Harry Potter The Degradation Of HP Fanfics

[Israfel]

So now because I have my own Rants board I can finally have a place to complain about everything that I find fault with in HP fanfics, and you know why, because it's MY Rants meaning I can talk about whatever I feel like here, ah freedom, it's such a great feeling. Mwuahahahah!!!

Anyway, I'd have to say one of the most annoying things that I see so much in Harry Potter fanfics these days is ruining an amazing story by introducing a pairing into it, not just a Harry/Ginny pairing (no matter how much I hate that one, BURN IN HELL GINNY!!!! *fries Ginny with flamethrower then pisses on her ashes*) but any pairing whatsoever, I find many fics should just NOT have a pairing in them, it ruines the whole character of Harry they've developed not to mention sidetracking them away from the main plot. I've seen many a great fic sink like the Titanic because they hit the Shippers iceberg.

Another thing that bothers me about the whole pairing thing is when the author asks for his readers to vote on what the pairing should be, you know what that says to me is One. That author is a review-whore and is using a cheap trick to ry and get more reviews, and Two. that it must not be a very good plot or storyline if you can change the character that the main character is going to be with and it won't have any significant affect on the story. When I write a fic if there is any pairing at all it is always quintessential to the story and the entire plot would fall apart if you changed the pairing, because if I use a pairing then I have a reason to, not just because I feel like a particular two characters together just for the hell of it.

It really bothers me when authors will get the initial pairing done (let's say Harry/Hermione :wub: in this case) and then just randomly pair off ALL of the supporting characters just for the sake of having everyone in a relationship (like putting Ron/Luna (which I hate by the way, poor little Luna having to be put together by so many authors with ugly, gluttonous, slovenly, Ron), Neville/Ginny, Dean/Parvati, and Seamus/Lavender together just to have them together).

Grr, it makes me so angry :angry: . Ok, now that I'm warmed up I can start putting some of my real 'complaints' towards most HP fics these days. h43r: B) :lol:

 

[Fatuous One]

Can I add a segment to this rant?

Okay, topic? Homosexual pairings.

First off, I don't have anything against homosexuals in real life, and I don't have any true problems with yaoi pairings in fanfiction either (although I'm not likely to read them). However, I find the high amount of yaoi in Harry Potter to be... disturbing. On that tangent, let's get the two seemingly most popular slash pairings... Harry/Draco and Harry/Snape. I mean... WTF?! Not only is it completely OOC, it just doesn't make any sense. Harry hates both Malfoy and Snape with a passion and they him. Okay, that's being a bit silly, considering I like OOCness so long as its explained with a decent plot. But that's the whole thing, they're almost NEVER given a decent amount of reason behind it. It's suddenly from hate/hate to BUTTSECKS!! OMGHAWT!! With that out of the way, even any decently written Harry/hatedother (few that they may be) has major problems of introducing really, really dumb plot points. Popular one? Hmm... male Veela. Suddenly Malfoy is a veela descendant and needs to get it on with Harry for... some reason... Snape is all spiffy clean and supportive of this relationship (or might even join in,) and Harry's friends/family disown him because he's gay/siding with the enemy. Again, WTF?

... ... ...I think I'll stop before I go into complete rabid frothing mode.

Re: Israfel's rant -

Pretty much in agreement with all your points. I too believe that a great fic can get completely ruined by introducing pairings into it. I'm not much of a Ginny fan myself, but that's actually more due to Fanon!Ginny who is a complete psychotic bitch. Don't get me wrong, I don't really like Ginny all that much anyway, but I think they can be a good pairing so long as it sticks more to her original character (this does not include Rowling's showing of the pairing, which I personally thought sucked Horntail balls).

Although I agree that 'voting' for pairings is really lame, I don't really think that a fic is unstable because of it. Some author's wing the story completely, and while this sometimes makes things very messy plotwise, it can work quite well. Romance isn't just black and white, flings can turn into full fledged relationships (and fall apart just as easily) and slow burning courtships can take a turn for the worst at the drop of a hat (and maybe rebuild itself). You're making the characters seem very two-dimensional if you say that pairings can't change within the story without it falling apart.

