Evangelion Thoughts on Eva

[Watashiwa]

Okay, so I've been thinking about the mechanics behind Evangelion recently. Not just how the Evas work, but how the series was put together. It's actually pretty subtle, like how we find out about how Second Impact is presented by the masses (the movie Shinji goes to when he runs away the first time) and so on.

This is a public area for me to get some thoughts out that may or may not show up in fanfiction. If you've got some pithy statements or realizations about how the series works then feel free to add them. If you've got evidence or arguments to prove/disprove/support/etc. something here, I'd appreciate you adding them.

--Something so totally obvious that I never picked up on it: the Evas are Angels. They were generated from Angel tissue (ADAM was the basis for all Angels save Unit 01, which was Lilith based), then lobotomized and cybernetized. The Evas are cyborg Angels with brain damage. Holy shit.

--The above leads to the following: it is very unlikely that Eva Units 02 or 00 could cause a Third Impact event by coming into contact with Lilith. Evidence in the series suggests that only by absorbing ADAM can an Angel cause 3I. This begs the question: could Unit 01 cause a Third Impact event by coming into contact with Lilith? Unlikely, but an interesting thought.

--The Red Earth ceremony used in EoE was likely intended to generate an Anti-A.T. Field that would result in a SEELE controlled Third Impact. This would be enacted by using Unit 01 to represent Lilith and the MP Evas as ADAM, overloading their cores with the Lances in such a way that the collapsing A.T. Field of each Unit reacts with the others. Rei-Lilith's ascendance stopped that Impact by removing Unit 01 from it's place.

--Another interesting detail: Second Impact was caused by the Lance of Longinus and human DNA being brought into contact with ADAM. Or something involing the Lancea and human DNA. Anywway, Kaworu Nagisa is the Angel of Free Will, possessing ADAM's soul and a human form. Oh, and he was born on the day of Second Impact. Hypothesis: Kaworu was generated by that experiment, and thus is the second survivor of 2I to be at Ground Zero.

---It's additionally possible that Kaworu was the "Giant of Light" that caused 2I, before reverting to human form. Not likely but...

--Pure fanwankery, but wasn't Shinji born nine months after Second Impact? This opens the possibility that Shinji was conceived during the Impact.

--Lastly, before my brain dies from remembering my theories, weren't the Evas created from a mixture of human and Angel DNA? Whose? Was it the same person's? Grunt suggested that the spirit of whoever is inside the Eva was the human donor. Possible, I suppose. I had a more fanwank inspired theory. Given that we know Yui designed the Evas, and that she loved Shinji AND that she wanted to see humanity leave something behind that would last for all time, I wonder if she used Shinji's DNA as the base for all Evas? Her own is far more likely, but I can't help but wonder...

 

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

I've always thought of Second Impact as a form of human sacrifice-The largest ever done. Three billion people's souls, their collapsing AT Fields may have created the conditions needed for Eva pilots to be born.

A French anthropologist called Levi-Strauss theorized that cultural heroes are defined as the arbiters of life and death, and in order to become heroes they much sacrifice part their life, in a literal or metaphorical sense, for the good of their culture or community to become said heroes. That is, they replace part of their life with death to gain power over them both. Just seems to work well for Eva.

 

[bronquites]

Here's a thought: how do the Evas get from inside the Nerv pyramid to the city surface?

Take for instance Episode 1, when Misato took Shinji from the surface to the Geofront, the only connections visible between the geofront surface to the city were monorail lines and those crossed the dome in a left-right direction, not the expected up-down fashion.

 

[toraneko]

--Something so totally obvious that I never picked up on it: the Evas are Angels.? They were generated from Angel tissue (ADAM was the basis for all Angels save Unit 01, which was Lilith based), then lobotomized and cybernetized.? The Evas are cyborg Angels with brain damage.

They were also prevented from growing full S2 organs, so that they could be better controlled.
Also, Evangelions lack souls, thus why they need pilots.

However, Unit 01 was not based even in part upon Lilith's DNA. If it was, it'd look human, rather than like a mutant copy of Adam.

--The above leads to the following: it is very unlikely that Eva Units 02 or 00 could cause a Third Impact event by coming into contact with Lilith.? Evidence in the series suggests that only by absorbing ADAM can an Angel cause 3I.? This begs the question: could Unit 01 cause a Third Impact event by coming into contact with Lilith?

They could, theoretically, cause an Impact (as did 01), if they had an intact S2 core and a living consciousness.

Lilith is essentially human, so contact between her and any other Lilith-based lifeform would not likely cause an Impact.

Supplementary material (I believe Israfel posted it, way back when) indicates that Lilith is not an Angel, nor do things involving her work the same way that they do with Adamites.

--The Red Earth ceremony used in EoE was likely intended to generate an Anti-A.T. Field that would result in a SEELE controlled Third Impact.? This would be enacted by using Unit 01 to represent Lilith and the MP Evas as ADAM, overloading their cores with the Lances in such a way that the collapsing A.T. Field of each Unit reacts with the others. Rei-Lilith's ascendance stopped that Impact by removing Unit 01 from it's place.

Considering the above, Unit 01 was standing in for Adam, and the Mass Production Units were standing in for enough Angels to fill out the Sephirot.

