Naruto The Crumbling Leaf

[Knyght]

So this is what happens when you chuck a bunch of divergences together.

After the Sand/Sound Invasion, Konoha falls.

After being struck by the Chidori, Gaara breaks Sasuke’s arm and throws him away. Instead of being dragged away from the village, he manages to keep transforming into Shukaku.

The invasion begins. Instead of fighting alone, Orochimaru has Kimimaro join him to fight Hiruzen. Kimimaro was able to fight in spite of his illness through willpower and Orochimaru had already decided that he would take Sasuke’s body instead, making the Kaguya an expendable tool. With his aid, Orochimaru is able to defeat the Third Hokage without having his arms sealed.

Naruto ends up being the one to fight Gaara in the stadium whilst being surrounded by numerous other battles. Gaara uses his Bijuu Transformation and Naruto summons Gamabunta, causing a large-scale battle in the centre of the village until Naruto eventually comes out the victor. When Orochimaru emerges from the barrier with his men, leaving a dead Kimimaro behind, he is fended off by Jiraiya whilst Danzo comes out of hiding to the hold off the rest of the invasion with Root.

The invasions ends but it’s a pyrrhic victory.

Konoha tries to put up a mask of strength but their enemies smell blood in the water. Iwa and Kumo launch an offensive that finally brings about the destruction of Konoha. Its shinobi are killed, captured or forced to flee. Many become refugees in other countries, some give up their lifestyles as shinobi entirely and others become wandering mercenaries. Fire Country is torn apart by its enemies.

The Konoha Twelve – or what was left of them – became mercenaries. They travelled the continent and took missions from all kinds of clients whilst escaping any who tried to hunt down the remaining leaf-nin. They are even joined by a former member of Akatsuki, Itachi, the supposed traitor of Konoha who was actually one of its protectors.

Their journey took them to Wave Country and, from there, to Water Country. An attempt to escape the mainland and all of their pursuers that actually got them embroiled in another war as the Fourth Mizukage’s reign was drawing to a close. They allied themselves with the rebels, all for the sake of their shared dream: vengeance against the ones who destroyed their home and the restoration of Konoha.


It's a bit bare bones at the moment but I wanted to get it out there after stitching the ideas together. Thoughts?

 

[Altered Nova]

I'm not sure that Iwa and Kumo really would invade Konoha even in this scenario. I mean, Konoha lost literally half their shinobi forces in the canon invasion, yet no one attacked them. How badly would they need to be hurt before their enemies are willing to attack, and would it even be worth it to invade them at that point? Keep in mind that if *any* village invades Konoha, then *all* of them probably will as none of them can allow a rival to take all of Konoha's territory, resources and military secrets. Konoha's central location between all the other villages might offer them some protection by setting up a cold war situation. Iwa, Kumo and Kiri will all make unreasonable demands on Konoha, expand their borders further into the Fire Nation and probably send in smaller strike teams to try and surgically snatch up valuable targets like Kekkei Genkai, valuable hostages, weapons and jutsu scrolls, but a full-scale invasion from any of them would almost certainly result in another Ninja World War that none of them likely want to get involved in.

I see several possibilities:

The Fire Nation shrinks considerably and Konoha becomes a minor village, but they still exist. Naruto would almost certainly be given specialized jinchuuriki training as he is virtually Konoha's last great weapon aside from Jiraiya. Danzou might well take power as his black ops connections will be far more valuable to a village so lacking in manpower. Instead of accepting Suna's surrender and allying with them, Konoha might just annex the village and conscript their shinobi into Konoha's forces in a desperate attempt to stay a major village and to acquire a second jinchuuriki.

A major war breaks out in Fire Nation and Konoha becomes the battleground for every other village that's trying to carve a piece for themselves out of the Fire Nation spoils. A major bad end, the village is wiped out and the population is devastated. Konoha becomes the next Ame. If Konoha still exists at all it will become a real hidden village, using guerilla tactics to try and reclaim their nation from the invaders.

