WH40K: United Against the Necrons

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#1
Inspired by a discussion on page 4 of the Strange Companions thread, on Spacebattles.

Prince Charon said:
nick012000 said:
It's almost a pity GW goes for The Status Quo Is God, because seeing Humanity, the Tau, the Eldar, and the Orks uniting against the Necrons would be badass.
I'd like to see that. Seriously.
Triggerhappy said:
rider of war said:
I concur, that would be awesome.. The orks would be awesome, but I'm not sure most orks would go along with it. The blood axes probably would.
Meh, all you have to do is convince that they can have a bigger war against the Necrons then all of the other races combined. Of course it would be more like channeling a flood than any sort of alliance.
Prince Charon said:
Valiran said:
I've been contemplating writing a fanfic somewhat along those lines, but laziness and the fear of people hating it have stopped me.
Well, I suppose I could post it on one of the ideas forums on The Fanfiction Forum, and see what develops. If I do, I'll post a link to the thread, in this thread, OK?
So, here it is. Kick the Status Quo to the curb, and lets find a way to unite Humanity, the Tau, the Eldar, and the Orks against the Necrons (and possibly the Tyranids). Waking up and healing the God Emperor of Man might help, I think. Alternatively, you can use one of the new Primarchs from the You are a Primarch thread to fix the Imperium... or not.

Together I think they could win.
 

Grunt

Well-Known Member
#2
If the numbers are really as horrible as the fluff speculates they are, the galaxy is fucked.

If there really are as many hive-fleets as there are worlds in the galaxy, then the game is over. Completely, absolutely. Even more so because the new Planetstrike book confirmed that the tyranids can devour even orc spores.

Thing is also healing the emperor would be a boost yes...but it would also mean major disturbances, with revolutions, massacres and genocides day after day....eh...even more than is the norm I mean.
 

drakensis

Well-Known Member
#3
Hmm. Okay, I have a plan... of sorts... for achieving this.

Step one: A Eldar farseer has to manipulate a situation such that an Ork Warboss becomes an Inquisitor (this is the easy part - stop looking at me like I'm a crazy person).

Step two: The Orkish Inquisition then raises a massive Waargh to joing forces with an Imperial Crusade against the Tau, with the Farseer co-ordinating his arrival to coincide with with a Tyranid Hive Fleet. (Have the 'nids lured there if need be). Offer the Tau an alliance against the Tyranids for the 'Greater Good'. (Be prepared to sacrifice an emo kid with a scarred forehead if need be).

Step three: Fight a huge, epic campaign against the tyranids that all three components of this alliance consider to be satisfying. If only because the Tau and Imperials find watching Orks charging at someone else for a change to be good entertainment.

Step four: Propose to repeat the campaign on a grander scale on mightiest threat that can be found, for the Emperor, for the Greater Good and for a great Scrap! Then have the Eldar arrive and offer to join in if the war is against the Necrons.

Step five: Profit!
 

Sunhawk

Well-Known Member
#4
Grunt said:
If the numbers are really as horrible as the fluff speculates they are, the galaxy is fucked.

If there really are as many hive-fleets as there are worlds in the galaxy, then the game is over. Completely, absolutely. Even more so because the new Planetstrike book confirmed that the tyranids can devour even orc spores.

Thing is also healing the emperor would be a boost yes...but it would also mean major disturbances, with revolutions, massacres and genocides day after day....eh...even more than is the norm I mean.
Even if the number of hive fleets (That is, the big invasion forces that there've been... three of? Kraken, Behemoth and Leviathan, with maybe a fourth way back when) is an order of magnitude less, everyone's in trouble in a straight-up fight as-is.

So... there needs to be game-changers of various sorts.

1) Technological/Naval approach. If you can bring the Imperium to the technological level of the heights of human technology of the past, then you've got the potential for a very solid defense against the fleets before they hit dirt.

There are three components involved in the naval approaches; first of all, detection. You need a way to detect the present and future position of hive fleet components - if you can track them, you can ambush them. Aside from possible FTL sensory handwavium, there's probably a decent way to do this by sensing the presence and strength of the hive-mind (ala how astropaths can know when a hive fleet is incoming by the warp-shadow it casts). The better your detection, the easier it is to perform the later steps.

Second of all, interception. Warp drive, as it stands, is somewhat unreliable as to how fast it gets you places. A more consistent or faster drive would help coordination; the better you can coordinate, the more forces you can bring to bear upon a given hive fleet segment and the faster you can move the more space a given set of ships can cover. Better detection would allow you to intercept earlier and with greater force.

