Nasuverse Servant Gun

[Rabe]

The majority of those who became Heroic Spirits are individuals ranging from the most ancient times of humanity to the end of the 19th Century. Each Heroic Spirit is a unique existence; they are those who stood out from the others of their time by performing deeds and possessing qualities that nobody else could have. It is almost impossible for someone of the present era to become a Heroic Spirit, for the great events of the past are now everyday occurrences. In an age when the destruction of the planet can be prevented all the time by simply preserving the Amazon forest from being plundered by industries, saving the world is not a big deal. Additionally, because modern armaments are widespread and gives instant power to anyone who wields them, it is hard for a hero who uses todayÆs firearms to be recognized as a unique being. Even the most outstanding modern gunslinger will be seen by the world as ôan expert that everybody can become through trainingö, not as a ôunique existenceö. If the conditions for the creation of a hero are met for a user of modern armaments, what will ascend to the rank of Heroic Spirit will be the gun instead, under the terms of ôthe best weapon of its timeö.

As stated above a loop hole exists, a heroic gun or in other words a sufficiently self aware weapon could be Granted the Servant class of Gun

Heroic Spirit "Servant Gun" Candidate:Alpha build unregistered Safeguard construct Killy
from Blame!
<a href='http://www.mangarush.com/manga/blame' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.mangarush.com/manga/blame</a>
The inhabitants of The City even thousands of years after he completed his mission still talk about The Calamity, given Servants can be summoned to a time before their death, could he qualify?

If so please feel free to discuss the implications, as I'm mostly using this as a tool to further my understanding of this Verse

 

[Prince Charon]

Hmm, Kiritsugu summons Servant: Gun - Ultimate Sniper Rifle?

 

[Rabe]

Hmm, Kiritsugu summons Servant: Gun - Ultimate Sniper Rifle?

I know only the out line of Fate/zero so while I do get your reference to the Mage killer and I can see why a person like him would summon servant Gun, I'm not sure I'm following you wit the Ultimate Sniper Rifle thing, could you detail the idea a bit more?

 

[David Alan Abramczyk]

I think he means summoning Simo Hayha, the Finnish "King of Snipers".

 

[Rabe]

I think he means summoning Simo Hayha, the Finnish "King of Snipers".

Ah thank you, for the trip to Google.

While he should I think qualify for heroic spirit status, he seems to fall outside the loop hole I'm pointing towards.

 

[Liam-don]

I know I've been down that road before, but Heroic Spirit Gundam with its pilot Amuro Ray. :wub:

 

[Rabe]

I know I've been down that road before, but Heroic Spirit Gundam with its pilot Amuro Ray. :wub:

Again that meets the heroic requirement but that would involve a second human soul to use your Servant candidate, how about one of the many Amuro AI MSs from later UC, It would still lilly fit under the Servant Gun criteria that way.

 

[Liam-don]

But they tended to get totaled real quick for one reason or another, so they hardly qualify as the best of their time.

I generally assumed that the man responsible for the weapon's reputation got elevated with it, though I guess that would only work for unique weapons as opposed to mass produced rifles.

Heroic spirit M16? GAU-8?

 

[Rabe]

But they tended to get totaled real quick for one reason or another, so they hardly qualify as the best of their time.

I generally assumed that the man responsible for the weapon's reputation got elevated with it, though I guess that would only work for unique weapons as opposed to mass produced rifles.

Heroic spirit M16? GAU-8?

See this is where I think Type-moon put it's foot down, and snobbishly declared the modern age can't have "real" heroes.

As for the what you get from a Heroic spirit M16 or the GAU-8; probably a mage craft powered and Noble phantasm equivalent that works only for the master who summoned it.

My Idea was more along the lines of abusing the opened nature of the Type-moons move toward deifying the modern tool over the modern skilled user, By picking a tool that can use itself.

 

[Kai-]

Full paragraph from fuyuki wiki (ie: TM wiki didn't include all the details on this)

While modern weapons are powerful, those people who use modern weapons mainly are somewhat difficult to be put in the Heroic Spirit category. The greatest advantage of modern weapons is that "anyone can use them with the right training". But see, the thing behind that is that because of that, it's hard for them to become "one sole existence". These are what people call faceless heroes. If there is a hero that has on him modern weapons, what's going to be treated as the Heroic Spirit isn't the owner, an expert that anyone can become by training, but the "most excellent weapon of that era" itself. The weapon itself would have to have a soul however.

