The original creature is...welll. Formidable. Dangerous. Cruel. And Kincaid was his right arm for centuries. He was known as the Hound of Hell. Or just the Hellhound."

"And he's afraid of you," I said, my voice bitter. "Blackstaff McCoy. I guess that's your working name."

Also...

The energy from magic comes from a lot of places. It can come from a special place (usually some spectacular natural site, like Mount St. Helens, or Old Faithful), from a focus of some kind (like Stonehenge is, on a large scale), or from inside of people. The best magic comes from the inside. Sometimes it's just pure mental effort, raw willpower. Sometimes it's emotions and feelings. All of them are viable tinder to be used for the proverbial fire.

So, I'd be willing to guess that ki is a crude form of evocation, personally. :mellow:

I took deep breaths, struggling to see clear of the anger, the hate, the deep lust that burned within me for vengeance and retribution. That wasn't what magic was for. That wasn't what magic did. Magic came from life itself, from the interaction of nature and the elements, from the energy of all living beings, and especially of people. A man's magic demonstrates what sort of person he is, what is held most deeply inside of him. There is no truer gauge of a man's character than the way in which he employs his strength, his power.

Jusenkyo's kind of tricky given the Dresdenverse, though, since...

"There's another version of a werewolf-when someone else uses magic to change you into a wolf."

I glanced up at him. "Transmogrification? That's illegal, Bob. It's one of the Laws of Magic. If you transform someone into an animal, it destroys their personality. You can't transform someone else without wiping out their mind. It's practically murder."

"Yeah. Neat, huh? But actually, most personalities can survive the transformation. For a little while at least. Really strong wills might manage to keep their human memories and personality locked away for several years. But sooner or later, they're irretrievably gone, and you're left with nothing but a wolf."

So, I'm pretty sure Jusenkyo spirits or something like them would have to be canon, given that...

"The most common way, back in France, was to make a deal with a demon or a devil or a powerful sorcerer. You get a wolf-hide belt, put it on, say the magic words, and whammy, you're a wolf. A Hexenwolf."

"Isn't that just like the first kind?"

"No, not at all. You don't use your own magic to become a wolf. You use someone else's."

I frowned. "Isn't that the second kind, then?"

"Stop being obtuse," Bob chided me. "It's different because you're employing a talisman. Sometimes it's a ring or amulet, but usually it's a belt. The talisman provides an anchor for a spirit of bestial rage. Nasty thing from the bad side of the Nevernever. That spirit wraps around a human personality to keep it from being destroyed."

"A kind of insulation," I said.

"Exactly. It leaves you with your own intellect and reason, but the spirit handles everything else."

I frowned. "Sounds a little easy."

"Oh, sure," Bob said. "It's really easy. And when you use a talisman to turn into a wolf, you lose all of your human inhibitions and so on, and just run on your unconscious desires, with the talisman-spirit in charge of the way the body moves. It's really efficient. A huge wolf with human-level intelligence and animal-level ferocity."

I eyed Bob, and gathered up the other ingredients for the stimulant potion: a morning donut, for taste; a cock's crow, for hearing; fresh soap, for smell; bits of a washcloth, for touch; and a beam of dawn sunshine for sight; a to-do list, for the mind; and a bit of bright, cheerful music, for the spirit; and the potion was simmering along nicely.

Bob said nothing while I added the ingredients, and when I was finished I said, "Most people don't have the strength to control a spirit like that, I'd think. It would influence their actions. Maybe even control them. Suppress their conscience."

"Yeah. So?"

"So it sounds more like you'd be creating a monster."

"It's effective," Bob said. "I don't know about the good or the evil of the thing. That's something that only you mortals worry about."

Though, I suppose it's vaguely possible it's related to the first variety discussed...

"The classic werewolf," Bob said, "is simply a human being who uses magic to shift himself into a wolf."

"Magic? Like a wizard?"

"No," Bob said. "Well. Sort of. He's like a wizard who only knows how to cast the one spell, the one to turn him into a wolf, and knows how to get back out of it again. Most people who learn to be werewolves aren't very good at it for a while, because they keep all of their own humanity."

"What do you mean?"

"Well," Bob said, "they can reshape themselves into the form of a wolf, but it's pretty much just topology. They rearrange their physical body, but their mind remains the same. They can think and reason, and their personality doesn't change-but they don't have a wolf's instincts or reflexes. They're used to being sight-oriented bipeds, not smell-oriented quadrupeds. They would have to learn everything from scratch."

"Why would someone do something like that?" I said. "Just learn to turn into a wolf, I mean."

"You've never been a peasant in medieval France, Harry," Bob said. "Life was hard for those people. Never enough food, shelter, medicine. If you could give yourself a fur coat and the ability to go out and hunt your own meat, you would have jumped at the chance, too."

