Why is it unregistered people cannot see posts?

[Fatuous One]

There's one thing I'd like to say about the thought of removing lurkers: atmosphere. While I've little problem with signing up to view the forum, (and in fact, I think it's a good thing all around) forums that require one to post are... well, I probably wouldn't have stuck around here originally if such a thing were in place when TFF began.

No, I certainly don't mind (and in fact, enjoy) discussing and/or criticizing various fanfiction, but if it's something that's required, it tends to stem my enthusiasm. It just seems like that type of thing is more of restriction on creativity... or perhaps I should say, it's not an atmosphere that I like.

And in fact, an application of that idea is part of the reason why there was a mass exodus of Shinji's forum, if I recall correctly (stressing the 'part of' bit).


Just saying.

 

[SimmyC]

Yeah. I'm with F1.

While on one hand, I don't mind say a lot of the 'inactive' lurkers to be removed, I am wondering what happened if a 'post' requirement was in place when I first came here.

At the time I joined this website, I only had, at most, one or two anime fanfics. "Conflicted Hearts" and "Unfortunate Life of Shinji Ikari". And, for the most part, the only reason why I was here was to read Hawk's stuff. I didn't think mine was worthy until I stayed around here, and yes, talked to other peeps about.

And in the end, it's this website that helped expand my writing, and of course, improve.

But if I HAD to post something, I'm not sure how long I would have stayed. Voluntary is one thing, but mandatory? There is a reason why a certain someone's other forum failed.

[edit]Oh, and the reason why there is even a registration requirement, I agree with as well. I mean, if you let anyone just come in and view, well, it sort of 'loses' this site's exclusivity as a place where other writes can discuss fanfics and instead, becomes a 'defacto' FFN, which is not what Hawk intended.

Now, it shouldn't get too restrictive (again, there is a reason why the other forum failed), but people need to realize, this site is meant for helping other writers. Not an archive site.

 

[cilrais]

The tradeoff? Commenting, nitpicking and generally providing the writers with help in finalizing, correcting and finishing their stuff.

Getting the payoff for free? Not so cool in my book... If all that interests somebody is to read stuff, then they can bloody wait until final release on an actual fanfiction archive and not waste bandwidth here.

Oh man, I'm boned if this happens. I can't give constructive criticism to save my life. I might be able to do some spell checking I suppose.

 

[PCHeintz72]

The tradeoff? Commenting, nitpicking and generally providing the writers with help in finalizing, correcting and finishing their stuff.

Getting the payoff for free? Not so cool in my book... If all that interests somebody is to read stuff, then they can bloody wait until final release on an actual fanfiction archive and not waste bandwidth here.

Oh man, I'm boned if this happens. I can't give constructive criticism to save my life. I might be able to do some spell checking I suppose.

Considering you rank around 51 in post count, on a forum with 6200+ members, I doubt you need worry even if Hawk started killing accounts.

I still don't think it would be a bad idea, as I still view it as a matter of contribution or participation, but it is not like it really matters to me.

 

[knight_of_ni]

I also agree that making criticism a requirement for the board would stem any motivation for people to post, and would likely cause people to either move elsewhere or create a new forum.

Now, while I understand the want of criticism, hell, I would take a person saying my story sucks as a good thing if they told me why it does, however, forcing comments would ultimately lead to a great deal more pointless posts.

With what you wanted, Hawk, it may just be better to have a cut off for the topics, that way authors or otherwise feel more motivated to move the finished products to an archive, rather than leaving them here. It also takes part of the motivation out of lurking, since they don't really need to on the site to see the various works churned out from the forum. Which would then give a much more accurate member count.

Granted, that comes with its own set of problems because quite frankly, some of the ideas are quite good and looking through them can be used to find ideas for writing. Eh, unfortunately, that's all I got for the negatives right now.

 

[Ike]

I guess these days I'd be something more of a reverse-lurker on the board... I have the post count of a little under 3000, but I havent posted but a few times in the last couple weeks... And before those posts, it had been even longer since I posted...

Another aspect of this forum that is applicable is that it turns non-writers INTO writers. Fuck, I'd never even considered writing fanfiction, and then the 'gakico' thread got started, and I wrote up an omake for that. The Real Sound Nin thread got absurdly out of control (and it still embarrasses me that my first story was an extended songfic), and it just went from there.

Getting rid of people who have no desire to post, and just read up all the good stuff before it gets out would be counter-productive, I think, because you can't tell them from the peope who are on the verge of breaking their lurkerdom and perhaps even beginning to write themselves.

 

[WarmasterCain55]

I guess these days I'd be something more of a reverse-lurker on the board... I have the post count of a little under 3000, but I havent posted but a few times in the last couple weeks... And before those posts, it had been even longer since I posted...

Another aspect of this forum that is applicable is that it turns non-writers INTO writers. Fuck, I'd never even considered writing fanfiction, and then the 'gakico' thread got started, and I wrote up an omake for that. The Real Sound Nin thread got absurdly out of control (and it still embarrasses me that my first story was an extended songfic), and it just went from there.

Getting rid of people who have no desire to post, and just read up all the good stuff before it gets out would be counter-productive, I think, because you can't tell them from the peope who are on the verge of breaking their lurkerdom and perhaps even beginning to write themselves.

He is exactly right.

It was because of Prince Charon's Punishment thread that I was encouraged to write Chained to the Whirlpool.

I've become somewhat of a lurker myself.

 

[garedelyon]

:mellow: Okay so I fret that I count as a lurker.

Because I track topics, but am a little too in awe of certain threads/users to venture any comments. The number of times I click the reply link, and then go back after writing stuff out is rather high. Unless I'm in an opinionated mood, or can get totally behind something. Then I throw all caution to the wind.

Things are working as they are, right? I found this site by following a link one day, and it has made all the difference, in terms of the way I actually type/speak on the internet and to what I write in general. I like it the way it is, but...but change is always good I guess...

I think what Ike said about counter-productivity is true though.

Let sleeping lurkers lie?

 

[hchan1]

I'd rather not see people pressured into posting criticism. Bad, poorly thought out criticism, or the ever-popular UPDAET PLOZ, is almost worse than none at all.

What Ike says rings true to me; before lurking here I had little motivation to write, but after reading some of the off-the-wall ideas and discussions bouncing around I've taken the plunge and written a few drabbles. If I got barred from viewing the forums back in my more timid days, well, I'd probably have stopped reading fanfiction altogether.

 

[SimmyC]

Exactly. That's one of the reasons why I'm leery of eliminating lurkers who, due to our writing, critiquing, etc., suddenly find the courage to write, and find out that they are good themselves.

At the same time though, you also have to look at Hawk's perspective. After all, every lurker is still taking up bandwidth space. And I guess, someone who simply post "Good job", isn't really helping either.

 

[knight_of_ni]

That is the thing, there a good deal of posters who are already just doing "This is great" and "update please" and while having your ego stroked may be nice, it helps more to have people state what is wrong with the fic.

 

[Greengun]

That is the thing, there a good deal of posters who are already just doing "This is great" and "update please" and while having your ego stroked may be nice, it helps more to have people state what is wrong with the fic.

Let's not forget there is a point where something has already been said enough times or by the right people. For example I don't like the most recent parts with the teacher in the Teaser thread for the Love Hina board, other people have expressed a similar opinion better than I ever could. He was good comedy relief not a serious antagonist. So why just echo what they're already saying better?


hmm.. probably a bad example but I'm just trying to illustrate the point.

 

[SimmyC]

That is the thing, there a good deal of posters who are already just doing "This is great" and "update please" and while having your ego stroked may be nice, it helps more to have people state what is wrong with the fic.

Let's not forget there is a point where something has already been said enough times or by the right people. For example I don't like the most recent parts with the teacher in the Teaser thread for the Love Hina board, other people have expressed a similar opinion better than I ever could. He was good comedy relief not a serious antagonist. So why just echo what they're already saying better?


hmm.. probably a bad example but I'm just trying to illustrate the point.

Which is again, why I'm leery of simply 'banning' or 'eliminating' people for lack of post, or content. Like you said, even if you had similar issues with a given fic, if someone else brought it up, why repeat it?

I can understand where Hawk is coming from though. Again, bandwidth cost money and, he's paying for it. And it isn't like he is putting tons of rules and just randomly banning people too. Even if some people on this forum, need to use some common sense. <_<

With all that said, I still like to see constructive criticism when possible. And, I'd like most people here to actually contribute. Yes, if you have nothing to say in either direction, don't say it. But if you feel like, a certain aspect could be improved, and someone else hasn't said it (or you believe that the other person's suggestion can be expanded upon) by all means, say it. At worst, the author wouldn't take the suggestion, or disregards it all together. But any suggestion, if well thought out, would be someone most authors here would love to hear in order to improve their story. And who knows, the more you help others, the chance that you could find yourself wanting to write yourself.

 

[Christopher Robin]

... why would Hawk be paying for the bandwidth? Invision forums are free, AFAIK. The FAQ even flat out states "We do not limit the bandwidth (data transfer) of your forum".

 

[runestar]

Even then, do lurkers even put such a strain on the site's bandwidth, to cause problems for the other members? I mean - at most, they are just reading new fics, not downloading videos or pics. That shouldn't pose a problem, even if there are 1000+ of them...and they aren't likely to be online all at once either. :unsure:

 

[Hawk]

Indeedy, invisionfree ( and zetaboards ) are free, which is both a blessing and a curse.

Blessing, because I get more money left at the end of each month to spend on beer and whisky since I don't have to pay to have TFF online.

Curse, because the performance cannot be upgraded simply by spending a little more money on running the site on a better server or whatever. The performance took a dive somewhere around 2500+ members, I think. While it isn't really much of a bother at the moment with having to wait a few seconds here and there, it is still a bother although a fairly minor one.

 

[lord geryon]

On the whole 'getting rid of lurkers' thing, I can see why Hawk wants to.

But, the question remains... what do you consider a lurker?

Like me, I'm in the top 10(#5 currently) as far as post count goes... but now and again, I'll go a week with making a single post. Does that make me a lurker?

If you mean 'Been here a week/month/year and have 0/5/10 posts' then I can agree with that.

I mean, shit, is that hard to go, "I liked this story, but this part here didn't seem to work/make sense/flow," then explain why?

 

[WarmasterCain55]

On the whole 'getting rid of lurkers' thing, I can see why Hawk wants to.

But, the question remains... what do you consider a lurker?

Like me, I'm in the top 10(#5 currently) as far as post count goes... but now and again, I'll go a week with making a single post. Does that make me a lurker?

If you mean 'Been here a week/month/year and have 0/5/10 posts' then I can agree with that.

I mean, shit, is that hard to go, "I liked this story, but this part here didn't seem to work/make sense/flow," then explain why?

For some people, that's hard.

I know a few people who are like that.

 

[SotF]

I know a few as well, and there are some people who visit the forums in order to get a glance at coming parts of stories they started reading elsewhere. Others end up visiting because of some of us mentioning TFF when we post elsewhere.

Geryon, just noticed I'm on that list as well.

 

[Hawk]

Well, here's my thoughts on the matter...

Lurker without hope of redemption = Member for 12+ months without having posted a single thing

Shameless lurker = Member for 12+ months without having posted a single thing, but still has sent me a pm for lemon access

Cheating lurker = Member for 12+ months, who only started posting after I started pondering ridding TFF of lurkers out in public, but doesn't post anything constructive

Active member = Member who has posted something worthwhile in the last six months

Absent member = Member who posted once upon a time in a galaxy far far away, but hasn't in the last 6+ months

Of these five clear-cut categories, only the first three qualify for vanquishing. Everything else ( if there's even a need for something else as this should cover just about everything... ) will likely have to be judged on a case-to-case-basis.

 

[zeebee1]

The thing is that I was a shameless lurker. Some people can redeem themselves, it just might take a couple of years.

 

[jaredstar]

The thing is that I was a shameless lurker. Some people can redeem themselves, it just might take a couple of years.

i may be wrong but i think that he mean people with zero post and or post with no substance.


you on the other hand have made constructive criticisms from time to time and have offered advice on stories classifying you as a active member (at least by the standards described above.)


if nothing else you have the second highest post count on the whole board which isn't something one would attribute to a lurker

 

[zeebee1]

For a long time I counted as a member of what Hawk terms a shameless lurker. I got over it. But that doesn't change the fact that I used to fit that mold.

 

[BakaNeko]

Maybe a secondary criteria could be to consider last login time?

Surely there are a considerable amount of inactive users that fall under that umbrella.

 

[Mick]

Maybe a secondary criteria could be to consider last login time?

Surely there are a considerable amount of inactive users that fall under that umbrella.

I'd rather not...not everybody can log in as often as they like. There's real life issues to deal with too.

Edit: Besides if they haven't been on in awhile there not actually hurting the bandwith are they?