And yes, carelessly pairing off people 'just because they shouldn't be alone' piss' me off completely. It's part of the reason why I didn't like the canon Ginny/Harry story, because my sister made the whole relationship out to be a perfect setup. Harry/Ginny, so that Harry will be part of the Weasley family, and then Ron/Hermione so that not only will Ron be his brother (in-law) Hermione would be close at hand as well. Her squeals of happiness almost caused me to vomit (if she was an anime character, sheÆd have hearts in her eyes/dancing around her head).

Okay, ranting over. I feel a lot better now.

Oh, and Luna=pure awesomeness.

Fanboy? Me? Nooooo... what would give you that idea?

 

[Israfel]

Can I add a segment to this rant?

Okay, topic? Homosexual pairings.

Oh believe me I was going to get to SLASH in my next Rant and still wil despite this one because I've definitely got some grievances I'd like to air with that horrid...thing.

Although I agree that 'voting' for pairings is really lame, I don't really think that a fic is unstable because of it. Some author's wing the story completely, and while this sometimes makes things very messy plotwise, it can work quite well. Romance isn't just black and white, flings can turn into full fledged relationships (and fall apart just as easily) and slow burning courtships can take a turn for the worst at the drop of a hat (and maybe rebuild itself). You're making the characters seem very two-dimensional if you say that pairings can't change within the story without it falling apart.

I suppose this just bothers me because I ALWAYS have a reason for everything I do in my stories and if I have a pairing I have it for a specific reason with two specific characters intended, I say that you can't change it without the plot falling apart because if I have a pairing it's because some part of the story depends on something that'll come out of that pairing and it has to be the character I intended for it because if it was someone else than it would be a different character with a different personality and thus cause things to go in a different way than I had intended. See for me writing is somewhat like building a house of cards, every aspect of it is there for a reason and must be carefully placed because it will eventually hold up several other portions of the structure as well, there is no more and no less than what is needed to accomplish the point that I'm driving at.

To me if you could change the main characters significant other than you shouldn't have a pairing in the first place because that pairing obviously doesn't have much inportance in the fic and thus should be left on the cutting room floor. A lot of authors just go for as many words as they can get to get a big word count but if you have too many unecessary than the story just gets muddled and is very tedious to read. I suppose I'm a kind of fanfic purist or something.

 

[Fatuous One]

I suppose this just bothers me because I ALWAYS have a reason for everything I do in my stories and if I have a pairing I have it for a specific reason with two specific characters intended, I say that you can't change it without the plot falling apart because if I have a pairing it's because some part of the story depends on something that'll come out of that pairing and it has to be the character I intended for it because if it was someone else than it would be a different character with a different personality and thus cause things to go in a different way than I had intended. See for me writing is somewhat like building a house of cards, every aspect of it is there for a reason and must be carefully placed because it will eventually hold up several other portions of the structure as well, there is no more and no less than what is needed to accomplish the point that I'm driving at.

To me if you could change the main characters significant other than you shouldn't have a pairing in the first place because that pairing obviously doesn't have much inportance in the fic and thus should be left on the cutting room floor. A lot of authors just go for as many words as they can get to get a big word count but if you have too many unecessary than the story just gets muddled and is very tedious to read. I suppose I'm a kind of fanfic purist or something.

Mmm... I can see from that point of view. But at the same time I'd like to point out that is quite close to a completely overused clichÚ of destined pairings. While clichÚs aren't inherently bad, they can get quite tedious. Which is part of the reason why I like pairings that are more chaotic, like real life relationships. If the pairing is important to the plot itself, then that's fine, but it's still quite... (dare I say it?) unrealistic. It's not that I detest the destiny plotline, but I still like to read a whirlwind of emotions in a working relationship rather then pure fluff. While that is still possible with that point of storyline, it's far less engaging simply because you KNOW that its going to turn out alright in the end.

In short, it's simply a matter of taste.