...but the whole bit about lacking instincts and reflexes doesn't really make sense, given Genma's rapid adaptation, unless something else is involved.

Ranma becoming the Winter Knight could be interesting...

As I recall...Wizard Sight doesn't show someone's true form, just their true nature.

Ah, my mistake. For some reason I thought that if you weren't human, it showed your true appearance.

So, I'd be willing to guess that ki is a crude form of evocation, personally.

That'd be interesting. So ki would be the power that is normally channelled into an elemental attack.

Jusenkyo's kind of tricky given the Dresdenverse, though

The Jusenkyo transformations appear to be most similar to the original werewolves/werecreatures, like Billy and the Alphas, since both retain their human thoughts and instincts. However, if the White Council ever found out who created Jusenkyo, he/she'd soon be missing a head.

Plus, the idea of ki-users being some sort of magic-user, frankly, makes more sense to me than the old 'there was ki all along that absolutely no one, not even that badass Japanese Knight, has ever brought up or utilized'. Cause, honestly, if anyone would have known how to use ki, I would have expected it to have been Shiro. If it's a form of magic, on the other hand...plus, lesser magic-users that aren't quite wizards are perfectly canonical in the Dresdenverse, since wizards are pretty much the elite...while Ranma and company, while some might have the potential to be wizards (though, I'd view that as being debatable), wouldn't have the training for it.

Of course, that means the White Council has jurisdiction over them...and given some of the things the Amazons have pulled (particularly that magical mushroom that made the user perform a certain action when exposed to a certain stimulus)...they might be in trouble.

And yeah, the first kind of makes sense, it's the whole instinctual thing that's the issue...all of them know how to use their cursed bodies right from the get-go. The spirit thing would be pretty dark, though...though, dark is somewhat canon for the Dresdenverse. Plus, if it did start preying on their sanity, Ranma'd have an even better reason than the obvious to want to get rid of it...as well as the rest of the cast. Pantyhose Taro, though, should already have become a fiend without a conscience...oh wait...

First of all, I'd want to see a Denarian!Ranma.? He doesn't have to go completely evil, just look at Shezza's stories.

Second, I'd like to contest Ranma being physically superior to Kincaid.? It's been stated that Kincaid's a hundreds-of-years-old half demon (nicknamed the Hound of Hell), who was the right hand man of Vlad Dracul (who was also a half demon, and worse than his son Dracula).? Kincaid's true appearance, as seen with Wizard's Sight, is "an enormous horned, bat-winged entity carrying a corpse (his appearance on the outside) chained to him."

Also, if he got tangled up with either Sidhe Court, it's practically game over.? They'd offer him a deal to get rid of his curse and he'd accept it without thinking, which leads to him being in their debt.? Once in debt to the fae, I doubt he'd ever get out.? Take a look at Elaine, and hell, on a smaller level Harry himself.

EDIT:? I just thought of a story idea.? After Dresden book 4, Ranma makes a deal with Mab to cure his curse, and in return he becomes the Winter Knight.

I was saying no one wanted to see Evil Psycho Denarian Ranma.
All of the Denarians in canon are scary, vicious pricks.

Shezza's fic, nice though it is, is nowhere near canon. The only one we've seen who might be kind of near that is Lasciel, and that's not even the real her.

Kincaid, demon or not, doesn't flash physical superiority in front of Harry. I mean, yeah, he's doubtless strong, but he doesn't pull any of the Neriman level stunts. He's been shown to have supersenses, but apart from that the most impressive thing he does I can think of is kick down a door. :mellow:

No one wins against the Sidhe. No one. That doesn't make it any less interesting to see them try.

WK Ranma is actually an appealing thought, especially after he figures out that he's only a stand in for the job and what happened to the last WK.

So, that doesn't mean Kincaid's necessarily demonic in origin, just that his true self is, at least metaphorically, a monster. Kincaid isn't completely human, that's true, but I'm not entirely certain as to what, exactly, the other half is.

Wiki claims it's half-demon, but I wouldn't place bets on it.

Plus, the idea of ki-users being some sort of magic-user, frankly, makes more sense to me than the old 'there was ki all along that absolutely no one, not even that badass Japanese Knight, has ever brought up or utilized'. Cause, honestly, if anyone would have known how to use ki, I would have expected it to have been Shiro. If it's a form of magic, on the other hand...plus, lesser magic-users that aren't quite wizards are perfectly canonical in the Dresdenverse, since wizards are pretty much the elite...while Ranma and company, while some might have the potential to be wizards (though, I'd view that as being debatable), wouldn't have the training for it.

ki being magic does make sense. Especially since the ki attacks in Ranma are all elemental manipulation. (compressed air, stirring up a tornado, vacuum blades...)

