Villainy in Disney

[Lord of Bones]

When exactly did villainy in Disney movies fall into the pile of suck that it is now? I mean, a comparison of old Disney animated movies with the new ones will show a different standard of evil. Disney villains such as Maleficent and the Evil Queen were remorselessly evil and quite terrifying, when compared to the likes of Jafar and Hades (singing? salesmen personalities?).

Seriously, what happened?

 

[SotF]

When exactly did villainy in Disney movies fall into the pile of suck that it is now? I mean, a comparison of old Disney animated movies with the new ones will show a different standard of evil. Disney villains such as Maleficent and the Evil Queen were remorselessly evil and quite terrifying, when compared to the likes of Jafar and Hades (singing? salesmen personalities?).

Seriously, what happened?

Jafar and Hades were still interesting villains. And they were on par with the older ones, neither are the blast the babies type and are the manipulators rather than the "Kill them all" type.

Disney's biggest failing is that they fell for their own hype, they believed anything with the Disney name on it would be good no matter the effort put into the storyline. That led to their seemingly endless barrage of crappy sequels they seem to be making.

The last one I found interesting of their animated ones was Atlantis (It's sequel was interesting as well, though I wish they'd been allowed to have the entire thing as it was part of a plan to rework Gargoyles again)

 

[Arkhe]

I suppose it's Disney trying to add a little 'angle' to their villains. A bit of 'pizaz', if you will. Not all were likable in their decision, I agree with that, but there were a few memorable ones.


Two recent Disney villains (sort-of) pleasantly come to mind...

Shan-Yu - Mulan
This guy is like the terminator of the Disney villlains. Not only does he retain the classic baby-punching (<- this is possibly literal) villain archetype, but he's got the wits and brute strength to back it, as well as an elite group at his beck and call! Honestly, Mulan and her rag-tag crew shouldn't have stood a chance!

and;

The Leviathan - Atlantis
While it isn't the main villain, its awesomeness comes with the deleted scene of the original prologue. Vikings vs Titanic Robot Sea Creature = pure classic. (Sorry, didn't find it on youtube)


I'd also give honourable mentions to Clayton (Tarzan) for creative villain death, Dr Drakken (Kim Possible) for "You think you're all that, but you're not!" and lastly to Scar (Lionking) just for this.

 

[akun50]

I think one of the main reasons villiany has fallen in Disney is two-fold:

1) Disney has managed to get a very strong "Any Age" and "Ages 7-12" sort of rating. This means that virtually everything that they intend to do has to be sandblasted down until it's kid friendly, or at least a PG rating.

Disney has probably been asked numerous times (by insane soccer moms who say they like Disney products, but probably hate them with an intensity of a thousand suns because they seem to promote the idea that children can grow up and do things on their own <_< ) to "tone down the violence" and probably something like "it would be nice if the bad guys were allowed to reform".

2) It's to make the villians easier to understand. When you start getting into things like racial hatred or political motivations, the villian becomes complex. And Disney villians have always been fairly easy to understand.

Manipulators and psychos are the most likely to seek power, while jerks are more likely to seek fame and riches. Vain people, like the Queen in Snow White are also easy to understand.

Shan-Yu was a power-hungry psycho, so he was limited to a terminator brain. Ingenious enough that he could survive and get to his goal, but then his brain shorted out.

 

[garedelyon]

We live in an age where giving a brat a smack on the arm is assault.

Villains CAN'T be scary anymore.

The queen/witch in snow white gave me nightmares when I was a kid, and the Angelica Huston in 'The Witches' movie, but I LOVED watching those films.

Roald Dahl used to TERRIFY the kids he looked after with spooky stories.

Bad Jelly tries to eat those kids.

Now? We have an annoying talking car with a moustache, and a shark mobster that goes to the carwash.

But, really, Disney have been carving up happy endings for years. The Little Mermaid sacrifices herself in the REAL ending of the story.

If you want a kid to have an imagination, you shouldn't mollycoddle.

