"Ultimate Scarlet Spiders" - An Ultimate Spiderman AU

DarkDragons

Well-Known Member
#1

Been reading Peter's Pre-Ultimatum Spiderman run and I've just had this plot bunny come into my head, but alas it's hard for me to think of anything past the initial idea. Therefore, I thought I might share it with you all.

It’s an AU-verse of Ultimate Spiderman, based on the premise "What If Peter Parker and Jessica Drew were actual twins?".

The main point of divergence would naturally be, that instead of being an unwitting Donor + Gender swapped Clone that they were in canon. Peter Parker and Jessica Drew are actual twins who got their powers from being bitten by a spider (Doesn't have to be the same one) that day.

Individually, they are still called Spiderman and Spiderwoman, but due to the fact that Jess designed their superhero outfits to be the same (In no small part due to lack of originality on her part) they are both called the “Scarlet Spiders” (Think of Peter and Jess becoming the Ultimate version of these guys.) by the general public.

I think it would be interesting to see Jessica and Peter interact as an actual brother and sister, considering they didn't interact much apart from the occasional team-up and especially now as Jessica has had her past completely re-written.

Also, maybe somewhere down the line, when Miles discovers his powers and has a go at the hero gig, he could join up with the two.

Thoughts?
 
#2
Would Jessica have ignored that burglar who would eventually go onto kill Uncle Ben like Peter did?

Cause that would certainly change the dynamic of things in the long run. Unless you had Jess elsewhere at the time. Like say, she ran after Peter after he and Uncle Ben had his argument.
 

scriviner

Well-Known Member
#3
I actually rather like this idea, but we do have to deal specifically with "what changes".

In this case, perhaps the burglar wasn't stopped not because Peter decided to be an ass and not stop the guy, but perhaps he and Jess were arguing about what they would do right after getting screwed over by the wrestling thing. This makes it so they BOTH feel guilty about not stopping the guy. I'm also kind of seeing Jessica in this case being the more impulsive one and we may end up having to have Pete stop her from killing the guy when they catch up to him.
 

DarkDragons

Well-Known Member
#4
Yeah, that's always been one of my bigger problems; I have an idea (good or bad) pop into my head, but fleshing things out, well that’s were things become problematic.
 

DarkDragons

Well-Known Member
#5
scriviner said:
I actually rather like this idea, but we do have to deal specifically with "what changes".

In this case, perhaps the burglar wasn't stopped not because Peter decided to be an ass and not stop the guy, but perhaps he and Jess were arguing about what they would do right after getting screwed over by the wrestling thing. This makes it so they BOTH feel guilty about not stopping the guy. I'm also kind of seeing Jessica in this case being the more impulsive one and we may end up having to have Pete stop her from killing the guy when they catch up to him.
That sounds good; I like that idea of yours. It's far better than mine which admittedly didn't change things much with the original, with the exception that Jess finds out that he could have stopped the guy and blames Peter for not stopping the guy when he had the chance, souring their relationship and over time the two slowly reconcile as they come to terms with the event.

Yeah, that's always been one of my bigger problems; I have an idea (good or bad) pop into my head, but fleshing things out, well that’s were things become problematic.

But, I’ve got a couple of things in my head (Symbiotes + Clone Saga) which I’ll type out before I forget.

I’m imagining that Peter and Jess’s relationship will be pretty strong throughout the story, but they'd have a few hiccups along the way, for example the two could argue or at the worst come to blows (Black Suit!Spiderman vs Spiderwoman?), when Peter (or if you want to twist things a bit, have Jessica be the one wearing it) is wearing the Venom Symbiote and the more negative aspects of his personality are amplified.

While we’re on the topic of Symbiotes, it’s entirely possible that Carnage could be prevented from killing the Original Gwen Stacy, as Peter or Jess could be at home with Gwen and they manage to fight off the Carnage Symbiote before it has the chance to suck the life out of Gwen.

This, of course would be a pretty big change, in the grand scheme of things.

As for the Clone Saga, we can go in the direction of either simply creating an extra set of clones to replace Jess's role or expand on the Scorpion/Kaine/Tarantula trio.
 

Aarik

Well-Known Member
#6
...

Pete looks creepy in that costume.

Don't know why, though I figure they'd both make their own.

Depends on if they're the kind of twins who play up the twin thing, some actually hate it when people try to make them wear matching outfits.

EDIT: Maybe it's the way the lower spider legs that come in from the back accentuate his hips?
 

Deathwings

Well-Known Member
#7
Aarik said:
...

Pete looks creepy in that costume.

Don't know why, though I figure they'd both make their own.