I'd figure the White Council would probably write martial artists who barely use magic off as "clueless, rare and mostly harmless". They do, after all, keep to themselves almost as much as the Wizards do. Though it'd be interesting if they sent people around recruiting martial artists as Wardens, or at least assistants.

I'd say Ryugenzawa would attract their attention though. It runs the risk of breaking the Masquerade, after all.

curse you all, now I'm wanting to write this crossover. I'm already supposed to be doing something else. Oh, TFF :wub:
Though I'd have to catch up first. I haven't read Small Favor or Turn Coat yet.

Yeah, I've read the Wiki entry, then went back and checked the actual books...while it might be a demon, there's no actual evidence one way or the other yet, unless I missed it. And yeah, the only way to win against a Denarian is to put down the goddamn coin before you're hopelessly corrupted, and walk away from it and all the power it represents. That, and never use magic again, if you could in the first place.

@Croaker:? I only referenced Shezza's fic to show that it was possible to write a Denarian that wasn't all fucked up (well, actually he is, but you get the idea).? Also, I fully endorse the idea of you writing this story.? However, Small Favor is pretty important if you're going to use some of these ideas.? Possible spoiler, but not really - Mab, Kincaid, and the Denarians are all relatively main characters, and there's a lot more info on them.? Turn Coat, however, doesn't come out until April.

Also, in my opinion, Denarian!Ranma would be a trifle dull, probably because both crossovers I've read with the Dresden Files (Harry Potter in both cases) involved the crossover character becoming one...

Wouldn't mind another Nerima resident getting one, though. Mousse, Ryouga, Kuno, Taro...though, those are kind of obvious when it comes to choices. If you really want something interesting, you could always have Kasumi or Doc Tofu get one...or both...and slowly be corrupted... :evil2:

It is why I suggested a Tendo sister becoming the Denarian. If they got in trouble and needed a protector, you know they would have sought Ranma out.

It is why I suggested a Tendo sister becoming the Denarian.? If they got in trouble and needed a protector, you know they would have sought Ranma out.

Really, I thought you suggested Nabiki because she's your favorite Ranma 1/2 girl to pair with Ranma.

But, in all seriousness, that might well depend...they'd have to know that if they went to Ranma, he'd notice that they'd have changed. A lot. In ways that couldn't just be explained by the passage of time.

And if Ranma was a Knight of the Cross, he'd almost have to know what she was by now (remember, Michael'd known about Harry the whole time), and, unless he was completely clueless (fresh off the boat and all that), and thus, knew zippo about Denarians, he'd probably refuse to help unless they threw away the coin, or gave it to the Church. Remember, their primary goal is to redeem the Denarians, and Ranma would probably know that...they'd be safe if they were willing to give it up.

As Winter Knight, he'd probably know what they were as well, I imagine...they seem to get a lot of power, so Ranma would probably sense at least something very dark about them. Hell, if you go with ki being a crude form of magic, even a perfectly normal Ranma could possibly notice something really messed up about them. Still, Ranma as a Winter Knight might be more willing to aid them, regardless, but I still imagine that, unless he'd grown a lot more jaded and uncaring, he'd want them to throw away the coin in the first place.

So, they might well go to someone else...like, say, Harry Dresden, who's been known to be a sucker for a damsel in distress, as well as being an effective operator...and, frankly, he's got a pretty big reputation in the new world that they would have, by now, probably enmeshed themselves in to at least a certain degree...or someone else. After all, Ranma, while he can sometimes be easily manipulated, would probably have changed somewhat by now if he'd had much experience with the magical world, and, frankly, counting on him to be a patsy has a tendency to backfire, since Ranma usually finds out about it and turns the tables on them.

Personally, I wasn't suggesting Kasumi or Tofu to try and get them to escape the Denarians and run to Ranma for help...but for them to show up as a villain of some sort, later on down the road...if they did ask Ranma for help, it would be purely to lead him into a trap, to try and get him to take the coin, or get rid of a dangerous element, or simply to manipulate him into doing something that furthers the plans of the Denarians.

You assume Ranma as a Knight of the Cross would work for the Church. After all, they've been fighting the Denarians for how long? And how many coins have they obtained and yet somehow lost once again? The swords are also about redeeming a soul, not just to slay evil.

There is also the chance of creating an original position for Ranma. After all, the Queen Mothers of Summer and Winter live in the same cottage--though no one knows why. Ranma's defeat of Saffron could very well have elivated him to that sort of attention.