In the incredibles, that Syndrome guy was going to be pretty sinister and real but they changed him into a twat before they got too far down the production line.

And the soccer mums are totally behind it.

 

[SoftRogue]

True, Disney butchers the classics to make with the happy endings, but what do you expect?

Anyway, there's one villain that I think ranks up there with the real big bads of Disney...

Scar.

Of course, that might be because they are all animals, Disney was able to get away with a little more. After all, we see Scar murder Mufasa right on the screen; which we wouldn't see in a Disney film that featured 'human' characters.

On the other end of the spectrum...well, nobody sucks like Gaston.

 

[Ryogas_BF]

True, Disney butchers the classics to make with the happy endings, but what do you expect?

Anyway, there's one villain that I think ranks up there with the real big bads of Disney...

Scar.

QFT

 

[puckreathof]

Yeah. No villain has the kind of presence Maleficent could pull enough when she said 'And now, you face me o' Prince, and all the powers of HELL!' and then turns into a Dragon. Maleficent didn't sing. The evil stepmother in Cinderella didn't sing. The Wicked Queen didn't sing. Why do villains have to sing? Scar was awesome because he killed James Earl Jones, I mean Darth Va..., I Mean Mufasa. Still, the singing?

Most of the villains worked best because they were classic and the heroes and heroines were classic. They try to modernize it too much, and also thanks to all the soccer moms and people like my sister's godmother (Lion King = too violent. Cuz of the stampede? Mufasa dying? I guess.) also help ruin things.

 

[SoftRogue]

Scar was awesome because he killed James Earl Jones, I mean Darth Va..., I Mean Mufasa. Still, the singing?

...ok, anybody but me seeing a crack crossover fic between Lion King and Star Wars with the Pride Lands being ruled by Darth Vader instead of Mufasa? :rofl:

Anyway, speaking about Lion King, another advantage is the bad guy's goon's. In just about every Disney movie made in the past few years, the goon squad are a bunch of bumbling buffoons who's only purpose is to provide comic relief and a little bit of tension.

Yes; Shenzi, Banzai and Ed to all that and more...but they're competent and bad ass.

Especially compaired to all the other 'goons' Disney Villains use? Please...

 

[Drawde]

Basically, it comes down to the image Disney got cartoons to be. Disney is pretty much the reason cartoons are now considered "kids shows". Cartoons originally were more for adults, and it shows in the older ones. Disney eventually started aiming for the younger watchers, and it snowballed from there. They became more and more oriented towards kids, and managed to push the image of the entire artform so far towards that, that for a while it was almost impossible to make a successful mature cartoon, at least in the U.S..

Though the lazy parents are also to blame. The ones that want to have as little to do with raising their kids as possible, so they have the violence removed from the cartoons so they don't have to actually monitor what the kids watch on their babysitter, the TV. That, and having them preach morals as well, so they don't have to teach them.

 

[Estrecca]

Judge Frollo from the Hunchback of Notre Dame is another modern Disney villain and whoever thinks that he has some good in him... Sincerely, I consider his song about Esmeralda to be one of the creepiest things I've ever seen in a Disney movie.

 

[Sect]

EDIT: Screw it, I'm not retyping all this. Basic jist: what's wrong with singing villains? Some of them do it quite well, such as Scar, Jafar, and (getting a bit off topic) the Phantom (Gerard Butler, specifically).

 

[Maelgrim]

I know what you mean, I'm a fan of a fair few singing villains (Hades being a favourite) simply becuase they're a differant type of malevolence; not every git is the same ultra serious impersonal monster.

Hades was affably evil and for me it only strengthened his role becuase it cemented how sure of himself he was.

Frollo was the other end of the spectrum: his little song was almost absurdly symbolic and dark (specially if you can understand latin) Song has long been a dramatic device for bareing a characters soul or a quick expostion. it only really sucks when the character is misued.

But I have to agree with the general consensus; disney villains are pretty pathetic comapred to the good ole days.

Where are the Xanatoses and Demonas? the Jafars? the age where it seemed like disney snuck thigns under the wire for those who looked.