Naruto Uchiha Obito

[Knyght]

So now that Obito's dead (for realsies) and his part in the plot is finally over, what did people think of him in the end?

About Tobi being Obito, his motivation to change the world, all the crap he did as a villain, whether he should have been redeemed etc. I'm just wondering what people think of all the twists and turns we took with him now that we ain't gonna have him thrown in our faces anymore.

Like him, hate him, don't care either way?

 

[KurokamiDG]

Tobi was a great character. He was such an evil badass that he was pretty much playing all of the main players for years and he was fucking invulnerable. It's like he was the best troll in Naruto, before and after he got serious.

If Kishi would've kept Tobi as a scheming megalomaniac troll that just wants to watch the old world burn while he builds his own utopia on its ashes, then I would've been all for it.

However, when Tobi was revealed to be Obito...yeah, I just couldn't get into it. He had the same abilities and everything but...his reasoning was to weak for me to actually care. He lost all of what made him a good antagonist as soon as he said 'You let Rin die.'

I lost interest in him. And quite frankly I pity him for being the foil to Naruto that went down such a dark path because his crush was killed.

It kinda pisses me off that he pretty much got a 'get out of jail free!' card with Rin too, but this is a Kishi shounen where Naruto thinks the person that is responsible for killing his family and his bad childhood is the most awesome person EVAR, so meh.

 

[Altered Nova]

I would have liked him better as a genuine anti-villain, honestly. Dude talked the talk about wanting to fix the world and usher in a utopia where everyone will be happy and peace will be enforced by genjutsu, but he went around personally committing genocide and enslaving people and shit. Nothing was too nasty to be off limits to him. If he'd kept some actual moral standards while plotting his world domination instead of eagerly becoming Ninja Hitler than he would have been far more interesting because there would have been some legitimate doubt as to whether his worldview was really wrong. And it would have made his redemption a lot easier to swallow if we'd seen some hints of decency in him before Naruto got to him.

 

[jakkuzarippa]

Agree with most of what Kurokami said.


Tobi was great. Psychotic villain with no sense of order or predictability? Hell yes.

When the reveal turned out to be Obito, I was put off big time. Especially since there are so many other ninja who've gone through equally bad or worse shit in the Narutoverse and didn't end up like Obito. Newsflash: Almost every shinobi's past is a clusterfuck of pain and loss. Get off your high horse Obito.

Honestly, Obito was the definition of lame. If the plot was determined to have an Uchiha villain, at the very least they should have stuck with solely Madara all the way.

The ending felt like pure bullshit as well. Obito was single-handedly responsible for EVERY single tragedy in Naruto's life (Parents, kyuubi, the uchiha debacle, Konoha's destruction, comrades dying in the 4th war) and he gets to pull the tragic hero bit at the end? Kishi, if you're gonna troll your readers, try harder.

 

[TC_Hazard]

When the reveal turned out to be Obito, I was put off big time. Especially since there are so many other ninja who've gone through equally bad or worse shit in the Narutoverse and didn't end up like Obito. Newsflash: Almost every shinobi's past is a clusterfuck of pain and loss. Get off your high horse Obito.

... that's the point?

Obito has never been about "I have it worse than everyone" or some crap like that. Obito has been about "Everyone has it bad and this world sucks".

He's completely right there.

Obito is ultimately a victim of the ninja system whose loss of faith in the world causes him to become incredibly nihilistic. He can do horrible things because he barely gives a crap about the current world.

At the same time, because he abandoned his sense of self to become Madara, he required validation from his past self (Naruto). Honestly, I like him better than some random madman, though I'm probably in the minority.

 

[13ry4n]

As Tobi I was both interested and annoyed. Interested because this guy was chess master of the highest order. Annoyed because he was an example of the sharinghax and the uchiha power creep.

As Obito I extracted many hours of entertainment from going back and reading all of his lines in Linkara's superboy prime voice.

 

[daosys]

I always wanted for Naruto to become like TObito, don't know why...

 

[TC_Hazard]

I always wanted for Naruto to become like TObito, don't know why...

Maybe because they are already similar.

Naruto and Obito. Hell, Naruto and Madara are similar.