No, I'm assuming that he would have been in contact with the Church, not necessarily working for them. The Church seems to generally keep pretty good tabs on the various swords, do you really think that they wouldn't know if Ranma became a Knight of the Cross? And do you really think they wouldn't at least get in touch with him? And if they did, do you really think Ranma wouldn't, at a bare minimum, hear them out, even if he decides in the end that he'd rather solo it? Just because he's not working with them, on the other hand, doesn't mean he won't recognize that they're probably much better equipped to deal with one of the coins than he is...because he probably would know what it was, and somehow, I doubt Ranma is going to think that a coin that slowly (or not so slowly) generally robs people of their free will over time is going to be cool. So, he'd almost certainly want them to get rid of the coin, and what's he going to do, keep it in his pocket or something?

Unless you're going to presume that Ranma's going to think the Church is trying to sell him a big pack of lies or something, and refuse to believe them even after he senses that Nabiki's carrying around something dark and evil that just so happens to match the descriptions they probably would have given him? The Church isn't so stingy that it would refuse to give Ranma background information, even if he doesn't want to work with them, as long as it doesn't give away any of their own operations. Hell, Harry doesn't work for the Church, and he's sent people to them before for safety...

Also, I doubt Saffron's defeat would automatically win Ranma much of anything in the fae courts, unless it was a way to get a handle on him. Saffron, while powerful, isn't anywhere near the power of the Summer and Winter Knights, much less the various Ladies, much less the Queen Mothers of Summer and Winter...they could probably have handled them. Assuming that Saffron wasn't just something all his own, or, as was heavily implied in the manga, just the result of Jusenkyo mutating ordinary humans, and thus, not related to the fae courts at all unless Jusenkyo itself was created by the fae.

Edit:

Say...who is Mab exactly ?

I know of Titania and Oberon, king and queen of the Fae who look over the winter and summer court respectively (or at least that what I think is the case) but I can't remember any Mab from the few Fae legend I know of... :mellow:

Not from the legends, from the Dresden Files. In the books, there's always three queens for both Winter and Summer. There's the two big ones, who are simply known as Mother Winter and Mother Summer. Then, on Winter's side, there's Queen Mab and Queen Maeve, and on the Summer side, there's Queen Titania and Queen Aurora, who was later

Spoiler

. Each court has its own Knight, as well as their own Emissary. :mellow:

Spoiler

Adding to the Knight of the Cross talk, remember, the sword would start "pulling" (for lack of a better word) Ranma to places where he'd need to be. Also I agree with Luthorne, Ranma would probably be able to feel the evil of the coin. About the Church, Ranma might not have anything to do with them. You don't have to be Christian to be a Knight. Sanya is agnostic after all.

About Saffron, maybe he could be a (relatively) weak Summer (because of the phoenix thing) or Wildfae who chose to take over Jusendo and set himself up as a "Phoenix God." (Note the god part is in quotes.) Saffron knew he would never amount to much in the Nevernever, so when he found a place like Jusendo he decided to take over. The phoenix people could have been a tribe that lived there before, which he used transmogrification on to change them into weaker pseudo-copies of himself.

And we'll go from there.

 

[Sect]

So it sounds like we have two, possibly three paths here:

Ranma gets ahold of a Blackened Denarian (Don't think this one's going anywhere)


Ranma gets ahold of a Nail


Ranma becomes the Winter Knight (shaddup)

 

[Croaker]

Ranma becomes the White Knight

Winter Knight.

About the Knights of the Cross, I'm pretty sure we've seen them working together. Doesn't seem all that unlikely that Ranma would prefer to let one of the other Knights take care of any Denarius he picked up.

You assume Ranma as a Knight of the Cross would work for the Church. After all, they've been fighting the Denarians for how long? And how many coins have they obtained and yet somehow lost once again? The swords are also about redeeming a soul, not just to slay evil.

They've probably had most of the coins at one point or another. There's something difficult about protecting a quarter for thousands of years from creatures who (if Saffron=fae) make him look like a pansy, especially when "normal" humans like Genma could probably steal them with some effort.

That said, the Church has been fighting the Denarians for a long time. They haven't won, but on the other hand, Ranma should recognize just how much they would have learned by now.

@Croaker:? I only referenced Shezza's fic to show that it was possible to write a Denarian that wasn't all fucked up (well, actually he is, but you get the idea).? Also, I fully endorse the idea of you writing this story.? However, Small Favor is pretty important if you're going to use some of these ideas.? Possible spoiler, but not really - [cut].? Turn Coat, however, doesn't come out until April.

Is Small Favor in paperback? I'll probably pick it up this weekend.

The major difference about Shezza's fic, though, is Harry was pretty much raised by a Denarian. Ranma already has a strong values foundation, so even if he got a Denarius that wasn't only interested in eating his mind and wandering around in his body for a few thousand years it would probably be easier for the Denarian to do that than tempt him. To change that, you'd need to do an AU, and then because the Denarians don't tend to putz around for year doing Ranma things, you'd have to plot something that involved the Neriman cast instead of being a Dresden fic with Ranma in.
Like, say, a bunch of Denari being recovered by the Order and them deciding to get a bunch of quasi-magical hosts.
And where's there a higher concentration of quasi-magical people than Nerima?
(Assuming ki=weird protomagic).