 

[Israfel]

Mmm... I can see from that point of view. But at the same time I'd like to point out that is quite close to a completely overused clichÚ of destined pairings. While clichÚs aren't inherently bad, they can get quite tedious. Which is part of the reason why I like pairings that are more chaotic, like real life relationships. If the pairing is important to the plot itself, then that's fine, but it's still quite... (dare I say it?) unrealistic. It's not that I detest the destiny plotline, but I still like to read a whirlwind of emotions in a working relationship rather then pure fluff. While that is still possible with that point of storyline, it's far less engaging simply because you KNOW that its going to turn out alright in the end.

In short, it's simply a matter of taste.

You misunderstand, I didn't say that all of my pairings were this 'destined' pairings, I just mean that I do every pairing in all of my fics for a reason, that doesn't mean that the main character won't go though any number of girls during the fic or that the girl of the moment won't be dumped later on, it just means that I have them paired together to accomplish something or for some specific reason. And believe me my fics are NOT the type to have any fluff in them, that's just not the way I operate, generally I don't have pairings in fics at all anyways.

 

[Fatuous One]

You misunderstand, I didn't say that all of my pairings were this 'destined' pairings, I just mean that I do every pairing in all of my fics for a reason, that doesn't mean that the main character won't go though any number of girls during the fic or that the girl of the moment won't be dumped later on, it just means that I have them paired together to accomplish something or for some specific reason. And believe me my fics are NOT the type to have any fluff in them, that's just not the way I operate, generally I don't have pairings in fics at all anyways.

Mmm... I see... that's a very meticulous approach. It's also very enlightening on your views regarding fanfiction.

Anyway, one more rant: Fanon!Harry Potter People.

Why is it that fanon characters of Harry Potter are so freaking... idiotic?! I pointed out before that Fanon!Ginny was a psychotic bitch (which is true). But Fanon!Malfoy (Draco that is) is insecure, abused and selfless, Fanon!Snape is snuggly (and has clean hair!) and Fanon!Harry is a depressive rebellious self-mutilating sex god. I could go on, but why suffer more? I simply would like to know what goes on through some people's heads when they write this stuff. Actually, on second thought, I really DON'T want to know what goes on through these people's brains

 

[Israfel]

Anyway, one more rant: Fanon!Harry Potter People.

Hey one rant is ok but that doesn't mean this is your own little unofficial section to rant in, it's mine, mine :angry: ! *pouts and crosses arms protectively over Israfel's Rant section like a two year old. :lol: * Believe me I'll get to all those points. But I'm just kidding, I don't care if you rant as well ...just don't make it a habit. :angry:

 

[Fatuous One]

Hey one rant is ok but that doesn't mean this is your own little unofficial section to rant in, it's mine, mine :angry: ! *pouts and crosses arms protectively over Israfel's Rant section like a two year old. :lol:? * Believe me I'll get to all those points. But I'm just kidding, I don't care if you rant as well ...just don't make it a habit. :angry:

Fine fine, be possessive! I don't care at all!! :angry:

Heh, no, I'm satisfied now. Those are pretty much the only two peeves I have about HP fanfiction. Well, unless you get into pairings, which I'd really rather not.

 

[Israfel]

Lately I've noticed a lot of authors seem to be putting a lot of useless extra stuff in their stories just to up their word count, like putting author's notes the size of a small chapter. One of the things that most annoys me is when they feel the need to recap the ENTIRE f-ing HP series at the beginning of the fic, good lord people if we hadn't already read the books we wouldn't be reading the fanfics for them so WHY do you feel the need to recap EVERY LITTLE THING using up half of your first chapter! WHile the other half is taken up by Harry moping about the Dursleys depressed because Sirius died! I cannot tell you how many times I've seen a fic start off this way, it's called ORIGINALITY people, try it. When you can skip over a good chunk of text in a story and not be missing anything at all (which is what I normally do when I see authors falling into this pattern) that means that you need to do some serious editing because your story is going NOWHERE! Also when people make the text only go halfway across the page so that the chapter seems longer to make up for the lack of actual writing that's gone into it.