Last of all, elimination. It's pretty likely that a solid archeotech base (with modern-ship numbers) with some xeno additions could make mincemeat of pretty significantly sized hive-fleet segments.

Overall, it's theoretically possible; the Imperium has a huge logistical base, with the numbers to crew fleets and the manufactories to turn out materials. All that is needed is the knowledge (say, in the form of a couple of intact STCs) and the social control (you'd need the Emperor, really).

2) "Heal the Emperor". In theory this gives the Imperium a really strong central will, given a few years for the big guy to consolidate and purge. His psychic capabilities are enormous, as are his mental capabilities; if anyone can find a way to turn something like the beacon into a Hivefleet-detecting radar station, he probably can. He probably also has a pretty significant amount of knowledge at his disposal, allowing the archeotech option to a greater or lesser extent.

3) The "Untouchable" approach. This is predicated on how psychic blanks affect the hivemind (they more or less shut it down). Given a way of performing interstellar-range telepathic jamming, it's quite possible to ward any Imperial systems against hive-fleets. As the fleets are always seeking biomass, if you can prevent them from being able to enter the vicinity of biomass-bearing planets, you more or less form a defensive win. If the method is ship-transportable (even with a shortened range), then you probably have a way to guarantee the death of any hive-fleet segments outside the protected area you can find. And, even better, all the species as a whole knows is that communication from a particular piece completely stopped... You might need to couple this method with a way to detect and elimination genestealer infestations, depending on the nature of the interference.

On the whole, the actual number of hive fleets is not as much of an issue. If you can find a way to reliably defeat them, then the Tyrannid species is going to probably look elsewhere for biomass.

Sooo... plan, assuming the social directional capability exists:
1) Develop a consistent method for jamming the telepathic hivemind communication on a planetary level. This could be a combination of warpcraft, technological research (geller fields and force weapons indicate that technology can affect warp and psychic powers), Eldar wraithbone technology... whatever works. Considering the existence of alpha+ psykers and assorted phenomenon, this is probably not out of the question. The requirements: It needs to be able to cover the whole planet (and maybe a bit around it), be reliable, consistent and more or less indefinitely sustainable. Bonus requirement: It's ship-portable for fleet action.
2) Create a long-range hive mind detection capability so fleets and traders know where the tyrannids are; the former for search-and-destroy and the latter to avoid.
3) Cover the Imperium worlds with the technology.
4) Use the technology as leverage to dominate the Eldar and Tau. Orks aren't likely to care, so just let them have fun with their new playmates.

That's the best bet I can find - use the hive mind as the weak point to attack.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#5
OK, but what about the Necrons?
 

Grunt

Well-Known Member
#6
My brothers, do not make the mistake of thinking yourselves prepared. I have stared into the face of our ruin, and it is not a face. It is a mouth. A mouth containing a billion teeth, and each tooth is a living thing, and each living thing is a horror built only to kill, and when the mouth closes it shall not be to honour to the supreme Emperor, or sue for peace, or discuss terms. It shall be to swallow our Imperium whole.

We call them Tyranids as if theyre a race, another xenos clan to be faced down and cleansed. In the face of horror we cling to our sciences, our labels, little realising they do nothing but drown us. Wed do better to call them a disease. There is no better analogy. Ive seen the hive ships, brothers. Barbed horrors scuttling forth to kill, bloated vermin writhing back to be absorbed, their bellies full. Ive seen the forests picked clean of life. Ive seen the biofleets draining the water of teeming worlds, the vortex mouths guzzling the prairies. Ive seen shadows moving in the warp, the tentacles stretching out of the darkness beyond the Eastern Rim.

This is the End of Times, brothers. Death approaches, and it is not at the hands of a ravening horde nor any army of contemptible aliens. Our enemy is a single intellect. A single gestalt consciousness, more ancient than we can conceive, more massive than we can measure, a single mind that has not one body, but a trillion. An all-seeing eye that has no shape and no form. How can we fight such a thing?

I will tell you: until the last breath. If we can but delay that great maw from closing around us, then we have achieved what countless Empires, countless worlds, countless galaxies, have not. I say this not to terrify you. I say it simply so you understand, simply so you do not waste your time with luxuries such as hope. There is no hope. The Great Devourer is upon us. Let us see how long we may restrain her jaw.
- Inquisitor Kryptman, addressing the Congresium Xenos, 992.M41

With that said, I will agree that they stand a good chance if they were to reach the level of the Dark Age.....but then again that is pretty much impossible.
 