 

[Deathwings]

Say...what if the Neko-ken act as a sort of mental protection against possession ?
Cats are very territorial and do not like intruder on their turf...

 

[spooky316]

Say...what if the Neko-ken act as a sort of mental protection against possession ?
Cats are very territorial and do not like intruder on their turf...

Or... what if neko-ken was a botched ritual to summon an Outsider to possess the trainee? I could see something like that working, but since the training was screwed up (let's assume that Genma's book didn't tell everything) it only left the instincts, and they would only surface if there was a catalyst (lots of cats being nearby).

About the Knights of the Cross, I'm pretty sure we've seen them working together. Doesn't seem all that unlikely that Ranma would prefer to let one of the other Knights take care of any Denarius he picked up.

They've probably had most of the coins at one point or another. There's something difficult about protecting a quarter for thousands of years from creatures who (if Saffron=fae) make him look like a pansy, especially when "normal" humans like Genma could probably steal them with some effort.

That said, the Church has been fighting the Denarians for a long time. They haven't won, but on the other hand, Ranma should recognize just how much they would have learned by now.

I think it was "Death Masks" where we saw all the Knights working together for a while. And I think in that book we also learned that the church has had all but eleven at at least one time. Also, wasn't that where we learned Nicodemus has killed around 100 Knights?

 

[MilesMortim]

About the Knights of the Cross, I'm pretty sure we've seen them working together. Doesn't seem all that unlikely that Ranma would prefer to let one of the other Knights take care of any Denarius he picked up.

They've probably had most of the coins at one point or another. There's something difficult about protecting a quarter for thousands of years from creatures who (if Saffron=fae) make him look like a pansy, especially when "normal" humans like Genma could probably steal them with some effort.

That said, the Church has been fighting the Denarians for a long time. They haven't won, but on the other hand, Ranma should recognize just how much they would have learned by now.

I think it was "Death Masks" where we saw all the Knights working together for a while. And I think in that book we also learned that the church has had all but eleven at at least one time. Also, wasn't that where we learned Nicodemus has killed around 100 Knights?

Uh... I'm pretty sure there are just three Knights of the Cross, as there are only three nails that were used to put Jesus on the cross. Amoracchius (Love), Fidelacchius (Faith), and Esperacchius (Hope) are the three swords wielded by the Knights of the Cross, each one (supposedly) forged from the three nails that pierced Jesus. Now, I'm not sayin' that there aren't more generic knights or Templars that serve the church, it's that there are a maximum of three Knights of the Cross at any one time.

 

[spooky316]

Uh... I'm pretty sure there are just three Knights of the Cross, as there are only three nails that were used to put Jesus on the cross. Amoracchius (Love), Fidelacchius (Faith), and Esperacchius (Hope) are the three swords wielded by the Knights of the Cross, each one (supposedly) forged from the three nails that pierced Jesus. Now, I'm not sayin' that there aren't more generic knights or Templars that serve the church, it's that there are a maximum of three Knights of the Cross at any one time.

You're right, of course. It's just that Nic has lived for thousands of years, and over the years, he's killed at least 100 different Knight of the Cross.

 

[Sect]

So, does make any difference who gets which sword, or are the swords pretty much the same, except for design?

And if Ranma DID become a knight, wouldn't that mean he's descended from royalty?

 

[Xon]

The biggest thing issue (like a HP/Dresden Files crossover), is that any mind control is the grounds for death according to the Rules of Magic and Wardens are Judge, Jury and Executor.

And Wardens, when prepared, have powerful kinetic shields which would stop most things we see used in Ranma. And against the blatent and large scale breaking of the rules of magic by the Amazons, the Wardens probably wouldn't even get involved. Blackstaff McCoy might go have a 'quiet' visit, and a few meteroid impacts later a few magic users are dead.

 

[Luthorne]

Well...they're supposed to represent Love, Faith, and Hope, so presumably there's something in regards to that, but I'm not entirely certain...that might just be a naming convention. Though, I'd doubt that, personally...but as far as I know, major differences beyond broadsword, katana, and saber haven't really been established.

And yeah, it's pretty heavily suggested in Small Favors that all Knights of the Cross are descended from royalty, which Harry speculated might be because of the connection between the land and its ruler...though, that hasn't been confirmed, since they're just now looking into it, but heavily implied enough for it to definitely be a factor, in my opinion.