So, unless you can find a M16 with a soul, I think we'd be basically shit out of luck on this front.

--

@Rabe

You've got cause & effect mixed up. You wouldn't get a servant 'gun' because there is a heroic spirit that is eligible for the theoretical class of 'gun'. You get a heroic spirit (that is the servant class of) 'gun' because there is a servant class of 'gun' for it to slot into.

This is because when the grail war system was created, the 7 servant classes were designed to give a base of sorts for heroic spirits to slot into, which makes it easier for the soul of the hero to appear as had been when it was alive.

 

[Rabe]

Full paragraph from fuyuki wiki (ie:á TM wiki didn't include all the details on this)

While modern weapons are powerful, those people who use modern weapons mainly are somewhat difficult to be put in the Heroic Spirit category. The greatest advantage of modern weapons is that "anyone can use them with the right training". But see, the thing behind that is that because of that, it's hard for them to become "one sole existence". These are what people call faceless heroes. If there is a hero that has on him modern weapons, what's going to be treated as the Heroic Spirit isn't the owner, an expert that anyone can become by training, but the "most excellent weapon of that era" itself. The weapon itself would have to have a soul however.

So, unless you can find a M16 with a soul, I think we'd be basically shit out of luck on this front.

--

@Rabe

You've got cause & effect mixed up. You wouldn't get a servant 'gun' because there is a heroic spirit that is eligible for the theoretical class of 'gun'. You get a heroic spirit (that is the servant class of) 'gun' because there is a servant class of 'gun' for it to slot into.

This is because when the grail war system was created, the 7 servant classes were designed to give a base of sorts for heroic spirits to slot into, which makes it easier for the soul of the hero to appear as had been when it was alive.

So I was right?

I mean Killy doesn't use a lance,sword, Ride anything, hes not subtle enough for Assassin,doesn't do beserker rages, and is much too direct Fire for caster.

Archer?

Servant Gun was more of an idea to allow the introduction of tradition heroes from a unknown future into a Type-moons historical biased playing field.

Basically I feel something could be done with Servants like Gilgamesh() being hit up side the head with the fact t that mankind's greatest deeds are the ones as yet undone.

 

[Kai-]

Full paragraph from fuyuki wiki (ie:á TM wiki didn't include all the details on this)

While modern weapons are powerful, those people who use modern weapons mainly are somewhat difficult to be put in the Heroic Spirit category. The greatest advantage of modern weapons is that "anyone can use them with the right training". But see, the thing behind that is that because of that, it's hard for them to become "one sole existence". These are what people call faceless heroes. If there is a hero that has on him modern weapons, what's going to be treated as the Heroic Spirit isn't the owner, an expert that anyone can become by training, but the "most excellent weapon of that era" itself. The weapon itself would have to have a soul however.

So, unless you can find a M16 with a soul, I think we'd be basically shit out of luck on this front.

--

@Rabe

You've got cause & effect mixed up. You wouldn't get a servant 'gun' because there is a heroic spirit that is eligible for the theoretical class of 'gun'. You get a heroic spirit (that is the servant class of) 'gun' because there is a servant class of 'gun' for it to slot into.

This is because when the grail war system was created, the 7 servant classes were designed to give a base of sorts for heroic spirits to slot into, which makes it easier for the soul of the hero to appear as had been when it was alive.

So I was right?

I mean Killy doesn't use a lance,sword, Ride anything, hes not subtle enough for Assassin,doesn't do beserker rages, and is much too direct Fire for caster.

Archer?

Servant Gun was more of an idea to allow the introduction of tradition heroes from a unknown future into a Type-moons historical biased playing field.

Basically I feel something could be done with Servants like Gilgamesh() being hit up side the head with the fact t that mankind's greatest deeds are the ones as yet undone.

Nope.

You can't have a servant gun because there is no servant class of gun.

 

[Dementist]

First thought in my head when I saw the thread title: the character Gun of Cannon God Exaxxion summoned as a Heroic Spirit, class Rider.

Bit too broken though. If he could actually summon the titular mech, Fuyuki City and all the people/servants in it would be reduced to rubble and vapor respectively.

 

[Rabe]

Nope.

You can't have a servant gun because there is no servant class of gun.

New servant classes do happen, Remember Avenger?

 

[Watashiwa]

More to the point, there are an infinite number of heroes. What are the chances that all the heroes are going to fit into the seven (badly defined) classes? The Servant system is a construct, remember, and it CAN be broken.

