Watchmen Info
- Thread starter paulo_j1983
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The Watchmen is a deconstruction of the superhero genre by Alan Moore (who as he puts it, was in a really bad mood).
Although the bulk of the plot takes place in the 80s, the comicbook covers events as far back as the masked mystery men of the thirties. The core of the plot is Rorshach, an illegal vigilante, investigating the murder of a government sanctioned mystery man named The Comedian. During his investigation he gets arrested, then rescued by a second generation mystery femme who's also the second generation lover of the story's only super-powered hero, and a retired gadgeteer. In the end they trace the responsibility back to the origins, leading to an ethical confrontation between former heroes.
As far as issues go... well, yeah. It's got a lot of issues. There's a fair bit of sex. Hard to say how violent the film will be, but Rorshach, is fairly brutal in the comic. There is also a mob lynching, rape, mythos horrors, betrayal and 'fictional with in the setting' cannibalism IIRC. (I may be misremembering the latter).
Although the bulk of the plot takes place in the 80s, the comicbook covers events as far back as the masked mystery men of the thirties. The core of the plot is Rorshach, an illegal vigilante, investigating the murder of a government sanctioned mystery man named The Comedian. During his investigation he gets arrested, then rescued by a second generation mystery femme who's also the second generation lover of the story's only super-powered hero, and a retired gadgeteer. In the end they trace the responsibility back to the origins, leading to an ethical confrontation between former heroes.
As far as issues go... well, yeah. It's got a lot of issues. There's a fair bit of sex. Hard to say how violent the film will be, but Rorshach, is fairly brutal in the comic. There is also a mob lynching, rape, mythos horrors, betrayal and 'fictional with in the setting' cannibalism IIRC. (I may be misremembering the latter).
Personally I find Watchmen kind of overrated. So it's a deconstruction of the superhero genre, so it addresses big ethical questions and abuse of power and some key thoughts about what supers might really be like. So what?
It's dark, depressing, and grim, and touts itself as being "realistic".
Did Ozy not consider that the Soviet Union might see the "alien attack" as a hoax or simply an opportunity to get on up over the US? Did Rorschach and Nite Owl not think to just spill the beans and give the government the evidence they found that Ozy was planning something like this? Even if they didn't trust the government, leaking this stuff to the press BEFORE they ran off to confront Ozymandias would have been much smarter.
Ultimately, Moore made the same mistake most writers do when they write politics-They assume everyone has the same motivations and that the US is the biggest threat to the world. Period.
I'm not saying they had to write "All Hail USA! Woo hoo!" or anything like that, but they could have stepped outside their Leftist bubble and seen that BOTH sides of the Cold War had their own agendas, and the Soviet Union's were pretty clear cut through the propaganda-Take over world and place under communist rule. How would a weakened US NOT be a good thing in their eyes for this?
A better plan would have been for Ozymandias to hit multiple cities with "aliens", thus putting everyone on an equal strategic footing. Not saying I support what he did but that's what I would have done in his place.
In conclusion, it is an interesting story with nice art, but the whole "grimdark = REAL!" age of comics is just as insipid and annoying as the "Golly Gee Willickers!" Golden and Silver age comics. Not all vigilantes would be psychos, thank you.
It's dark, depressing, and grim, and touts itself as being "realistic".
Did Ozy not consider that the Soviet Union might see the "alien attack" as a hoax or simply an opportunity to get on up over the US? Did Rorschach and Nite Owl not think to just spill the beans and give the government the evidence they found that Ozy was planning something like this? Even if they didn't trust the government, leaking this stuff to the press BEFORE they ran off to confront Ozymandias would have been much smarter.
Ultimately, Moore made the same mistake most writers do when they write politics-They assume everyone has the same motivations and that the US is the biggest threat to the world. Period.
I'm not saying they had to write "All Hail USA! Woo hoo!" or anything like that, but they could have stepped outside their Leftist bubble and seen that BOTH sides of the Cold War had their own agendas, and the Soviet Union's were pretty clear cut through the propaganda-Take over world and place under communist rule. How would a weakened US NOT be a good thing in their eyes for this?