Another thing to consider in this is the origins of Jusenkyo/Jusendo. If Saffron was, as suggested, a fae from the Summer Court (albeit probably not an important one), or possibly a Wyld fae, then it would seem that since he was being empowered (or restored, depending on what direction you want to take this) by Jusendo and such, it would seem possible that Jusendo itself, and by default, Jusenkyo, might have been created by the fae...either that, or it's something really old they took advantage of.

...another thing to consider is the Musk and dragons. Dresden dragons are...insanely powerful. Either the Musk were originally obscenely powerful, the entire Musk tribe is actually part of a convoluted scheme the dragons were involved with, pretending Jusenkyo was affecting them (since they can shapeshift), in order to create a useful dragon-blooded pawn on down the road, or what the Musk tossed into Jusenkyo weren't really dragons, just something that got confused with real dragons due to their appearance. The latter is probably the simplest, the second has some potential as a plot element, and the first...says scary things about who or WHAT the Musk might have once been, as well as the power of Jusenkyo...since that would have to be really fucking powerful magic to prevent a dragon from being able to assume whatever shape they want.

 

[Sect]

The biggest thing issue (like a HP/Dresden Files crossover), is that any mind control is the grounds for death according to the Rules of Magic and Wardens are Judge, Jury and Executor.

And Wardens, when prepared, have powerful kinetic shields which would stop most things we see used in Ranma. And against the blatent and large scale breaking of the rules of magic by the Amazons, the Wardens probably wouldn't even get involved. Blackstaff McCoy might go have a 'quiet' visit, and a few meteroid impacts later a few magic users are dead.

<_< I would like to say that they might be linient, since they were unaware of the Rules of Magic, but...

So, yeah. Hopefully the Jusenkyo acts as some sort of SEP field for the Amazons against the Wardens...

Wait. Jusenkyo DID hide the Amazons, but after Ranma killed Saffron and destroyed the source... Hm...

 

[Luthorne]

The White Council? Lenient? Remember, they kill kids who break the Seven Laws without knowing about them all the time. Remember, the only reason Molly Carpenter wasn't executed was because Harry took her on as her apprentice, thus vouching for her...and if she breaks one of the Seven Laws again, Molly and Harry will be executed. Harry was rather bitter about that particular part of being a Warden, if you'll recall...having to watch someone who'd used magic to control people's minds be executed in front of him.

Edit: Though, the Amazons aren't the only ones who got involves in that. Ryouga with the Koi Rod of Love, the hassle with the Umbrella of Love, Gosunkugi and his purchased dolls that could compel people to do anything if they were attached to their back, hell, even Ranma didn't hesitate to make use of some hypnotic incense he borrowed from the Amazons to attempt to get Happosai to change Taro's name...

The big ones for the Amazons that I can recall off the top of my head are probably...the Reversal Brooch, that mask Mousse got ahold of that either forces those looked at with the mask to apologize uncontrollably, or the wearer to apologize uncontrollably, the love pills (oh, that poor octopus...will it never find its true love again?), and those mushrooms that were mistakenly delivered that Cologne knew the properties of, that would, when fed to someone, make them perform the instructed action when a certain stimulus occurred for a certain length of time...which Ranma also used on Shampoo, so.

Edit Edit: It may also be worth noting that Happosai also attempted to use an object that he thought would bend Ranma to his will, though fortuitously, the actual purpose of said object was to stick the two of them together until the master was defeated by the disciple...unless that didn't happen rapidly enough, in which case it was forever.

Speaking of Happosai, back with the incident with those two kids who were following him around, it seemed actively painful for him to consider doing good deeds. We could always keep that as a psychological issue, but other possibilities might be that someone put Happosai under some sort of compulsion at some point in time, someone was actively keeping an eye on Happosai and prevented him from doing it, or Happosai is either partially or fully inhuman, and his nature prevents him from it. Thoughts on this?

 

[Xon]

<_< I would like to say that they might be linient, since they were unaware of the Rules of Magic, but...

The White Council's idea of leniency is to kill you now before you can summon something like an Old One (aka Outsiders) and they need to purge a city or so getting rid of the damn thing.

Dresden Files is basicly a Lovecraft inspired setting, except Humanity has thier own Cosmic Horrors kicking ass and taking names. They are called Wizards.

 

[Sect]

I know how "lenient" the Council is; why else do you think I made that face and trailed off at the end with the "but..."?

And I wouldn't exactly call the Wizards "Cosmic Horrors"... Really, it's more WoD, with less reality trying to kick the Wizards' asses. And somewhat more optomistic.

 

[spooky316]

You know, something that hasn't been mentioned yet that further condemns the Amazons and/or Happosai is the Nanban Mirror. Another instant execution, since time travel breaks one of the laws.

 

[Luthorne]

You know, something that hasn't been mentioned yet that further condemns the Amazons and/or Happosai is the Nanban Mirror. Another instant execution, since time travel breaks one of the laws.