Also, why is it that the only two ways people seem to be able to pull off a decent Harry/Bellatrix coupling is have Bella suddenly break free of the Imperious she's been under all these years or with Harry going completely evil or joining Voldemort. The only exceptions to this that I can think of at the moment are "The Dark Witch and the Necromancer" by Heiko2003 and "Earl of the North" by Lord Silvere. Hyne, there is a middle ground between the two, *sigh* it just seems no one wants to use it.

I was planning to hit upon SLASH in this one as well, but...well, that one needs its own post. So to finish this post, my deep and abiding hatred of Snape! Let's start off with one simple fact, I Hate Snape. He is a greasy pathetic man who's decided to take out a grudge on the son of a man who's been dead for years, not to mention him having a significant part in killing the Potters as well. He is not Harry's father, Lily would not sleep with him, he wasn't Lily's secret friend throughout Hogwarts, and he most certainly DOES NOT feel any attraction towards Harry. The only redeeming thing about him, and the reason he is where is today, is his intelligence and ambition, and just which house venerates those traits? He joined Voldemort because he no doubt saw it as the winning side and had most likely been indoctrinated with that pureblood rubbish since birth, he later joined Dumbledore because it seemed as though Voldemort was no longer quite as assured to win as he had thought. So essentially as long as either Voldemort or Dumbledore dies before he's found out then he's free and clear, all he has to do is go to the winner and say "But of course I was always loyal to you Dumbledore/Voldemort, I was merely fooling Voldemort/Dumbledore so as to better serve the cause." and bam there you go, Snape's once again dodged the noose. Back on topic, Snape is evil, if anyone has any doubts of that go read the sixth book, if you want to argue that he only killed Dumbledore because he would have died if he didn't because of the Unbreakable oath then the only thing that proves is that Snape is a coward who is unwilling to sacrifice himself for the good of the many. Snape has never and will never like Harry, he saved Harry from various gruesome ends because of the life debt he owed James Potter which is a MAGICALLY BINDING contract that cannot be gone against, not to mention Snape's own pride preventing him from not paying it back. Next, Snape is not Harry's father, Lily would never sleep with him and if James found out that she did he would assuredly leave Lily, no matter how long he'd pined and worked to get her. Not to mention why Lily would want to sleep with him, the only way I can see Snape being Harry's father is if he raped Lily, which I highly doubt, not to mention James would have killed Snape. It's just not going to happen people, Snape is not going to be redeemed nor do I think he really wants to be.

 

[thecodthemullet]

yes snape is a bugger.
the pity about snape at least from my fanficcing perspective is that before book 6 he was, at least, a workable bugger character wise. we don't really need more greasy gits just for the sake of it. and it seems unfortunate to me that he's been shoehorned into a corner, if for no other reason than it gives us as writers very little leeway with the character.

jay(who actually doesn't like snape, but did have a fic going with him in that had to be put into mothballs as the character was no longer workable)

 

[AzureSky]

...Snape is not going to be redeemed nor do I think he really wants to be.

Amen brother!

Onto the next rant!

 

[Israfel]

Ok, now here is something that has been grating on me for a LONG time and I am sick and tired of it! It seems like every HPLL fic that I've found recently that has any decent amount of words in it has Luna as a cutter. Why in the world does every two-bit author and their brother seem to want to make Luna into a cutter, I swear people just because she's teased a lot does not automatically give you the right to just say "oh she must be a cutter". It's just not in her character, the canon!Luna would never cut herself and I doubt she would have even ever heard of that practice as it is (though with Luna she might have heard about it while researching one of her 'articles' for the Quibbler). But regardless that's just not the way her character is, as far as I can see any author who has to make Luna into a cutter to write her character is simply looking for an easy way to get her and Harry to have some interaction and to have the reader establish some pathos for Luna, as you all well know by now I HATE AUTHORS WHO TAKE SHORTCUTS! If you can't think of a way to effectively write her character without turning her into a cutter then you shouldn't even be bothering to write her at all. I will admit then Luna is possibly the hardest character to write but this just makes it all the better when you find a story that really and truly captures the essence of her amazing character. It goes against everything in Luna's modus operandi for her to be a cutter as she is, in my opinion, one of the most collected characters in the book, her calm and level headed-ness rivalling that of Dumbledore's even. For her to be taking some wimpy escapism route like cutting is so out of character for her that it can scarcely even be called Luna anymore and not just some random OC. On the topic of cutting, as far as I see it, it really has no place in HP fanfiction whatsoever, no matter the character, and really doesn't fit with the HP world in general. Luna's entire character is based around the dichotomy of her detachment from the world around her and her somewhat unnerving insight into the people around her when she does choose to grace the corporeal realm with her attention, she is established as a nearly unshakeable character and, until J.K.R. says otherwise, that is and will be the canon and the character.