Not really sure what place Rei had in the mess, considering she was Lilith at the time.
Earlier, Tabris was distraught at finding that it was Lilith held in Terminal Dogma rather than Adam, indicating that the Angels do not want to merge with Lilith. This means that the Adam+Lilith Impact is something that SEELE is trying to do, rather than something either Adam or Lilith actually wants.
Signs point to the Angels merely having their senses confused by Lilith's presence, and thus attacking NERV by mistake.

Hell, even the name of Lilith indicates a very "Do Not Want" attitude towards her by the Adamites.

--Another interesting detail: Second Impact was caused by the Lance of Longinus and human DNA being brought into contact with ADAM.? Or something involing the Lancea and human DNA.? Anywway, Kaworu Nagisa is the Angel of Free Will, possessing ADAM's soul and a human form.? Oh, and he was born on the day of Second Impact.? Hypothesis: Kaworu was generated by that experiment, and thus is the second survivor of 2I to be at Ground Zero.

Adam's explosion was just that, an explosion. He was a being primarily made of energy (note that the Angels were like this, too; they were described as being made of "energy wavelengths"). The Lance forced him to explode and reverted him to embryo form, where SEELE's whitecoats kept him on ice until the end.

More implicit is that Kaworu/Tabris' records were fabricated by SEELE, and that he was born not from the explosion of Adam, but from the explosion of Unit 04 and its prototype artificial S2 engine.

--Lastly, before my brain dies from remembering my theories, weren't the Evas created from a mixture of human and Angel DNA?

The only human DNA in the Evangelions is the Pilots', and possibly the LCL in the entry plugs.

Here's a thought: how do the Evas get from inside the Nerv pyramid to the city surface?

This is shown a bit more clearly in the first Rebuild movie. There are launch catapults - essentially vertical mag-lev trains, or Eva-shooting railguns - that connect NERV to the surface.

 

[Watashiwa]

--Heh. Sorry toraneko, check episode...21, I think? The one where it shows Yui getting absorbed. Unit 01 is shown being created, and it's being generated from Lilith's cross.

--Lilith apparently has an interesting relationship with ADAM. A game that came out a few years ago, claiming to be based on interviews with Anno and the rest of the creative team, said that billions of years ago an alien race called the First Ancestral Race seeded the universe with life. There were two kinds of pods sent out, "White Moons" containing ADAM-type aliens that generated Angel based life and "Black Moons"" that contained Lilith type aliens that generated human and terrestrial life.

The problem is that only one of each was supposed to land on a planet. Earth was unfortunate enough to get both. For whatever reason, Lilith became dominant and ADAM went into hibernation.

Now, nothing in the main series that supports this. It's equally possible that Lilith is in fact a being that split off from ADAM which destabilized ADAM to the point where additional Angels needed to be created to make up for the split.

--What I was saying about the Red Earth Ceremony is that two separate Third Impacts were going on at the same time--SEELE's and Gendo's. SEELE was using a derivative based on the Evas, and Gendo was using ADAM and Lilith, with Rei as the controlling factor. Rei's version of 3I took precedence, and she literally pulled Unit 01 out of SEELE's version to give Shinji control.

--In the manga, Kaworu claims he is capable of initiating a Third Impact with Lilith--but didn't want to because it would mean a loss of Free Will. It is possible that SEELE lied, or were incorrect, note.

Oh, and he also kissed Shinji. Freak. :no:

 

[bronquites]

Here's a thought: how do the Evas get from inside the Nerv pyramid to the city surface?

This is shown a bit more clearly in the first Rebuild movie. There are launch catapults - essentially vertical mag-lev trains, or Eva-shooting railguns - that connect NERV to the surface.

Perhaps I didn't explain it well.
In the scenes with Unit 01 launching in Rebuild 1:11 (and the series as well as far as I remember) there are no rails connecting the area surrounding the Nerv Pyramid to the city above. That's the point. I know that the Eva goes on the rails like a train but there seems to be some parts of the track missing.

Not having tracks between the geofront and the city is like building a rail line over a river, not putting a bridge over it and hoping the train goes fast enough not to get wet.

 

[toraneko]

--Heh. Sorry toraneko, check episode...21, I think?? The one where it shows Yui getting absorbed.? Unit 01 is shown being created, and it's being generated from Lilith's cross.

I'll have to double-check on my friend's DVDs. I never could pony up enough cash to get the series at the fucking insane prices the legal distrubutors charged.

(supplementary material)
Now, nothing in the main series that supports this.

I don't recall anything that denies it, either. I guess that leaves us at roughly equal footing.

However, I never saw any contradictions between what I read and what I saw.

--What I was saying about the Red Earth Ceremony is that two separate Third Impacts were going on at the same time--SEELE's and Gendo's. SEELE was using a derivative based on the Evas, and Gendo was using ADAM and Lilith, with Rei as the controlling factor.á Rei's version of 3I took precedence, and she literally pulled Unit 01 out of SEELE's version to give Shinji control.

We differ on the details.

I would argue that SEELE was also intending to use Rei as Lilith for their version of the Ceremony. So, it's more likely that three versions of the ceremony were in progress: Gendo's "(me + Adam) + Rei" version, SEELE's "Eva-01 + MP Evas + LilithRei = World Of Tang + Gods Are We" version, and Rei's version, whatever that entails.

--In the manga, Kaworu claims he is capable of initiating a Third Impact with Lilith--but didn't want to because it would mean a loss of Free Will. It is possible that SEELE lied, or were incorrect, note.

Well, I didn't say he wasn't capable of merging with Lilith to cause an Impact, just that he didn't want to do it that way.