 

[KurokamiDG]

Mist of the significant male character is a foil to Naruto. So it's a given that they're similar.

 

[douter]

If Tobi had actually turned out be Madara all along, it would have been quite awesome.

 

[thecuiy]

I... don't know how I feel about Obito. Honestly I'm fine with how Naruto forgave him as, in another post I can't find, Obito didn't 'fall' to the dark side. Madara tied an anchor to his ankle and chucked him off then when Obito climbed back up, kicked him back down for the lolz. I like how Obito is basically who Naruto could have been if he lost his way.

On the other hand, I don't like how Obito got a free pass for all the shit he did and got to be with Rin. I don't like how Obito's motivation was portrayed, making it look like it was just a massive hissy fit cause Rin died. And even though I understand it, I don't like how Obito more or less turned into Ninja-Hitler without any regrets.

Overall I think I like Obito but there are things that could have been better.

 

[Banach87]

On the other hand, I don't like how Obito got a free pass for all the shit he did and got to be with Rin. I don't like how Obito's motivation was portrayed, making it look like it was just a massive hissy fit cause Rin died. And even though I understand it, I don't like how Obito more or less turned into Ninja-Hitler without any regrets.

Thing is, the way Kishi wrote it, every bad thing 'Obito' did could be blamed either on the seal Madara placed on him, or on the bizarre Spiral Zetsu/Tobi persona (which by the way is never really explained, but the way it took control of Yamato hints that this was most likely the case).

In other words, as with many other villains in the story, Kishi makes it look like they're not fully to blame (see Uchiha massacre, Nagato, Kabuto. On the other hand Kisame's 'redemption' was awesome and I wish we had more characters that stuck to their ideals like he did). This of course works well if used sparingly, but Kishi insisted on having Danzo/Madara/Black Zetsu be in some way behind every bad thing that ever happened.

 

[nintendokid]

I personally really liked Obito. I think so much of the hate he gets is because he's an Uchiha, but I think it worked perfectly. The story, the entire story, was basically the struggle that people face in this crapsack world that's been filled with war from basically the moment men were born. And every major character in this story, and specifially in Naruto's life, were a link in the chain. And there's been an overarching theme where everyone is struggling to make the world a place that they can exist but face opposition in how they should do it. Madara was someone who originally thought they could make a safe haven and find peace but slowly began to lose faith and decided to rewrite the world into his own ideal. And he passed that dream on down to Obito who in turned passed it down to Nagato and then Sasuke. Their goal was to fix the world by smashing it to bits and rebuilding it.

Then you have Hashirama who carried on his original dream of ending the cycle of violence by trying to repair the damage and uniting people. He passed his teachings down to Sarutobi who passed it on to Yahiko and then ultimately Naruto.

Neither side is wrong: their world is filled with pain and violence. Its like a disease ravaging a body. Madara's cure is to cut off the infected parts while Hashirama tried to cure them. Both are valid approaches, but each one has its problems. Obito's genjutsu might very well have provided everyone peace at the cost of their freewill. Naruto wanted to give people the option to choose their future while showing them what their future could be.

 

[Altered Nova]

I would have loved Obito if three things about him would have been different.

One: He wasn't brainwashed by Madara.

Two He stuck to his guns. In it's own crazy way, the Infinite Tsukuyomi really was kind of a noble idea. A peaceful world where everyone is happy? No more fear, no more hatred, no more grief, no more violence. It's literally heaven on earth. Sure it sucks to lose your free will, but I bet there are literally billions of people in this world who would happily make that trade in a second - starving children, the sick and dying, slaves, victims of extreme poverty, etc. Large parts of this world are pretty fucked up places and there are lots of people in hopeless situations. Plus it's not like the Infinite Tsukuyomi has to last forever. You could use it to redistribute wealth, eliminate longstanding grudges and debts, teach everyone how to understand each other (maybe teach everyone in the illusion how to use Ninshuu?). Then release them once they are all on equal footing and have learned how to get along so they can rebuild a better *real* society together. It would be really interesting to have a villain that truly is trying to fix the broken world rather than just using utopia as an excuse to see his dead crush again and rule the world.