Another thing I've noticed that people do when trying to correctly characterize Luna is have her dialogue mainly revolving around one made up animal or another that the author randomly creates to fit the scene or just as filler dialogue, once or twice is ok but good god making those over half of her lines is just a lack of creativity on the authors part. We all know Luna has more going on in her head then that and I wish some authors did as well so that they'd be able to write her properly. I think the best Luna characterization that I have ever read would have to be in the story "Spinning" by Aldalindil, this story, although it's sadly only a one-shot, is probably the best that I've ever seen Luna portrayed, easily on par with the Luna that J.K.R. herself writes (damns J.K.R. to the pits of hell for not giving Luna a bigger part in HBP). Here's the link.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1714654/1/

So, in conclusion, I must emphasize to everyone, when writing Luna do please try to stick with the character and remember, above all else, be original!

 

[Vexarian]

This post has been deleted by this forum's moderator, Israfel, due to this user being banned and his comments being of the offensive and homophobic nature. So it is said, so it is done.

 

[Israfel]

Arcadios, if you don't have anything that isn't hate speech to say then just hold your peace for Hyne's sake. It's a person's choice whether or not they want to be straight, gay, bi, or whatever. Just because we like to complain about all the tasteless yoai that inundates fanfiction doesn't mean we're all homophobic or hate gays, I personally couldn't care less. So just hold off from all the hate comments would you. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

[Israfel]

Don't just change your post to get off the hook from what you said. Here's what Arcadios said originally.

This quote has been removed.

And I think that I made it abundantly clear in my last post that I don't hate gays.

And now you've changed it AGAIN. Here's what you said last time now.

This quote has been removed.

Stop changing your posts.

 

[Vexarian]

This post has been deleted by this forum's moderator, Israfel, due to this user being banned and his comments being of the offensive and homophobic nature. So it is said, so it is done.

 

[Hawk]

i did change it... didnt realize anyone was gay in her

Doesn't matter if anyone is or isn't, as long as the discussion about it takes place off this forum or follows rule 4.

Which Arcadios didn't manage to do with the woot-woot-thingie, which is the reason why I've now removed his posting privileges indefinitively since he's already been warned once for breaking the rules. And the moment I manage to figure out just how to permanently delete a member, he'll be my first test subject.

 

[Israfel]

Okay folks, now to get this thread back on topic I haven't done a rant for awhile so here we go.

I am depressed. Why am I depressed you ask? Becuase, today for the first time in a number of months I decided to go out on my own into the HP section looking for a decent H/Hr romance since I found myself in the mood for one, boy what a mistake that was.

For the last several months I had read pretty much exclusively on recommendation only or by what I was already watching for updates so I was a bit underprepared I suppose to be striking back out on my own into that torrent of crap we call the HP section. I mean I was expecting to see a number of bad, extremely cliched, and just all out self-indulgent fics, but what really got me was when I had finally found one that I thought looked decent enough, had a decent amount of reviews, and had some pretty good length to it I clicked it and settled in for at least a half way decent read, I wasn't exactly expecting a Rosswrock here or anything like that but at least something to keep me moderately amused. So I start the fic and within two lines I find this written across the screen

He spun around to see Hermione standing in front of him, just as happy to see him, as he was to see her. Harry looked her up and down and realized that she didnÆt look like the same Hermione Granger that left him at the end of 5th year. That Hermione Granger had bushy brown hair that was uncontrollable, and she always had a serious look in her eyes. And that Hermione didnÆt pay much attention to her weight. This Hermione Granger had wavy brown hair, which looked amazing on her, and she looked more relaxed and not as serious, and she had a wonderful figure. Harry was happy with the little differences there were in Hermione.

and that is taken directly from the fic, that is the sort of thing people write when they're mocking bad fiction for Hyne's sake! That someone could write that as an honest-to-god story while not being the least bit sarcastic or anything was just incredibly depressing to me, I suppose I should have expected and known this already but really, it's just plain sad.