A Kage Summit is called to decide how to divide up Konoha without resorting to war. Konoha cannot refuse because they know they cannot stand against the united might of the three remaining major villages, so they are forced to surrender their assets or face annihilation from a joint shinobi army. Konoha shinobi that don't become refugees or prisoners flee to Sunagakure with Gaara, as a Shukaku jinchuuriki in the desert is the only weapon they have powerful enough to fend off their pursuers and protect them from death or subjugation. Konoha ceases to exist as a hidden village, but Sunagakure becomes quite powerful as their forces are bolstered by former Konoha-nin and they now have two jinchuuriki as well as numerous famous bloodlines and clans such as the Hyuuga.

 

[Python453]

I actually had a similar idea and tried to make a fanfic out of it. The execution, however was... really off. I ended up scrapping the idea all together. If you're writing this, I hope your attempt goes better than mine.

 

[Knyght]

While we know Konoha lost half its forces, I doubt the rest of the world knew that. That was the whole point of them sending out practically all of their ninja on active missions to project the image of strength, and the higher-ups were worried about their enemies preying on them. All out war seems like a very real possibility.

Here, the conflict between Shukaku and Gamabunta would have caused all kinds of property damage and greater losses to their forces so it's even more extreme than canon. Jiraiya and Orochimaru too, probably. And I think the stadium was filled with lords and nobles so that'd be a big deal.

 

[Altered Nova]

Good points. I wonder if Naruto will still redeem Gaara if their fight takes place in the middle of Konoha. If Naruto can see dozens or hundreds of Konoha-nin and innocent civilians getting butchered with each Drilling Air Bullet Shukaku fires and each building Gamabunta accidentally steps on, he might decide that Gaara is too far gone to talk back to sanity and go for a quick kill instead.

 

[Knyght]

Well, it's not like he was trying to change Gaara or anything. He just wanted Gaara to understand that he understood his pain (whilst threatening him). This Naruto may still be somewhat understanding because it was clearly Shukaku who was doing all the killing rather Gaara, but he'd also know that Gaara would have been the one to set him loose in the first place. Where canon Naruto warned Gaara that he'd stop him if he crossed the line of hurting his friends, here he would have more-or-less done so even if it wasn't one of Naruto's actual friends who'd been killed.

I could imagine him still telling Gaara that he understood what he had gone through but that it was no excuse for what he'd done. So yeah, unless someone intervenes, I think it's likely that Naruto would kill him this time. Though I dunno if he'd go for a kill shot at every opportunity (bit more ruthless than I'd expect) or if he'd aim to actually stop Gaara first and then finish him off (like still doing the headbutt and the punch but then pulling out a kunai when they're on the ground).

 

[zeebee1]

If Naruto was capable of fighting at the end of the battle he would have killed Gaara.

 

[Knyght]

Not without being provoked, I think. He did say "If you hurt my friends...If you try to kill them..." so it's more like he delivering an ultimatum; accept defeat or I'mma drag myself over there and choke you to death.

 

[da_fox2279]

Instead of accepting Suna's surrender and allying with them, Konoha might just annex the village and conscript their shinobi into Konoha's forces in a desperate attempt to stay a major village and to acquire a second jinchuuriki.

Would Konoha even have the necessary strength to demand this at this point, much less the political clout? They're hurting, badly, and facing the possibility of attack at any moment. Hell even in canon, all they got was Gaara and his siblings helping out on the Retireval mission.

While we know Konoha lost half its forces, I doubt the rest of the world knew that. That was the whole point of them sending out practically all of their ninja on active missions to project the image of strength, and the higher-ups were worried about their enemies preying on them. All out war seems like a very real possibility.

Here, the conflict between Shukaku and Gamabunta would have caused all kinds of property damage and greater losses to their forces so it's even more extreme than canon. Jiraiya and Orochimaru too, probably. And I think the stadium was filled with lords and nobles so that'd be a big deal.

There's a very real chance Suna would go "haha no, fuck you." They know full well what kind of damage Shukaku can do.

 

[Knyght]

It was a bit more than that. The Sand Siblings spent three months in Konoha, presumably helping the village with missions, after Suna had surrendered unconditionally.

Which there's a good chance of not being a repeat of. Their invasion was largely successful so even after discovering their dead kage, they could think the benefits were enough and end up committing more of their forces for another attack, this time without being hampered by the need for secrecy. Though it's possible Suna lose even more of its own forces here, which would be especially bad if it was Gaara. They'd have lost their superweapon and their rep.

 

[Altered Nova]

Considering that the invasion was a failure in canon Sand must have lost almost as many ninja as Konoha did, and they had a lot less ninja than Konoha to begin with. Furthermore Konoha was basically holding their jinchuuriki hostage for three months. I doubt that even with Konoha as weakened as it was that Suna had the strength left to resist any of their demands, their surrender wouldn't have been unconditional if they did. I'm pretty sure that Gaara was held in Konoha for so long so Konoha would have more leverage to force Suna to accept their input on the restructuring of Suna's government and to accept any trade agreements and treaties they demanded, so Suna is probably economically dependant on Konoha and barely independant now.

Heck the fact that Naruto knocked the crazy out of Gaara and he became so cooperative is probably the only reason Konoha ANBU didn't just extract Shakaku from Gaara and kill him. I doubt Suna was actually expecting to get him back not only alive, but sane. That must have been a very pleasant surprise. That plus their invasion being ordered by an imposter probably filled most Suna-nin with great shame and they honestly regretted their invasion and betrayal of an ally and really did want to make it up to Konoha.

At least that's the impression I got in the manga, I mean their Kage was kidnapped in a direct attack on their village and they had to ask Konoha for help, they literally had no other shinobi besides Chiyo and maybe Baki who were powerful to even hope of protecting or saving Gaara. Suna is basically Konoha's bitch.

 

[Knyght]

Looking back, it says complete surrender rather than unconditional surrender. Is that the same thing? Jiraiya said that talks with Suna was going well so there was apparently some negotiation going on though it's not clear what. Konoha didn't have much choice in what to do with Gaara since he left at the end of the battle. He and his siblings didn't come back to Konoha until over a month later.

But anyway, Suna's gonna be in a weak position with Konoha in an only slightly better position. Though Suna's probably in far less danger from foreign attack simply because there's little to gain from taking their country whereas Konoha has some pretty nice land. And kickass clans and bloodlines.

 

[Nasuren]

Unfortunately I doubt it would be that easy for this scenario to work like you expect. For all their bluster and power, the Kage and other village leaders have shown in the manga that they can't go to war without the blessing of their Daimyo.

Now let's take a moment and remember that the stadium audience was put asleep with a genjutsu, but wasn't attacked beyond that. Since there's nobility in the audience (likely containing Suna's Daimyo or some other noble in his court), there's likely a reason why the Sand/Sound forces didn't bother to kill them. Considering that the Daimyo has the power to declare war and is usually the villages biggest source of funding, killing them is pretty much suicide. Plus Suna's Daimyo have shown that while the Daimyo is important to the village's survival, the opposite isn't true.

War over Konoha isn't the worst case scenario here. The worst case is if the major Daimyo are in the audience if Gaara and Naruto decides to throw down. If that happens, we're talking about possible full blown civil wars across the map with enough politics to make even Marvel's Civil War choke.

 

[Altered Nova]

Well I'd assume that the Daimyo would have bodyguards who would be at least badass enough to resist a mass sleep genjutsu, grab their daimyo and run for it. So unless the invaders are specifically targeting the daimyos or they get really unlucky and Shukaku just happens to fire a Drilling Air Bullet directly at them, then the daimyos will probably survive. They are not gonna be happy about a goddamn bijuu being unleashed right in their laps though, the Wind Daimyo is gonna have some explaining to do. Hell that's probably why he was replaced by Part Two in the manga.

 

[Nasuren]

Well I'd assume that the Daimyo would have bodyguards who would be at least badass enough to resist a mass sleep genjutsu, grab their daimyo and run for it. So unless the invaders are specifically targeting the daimyos or they get really unlucky and Shukaku just happens to fire a Drilling Air Bullet directly at them, then the daimyos will probably survive. They are not gonna be happy about a goddamn bijuu being unleashed right in their laps though, the Wind Daimyo is gonna have some explaining to do. Hell that's probably why he was replaced by Part Two in the manga.

If any of them had any sense, then they wouldn't try to. The stadium might seem like a deathtrap, but I don't see any guard trying to take his charge from a situation where the attackers are trying to capture civilians to the outside where they're trying to kill everyone. I also highly doubt that anybody except the Suna guests know of Shukaku, which they'd most likely expect not to murder such high ranking members.