Well, the Nanban Mirror is anime-only, so...I don't really consider it canonical, personally. That, and since I haven't watched all that much of the anime, and definitely never saw that episode, I don't know much about it except that it was a mirror that allowed time travel when a tear was shed on it, and they went back in time to when Cologne was young, and it got broken at the end. But yeah, if you wanted to use that as being canonical, the Council would Not Be Amused?. :mellow:

 

[Innortal]

Assuming the Amazons are under the jurisdiction of the White Council. Considering most of them are males, they might leave anything dealing with them alone, that or Cologne knows some spells that keep them away or undetected.

And the Nekoken as a failed ritual does make an odd bit of sense. How did Genma get the book? Why was the warning not until the end of the description of the ritual? Why was such listed in a book of unbeatable martial arts techniques? That does smell of a setup.

Saffron would have been a rogue Summer Fae, perhaps even a banished son of one of their Queens. The fact Ranma kicked his ass would get the attention of some of the Winter Court, and his own power would most likely get the attention of one of their queens, so there is a good arguement for Ranma being offered power by their Court. However, depending how how you play Saffron's standing, there is also a chance to gain the attention of the Summer Queens in both a good and bad way. In effect, Ranma could be stuck working for both courts, just depends on what is offered.

 

[spooky316]

Saffron would have been a rogue Summer Fae, perhaps even a banished son of one of their Queens.?

I don't think Saffron was powerful enough to be Titania's or Aurora's kid. Unless, of course, he was banished specifically because he was too weak.

 

[Luthorne]

Saffron would have been a rogue Summer Fae, perhaps even a banished son of one of their Queens.á

I don't think Saffron was powerful enough to be Titania's or Aurora's kid. Unless, of course, he was banished specifically because he was too weak.

Ditto. Saffron was pretty damn weak by the standards of the upper echelons of the fae court, and it's fairly heavily implied that a lot of his power came from him being empowered by Jusendo's water...personally, I see him as a low-level rogue from the Summer Court, some minor noble, or perhaps a wyld fae. Either way, he stumbled onto Jusendo's power, and figured out how to use it to temporarily empower him...though, judging from the manga, it would seem to have some nasty side effects when it comes to memory.

Alternatively, Saffron isn't related to the fae at all, unless Jusenkyo is a fae construct, in which case he and his people may have some of the power of the fae flowing through them, having absorbed it over time, which, in turn, is brought out by the ascension ritual that turns the heir into the King of Phoenix Mountain. :mellow:

And if the White Council knew of the existence of Amazons, I doubt they'd be given a choice as to whether or not they were under the jurisdiction of the White Council. The White Council governs all human magic-users, period, doesn't matter whether or not they consented to it. :sisi:

 

[JiigarGhen]

By the way, just something you all might find interesting.

Queen Mab was, in fact, mentioned in Romeo and Juliet and other 17th century stuff as the "fairies' midwife", as well as a dream-influencer and a plague-bringer; she's also been said to be Oberon's wife. It's also possible that she is based off of Medb, or Maeve, in Ulster myths. I don't know what exactly Butcher based her on, though; I can't recall any myths with a character named anything like Mab, Medb, or Maeve related to winter.

 

[Deathwings]

I'll like to point out that Saffron is suppose to have a level of raw power roughly equal to a nuclear plant or two, which is quite a lot if you ask me but then I never read any Dresden book so I can't really compare...

Idea : Saffron is a former member of a minor Summer court family who was exiled for being too weak and having absolutely no real talent on top of having one hell of an abrasive personality.

He was pretty piss off and decide to come to earth and find some way to get back at his detractor in some way. He found Jusendo and used it to become the Saffron we know, greatly expanding his power by using it but also crippling his level of control over said power.

Not only was he not that skilled with subtle energy manipulation to begin with, but now he had so much power that he couldn't use it for any else than his most basic spell, fire generation. He tried to remedy it, managing to create two regulator for his power (the Genkaja and Kinjakan) but he never manage to overcome his handicap. Trow in a couple of resurrections (loss of memories) and a tribe of local worshiping him and the god-complex took hold.

Nowadays, Saffron doesn't even remember he was a Fae to begin with and has lost a good part of what made him one too, such as his weakness to steel, or Cold Iron as Fae call it.

Now, the Fae aren't really happy with Saffron for a multitude of reason ranging from "I don't like his face" to resentment for proving them wrong about him (the Fae pegged him for being a total loser and now he has become the king of tribe and is fairly content with his life, how dare he ?), so when a human proceed to kick his ass (barely mind you) with only his body, skills and a form of magic so primitive that even the White Council tend to not consider it magic at all to begin with, they take notice.

Which kind of notice, you decide...