Three: He didn't completely throw away his ideals and morals and eagerly turn into Ninja Hitler. Obito would have been a lot more sympathetic if he didn't go around starting civil wars and sicking giant monsters on cities and genociding entire clans. Honestly I don't think a solid reason was every even given for all those atrocities he committed, he apparently just did them for shits and giggles. His cruelty and brutality really made him come across more as a giant evil hypocrite rather than a Well-Intentioned Extremist.

 

[goldenarms]

I would have loved Obito if three things about him would have been different.

One: He wasn't brainwashed by Madara.

Two He stuck to his guns. In it's own crazy way, the Infinite Tsukuyomi really was kind of a noble idea. A peaceful world where everyone is happy? No more fear, no more hatred, no more grief, no more violence. It's literally heaven on earth. Sure it sucks to lose your free will, but I bet there are literally billions of people in this world who would happily make that trade in a second - starving children, the sick and dying, slaves, victims of extreme poverty, etc. Large parts of this world are pretty fucked up places and there are lots of people in hopeless situations. Plus it's not like the Infinite Tsukuyomi has to last forever. You could use it to redistribute wealth, eliminate longstanding grudges and debts, teach everyone how to understand each other (maybe teach everyone in the illusion how to use Ninshuu?). Then release them once they are all on equal footing and have learned how to get along so they can rebuild a better *real* society together. It would be really interesting to have a villain that truly is trying to fix the broken world rather than just using utopia as an excuse to see his dead crush again and rule the world.

Three: He didn't completely throw away his ideals and morals and eagerly turn into Ninja Hitler. Obito would have been a lot more sympathetic if he didn't go around starting civil wars and sicking giant monsters on cities and genociding entire clans. Honestly I don't think a solid reason was every even given for all those atrocities he committed, he apparently just did them for shits and giggles. His cruelty and brutality really made him come across more as a giant evil hypocrite rather than a Well-Intentioned Extremist.

Well, that was basically handwaved by the unique structure of the Uchiha brain, which makes "emotionally volatile" sound like a sedative in comparison.

Not that I think it was okay, of course, for him to completely 180 just because the girl he was crushing hard on died. He went from moody lovestruck teen to homicidal sociopath in 3.4 seconds, and then played the "Tobi is a good boy" role for some time in his own organization. Had he been suffering from dissociative identity disorder, it wouuld have worked well, but instead, he was a complete monster for no good reason. Not even the promise of the Infinite Mangekyo could excuse such wanton nihilism.

 

[13ry4n]

Something that gets me is people saying Obito is a 'foil' to Naruto. Which I think is stupid for several reasons. Not the least of which is that Obito had access to support systems that Naruto did not. Like, you know, an entire clan he could call upon (and you better fucking believe the Uchiha clan would look after it's own). He also didn't have to deal with the amount of emotional neglect.

Another thing is that Naruto ( and by extension the manga) had the balls to act like Obito's stupid sacrifice somehow absolved him of sins.

 

[goldenarms]

Something that gets me is people saying Obito is a 'foil' to Naruto. Which I think is stupid for several reasons. Not the least of which is that Obito had uaccess to support systems that Naruto did not. Like, you know, an entire clan he could call upon (and you better fucking believe the Uchiha clan would look after it's own). He also didn't have to deal with the amount of emotional neglect.

Another thing is that Naruto ( and by extension the manga) had the balls to act like Obito's stupid sacrifice somehow absolved him of sins.

Acts 3:19: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (KJV)

And a biblical breakdown by someone far more qualified than I:

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Repent ye therefore,.... The Ethiopic version adds, "and be baptized"; see Gill on Acts 2:38,

and be converted. The apostle's sense is, repent of the sin of crucifying Christ, which is what he had been charging them with, and turn unto him, and acknowledge him as the Messiah; receive his doctrines, and submit to his ordinances; externally reform in life and conversation, and bring forth fruits meet for repentance, such as will show it to be true and genuine:

that your sins may be blotted out; or forgiven, see Psalm 51:9. Not that repentance and reformation procure the pardon of sin, or are the causes of it, for forgiveness is entirely owing to the free grace of God, and blood of Christ; but inasmuch as that is only manifested and applied to repenting and converted sinners; and who are encouraged to repent, and turn to the Lord from the promise of pardon; it is incumbent on them, and is their interest so to do, that they may have a discovery of the remission of their sins by the blood of Christ. Though no other repentance and conversion may be here meant than an external one; and the blotting out of sin, and forgiveness of it, may intend no other than the removing a present calamity, or the averting a threatened judgment, or the deliverance of persons from national ruin, Exodus 32:32. These Jews had crucified the Lord of glory, and for this sin were threatened with miserable destruction; the apostle therefore exhorteth them to repentance for it, and to a conversion to the Messiah, that so when ruin should come upon their nation, they might be delivered from the general calamity; when it would be terrible times to the unbelieving and impenitent Jews, but times of refreshment, ease, peace, and rest from persecution, to the believers, as is next expressed.

When the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; or "that the times of refreshing may come", as the Syriac version; either seasons of spiritual refreshment, joy, and peace, through the great and precious promises of the Gospel, and by the application of the blood and righteousness of Christ, to such penitent and converted sinners; which refreshment and comfort come from the Lord, and are accompanied with his gracious presence: or else seasons of rest, and deliverance from the violent heat of persecution; which was the case of the saints at the destruction of Jerusalem; they were not only saved from that ruin, but delivered from the wrath of their most implacable enemies. The Ethiopic version renders it, "and the day of mercy shall come from the presence of the Lord", repenting sinners find mercy; and a discovery of pardon is a time of mercy; and when God grants this, he affords his presence. The Jews call the world to come a time of refreshment; and say (b ),

"better is one hour , "of refreshment", in the world to come, than the whole life of this world.''

(b ) Pirke Abot, c. 4. sect. 17.

 

[13ry4n]

Y-Yeah that's certainly a bible quote and an analysis of said quote. I'm not entirely certain what your point is Golden. I mean beyond that Naruto is ninja Jesus and that absolution is not the same thing as forgiveness.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

The main problem, of course, is that Obito didn't really repent. He never expressed awareness of his errors, or remorse about the suffering he caused.
Even his actions against Madara and Kaguya looked more like he didn't want them to win then him trying to avoid others making his own mistake.

Obito was Sasuke's foil, not Naruto's

 

[thecuiy]

Well, Obito is basically a Naruto that decided to walk down the same path as Sasuke.

 

[H-Man]

So he's a fanfic version of Naruto?

 

[ankokudaishogun]

So he's a fanfic version of Naruto?

Pretty much. Except he's even more pathetic, as he wasn't even fully convinced of his path

 

[Yorae Rasante]

The Infinite Tsukiyomi reminded me so much of one of the Reasons in SMT3:Nocturne, Musubi, or at least how I understood it... But, the person on there that had it was an asshole from the beginning for me, so the change was much less abrupt.
Still no idea in what the bloodline purges and the Uchiha clan killing helped Obito/Black Zetsu in the end though.

 

[thecuiy]

I liked the Obito v Naruto, grey v grey struggle. It was about whether to run away to a blissful delusion and give up on the future or to toil and struggle for an uncertain future, something I'm sure alot of people could relate with. Then black zetsu had to come in and make a clear black v white, pun intended.

Kishi plz.

 

[Banach87]

I liked the Obito v Naruto, grey v grey struggle. It was about whether to run away to a blissful delusion and give up on the future or to toil and struggle for an uncertain future, something I'm sure alot of people could relate with. Then black zetsu had to come in and make a clear black v white, pun intended.

Kishi plz.

I don't think Obito was any more an example of this struggle than Madara. Both came from a world of constant strife, found something they wanted to protect and had that snatched away. The only thing Obito had was, maybe, being a little more relatable since we saw a little of his story in Kakashi Gaiden. The same could have been accomplished if Hashirama and Madara's storylines were fleshed out a little more and we got a more in depth look at Madara's interactions with Izuna. Hell Madara even got as much as a redemption as Obito in the end.

In any case I think after the reveal Tobi=Obito he lost all relevance/uniqueness to the storyline (ridiculous battles notwithstanding).