 

[Altered Nova]

Didn't the Suna-nin start freaking out when Gaara started transforming right there in the arena? Pretty sure they all recognized that Gaara was too unstable to avoid attacking the Daimyos and were worried about them getting killed. And the other non-Suna high ranking ninja would know what a jinchuuriki is and also be aware that most of them barely have any control when they fully unleash their bijuu. Anyone badass enough to both resist the genjutsu and be charged with guarding a daimyo probably would recognize that staying in the stadium would be suicidal if Gaara's transformation hadn't been interrupted and he hadn't fled the stadium.

Also I kind of got the impression that the Suna and Sound nin were actually trying to kill all the disabled civilians and shinobi and were also targeting the daimyo (that the genjutsu wasn't meant to capture, but rather to limit resistance). It would explain why Kakashi and Gai and the other elite Konoha Jounin couldn't go after Gaara or rush to defend their Hokage, they were busy defending the daimyos so Konoha wouldn't be blamed for them dying in their own village. That would have been very, very bad for Konoha both politically and economically.

 

[Knyght]

Baki and the sibling were upset because Gaara was fucking up the plan. He was meant to transform into Shukaku when he saw the signal, but because he hid himself inside the sphere he wouldn't be able to see. Then he got wounded and the sphere collapsed without him doing his transformation because of it, and then they had to abort the mission because of the side effects of the failure.

I'm pretty sure the whole point of Gaara being involved was pretty much to destroy the entire stadium and then the rest of the village. Instead the daimyos basically ended up as useful hostages - and a few them probably did get killed - so the leaf-nin couldn't throw around big attacks and even one of the ANBU squads were ordered to "protect the ministers".

 

[Nasuren]

Look, killing a Daimyo isn't a smart move. The moment that a Daimyo or another representative is slaughtered is the moment their home nation would declare a vendetta against both Suna/Oto and their representative country. Suna would be doubly screwed as their Daimyo is most likely either in the crowd or sent a representative in his place. Killing them would literally be suicide as Suna's already in decline thanks to cuts in funding and would likely have to shut down if their government completely cuts their funding.

 

[Knyght]

If Suna's daimyo or his representative is in the crowd, then they can pull him out when the fights begins so he'd unharmed. No-one's gonna go after him. But the plan makes it really unlikely that the other daimyo were gonna survive; you don't put an unstable jinchuuriki with an equally bijuu in the same place as the lords and expect them to survive when the attack kicks off.

The Suna ninja are just following orders and even then, they could consider removing their biggest competitor worth the risk since it would make them the biggest badasses in the land. And the guy who came up with the plan is Orochimaru. Orochimaru has little reason to care whether the daimyos die since Oto doesn't belong to one country and he basically wants to cause a big stir in the ninja world. And Konoha gets even more flak for allowing an invasion to happen, losing their Hokage and being unable to protect the daimyos they were hosting.

But I've lost track of what the actual issue is here...Edit: In relation to the story itself, I mean.

 

[Nasuren]

You're attempting to field an idea in which Konoha falls and the country gets divided up by the other villages. I'm trying to say that it won't work due to the following reasons:

1: The hidden villages might be a show of power, but shown by the demilitarization of the greater Hidden Villages and the mass demilitarization of Suna means that they aren't necessary.

2: The Kage takes orders from the Daimyo, and the Daimyo are the only ones that can declare war.

3: You're focusing too much on having Konoha taking the flak for the whole invasion and the possibility of the death of the nobles in the audience when any feudal lord would focus more on the murderers.

4: The mass death of nobles wouldn't just lead to problems for Konoha. The sudden deaths of leaders of countries would lead towards a mess of political instability across the map, to the point that mass civil wars and invasions are possible due to the quick transition of power.

 

[Knyght]

1: They’re necessary but they are not as necessary because it’s peace time. Without hidden villages, the nations don’t have any military power and even downsizing the village too far means they’re screwed if a war breaks. But maintaining them is costly so the “stupid minister” took advantage of the alliance to use Konoha as the cheaper option, forgetting the potential – inevitable, considering the way their world works - danger.

2: Hm, are they? All that comes to mind was that video conference which was done for the purpose of them approving of an alliance between all five nations/villages. And Suna obviously weren’t taking orders here. Even if that’s the case, then it’s simple to address.