That people could write this sort of thing was a startling wake-up call for me I suppose because I had forgotten just how truly and utterly cliched fanfics could be. When I read this I just pulled my cap down low over my face and spent a minute in reflection of what fanficton once was and how it could have possibly been bastardized into its current form. Really when you think about it, we live in a very sheltered exitence here on a small 'island' so to speak of the fanfiction world with our collection of the fanfiction elite and it is good as long as we stay here, but I've found it makes us truly and woefully unprepared to face some of the true horrors of fanficton that are out there.

What's so depressing about it is that it's not even the 'OMG that is horrible!!! This guy needs have his fingers torn off one joint at a time!!!' bad that we sometimes see posted here as a joke (Two words: Artemis' Lover) it's just that sort of sad and pathetic bad that doesn't make you want to flame or point it out to anyone in particular but just to click the back arrow 'till you're back at the main page and try your luck again, just that sort of bad that makes you want to turn off the PC and go outside and do something, and there can be no other type of 'bad' that is worse than that, for that is truly the oppitome of lowest of the low.

Even gawd-awful yaoi smut at least we can joke about and curse to the ninth circle of hell but this even isn't even horrible enough to make us do that, it's just plain pathetic and sad, people trying to be authors and failing, not failing atrociously just being downright mediocre, which is the worst way in my oppinion.

I suppose that the fact that they're is just so many pathetic people that are so much alike is what really depresses me, if I ever found anyone who was exactly like myself I'd either move to other corner of the world or just kill myself on the spot, that's how important individuality is to me.

One of my friends used to tell me that it just got to him sometimes when me, him, and a coupla' other people were doing something and he'd think to himself 'How many other people are doing this exact same thing that we are right now?' and to him being unique and different is the world so that would generally completely kill his mood, let's just say that if he ever found that he was exactly like everyone else and just another 'mainstream' pseudo-intellectual then he'd probably kill himself, he's not, he's actually a very intelligent and witty guy but if he ever thought he was like the above mentioned stereotype then well...

Anyway the point I'm trying to make here is just that be original people, it doesn't have to be good or bad, just be original, hell I don't even care if it's horrible, as long as it's horrible in a way I haven't seen before. And I suppose that I could use that as a segway into my anti-yoai rant about how there's 'only so many ways you turn a straight character gay before you just need to let it die' but I think I'll save that for another day, for now this is all.

 

[H-Man]

If only you people didn't blow my mind so many times before, it'd have been blown now.

 

[Israfel]

I suppose that's a compliment so, thank you, I think. :lol:

 

[Dead_Alfadur]

To me, the sad part about this is that I can see why there is so much mediocrity in fafiction in general. I'm not sure, but most of the stories that seem to take, and thus become, the 'Middle'(mediocre) fanfics are coming from us in the US. The reason that I say this is that while a chosen few from overseas(read: those on this forum) can master most of the American slang and sentence construction, it is somewhat easy to differentiate those works that are from other English speaking nations from their American counterparts.

As to why this is of importance to the quality of stories in general, it seems that there is a war in in the US between Society and Culture. Being fresh-faced and starry-eyed out of high school, I can say that there is no drive, no spark in my, and younger, generations to conect with art in all it's forms. From the morally questioning poems of Robert Frost, to the exquisite beauty of a Picasso painting. We were taught from an early age by watching or parents run like beheaded chickens that the most important things in life are money and status. Both of which are atributed to societal, not cultural, drives.