Depends on if they're the kind of twins who play up the twin thing, some actually hate it when people try to make them wear matching outfits.

EDIT: Maybe it's the way the lower spider legs that come in from the back accentuate his hips?
His hips are far too feminine compared to his definitely masculine torso.


On another note : difference in powers, because the two of them being perfectly matched is boring.

First thing I though of was that, as a "female spider", Jess should definitely be physically superior to Peter. In exchange, Peter's Spider Sense would trump Jess' by a mile.
 

ankokudaishogun

Well-Known Member
#8
Jess would get a "sudden grow spurt", turning relatively(to Pete) big and athletic(for enhanced drama, have her realise she'll never be big-boobed)

Pete would get a much more precise, as well as sensible, spider-sense, and possibly either the ability to repel things(like May's) or to overcharge his sticky ability to Mark of Kaine levels.


Also, have the powers and relative changes develop over time after they pop-ups suddenly after the bite? Like, they get the powers but weak and they grow over, dunno, three months?
 

DarkDragons

Well-Known Member
#9
I agree that their powers should be similar yet different in certain aspects, like how in canon Peter had to build his Web-shooters while Jess had been genetically modified so that her web fluid came from her fingers.

As to why Peter’s legs look feminine, I think that’s just the artist’s style.

Now I’ve created a Google Docs file below, so if anyone wishes to contribute any ideas that they have, feel free to do so there. Course there's no problems discussing it here as well.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JqAti0lqaUivt00PZTVKk5ohCViI0rqpIx2sa6mccvE/edit?usp=sharing
 

Fellgrave

Well-Known Member
#10
Hmm... if they both build the webshooters like in canon, then why not have Jessica create a formula that contains a paralytic contact poison.
Hmm... I'd give Jessica better agility and flexibility, while Peter should have better strength.
Hmm... Peter's Spider Sense should have greater range, as in it detects bullets and threats from further away, but Jessica's should be more effective, allowing her to predict an opponents moves.
Hmm... In addition to my first point, Peter's web's should be stronger and last longer, but Jessica's should be more malleable, allowing her to shape them into useful objects.
Hmm... that's it for now.
 
#11
Fellgrave said:
Hmm... if they both build the webshooters like in canon, then why not have Jessica create a formula that contains a paralytic contact poison.
Jessica develops Ben's paralysing stingers, Peter develops the impact webbing.
They have both(of course) but prefer to use their own inventions, as they fit their own styles better
Hmm... I'd give Jessica better agility and flexibility, while Peter should have better strength.
That's SO sexist of you!:no:
Jessica getting more physical power than Peter because SPIDER BIOLOGY seems more interesting to me, as it plays a (if well written) interesting contrast.
 

Fellgrave

Well-Known Member
#12
Fair enough. I meant based on human norms, she'd be more flexible to start, and if the Spider bite improves physical capabilities in a multiplicative fashion, then that will appear to be more enhanced for her than with Peter. I'd love to see her be the stronger character, but I was thinking mechanics-wise.
 

scriviner

Well-Known Member
#13
Going by Spidery-biology, I'd posit Jessica being the stronger one physically. Possibly have them matched as far as actual flexibility and general coordination/dexterity and agility goes, but Peter having the edge on a more refined Spider-Sense makes sense.

While I kind of like the general idea on a single person getting Spider powers off of a genetically engineered spider's bite, having two of them develop similar powers, while good should probably have a way to make it more interesting.

Perhaps the actual 'spider powers' in this case are a sort of heightened/modified bioelectric field. Something that lets them duplicate spider abilities. It's pretty much cannon that Spidey's wall-crawling involves molecular charge suppression. Kind of like a weird high-level static cling. If all the powers had a bioelectrical basis... such as the enhanced agility and coordination being brought about by a more efficient nervous system. Maybe all the additional electricity is able to supercharge their muscles to allow them to work well past the expected mechanical limits. With this as a sort of basis for 'spider powers' we can come up with a couple of additional possibilities for some variety, while still having the same common base.

Peter could still have the standard classic Spider-man powerset. Enhanced agility, strength and durability, wall crawling. The Spider Sense could be a bioelectric aura around himself that lets him know of any motion within its range. Jessica in contrast while getting the agility, strength and durability, stick to walls, but to slightly match up with the original Spiderwoman's powers even if just a bit, she can release her bioelectricity in non-lethal shocks, her version of a spider sting. I'd even go so far as to have her shocks make whoever she's just hit become more suggestible when they initially wake up. Perhaps she'd also have an electromagnetic repulsive ability that potentially could make her good at throwing things, but could also be used to let her boost her jumps in mid-air (sort of like a double-jump), but could potentially be mistaken for gliding.

