Something I just realised about Usagi and co.

[Alzrius]

Seiya, thanks for the response! You raise some interesting points; just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, I'm going to try to paraphrase what you said.

First, the purification of the world that King Endymion referred to in the anime is necessarily the same purification that Sailor Moon performs throughout the anime - that of removing some sort of supernatural corruption. Second, that Usagi would not have attempted to remove ("purify") anyone's freedom of agency, as exemplified by her choosing to let everyone deal with the Chaos in their hearts on their own.

Is that right?

I don't necessarily disagree with your points. However, I feel that there are a number of other legitimate points that can be used to argue these assertions.

For one thing, we have (circumstantial) evidence that Usagi can backslide on her convictions. Admittedly, this is from the manga, but as you noted her future self lacks the firm belief in allowing evil to continue to exist for the sake of the greater good that her younger self displays. Ergo, it's not completely implausible to say that the future Neo-Queen Serenity suffers from a similar lapse in faith towards humanity.

Leaving that aside, there's still the issue that some members of the Black Moon clan - primarily Demando and Safir - didn't express much malevolence (using the caveat that malevolence is indicative of corruption) even when under the influence of Death Fantom. Given that they didn't fall under Death Fantom's sway until after reaching Nemesis - and that Demando remembers being on Earth - it calls into question the very idea that, in the anime, Usagi was purifying the Earth's populace of some sort of magical corruption.

(I'll also say that "fantom" is a variant spelling of "phantom," and that's the English version used in the new version of the manga.)

Admittedly, that's the primary - and quite possibly only - suggestion in the anime that the issue of the people who fled the Earth wasn't as black and white as it's otherwise presented. Nevertheless, it's not something that can be easily discounted, or at least I don't think so. Ergo, it creates room for speculating that the presumption of "the Earth's purification was Usagi removing magical corruption from everyone, and some people fled the world to escape that" isn't necessarily the case.

I'm really not in the mood for a CT Debate today.

I'm not sure what "CT Debate" stands for.

 

[Mick]

They probably mean Crystal Tokyo Debate.

 

[Alzrius]

They probably mean Crystal Tokyo Debate.

Ah, that'd make sense. I was thinking "Canon Theory" or something like that. ^_^

 

[Ordo]

For one thing, we have (circumstantial) evidence that Usagi can backslide on her convictions. Admittedly, this is from the manga, but as you noted her future self lacks the firm belief in allowing evil to continue to exist for the sake of the greater good that her younger self displays. Ergo, it's not completely implausible to say that the future Neo-Queen Serenity suffers from a similar lapse in faith towards humanity.

Taking a look at the wiki and what it has to say on Sailor Cosmos

Sailor Cosmos was a character who played an important part in the Stars arc of the Sailor Moon manga, where she was revealed to be the true form of Chibi Chibi (who had very different origins in the anime).
After Sailor Galaxia's death, Chibi Chibi revealed to Sailor Moon that her true form was in fact Sailor Cosmos. Her future, as told to the Sailor Quartet, was not a hopeful one - Sailor Chaos waged war against the universe, and everything and everyone Sailor Cosmos knew was destroyed to the point where nothing could be salvaged even if the war ended. Upset, scared, and unable to do anything, Sailor Cosmos ran away from her future, opting to go into the past to destroy Chaos before it achieved its terrible Senshi form.

To destroy Chaos, she decided that she also had to destroy the Galaxy Cauldron, and so in the form of Chibi Chibi she tried to guide her past self, Eternal Sailor Moon, towards that end. Even though Eternal Sailor Moon was determined to save the Cauldron and chose a different path, she nevertheless inspired hope in Sailor Cosmos with her power and courage. She stated that the Eternal Sailor Moon who had saved the galaxy was, in fact, the true form of Sailor Cosmos, and that once she had that same courage and strength, only then would she truly be Sailor Cosmos.
What happened to Sailor Cosmos after she sent the Sailor Quartet to the future in Act 52 was not specifically stated. She said that she would return to her own future, inspired by Sailor Moon's strength, and that she would resume her fight in order to reclaim the mantle that she lost with her cowardice.

Sailor Cosmos' nature was not entirely clear, and her appearances in Act 51 and Act 52 brought forth more questions than answers. It was stated by Sailor Ceres that she was the ultimate future form of Sailor Moon, but it was unclear whether Sailor Cosmos was the future self of the current Sailor Moon (thus making her Usagi's next incarnation after Neo-Queen Serenity), a reincarnation of the current Sailor Moon, a descendant of the current Sailor Moon, or even Sailor Moon from an alternate future. Naoko Takeuchi herself seemed to imply when questioned that Cosmos' true identity was intended to be ambiguous to everyone, including herself.

The parts in bold are the two major roadblocks to your interpretation

To summarize

1. Future Sailor moon hadn't lost faith in humanity, she'd lost a war against the embodiment of chaos and everyone was already dead, without anyways to bring them back as far as she could tell.

again from the wiki

The Galaxy Cauldron was the birthplace of all stars and all living things in the galaxy. It was first mentioned in Act 47 of the manga, and was stated to be at the center of the Milky Way galaxy, in Sagittarius Zero Star. In the final manga arc, the Cauldron was taken over by Chaos, the purest form of evil, and Sailor Moon was faced with a choice: destroy Chaos and the Cauldron, thus ending all war but also all life, or preserving both, ensuring that life would go on but that war would as well. Chibi Chibi tried to convince Sailor Moon that destroying it to end all suffering was the right thing to do, but Sailor Moon told Chibi Chibi not to give up, to always have hope, and that living life was more important. Sailor Moon then threw herself into the Cauldron.