Oh, and the reason why the Fae didn't decide to take the matter of Saffron into their own hands is because a protective barrier exist around the valley that can keep even the White Council out.

 

[Luthorne]

...god complex? Saffron never claimed to be a deity. Only that he was to be the king of Phoenix Mountain. Also, misreading when you say he has the power of a nuclear power plant. Exact quote:

Saffron: "However...before acknowledging defeat, I shall teach this whelp...of the destiny of the king of Phoenix Mountain! The true king...like the phoenix, can control the heat and light that flow continuously from within his body. He makes the nights bright...and the winters warm for all his subjects."

Ranma: "In other words you're....just a one-man electrical plant!"

Saffron: "Feh. If all had gone according to plan, I would have hatched as that true king. But now..."

In short, analogy, not power-level. Saffron is powerful for a mortal, yes. Queen Winter and Queen Summer can literally kill you by looking at you. The fae are fundamentally tied into the forces of winter and summer. Imbalances between the Courts have caused Ice Ages as side effects. Queen Mab, Queen Titania, insanely powerful, would probably easily be considered comparable to deities. Gruffs, high-level enforcers for Summer Court, at least the more powerful brothers could likely easily take down Saffron. Especially the final brother, who made the earth shake every time his staff touched the ground.

Personally, doubt a barrier could keep out any powerful fae if they wanted in. Dresden's godmother could probably make it in through the Never Never. If it could, Jusenkyo must be ancient, obscenely powerful magic. While some of the minor fae aren't so bad...the big leaguers are scary. Wyldfae, Summer Court, and Winter Court alike. More realistic if they hadn't bothered to pay attention, though given some of the political intrigue that goes on in there, seems unlikely that they wouldn't pay attention to what could possibly be a useful pawn. Unless he was a useful pawn for someone, of course.

 

[Vorpal]

Ditto. Saffron was pretty damn weak by the standards of the upper echelons of the fae court, and it's fairly heavily implied that a lot of his power came from him being empowered by Jusendo's water...personally, I see him as a low-level rogue from the Summer Court, some minor noble, or perhaps a wyld fae. Either way, he stumbled onto Jusendo's power, and figured out how to use it to temporarily empower him...though, judging from the manga, it would seem to have some nasty side effects when it comes to memory.

I don't think that's right. It's true that Ranma thought that interrupting Saffron's ritual meant he was weaker, but if I recall things correctly, both Saffron himself and other members of his tribe have denied this--the implication was that the Jusenkyo water was intended to give him some sort of finer control over his power, rather than the "make big booms" one-trick pony he turned out to be without it.

So although it's implied that his Jusenkyo-induced transformation wasn't supposed to make him any stronger, we've no idea whether natural aging would have increased his strength. That way, it's possible to at least rationalize him both being weaker than expected and related to Summer fae royalty, if death and resurrection "resets" his strength (it certainly does his mind) and therefore he would've been weak simply because he was effectively very young. Or not, depending on author's whim, of course.

... Actually, that'd be a good pretext for Ranma becoming a Winter Knight. If he killed the equivalent of a little kid belonging to Summer royalty (even if they didn't like him much), it would be natural for the Summer court to be pissed at him.

 

[Luthorne]

Incorrect. the maturation cycle of Saffron was interrupted, leaving Saffron with the power, but not control over that power. The process was supposed to both empower him and give him control over that power. Since it was incomplete, he got the power, but not the control over that power necessary to use it properly. It wasn't stated that it had no effect over Saffron, but that it was interrupted before completed. Clearly suggests that it had some effect over him, and given that he clearly possessed vastly more power than he did prior to undergoing it, that power was evidently included. Sadly, don't have the manga on me at the moment, or could quote exact passage. Read the whole arc couple weeks ago when we were discussing Saffron in the thread on Jusenkyo.

Edit: Could be wrong, perhaps, but seems unlikely given the circumstances. I shall attempt to get the copies again before too long. Also, Knights not made casually. Reason for Ranma to seek out Winter Court, not reason for them to make him one. True, though, fae never forget a debt...either way. Winter Court owe Ranma little for taking out Saffron. Summer Court likely owes him debt of pain. Mab promised Harry vengeance for doing something against her she manipulated him into doing in the first place. Acknowledged he did her a favor. Also acknowledged that she would still have revenge. Fae are like that.

 

[Vorpal]

Then you're probably right in that regard, but it kind of misses the point as applied here. Actually, it makes even more sense that Jusenkyo didn't empower him (I mean directly), but rather his power (either total or the amount he can bring to bear at any one time) is tied to his physical maturity, because physical transformation is exactly what Jusenkyo is known for. From his little ritual, he went from a kid of ten or under to a kid of about sixteen, so this ties even better with the hypothesis that he was weak because he was young, while leaving it completely open whether his strength would have increased with further age.