With the contrasting power set, I'm also imagining Peter being the more cerebral one. So I'm imagining his more refined Spider Sense could also be tuned to trace electrical signals. Peter would make the web-shooters to make up for his lack of a ranged option, while Jessica might carry something like darts that she can charge with her sting and then repel away from her into her targets. She doesn't need to web-shooters quite like Peter does since she has her sort-of gliding ability, but I can't imagine Peter not giving her a set either.

Also, the outfit is most likely designed by her and specifically meant for her, which is why when they do finally go out, the cut looks all wrong on him and people think he might just be a particularly flat-chested women.

"I hope you're happy. They think we're calling us the Scarlet Spider girls."

"Well, what do you want me to do? Sew on a bigger cup on your outfit?"

"For starters!"
 
#14
So what would be their upper limit strength wise? According to this Strength Scale Spiderman's was round 20 tons while Spiderwoman was 7 tons. Should those numbers simply be switched around, or should we give them new upper limits?

Also, what about Pheromone Manipulation? I know some real life spiders secrete different types of pheromones, whenever it is for sexual purposes or even to use it as a form of mind control while hunting their prey.

Should that still be a Spiderwoman exclusive ability, or should Peter get his own Pheromone based ability?
 

scriviner

Well-Known Member
#15
RedSparrow210 said:
So what would be their upper limit strength wise? According to this Strength Scale Spiderman's was round 20 tons while Spiderwoman was 7 tons. Should those numbers simply be switched around, or should we give them new upper limits?

Also, what about Pheromone Manipulation? I know some real life spiders secrete different types of pheromones, whenever it is for sexual purposes or even to use it as a form of mind control while hunting their prey.

Should that still be a Spiderwoman exclusive ability, or should Peter get his own Pheromone based ability?
If I remember correctly the Ultimate Spider-man's upper limit for strength was lower than mainline Spidey's because he was younger and still growing. I can't recall exactly where, but Ultimate Spidey's strength range was around 5 tons lifting capacity. I'm thinking putting Peter at that level and putting Jessica at around 7 to 10 tons should be fine.

As for the Pheromone manipulation, it's really a weird fit with everything else. On the other hand, if we use the electromagnetic basis for spiderpowers per my previous post, perhaps it's not pheromonal, but there's a subtle part of their electromagnetic aura that can affect portions of other people's brains. In Jessica's case, she can crank it up to an attraction effect. Peter may not have it at all, or he could possibly have something more akin to the ability to trigger an arachnid response in people. Basically, unreasoning fear and loathing, even without any overt reason for it. This could even be part of the explanation for why people get so creeped out by Peter and Jameson's hostility towards him.
 
#16
That could work, though I would suggest making Peter's ability be more... subconcious compared to Jess's [who could be aware of her own and use it to her advantage] and perhaps working based on how he thinks others perceive him/Spiderman or something along those lines. [Unless that is what you mean]

E.g. Jameson + Spiderman get off to a bad start, which plants the seeds in Peter's subconciousness that Spiderman + Jameson = Bad and as Jameson's hate campaign gets underway, his subconciousness belief gets reinforced perpetuating the cycle. On the other hand the exact opposite is happening with the Peter side of things as he proves himself to be a useful emplyee to Jameson and as such, his subconciousness is equating Peter + Jameson = Good.

Speaking of character relationships, what would Peter and Jess's relationship be with other characters. By that would Jess be friends with MJ + Gwen or would she have her own clique?
 

scriviner

Well-Known Member
#17
RedSparrow210 said:
That could work, though I would suggest making Peter's ability be more... subconcious compared to Jess's [who could be aware of her own and use it to her advantage] and perhaps working based on how he thinks others perceive him/Spiderman or something along those lines. [Unless that is what you mean]

E.g. Jameson + Spiderman get off to a bad start, which plants the seeds in Peter's subconciousness that Spiderman + Jameson = Bad and as Jameson's hate campaign gets underway, his subconciousness belief gets reinforced perpetuating the cycle. On the other hand the exact opposite is happening with the Peter side of things as he proves himself to be a useful emplyee to Jameson and as such, his subconciousness is equating Peter + Jameson = Good.

Speaking of character relationships, what would Peter and Jess's relationship be with other characters. By that would Jess be friends with MJ + Gwen or would she have her own clique?
I agree on Pete being 'creepy' as Spidey. It's probably subconscious initially, but eventually he figures it out and refines it into something useful.

If we go with the Ult-verse where the Parkers are neighbors with MJ, then I can definitely see Jessica and MJ being best friends. Possibly with Jess recognizing and encouraging MJ's badly hidden crush on her brother. Jessica herself could possibly be the target of the affections of Peter's own best friend Harry Osborn.