Sunhawk

Well-Known Member
#7
Again, the key is the hivemind. If you can detect it, you can detect the Tyrannid fleets (and genestealer infestation too). If you can jam it, you can take them down no matter the numbers.

Really, the only other massive-scale effective strategy is to somehow divide the single consciousness and cause the resulting minds to war among themselves (ala the "Ork" strategy - have them fight each other rather than you).

Necrons... less of a threat, in my mind, although different in nature. There are only a few C'Tan left, and most necrons are still sleeping - find and destroy the tombs and they won't have places to resurrect themselves. The more each necron dies, the more bestial and basic its mind becomes. Utilize warp-based tactics, learning from those who came before you; pariahs are rather few in number, and when they die they lose the pariah ability I believe (the organic parts that create the field are destroyed).

Proper necrons are also finite in number; I don't believe they have ways of reproducing any more, having left behind flesh.
 

Grunt

Well-Known Member
#8
....I will say it again...the imperium can already detect a hive-fleet by the shadow in the warp, the main problem they have is stopping them.

They can tell which sector a hive-fleet is...but then it gets hairy...communication is screwed, survivors are your best bet for any informationat all.

It does not help that a tyranid invasion takes about 100 days for most worlds. That's fast, really freaking fast, since we're talking about an absorption of an amount of mass eclipsing the entire mass of the hive-fleets themselves....by an order of magnitude.

Genestealers have their own brood telepathy, when they do call out to the hive-mind its far too late.

Also, re-read the quote I posted and other stuff about tyranids. The Hive-mind can stretch over lightyears. Entire hive-fleets are coordinated by it and when you consider the shape some took that tells you all you need to know.

You can jam it in the sense of killing the leader-beasts capable of forwarding it to the lower creatures....the hive-mind itself does not jam....the shadow in the warp pretty much shows us that it jams everyone else though.

Really, the only other massive-scale effective strategy is to somehow divide the single consciousness and cause the resulting minds to war among themselves (ala the "Ork" strategy - have them fight each other rather than you).
Useless, the tyranids have already been stated to kill each other, a total war lasting fractions of a real battle, resulting in the winner absorbing all the biomass and adding the losers usefull genes to their own. Nothing is lost, instead a far deadlier combination is born.
 

Sunhawk

Well-Known Member
#9
By 'detection' I mean "long-range pinpoint detection" coupled with "speedy communication of location".

As for jamming... well, there's not theoretically wrong with interfering with the hive mind; blanks do it, from my understanding.
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
#10
First of all, you don't want the Orks. They'll turn on you at the worst moment so they can smash da humies.

You do however, want the Orks to decide to fight everyone else. The Imperium has actually already used that strategy against the Tyranids though.

I've been thinking for a bit, and the best way I see an alliance of the Imperium, Eldar, and Tau going through is with the destruction of the Imperium actually. None of the three are really tolerant, but open season against the Imperium could bring most of the major bad groups into conflict while they all attempt to feed on the remains. Chaos obviously. The Necrons attacking them to try to keep them from getting too powerful before they're ready to come back. The Orks looking for a good fight. The Dark Eldar looking to loot the remains for slaves.

If all of their enemies go to war with each other over the bloated corpse of human space, it might be conceivable that a slimmer, more efficient, smarter, empire of humans could emerge. Kind of like General Motors bankruptcy, except with more death and facerape.
 

parker

Well-Known Member
#11
Wake up the EMPRAH and they, the Eldar and the Tau will work together just fine.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#12
Uh, what? The Eldar hate humans. All of them, even (especially) the Emperor. They just don't often directly fuck with the Imperium because humans have huge numbers, and Eldar very much do not.

The Emperor awakes, and his humans-first humans-only policy (as demonstrated during the Great Crusade) continues unabated - in all likelihood increasing in fervor. There is no place for the Tau, let alone the Tau Empire, in the Emperor's realm.

Awakening and healing the Emperor means the Imperium wins against just about any of the forces in their own galaxy. Whether or not his presence would be enough to beat back the Tyranids... doubtful.

Using the Orks against the Tyranids is a good move, because either way, everybody else wins, right?
Except... what if the Orks win too many battles? If they do, then you still have the Tyranids looming over the horizon, and you now have a lot of battle-hardened Orks made bigger and stronger by their experiences. Orks who fight and live to fight again get stronger, after all.

I think the only hope the Imperium has is if the Emperor awakes and creates a new set of Primarchs.
 