2. It's actually not clear if Cosmos was Usagi at all. She may be a descendant or the next inheritor of the power, or from an alternate future entirely. So her relevance to Usagi and the Rabbits future personality is tenuous at best.

Leaving that aside, there's still the issue that some members of the Black Moon clan - primarily Demando and Safir - didn't express much malevolence (using the caveat that malevolence is indicative of corruption) even when under the influence of Death Fantom. Given that they didn't fall under Death Fantom's sway until after reaching Nemesis - and that Demando remembers being on Earth - it calls into question the very idea that, in the anime, Usagi was purifying the Earth's populace of some sort of magical corruption.

From the wiki:

In the anime, Prince Demand's history is different. Born on a prisoners' planet, Prince Demand originally intended to reason with Neo-Queen Serenity, explaining that he and his people are descendants of criminals, not criminals themselves. Wiseman manipulates the young prince to be unforgiving to the people of Earth.

Basically, Nemesis was Australia and the Demand had no issue with Serenity. Wiseman twisted his mind making anything he says concerning their exile afterwards, suspect.

 

[Alzrius]

Taking a look at the wiki and what it has to say on Sailor Cosmos

I cringed a little here, because while I normally laud wikis, Sailor Moon is an area where I feel that the wiki(s) are - perhaps hopelessly - corrupted by the influence of fans for whom the fanon brought about by poorly-translated and poorly-edited material is correct, to the point where they've essentially canonized things that aren't strictly true.

I say this largely because I've seen at least one instance of this happening when someone tried to correct these issues. Remember that Dies Gaudii page I linked to earlier? The author of that page tried to make the corrections he wrote about there to the Sailor Moon page on Wikipedia. He was eventually kicked off the site because, to the fans who moderated the page, he was polluting it with changes that contradicted what they "knew" to be true (largely summarizing their attitude as "yes he's right, but he's not always right, you know?").

The parts in bold are the two major roadblocks to your interpretation

To summarize

1. Future Sailor moon hadn't lost faith in humanity, she'd lost a war against the embodiment of chaos and everyone was already dead, without anyways to bring them back as far as she could tell.

I feel that that's a case of missing the forest for the trees. It's not a question of needing those specific circumstances to cause a specific reaction. Rather, it's a broader acknowledgment that while Usagi may be a beacon of unparalleled optimism right now, there's cause to indicate that she won't be able to unceasingly maintain this outlook no matter what happens in the future.

The fact that we see her (as Sailor Cosmos) take a stance that's the opposite of one she'd taken previously (as Sailor Moon) is enough to establish the larger point (even if she does re-recant when she sees her younger self). Given the right (or perhaps, the wrong) circumstances, she can backslide on her beliefs.

2. It's actually not clear if Cosmos was Usagi at all. She may be a descendant or the next inheritor of the power, or from an alternate future entirely. So her relevance to Usagi and the Rabbits future personality is tenuous at best.

Leaving aside that the quote from Naoko Takeuchi is unsourced, the best indication is the one given in the context of the manga itself from Sailor Ceres - that Sailor Cosmos is the future form of Sailor Moon. The rest of the theorizing seems to be based on fan-made implications.

Now, it's entirely possible that Sailor Ceres is wrong, but given the lack of any further context within the source material, it's best to go with the theory that makes the fewest assumptions. Ergo, it's relatively safe to posit that Sailor Cosmos is Sailor Moon.

From the wiki:

In the anime, Prince Demand's history is different. Born on a prisoners' planet, Prince Demand originally intended to reason with Neo-Queen Serenity, explaining that he and his people are descendants of criminals, not criminals themselves. Wiseman manipulates the young prince to be unforgiving to the people of Earth.

Basically, Nemesis was Australia and the Demand had no issue with Serenity. Wiseman twisted his mind making anything he says concerning their exile afterwards, suspect.

Here I believe the wiki is simply flat-out wrong. While it's true I haven't re-watched Sailor Moon R in a number of years, I don't recall anything indicating that Demando was born on Nemesis, much less that he was initially planning on opening a diplomatic dialogue with Neo-Queen Serenity.

From what I remember, the only sequence that directly deals with Demando's past is the flashback where, as children, he and Safir look at a small flower on Nemesis. Safir marvels at it, but Demando bitterly recounts how only small flowers grow on Nemesis, and that he wants to show Safir the larger flowers that grow on Earth.

Ergo, the explanation with the fewest assumptions is that Demando is speaking from personal memory. Hence, he was alive on Earth prior to reaching Nemesis. Since the anime gives no indication that Wise Man/Death Fantom was originally from Earth, this still gives us reason to question the idea of "the purification as a mass-cleansing of magical corruption."

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Really, last I remember he said it was pretty much what Ordo said. Demande I remember stating it was his relatives that came on Nemesis. Not himself and before Wiseman did want to talk peacefully with NQS. The flowers were just something he had heard about and that he wanted to show Saffir. It's been close to two years since I last watched the anime so I could be wrong. But that is what I remember. Nemesis was not a recent thing.

Also two issues. Manga Usagi and ANimeUsagi are two different beasts. Anime Usagi is ridiculously more idealistic than her manga counterpart. One should not use one interpretation to predict how the other would react. Manga Usagi and Anime Usagi are two different girls. Manga Usagi is far more willing to kill and less of a crybaby. Second Sailor Cosmos' identity is so vague that even Naoko Takeuchi flat out said she doesn't know who she really is. She is a character open to interpretation. She could be Usagi from a farther future, a alternate future or a reincarnation. She DEFINITELY should not be used to gauge Usagi's character. Her only tie to Usagi is the line stating, "Usagi is the Me of here." in Act 51/52.