... which makes for a REALLY interesting and messed up dynamic when the whole thing with the Norman osborn/Green Goblin comes out.

I do kind of tend to see the Parker twins as having more of a tendency to stick together. More due to Peter being stand-offish and a little isolated due to being highly intelligent. Jessica would be very bright as well, but I imagine unlike Peter who decided to retreat into academics to deal with the initial loss of his parents, Jess ended up turning outward, becoming quite friendly and vivacious. I am also imagining Peter is much less bullied compared to his canon counterparts because of Jessica's protection.

Regarding Peter's scary spider aura, I like the idea of it not being entirely under his control.

"Peter... tone it down. You're doing the scary spider face."

"... I have a 'scary spider face'?"

"Not that one. That's your 'baffled and confused' face. It's the one you use when MJ starts hitting on you."

"She doesn't hit on me!"

"There's the scary spider face!"
 
#18
If I remember correctly the Ultimate Spider-man's upper limit for strength was lower than mainline Spidey's because he was younger and still growing. I can't recall exactly where, but Ultimate Spidey's strength range was around 5 tons lifting capacity. I'm thinking putting Peter at that level and putting Jessica at around 7 to 10 tons should be fine.
Same in the 616: at the start Spidey was 10tons strong. Currently he's at 25.

I suggest to drop the pheromone\mind-mess part. Maybe as a late-blooming power for later storylines.

Also, Jess gets the bio-stinger, Pete gets May's repulsion ability?
 

scriviner

Well-Known Member
#19
ankokudaishogun said:
If I remember correctly the Ultimate Spider-man's upper limit for strength was lower than mainline Spidey's because he was younger and still growing. I can't recall exactly where, but Ultimate Spidey's strength range was around 5 tons lifting capacity. I'm thinking putting Peter at that level and putting Jessica at around 7 to 10 tons should be fine.
Same in the 616: at the start Spidey was 10tons strong. Currently he's at 25.

I suggest to drop the pheromone\mind-mess part. Maybe as a late-blooming power for later storylines.

Also, Jess gets the bio-stinger, Pete gets May's repulsion ability?
Well, it's not absolutely necessary for them to even out in that case. I'm perfectly fine with Jess getting the spider sting zappiness and Pete not actually getting anything. Well, if we really need to balance it, perhaps a stronger attraction ability? Perhaps his wall-crawling lets him stick harder than Jessica's does. Right after the Other storyline, Peter could make things stick to any part of his body (this seems to have become ignored since), but basically Pete could potentially have this right off the bat, whereas Jess can only stick with her hands and feet.

It doesn't need to be really blatant.

I'm also okay with the mind-messing as being later powers... or perhaps they're subconscious ones initially. They don't realize they're doing it at first, but later on learn how to refine and channel those abilities.
 

Fellgrave

Well-Known Member
#20
Actually, I have an idea. If we give them powers based off of Spiders, electric 'stings' excluded, then why not give Peter abilities similar to a Trapdoor spider? The webs he creates he can quickly turn into structures and tools. In nature the female spider is often possessing the deadlier bite and venom, so give Peter abilities based on spiders that don't possess such powerful venom. Heck, he could even skate across water like some spiders.
 
#21
Fellgrave said:
Actually, I have an idea. If we give them powers based off of Spiders, electric 'stings' excluded, then why not give Peter abilities similar to a Trapdoor spider? The webs he creates he can quickly turn into structures and tools. In nature the female spider is often possessing the deadlier bite and venom, so give Peter abilities based on spiders that don't possess such powerful venom. Heck, he could even skate across water like some spiders.
Perhaps, when he's more skilled at his webshaping, but let him start off with things like cocoons, shields, nets, those sorts of things. I'm 50/50 on the whole waterskating thing

My suggestion is that at first, Peter + Jess, have the classic Spiderman core powersets initally when they get bitten by the spider(s?) [Don't want to make them too OP to begin with].:-
  • Spider sense
  • Super strength
  • Above-human agility levels
  • Stick to walls
  • Webbing, artificial or natural
Though having them be creative in uses of their inital powerset's fine with me. But as they age and their hormones factor into things, they start manifesting their more unique advanced abilities.

Here's a list of Abilities that Spiderman has manifested over the years.