Grunt

Well-Known Member
#13
Using the Orks against the Tyranids is a good move, because either way, everybody else wins, right?
Except... what if the Orks win too many battles? If they do, then you still have the Tyranids looming over the horizon, and you now have a lot of battle-hardened Orks made bigger and stronger by their experiences. Orks who fight and live to fight again get stronger, after all.
Yes, see hive-fleet leviathan story and see the planetstrike book about that. Its described there pretty nicely.

By 'detection' I mean "long-range pinpoint detection" coupled with "speedy communication of location".
What is there to pin-point, the Hive-mind is, by its very nature more of a bubble, held by several nodes. How do you pin-point something that dwarfes Star Systems?
 

parker

Well-Known Member
#14
toraneko said:
Before the emperor was killed he was setting up relations with several alien races. Not only that, the Eldar have said several times that the humans are the only things keeping the galaxy from being destroyed by Chaos/Orks/Necrons/Tyranids. They would probably help out some. The Tau are a very andvanced race who the Emperor could use and manipulate for the better of Humanity.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#15
parker said:
Before the emperor was killed he was setting up relations with several alien races.
Cite me a source on that; it sounds like something I'd like to read more on.

Not only that, the Eldar have said several times that the humans are the only things keeping the galaxy from being destroyed by Chaos/Orks/Necrons/Tyranids.
That doesn't mean they actually like humans at all. They just see the Imperium as a decent barricade against the Eldar taking further losses.
They see the Orks the same way, after all.

Furthermore, I see it as more likely that Eldar Farseers would foresee the coming of the Tyranids, manipulate the other races into fighting them, and then bugger off and let the "kids" duke it out.

The Tau are a very andvanced race who the Emperor could use and manipulate for the better of Humanity.
The only thing the Tau have going for them is technology. They're small and weak, both in body and in the Immaterium. Once the tech is deciphered and adapted for Imperial use (not difficult at all; see the Gue'vesa), they would - at best - be forgotten.
 

parker

Well-Known Member
#16
It was in one of the Horus Heresy books. The 'Anti-Xeno' thing comes from one of the Primarchs.
 

Abendroth

Well-Known Member
#17
It's a necro(n) but I have content.

In order to mount any serious coordinated effort the first step would be kicking the humans into shape (or making an Ork Inquisitor, per Drakensis, but this may be slightly more likely. :) )

I propose the following: The Imperium discovers a lost STC. Except it was never really lost; it's a careful forgery created by the Eldar. It contains the schematics for various medical equipment, including the Golden Throne. Among other modules that could be attached to a medical device of that type is a module that causes cellular regeneration in people who are otherwise in stasis.

Now, you or I might be suspicious of such a convenient find, but we're not the Adeptus Mechanicus. They'll simply go "This is a sign from the Omnissiah! The time has come! Praise the Omnissiah!" They immediately build one and bolt it on. It works.

Now, with the Emperor and his massive supply of awesomeness running around there are several possibilities. Since the Status Quo is no longer God, any or all of these may occur.

1) The Emperor wakes up just as the largest WAAGH ever occurs. He travels to meet them, beats down the leader and declares himself their new leader, "cause he's da biggest an' da strongest." He then declares WAAGH against the Tyranids/Necrons. If he has to be part of the Ork psychic gestalt to lead, well, he's one of the strongest psykers ever; he can fake it. If necessary the Eldar will help, if only to make sure the Orks are pointed at the right target.

2) Talking the Tau around will be easy: killing Necrons and Tyranids is clearly for the Greater Good. (My personal theory is that the Eldar actually arranged for the Tau to exist by creating the Ethereal Caste for the purpose of using the Tau to fight their enemies. The Tau's ultra-shooty ships are perfect for engaging Tyranid fleets.)

3)The Eldar join in to make sure the mon-keighs don't screw everything up and so they can have people in key places to make everything go the way they want.

4)The Emperor and/or the Eldar study the Void Dragon and it's prison on Mars. Based on what they learn, the devise anti-C'Tan weapons, possibly made out of chopped up bits of Void Dragon. Everybody gang-tackles the Necrons and between their new weapons, the Emperor and, say, the Eldar god Khaine, they manage to win. With no C'tan to serve, the Necrons basically shut down.

5)Similar to the above, but instead of killing the Void Dragon they effectively lobotomize it, allowing a sufficiently power psyker (i.e. the Emperor) to use it like a puppet. (This lead to the image of the God-Emperor riding through a blazing supernova on the back of the Void Dragon, powersword upraised, with an Eldar Farseer clinging to him. Sort of like a Boris Vallejo painting, but 40K-ized.) After they kill all the other C'tan the Emperor uses his control over the Void Dragon to command the Necron army and orders them to go kill Tyranids, killing two <s>xenos</s> birds with one stone.