3: I didn’t meant to say that Konoha would be taking all of the flak for it, but having these feudal lords die on their turf would be a problem for them. Not as bad as it would for Suna (and technically Oto but I’ve gone over that) but their own feudal lord would be forced to fund them again, and client that would have originally gone to Konoha could be willing to change over to their conquerors. I expect from their perspective that the potential benefits of success are worth the consequences, though they might not be thinking that when it’s all said and done.

4: And that’s fine. For me, the main point of the idea is that Konoha falls, and this doesn’t really hinder that. Just adds to the overall situation.

 

[Nasuren]

1: They’re necessary but they are not as necessary because it’s peace time. Without hidden villages, the nations don’t have any military power and even downsizing the village too far means they’re screwed if a war breaks. But maintaining them is costly so the “stupid minister” took advantage of the alliance to use Konoha as the cheaper option, forgetting the potential – inevitable, considering the way their world works - danger.

2: Hm, are they? All that comes to mind was that video conference which was done for the purpose of them approving of an alliance between all five nations/villages. And Suna obviously weren’t taking orders here. Even if that’s the case, then it’s simple to address.

3: I didn’t meant to say that Konoha would be taking all of the flak for it, but having these feudal lords die on their turf would be a problem for them. Not as bad as it would for Suna (and technically Oto but I’ve gone over that) but their own feudal lord would be forced to fund them again, and client that would have originally gone to Konoha could be willing to change over to their conquerors. I expect from their perspective that the potential benefits of success are worth the consequences, though they might not be thinking that when it’s all said and done.

4: And that’s fine. For me, the main point of the idea is that Konoha falls, and this doesn’t really hinder that. Just adds to the overall situation.

So basically you want a return the pre-village days? That the most possible probable outcome if mass civil wars break out.

 

[Knyght]

In what sense?

 

[Altered Nova]

First question - how is the sudden death of the Daimyos going to lead to civil wars? Unless they are really stupid they've probably got a clearly defined line of succession of at least a few dozen people. Civil wars and mass unrest shouldn't happen unless everyone else in line to become daimyo also get assassinated or they've stupidly got multiple successors with equal claim to the title.

Second - how is mass civil wars/succession disputes going to lead to a return to the pre-village days? Unless the major villages themselves dissolve into multiple factions and pick sides, any succession disputes will be decided in favor of whomever can pay their nation's village the most money because the ninja villages seem to be literally the only military forces the daimyos have and they are mercenary organizations who are more loyal to their paychecks than to their host nations.

 

[Nasuren]

First question - how is the sudden death of the Daimyos going to lead to civil wars? Unless they are really stupid they've probably got a clearly defined line of succession of at least a few dozen people. Civil wars and mass unrest shouldn't happen unless everyone else in line to become daimyo also get assassinated or they've stupidly got multiple successors with equal claim to the title.

Second - how is mass civil wars/succession disputes going to lead to a return to the pre-village days? Unless the major villages themselves dissolve into multiple factions and pick sides, any succession disputes will be decided in favor of whomever can pay their nation's village the most money because the ninja villages seem to be literally the only military forces the daimyos have and they are mercenary organizations who are more loyal to their paychecks than to their host nations.

Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself...

The whole premise of this idea is that Konoha falls, something that can't really happen with the Daimyo in a position to do something about it. Like I pointed out, Suna's Daimyo had been sending his missions to Konoha and cutting Suna's funding, so it possible to say that a nation's security isn't totally dependent on the hidden villages as people would like to believe. Without taking measure to ensure that it won't happen, there's always a chance that he'll just re-establish the village. The same goes for his heirs, Suna would literally have to ensure that the government would be in no condition to try and revive Konoha.

At this point, I would also like to point out Gaara transformed in the middle of the stadium filled with the rich, powerful and influential.

Now considering that the governments seem to be monarchies, I expect successions to be somewhat tense when they're done normally in a stable environment. Multiple nations? I highly expect that there is a least a few people that would use underhanded methods to ensure that the heir is unable to inherit the vacant throne.

As for your second point? I highly doubt that any village would influence their government for the simple sake of money. Considering that the Daimyo is still in charge of their nations and not the villages, I'd say that there's more to their forces than mere mercenary ninja. If they were, what was stopping Suna from simply killing their Daimyo and taking control instead of going after Konoha?