Alright, so how should things start off story wise? Keep it the same, but add Jessica as well? Or should there be an original twist?
 

scriviner

Well-Known Member
#22
RedSparrow210 said:
Fellgrave said:
Actually, I have an idea. If we give them powers based off of Spiders, electric 'stings' excluded, then why not give Peter abilities similar to a Trapdoor spider? The webs he creates he can quickly turn into structures and tools. In nature the female spider is often possessing the deadlier bite and venom, so give Peter abilities based on spiders that don't possess such powerful venom. Heck, he could even skate across water like some spiders.
Perhaps, when he's more skilled at his webshaping, but let him start off with things like cocoons, shields, nets, those sorts of things. I'm 50/50 on the whole waterskating thing

My suggestion is that at first, Peter + Jess, have the classic Spiderman core powersets initally when they get bitten by the spider(s?) [Don't want to make them too OP to begin with].:-
  • Spider sense
  • Super strength
  • Above-human agility levels
  • Stick to walls
  • Webbing, artificial or natural
Though having them be creative in uses of their inital powerset's fine with me. But as they age and their hormones factor into things, they start manifesting their more unique advanced abilities.

Here's a list of Abilities that Spiderman has manifested over the years.

Alright, so how should things start off story wise? Keep it the same, but add Jessica as well? Or should there be an original twist?
Personally, I'm all for having the butterflies kick in early. The absurdity of both of them getting bitten by the same spider or part of a group of genetically engineered supersoldier inducing spiders is a bit much, but it could still be plausible that they're both on the class trip, the spider gets Peter, he starts flailing around in pain, she tries to help him, they get tangled up in one another which results in the spider biting her as well.

Fast forward to the two of them discovering their abilities... I'm imagining them experimenting with their powers, Peter would probably be doing all sorts of tests and comparisons between their abilities. Jessica wants to let people know (or at least allow MJ to know).

In fact I'm thinking Jessica would be the first one to want to get out and start bounding around the city, having fun with it, while Peter desperately chases after her trying to make sure no one recognizes her. If anything, Peter would probably be the one to suggest that they put on disguises for these outings, but Jessica would be the one to design it, because as she'll bluntly tell Peter: "You have no sense of style."

"We can't wear these! They're ridiculously tight!"

"They're perfect! This way anyone looking at us is going to be too busy staring at our perfectly shaped asses to actually pay attention to what we really look like."

"I don't want people staring at my ass!"

"Well, it's gotten a lot improved since the spider bite."

"I don't want YOU staring at my ass!"

Cue laughter.
 

DarkDragons

Well-Known Member
#23
I’m assuming that by your characterization of the two, Jessica would be the one to suggest using the powers for their own benefit (the wrestling gig)? With Peter (Willingly or Reluctantly) going along with it until they both find out Uncle Ben died and later finding out that they could have prevented it, if they stopped the guy instead of ignoring him earlier in the day.

I like to think that, they don't go with the actual "Scarlet Spiders" gimmick, until after Uncle Ben's death, when they actually decide to become heroes, and the costumes they use for their wrestling career would be closer to how Peter looked when he wrestled in the Maguire Spiderman Movies.

 

scriviner

Well-Known Member
#24
DarkDragons said:
I’m assuming that by your characterization of the two, Jessica would be the one to suggest using the powers for their own benefit (the wrestling gig)? With Peter (Willingly or Reluctantly) going along with it until they both find out Uncle Ben died and later finding out that they could have prevented it, if they stopped the guy instead of ignoring him earlier in the day.

I like to think that, they don't go with the actual "Scarlet Spiders" gimmick, until after Uncle Ben's death, when they actually decide to become heroes, and the costumes they use for their wrestling career would be closer to how Peter looked when he wrestled in the Maguire Spiderman Movies.

I am thinking that it was definitely Peter who came up with this outfit. Resulting in Jessica's later insistence that she be in charge of all further costume related things.
 
#25
scriviner said:
DarkDragons said:
I’m assuming that by your characterization of the two, Jessica would be the one to suggest using the powers for their own benefit (the wrestling gig)? With Peter (Willingly or Reluctantly) going along with it until they both find out Uncle Ben died and later finding out that they could have prevented it, if they stopped the guy instead of ignoring him earlier in the day.

I like to think that, they don't go with the actual "Scarlet Spiders" gimmick, until after Uncle Ben's death, when they actually decide to become heroes, and the costumes they use for their wrestling career would be closer to how Peter looked when he wrestled in the Maguire Spiderman Movies.

I am thinking that it was definitely Peter who came up with this outfit. Resulting in Jessica's later insistence that she be in charge of all further costume related things.
I can probably imagine a scene in the story, in which Peter who has a book with pages full of sketches for their superhero outfit design, shows off a few of them (Let's say something along the line of these) only for Jess to reject them all over how horribly dated/bad they looked. Before just deciding to design something simple herself and coming up with their "scarlet spider" look for the both of them.
 
Top