6) The Emperor orders the missing Primarchs to stop slacking and get back to work.

7) The Eldar run around conditioning future Ork warbosses to want to fight Necrons by having Necron-like robots beat them up, proving that Necrons are a good fight.

8) After the Necrons and Tyranids, everybody gangs up on Chaos.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#18
^ Awesome.

Also, Macha will be pleased. In fact, I could see her being the one to send the Humans the fake STC.

(If you don't know who Macha is, look for her article on 1d4chan - be warned, said article contains pics that are NSFW, which is why I'm not linking directly to it.)
 

sworded

Well-Known Member
#19
Imagining GEoM drawing on the entire psychic power of all the Orks in the W40K galaxy...hmm, there seems to blood dripping from my nose.
 

Leonite

Well-Known Member
#20
Knowing that Necrons are essentially trying to seal the warp, I wouldn't be surprised if a Chaos force, likely Thousand Sons, joined in to fight the Necrons. Yes they may turn against the alliance afterwards, but they help create a decent firebase.
 

elric

Well-Known Member
#21
toraneko said:
The only thing the Tau have going for them is technology. They're small and weak, both in body and in the Immaterium. Once the tech is deciphered and adapted for Imperial use (not difficult at all; see the Gue'vesa), they would - at best - be forgotten.
Nah. They would be absorbed into the Imperium and used as researchers/semi-Blanks.

The Eldar may hate and distrust mankind now, but IIRC, Taldeer once offered the Emperor an alliance while warning him of Horus's treason. The Emperor refused to listen, which the Farseer bitterly regretted, as it could have been enough to let the Eldar recover.
To be blunt, a stable Human/Eldar alliance is all that's really needed to curbstomp everything. The Eldar could spend far more time training Farseers and whatnot if they don't need warriors due to human protection. Humans get Webway logistics and Eldar future sight to know when and where to send troops. Boom. Even the Orks are no longer a major threat, as a major Waaagh! would get nipped in the bud.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#22
Abendroth said:
6) The Emperor orders the missing Primarchs to stop slacking and get back to work.
Emperor: 'Vulcan, Corax Leman get off your lazy asses and get back to work!" All three sons snap to attention as the Emperor sweeps by, a course of 'Yes father' following swiftly in his wake.

Emperor: "Roboute, you don't have time to be dead we've got work to do, and SOMEBODY wake up the Lion!"
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#23
Heh. Another way it could go is if an Inquisitor finds out enough information to form a plan. A plan he sells to one Inquisitor Amberley Bail. It's a suicide mission. It's the only hope for the Imperium of Man.

They must launch a mission into the Eye of Terror, land on Nurgle's palace-world, get into his throne-room, and explain to Isha why she needs to heal her fellow Old One, the God-Emperor of Mankind. That the Tyranids are coming, and that the galaxy cannot stop them as it is.

Only the united abilities of all the races of the galaxy can stop them. Only with the united leadership of the surviving Old Ones is that possible. Isha. Chegorach. The God Emperor. Gork. Mork. Only their abilities can hope to unite their disparate child races; their three great children: the Orks, Eldar, and Humans. Their lesser child races: the Jokaero, the Hrud, the Tau, the Slann, the K'Nib, and so on.

It's a suicide mission. It's vital to the survival of the Imperium of Man. The survival of humanity is up to you, Commissar Ciaphas Cain.
 

Mercsenary

Well-Known Member
#24
nick012000 said:
Heh. Another way it could go is if an Inquisitor finds out enough information to form a plan. A plan he sells to one Inquisitor Amberley Bail. It's a suicide mission. It's the only hope for the Imperium of Man.

They must launch a mission into the Eye of Terror, land on Nurgle's palace-world, get into his throne-room, and explain to Isha why she needs to heal her fellow Old One, the God-Emperor of Mankind. That the Tyranids are coming, and that the galaxy cannot stop them as it is.

Only the united abilities of all the races of the galaxy can stop them. Only with the united leadership of the surviving Old Ones is that possible. Isha. Chegorach. The God Emperor. Gork. Mork. Only their abilities can hope to unite their disparate child races; their three great children: the Orks, Eldar, and Humans. Their lesser child races: the Jokaero, the Hrud, the Tau, the Slann, the K'Nib, and so on.

It's a suicide mission. It's vital to the survival of the Imperium of Man. The survival of humanity is up to you, Commissar Ciaphas Cain.
Somehow... I think this could work.
 

bissek

Well-Known Member
#25
Does this mean that Cain will end up kicking Khorne in the balls for real?
 
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