A better plan would have been for Ozymandias to hit multiple cities with "aliens", thus putting everyone on an equal strategic footing. Not saying I support what he did but that's what I would have done in his place.
In conclusion, it is an interesting story with nice art, but the whole "grimdark = REAL!" age of comics is just as insipid and annoying as the "Golly Gee Willickers!" Golden and Silver age comics. Not all vigilantes would be psychos, thank you.
QFT. I work with people think its the best thing since sliced bread.
I think the fact that it mentally attacked all of the psychically sensitive people in the world - which came out of nowhere at that point in the series - is what halted the Soviets, but I still agree with you over all, he should have attacked both sides at the very least.
I think the fact that it mentally attacked all of the psychically sensitive people in the world - which came out of nowhere at that point in the series - is what halted the Soviets, but I still agree with you over all, he should have attacked both sides at the very least.
Sarcasm Warning: there is no sarcasm in this post. I know it may sound like I am being that way, but I worded this as best I could to leave sarcasm out entirely.
Yes, he did. In fact, at one point (IIRC) Ozymandias actually admitted that he knew that his plan could go two different directions, depending on how Russia reacted.
Remember the page where he's standing with his back to all the televisions, and shouts "I did it!" ? That was his big gamble paying off. It could've easily gone the other way (but then that would've been a cop-out ending).
IIRC, they found something on Ozymandias' computer, but didn't know exactly what it was or what it meant. So, they went looking for Ozymandias - when the got to Antarctica, they found out more, and then confronted Ozy.
But then again, you're only saying that because you're not actually drawing a comparison between The Watchmen and other particular works. You're drawing a comparison between The Watchmen and what you hate most about other comics. Hopefully you value your opinion well enough to make a better judgement call then that.
This is valid. If the story had been written as a single novel, then they could probably have expanded upon this a lot more.
However, it was written in 12 pieces, and they had to make each chapter focus on the main characters over the politics, rather than the politics over the main characters.
Now that I think about it, I would like to know what any superheroes' lives in the Soviet Union would've been like ...
I also think that would've been more likely to succeed, than what he actually did.
... EDIT: no, wait, scratch that. Not trying to be sarcastic; I remember that the way the "alien" killed everybody was through a psychic blast like a nuclear bomb - those nearest the source were fried to a crisp, but it was felt (to some degree) all around the world. Multiple aliens would've killed nearly everybody, and rendered most of the survivors insane.
... out of curiosity, what do you like then?
EDIT 2: I know, I know, I'm supporting a necro ... :huh.:
Yes, he did. In fact, at one point (IIRC) Ozymandias actually admitted that he knew that his plan could go two different directions, depending on how Russia reacted.
Remember the page where he's standing with his back to all the televisions, and shouts "I did it!" ? That was his big gamble paying off. It could've easily gone the other way (but then that would've been a cop-out ending).
IIRC, they found something on Ozymandias' computer, but didn't know exactly what it was or what it meant. So, they went looking for Ozymandias - when the got to Antarctica, they found out more, and then confronted Ozy.
But then again, you're only saying that because you're not actually drawing a comparison between The Watchmen and other particular works. You're drawing a comparison between The Watchmen and what you hate most about other comics. Hopefully you value your opinion well enough to make a better judgement call then that.
This is valid. If the story had been written as a single novel, then they could probably have expanded upon this a lot more.
However, it was written in 12 pieces, and they had to make each chapter focus on the main characters over the politics, rather than the politics over the main characters.
Now that I think about it, I would like to know what any superheroes' lives in the Soviet Union would've been like ...
I also think that would've been more likely to succeed, than what he actually did.
... EDIT: no, wait, scratch that. Not trying to be sarcastic; I remember that the way the "alien" killed everybody was through a psychic blast like a nuclear bomb - those nearest the source were fried to a crisp, but it was felt (to some degree) all around the world. Multiple aliens would've killed nearly everybody, and rendered most of the survivors insane.
... out of curiosity, what do you like then?
EDIT 2: I know, I know, I'm supporting a necro ... :huh.: