Naruto Taijutsu Styles

[half baked cat]

Was reading a discussion about the Hyuga's Gentle Fist style and thought I would make some comments (Original discussion had no replies in years and any comments I might make would not be with the original purpose of the thread).

Gentle fist, or Juken, is based upon the real life style of Baguazhang (Eight Trigrams Palm).

The real life style is a very deadly style of martial arts that focus on footwork to stay up close to the opponent, get into their blind spot (preferably behind them), and strike at key pressure points to disable, maim, or kill the opponent. A master of Baguazhang can kill a man with two strikes that do not require much effort on the user's part.

In addition, a few things from popular culture are things that come from actual strikes of Baguazhang. For instance, the Quivering Palm Monk class feature from D&D and Pathfinder where there is a delay (possibly days long) before the person that was struck by it dies is based on injuries that can be inflicted with this style. The Vulcan neck pinch is another thing, although in Baguazhang it is more of a strike to the proper pressure point in the right way to knock the opponent out.

So, if writing about a practitioner of Juken, a bit more focus should be placed in how the user moves around the field and the opponent than I have normally seen.

I actually am training in Baguazhang, so feel free to ask me for more info about the style and I will help. I cannot teach you the style because I am not that skilled in it, but I can explain different aspects of the style.

I am curious about Gai and Lee's style. At least if there is an actual style. It could just be what they learned in the academy, combined with stupid levels of training to get to the point they can shatter stone with their pinkie if they wanted to.

 

[zeebee1]

I doubt it's actually based around that style. You claim that it's based around attacking from behind. But the Gentle Fist tends to be used directly in front of the target.

 

[half baked cat]

Ideally it attacks from behind. Then again, anyone pragmatic enough would strike their opponent from behind where they cannot see. That being said, attacking from behind is not, usually, as interesting to watch and it is very hard to get behind a skilled opponent. Now, a random thug, it is very easy, but at the difference in skill levels of a ninja and a random thug, there are quicker ways to deal with them.

 

[zeebee1]

If it's the basis of the style then they'd do it more often. I don't think the style has the origin you believe it does.

 

[half baked cat]

Um, it isn't the basis. It is an ideal. As in, if you can manage it, do it. If you can kill your opponent, then do it. Don't hesitate to use any advantage.

The basis is walking the circle. Which is a method of training how to move while in combat to get into the most advantageous position to strike.

 

[zeebee1]

Neji doesn't walk in a circle. The circle surrounds him. It's an entirely different concept.

 

[half baked cat]

Yeah, Baguazhang and Juken are different styles with Juken being based on Baguazhang. Both are focused heavily on precision, but there are lots of differences. The biggest one, for someone that knows what to look for, is the hands. Juken uses two fingers pointed out, while Baguazhang has the hand in an open, relaxed manner.

 

[Altered Nova]

I don't think the Strong Fist style is based on any specific real martial art. Most of the basic attacks and special techniques we see Gai and Lee use would be impossible or impractical in real life (crazy jump kicks for example), and their stances (excluding the DBZ "powering up" ones) are pretty generic. Strong Fist seems to be more of the "anime" style martial arts to me.

Also I just realized this, but "Strong Fist" and "Gentle Fist" might not be the actual names of their martial art styles. I mean, they are pretty darn simple and generic names, and when Gai first describes them he uses those names as a generic descriptor for the styles. "You could call it an "Iron Fist" style."

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Gōken=smash bones using impact force. "Gōken" might be an "unofficial" name Guy gave it as explanation. In short, it's the usual way to fight people by punching them hard.
JÅ«ken=smash internal organs using chakra injections

Hyūga's (Hakke-ryū?)Jūkenpō=use Byakugan to inject chakra into the opponent's chakra pathway and\or tenketsu to better smash internal organs.
Note: Neji uses the prefix Jūkenpō, "Gentle Fist Art", a few times. At very least it should be an official name

 

[pspinler]

I've also some training in Ba gua zhang, and I'm not sure I'd entirely agree with your assessment of a relationship between Gentle Fist and Ba Gua.

Longish digression into martial arts training and mechanics here:

I'd agree with the emphasis on footwork you mention, but I'd additionally describe Ba gua as having an emphasis on internal power generation, and power strikes to and from otherwise odd appearing angles. I'd additionally add a strong emphasis on chin na (joint locking and throws) and multiple opponent techniques. My training, while it included pressure points, didn't rely on them to the degree you appear to describe.

In my training, the strike feels effortless not because it's primary purpose is to strike a pressure point, but rather because the power generation is from an entirely different set of mechanics. Ergo the designation as an internal, daoist based art, rather than an external strength and tension based art.

It's not that I don't hit hard, it's that the cues that I'm hitting harder or softer are way different than I'd experience in, say, northern shaolin or kempo or mui tai.

From experience, being hit with this feels like your insides are being pulped, it's penetrating energy rather than concussive. One of my first demonstrations of this (which I foolishly volunteered for), my instructor punched me on one side of my ribs, and I bruised on the opposite side of my body. My insides just felt like a blender was taken to them.

Ergo, in my training, pressure points, while useful and interesting, aren't emphasized for striking. For chin na, that's another story.

End digression:

It's clearly canon that Gentle Fist is an energy manipulation based art, but I don't think it's based on Ba Gua. Clearly many different martial arts have pressure points. See, for instance: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/102092-Martial-Arts-Based-on-attacking-pressure-points

Now if Gentle Fist demonstrated similar tight, circular footwork, or attacking to odd angles ...

Edit: I should mention that my training is in Yin style Bua gua. If your training is in some other sub-style, e.g. shishi, your experiences may differ.

-- Pat

 

[half baked cat]

Well, I am very new at Bua gua. The information I spouted was my understanding of the information that I had read. You are clearly much more experienced at it, so I will bow to your wisdom in this case.