That seemed to be why there was so much tension and angst in my schools growing up. Here were al these minds, moulded since infancy, that just wanted to learn the basics and nothing more. Nothing to dostract them from being societally fruitfull. They knew not how to write out their anger, paint there sorrows, or enjoy the feeling of the spring rain as it pelts your upturned face. They only know vulgarities and violece when they are angered. Crude and sexist remarks when they feel atraction. Thus, they live mediocrity.

But then there are those who chose to take to the web, and cling to it like it is the last bastion of their culturally deprived lives(for some it is). This is what is truly sadening. These drabbles, to some, can be considered the last memoirs of their souls in that they are pouring out their hearts in an atempt to gain back that which has been lost; their Identity.

Jeez, it felt good getting my fears for my generations future off my chest. That is my opinion on the mediocrity of fanfiction in general.

Hope you understand these fears.

 

[Israfel]

Oh believe me I do, I fear for what shall happen when this latest generation makes its way from the schoolyards of America to the work force, honestly it seems that I have yet to see any child or teenager in this up and coming generation that has anything even approaching class or even a decent set of morals. With the advent of such things as rap, MTV, recent movies, and 'reality' shows this latest generation has been brought up from birth to think that money is the most important thing and the more money you have the happier you'll be, that women are merely objects to be used to satisfy the mens carnal desires and then be thrown away like so much garbage, and that they need not show respect to anyone or anything so as to 'rebel' against 'authority' or whatever other force they feel opresses their right to express their 'individuality', which really isn't individuality at all but something that has been done millions of times before their grandfathers were even born and will continue to be done long after they are dead making their supposed 'rebellion' little more than another link in a long chain of disrespect. Really it is almost laughable because by trying to seperate themselves from those around them and be 'unique' all they are really doing is making themselves just like everyone else, I saw a t-shirt the other day that I think adequately sums it up "You're unique, just like everybody else."

 

[Dead_Alfadur]

Shoot, with all these wannabe gangsters with their "Stop Snitchin" t-shirts, it reminds me of the code of "Omerte"(sp?). Wow! All you young African Americans, in your bid to seperate yourselfs from the white community, are copying the work of Italian Americans from the first half of the previous century! As you said, your unique like everyone else.

 

[Israfel]

Ugh, don't even get me started about the black youth of today, the advent of the 'ghangsta' phenomena is pretty much the sign of the apocalypse in my opinion, when those kind of morals can be held as something to be proud about then it's time to have another big flood and just start over form scratch. I went to see the movie "Inside Man" yesterday and in one point of the movie you see the protaganist sitting with this young black boy playing a PSP, he asks to see it for a second and sees the game the kid is playing and the kid tells him how to play "You get points for stealing rides, shooting niggers, and selling cocaine. You lose points for getting your ride jacked, getting shot, or getting your coke stolen." The protagonist just kind of stares at him for a second before responding "We should get you back to your father, I really need to talk to him about this game." I think that about sums up the way America's black youth are going right now.

 

[A Curious Stranger]

Here Here! I'm still in high school, but I'm luckily a senior, and I can't help but be dissapointed with society. I grew up in Korea getting the majority of my morals and values there and now that I compare my view to others', I can't help but to wonder what went wrong with society.

The answer seems to be everything. It ranges from the mindless TV which the new generation seems to feed on like a newborn to his mother to the dangerous drug and attention seeking habits others have. Rap, MTV, and Reality shows have contributed to society's fall heavily.

Nowadays, all of our cultural aspects are rather lacking. All of our new books aren't masterpieces, but are rather plot-driven stories designed to just make money. There are virtually no orginal movie ideas, and no noteworthy paintings or poems have been made. Really, all there are are the Gangsta rap songs, and the Emo or heavy Rock bands. It's dissapointing because there is no imagination anymore. The little memoirs online are full of crap. People don't know how to express themselves anymore.

People also seem to think that swearing is a neccesity in anonymous forums and they try to insult just about everything they can think of.

Morals are going downhill along with just about every good thing in this world. Really, it's just a matter of time until we all wipe ourselves out and really, as morbid as it is, I can't help but to think that the world will actually prosper from this. All I can hope for is a cultural revival like the world Renaissance that took place before.