 

[bissek]

There is only one gun worthy of being Servant Gun:

Vera.

 

[Rabe]

There is only one gun worthy of being Servant Gun:

Vera.

Well I still have fond memories of Servant Gun Winona

 

[yog]

In line with this idea:
Servant Rider, heroic spirit T-34 ( <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34</a> ).
Also, because HoS, servant Saber, heroic spirit Derflinger. Actually, he should really qualify, shouldn't he? He even has that possesion ability of his to control some body to wield him.

 

[Prince Charon]

I think he means summoning Simo Hayha, the Finnish "King of Snipers".

No, because the OP is that the GUN, not the USER, is the Servant.

 

[Shiakou]

Nope.

You can't have a servant gun because there is no servant class of gun.

New servant classes do happen, Remember Avenger?

While a new class did come to exist, it was weak, mostly tied to the Grail, and self-destructive. This bodes ill for any new class.

Logic also dictates that one needs to be capable of haxing the class system in the first place to get a new Servant class (in other words, you can't have a new class spawning spontaneously because that's a Deus/Diablo Ex Machina). The Einzberns were capable of it because they're one of the best mage families and one of the original families to create the system in the first place. You'd need someone with a similar amount of experience and magical knowledge.

 

[Rabe]

Nope.

You can't have a servant gun because there is no servant class of gun.

New servant classes do happen, Remember Avenger?

While a new class did come to exist, it was weak, mostly tied to the Grail, and self-destructive. This bodes ill for any new class.

Logic also dictates that one needs to be capable of haxing the class system in the first place to get a new Servant class (in other words, you can't have a new class spawning spontaneously because that's a Deus/Diablo Ex Machina). The Einzberns were capable of it because they're one of the best mage families and one of the original families to create the system in the first place. You'd need someone with a similar amount of experience and magical knowledge.

I get that there are very real practical concerns involved with creating new servant classes, the point is in spite of the concerns more can be added.

Gun seemed like about the only way to get a traditional (non counter guardian) heroic spirit from mankind's future instead of it's past, with Killy being the first construct/person that popped to mind after reading Type-moons snobbish take on modern/post modern heroics.

 

[Shiakou]

Nope.

You can't have a servant gun because there is no servant class of gun.

New servant classes do happen, Remember Avenger?

While a new class did come to exist, it was weak, mostly tied to the Grail, and self-destructive. This bodes ill for any new class.

Logic also dictates that one needs to be capable of haxing the class system in the first place to get a new Servant class (in other words, you can't have a new class spawning spontaneously because that's a Deus/Diablo Ex Machina). The Einzberns were capable of it because they're one of the best mage families and one of the original families to create the system in the first place. You'd need someone with a similar amount of experience and magical knowledge.

I get that there are very real practical concerns involved with creating new servant classes, the point is in spite of the concerns more can be added.

Gun seemed like about the only way to get a traditional (non counter guardian) heroic spirit from mankind's future instead of it's past, with Killy being the first construct/person that popped to mind after reading Type-moons snobbish take on modern/post modern heroics.

You misunderstand: I'm all for this idea so long as the issues are sufficiently addressed.

I nominate Backlace from <s>Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt</s>. Panty often talks to her(?) as if she was a thinking person and the series she's from acknowledges that spirits can form from anything with a strong enough attachment. Plus her ability to transform into clothing lets her travel around inconspicuously with her Master and without having to go into spirit form.

Her gun form is a semi-automatic pistol. She's also shown to transform into a scoped automatic rifle, IIRC.

. . . I would post a pic, but I can't seem to find one of Backlace that doesn't have Panty in a NSFW position.

 

[Kale]

Her gun form is a semi-automatic pistol. She's also shown to transform into a scoped automatic rifle, IIRC.

The rifle requires two panties transformed into pistols, and then combining the two pistols.

. . . I would post a pic, but I can't seem to find one of Backlace that doesn't have Panty in a NSFW position.

This was the first picture on google images.

 

[Shiakou]

Her gun form is a semi-automatic pistol. She's also shown to transform into a scoped automatic rifle, IIRC.

The rifle requires two panties transformed into pistols, and then combining the two pistols.

. . . I would post a pic, but I can't seem to find one of Backlace that doesn't have Panty in a NSFW position.

This was the first picture on google images.

. . . Let me rephrase that.

I couldn't find a pic in my personal cache that doesn't have Panty in a NSFW position. :wub: