Nasuverse You're trapped in FRO!

Revlid

Well-Known Member
Alright, let's give this a go. And rather than go for "what would plausibly make a cool character" I'll try for "what would I actually do, given these random stats and no access to the Nasuverse wiki". Dungeons and Dragons Dice Roller, you are the oracle of my future.

Circuit Count: 3, 6, 2, 2, 6, 6 (re-roll 6s) 4, 4, 3 = 36
Circuit Quality: 6, 6, 1, 4, 4 (re-roll 6s) 6, 2 (re-roll 6s) 4 = 33

What the shit. I was expecting something totally pathetic so I could justify hanging around and picking weeds without looking like an outright coward. Instead I am apparently kicking the shit out of your average magus.

How Many Elements: 5, 4 = 9 = 2 Eastern Elements

Ugh. I really would have preferred a Rare Element, so I could just focus my efforts on one hyper-narrow avenue of development and not be expected to engage in more general learning and application. Looking at the table, that would have been the most likely outcome, too. Bah. You keep piling expectations on me, D&D.

What Elements: 4, 5 = Wood, Metal

What the fuck am I supposed to do with this? What's even a good link between Wood and Metal? Oh, god, I'm going to need to experiment and sit through lots of NPC fluff-dumps, here. Represented out-of-universe by Wikipedia.

As for Origin... hm. This is distinct from Circuit Count/Quality (pure genetics) and Element (largely genetics?), in that it actually serves as the root to my entire self (no pun intended). It's the holy grail for therapists (also no pun intended), the point from which the path of your life springs. The verb to the Element's noun, the Alaya to its Gaia. As such, it requires a bit of self-examination, rather than just being what I think would lead to cool powers. Well, what did my reactions to my rolls suggest? Laziness? Eh, that doesn't dominate my existence (appearances aside). Leaning - that is, relying on/making use of other things to support myself? Hm, no, that could lead to some cool things, but it's not really honest - being British, I try to avoid troubling other people with my needs or problems. Carelessness? No, I'm pretty exacting about things I consider to matter, when I get around to them - I have to be, to copyedit and proof things.

That's a thought, actually - something derived from that? I proof stories, often rewriting whole paragraphs, but don't write my own. I write hundreds of thousands of words of hacks and homebrew for games, but no homemade system or setting. I edit documents and letters, but seldom actually write them. I almost compulsively make changes to recipes, even ones I've never made before, but don't come up with my own. I'd rather mod games than make my own. I tend to troubleshoot and play devil's advocate in planning meetings, pushing my ideas to replace ones I consider unsound. I modify images (over 9000 hours in MSPaint) but seldom actually produce any art of my own from scratch. I made a ton of custom models back when I was playing wargames, but always on top of an existing frame, never a wholly original sculpt. An origin of "editing"? Or "replacement"? Or "reconstruction"? Not building stuff on my own, and not improving existing stuff, but coming up with my own components to replace parts of existing stuff? Or, haha, no, I've got something better and more suitable.

So, final results:

Name: Revlid
Circuit Count: 36 circuits
Circuit Quality: 33 units
Total Circuit Capacity: 1188 thaums
Elements: Wood & Metal
Origin: Doubt

So. My attitude to being trapped in a death game will be "what the fuck, no no no". I will swiftly get bored and try to rank up my non-combat skills, like hey isn't there a magic system now? I'd be turned off by the pain, but it'd put me on the path of "I cannot be sure the game won't screw me over in more unexpected ways". This would lead me to try to pick up levels and explore the game - with pick-up groups and a safe margin between me and the front line, because I am not a hero. Pretty soon the addition of universal pain, the discovery of magical research as an experience source, and deducing how much better than average my basic magical traits were would converge on a decision to revisit thaumaturgy and check out my Elements. I keep my username (or swap to it, if I started with something else), but freely tell anyone I team up with my real name. I have trouble really understanding the common aversion to discussing the outside world, frankly.

Honestly, I'd probably end up as a pure "crafter". I'd still go out, to test my products and theories, explore cleared floors out of boredom and curiosity, and... well, play the game. I don't think I could ever quite distance myself from the fascination of exploring a "new world" where anything was possible. I'd probably delve into a great variety of different magecraft schools, not necessarily looking for one style that fit, but cross-comparing and searching for bits and pieces and ideas that I can hack into each other - replacement, remember? I'm not after practical combat-usability, I'm after an understanding of the system so I can make(replace) stuff with it.

Correspondence and comparison with other researchers and magic users is, therefore, a given - I'm happily able to compromise my pride in matters of that sort. Researcher-for-hire, maybe? On the cheap, if I'm getting xp for it anyway. If some sort of forum for such things could be established, I'd happily involve myself - perhaps a publication, once newspapers are announced. I do have a pre-existing publishing skillset, if we assume I'm me-but-a-Japanese native, and so my tourist-tier ability in Japanese (stupid fucking language, anyway - who needs three alphabets and no proper conjugation or tenses?) is a non-factor.

As for what unique areas of magecraft I'd explore... well. I get the lovely benefit of having Eastern-style elements, which are shared by exactly no characters in a series set entirely in Japan*. Even better, of that system I get the two elements without even analogues in the Western system. Why hast thou forsaken me, Britannia? I'd expect such behaviour from your misbegotten and slatternly sibling Hibernia, not you!

*though, granted, "Eastern" elements is a misnomer, since Japan, Tibet, India and most of Indochina generally use systems closer to the "Western" system. Fucking Clocktower, tarring every foreigner with the same brush. Indeed, the "Western" system (understandably, from a Doylist perspective) seems to draw more on Buddhist conceptions of the five elements than Plato or Aristotle's bullshit.

So I'll have to guess at how Wood and Metal work. Well, sitting through some NPC explanations (Wikipedia) tells me that they basically split Wind and Ether's applications between them, with some additional applications plucked from the other three Western Elements, which take on their own slightly different slants in the Eastern model - Earth, for instance, gains the purview of "space", which is associated more with Wind in the Western model, while Water gains "time", which if Emiya's elements are anything to go by certainly isn't associated with that element in the Western model.

Metal is hardness and hardening, combination and division, refinement and consolidation. As a thing mostly of human artifice, it also gets the spiritual aspects of Ether that haven't already been parceled out to other elements (mostly Fire). Like Ether, it's useful for modifying other elements - under the Eastern model, the easiest path to creating ice is almost certainly combining Metal with Water.

Wood deals with flexibility and elasticity, consumption and appropriation, growth and expansion. Along with literal plants (though interestingly, Water also covers some kinds of vegetation), it takes most of Wind's purely physical aspects, like air, sound and (most of) electricity. It also nabs the parts of Ether that deal with life force and mana. Most organic substances fall under Wood, too.

Looking at the bits where these crossover, I see a lot of ways to help out with chemistry, and medicine. Basically the only way to be better at brewing poisons would be if I had Water (or a Rare Element, fuck you protagonists), and I've got a perfect set for surgery. I could see myself producing prosthetics, transplants or outright regrowth when the injuries get that realistic, though by that point I'd need to have boosted several skill ranks to the point where I'd have picked up enough actual knowledge from NPC tutorials that I could presumably practice basic surgery even in the real world. Not easy. Puppet-making would be a definite avenue, though my origin and inclinations would make me more suited to puppet-harnesses (in the manner of Doc Ock), or modular puppet-armour (think Mistral, perhaps). Spiritual surgery is also a route to be seriously considered - though beyond basics like making Familiars (hello again, puppets and cyborgs) I'd have to seek out Illya as (currently) the only tutor for modifying human souls - and I'm unlikely to do that, even if I hear about it, because she's a frontliner and I can't be wasting her valuable time, no. Frankenstein's monster requires, in theory, nothing but Wood and Metal from start to finish - though again, my origin suggests something more along the lines of Hassan's Self-Modification, taking useful bits off things and putting them on other things (once more... puppets, frankenstein'd creatures, and cyborgs in between).

So that'd be me, then. The guy you go to for customized or repaired Familiars and other surgical magecraft, who's always eager to look over any theories and offer constructive criticism and potential fixes. Will eagerly trade work for spellbooks or unusual [Body Parts]. Not interested in hoarding knowledge, and eager for others to make use of his ideas and creations. Unlikely to formally join a Guild, unless there are sufficient passive perks that I can just opt into a large, impersonal one and then not really bother with it or bother it past basic obligations - I'd like to keep myself approachable by all, and avoid formal obligations. As such, my occasional "midliner" forays would be either as part of a pick-up group, tagging along with some gatherers, or (once I'm established) me on my own, swamped in custom familiars.

...though there's actually a lot of other ways a Wood/Metal combination could prove useful, looking at them. Well, that's the route I'd probably end up focusing on.

Most likely way to die? Just look at my origin. Someone desperately needs a healer - maybe the frontline has to split up into groups and there aren't enough healers around. I'd try to fill the gap, because that's what I do (especially with such high magical traits - if I'm taking up a "slot" on the clearly randomly-generated probability curve, do I have the right to stand by while less fortunate people go out and do their best?) and end up dying due to lack of actual experience. As opposed to lack of xp, if I've been doing my research.
 

linkhyrule5

Well-Known Member
Hmm.

You might also be able to do something with "products with life"; Wood and Metal are both hthings that don't really occur in the absence of life. (Wood more so than metal, obviously, but even metal is going to show up as sand and rust a lot more than as metal without someone to refine it from ore.)
 
Not sure if I already posted my idea about the guy whose Element is "Armor".


My other idea would be a guy of undecided Element who starts with Runecraft and expands into tattoos and body-art to create Mystic Codes like temporary Magic Crests for himself and others.

But his only real talent might be "Improving Talents". He could make Shirou better at Swords, whether making them or fighting with them, but he could only make himself better... at making others better, or at making himself better at making himself better at making himself better at (etc). (Naturally, the recursion is curbed by the limited space for painting on himself.)

What sort of Elements work for such a character? Would it need a rare Element at all?
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
Wing101 said:
I'm a bit dissapointed I didn't get wind guess I'll have to figure out a way to fly with rockets like iron man instead.
The typical way maguses fly in the Nasuverse is by gravity manipulation to "levitate" plus an ether sail to move around. So it's more like ballooning than airplanes.

Maybe you could be a witch (like Halcyon). Or you could ride around on a pterodactyl (like Mokofooja).



ice2215 said:
Element: Lightning

...

He hopes to create a genuine cloud to ground lightning bolt as an artillery spell, but such a thing is far beyond his current level of skill.
"Lightning strikes" are fundamentally a connection between a net positive charge in the ground and a net negative charge in the sky. Most strokes actually flow from the ground up to the sky, mechanically.

So you might have the most success quickly setting up a bounded field that allows you to manipulate the dipole potential of the area; push the current up from the ground to ionize the sky, and then explosively reconnect them.



linkhyrule5 said:
Structural Analysis: Spent far too much time building this up into something ridiculous. Paired with his Origin, allows him to analyze Mysteries and Wards. Mostly uses it for debugging, because he doesn't have the processing speed to do it in combat time. (High Int, low Wits, to use the White Wolf metaphor.)

...

That's basically his plotline: connecting with Argo, unraveling politics and deceptions and catching PKers, and later on scrying the upper floors and determining boss traits from afar.
Shirou's Structural Grasp is so good it bleeds over into psychometry, and he'd give it to you if you asked real nice. (Especially if you get involved with Argo and have her around to introduce you).

...Well, Cardinal has already had to figure out how to deal with it, so the game might give it to you and pass it off as an NPC skill...?



Revlid said:
What Elements: 4, 5 = Wood, Metal

What the fuck am I supposed to do with this? What's even a good link between Wood and Metal?
Leaving out the mystical mumbo-jumbo, equipments are made out of Wood and Metal. Right out of the gate you've got the best parameters for "gear buffs" with Reinforcement.

Revlid said:
Not building stuff on my own, and not improving existing stuff, but coming up with my own components to replace parts of existing stuff?
Sounds like [Alteration]. Well, if it's magic-users who are predisposed for Alteration, the first one I think of is Yumi, especially since you started talking about (spiritual) surgery and stuff.

...

Based on the other stuff you've said (about being unenthusiastic about direct participation in battle but feeling obligated to help) let's make your job right after the Official Launch [Enchanter].

You sit by the exit to the [Safe Zone] and use [Reinforcement] to improve people's gear; it lasts for hours, so at least until they come back for Lunch (when you can re-apply it). Because of your traits, you're naturally better at it than most Players.

It's not the same as a Crafter or Blacksmith exactly, but you'll be in a really good place to start in on Mystic Codes once those are added...?


Sunder the Gold said:
But his only real talent might be "Improving Talents".
That's basically what Kayaba does!
 

ice2215

Well-Known Member
daniel_gudman said:
ice2215 said:
Element: Lightning

...

He hopes to create a genuine cloud to ground lightning bolt as an artillery spell, but such a thing is far beyond his current level of skill.
"Lightning strikes" are fundamentally a connection between a net positive charge in the ground and a net negative charge in the sky. Most strokes actually flow from the ground up to the sky, mechanically.

So you might have the most success quickly setting up a bounded field that allows you to manipulate the dipole potential of the area; push the current up from the ground to ionize the sky, and then explosively reconnect them.
Good to know, I'm no good at writing fanfics though, so if you ever run out of characters in FRO, feel free to use the one I made in any way you see fit.
 

Garahs

Well-Known Member
So I've been thinking about item creation using my elements of fire, water, and ether. Does the concept of food based buffs exist in SAO? I'm thinking fire and ether to prepare ingredients and cooking them to the desired effect. Water and ether would obviously be for drinks. Possibly all 3 for things like sauces.

Probably try 'safe' stat boosts to start, then branch off to status resistances to status effects. Might have a longer effect duration than potions since it would have a longer digestion time?
 

Deathwings

Well-Known Member
Garahs said:
So I've been thinking about item creation using my elements of fire, water, and ether. Does the concept of food based buffs exist in SAO? I'm thinking fire and ether to prepare ingredients and cooking them to the desired effect. Water and ether would obviously be for drinks. Possibly all 3 for things like sauces.

Probably try 'safe' stat boosts to start, then branch off to status resistances to status effects. Might have a longer effect duration than potions since it would have a longer digestion time?
Any buff would have to be explainable as a form of magecraft. And at this point, you may as well stick to good old alchemy, as I simply do not see what cooking would add to the common alchemical process of making potions.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
Garahs said:
Does the concept of food based buffs exist in SAO?
In canon, yes... kindof; Asuna and Kirito got a temporary luck bonus from eating some cheesecake after getting to the second floor. That was in "Rhondo of the Transient Sword", which wasn't in the novel series proper, but instead, when Reki went back to flesh out the arc.

Well, if it's nonmagical, Kayaba already turned it off.

As for food and magecraft...

Well, when you get down to it, isn't the difference between "Cooking" and "Potion-making" simply that you incorporate spells into the second one?

There was also a skill called [Medicine-mixing] that only ever showed up as an item on Kuradeel's character sheet without any further mention.

I'm going to have Johnny's approach to [Human Reinforcement] be, basically, [Performance Enhancing Drugs]. That's getting a little off topic compared to here, though.

Something like "absorbing the strength of the creature you're eating" might be where you get some overlap between cooking and necromancy or something; whether it's a one-off, something you constantly maintain by doing it every day, or a permanent bonus probably depends on the spell or ritual.

In Fate, the way Rin activated Shirou's Circuits was by giving him a gem to swallow and digest, right?

There's plenty of room for magecraft related to food, because food has deep, important placement in mythology. Especially fruit; there are lots of legends that involve fruit.

Well, I guess I'm saying "totally go for it", but I haven't done the wiki walks to really research what myths you'd have to incorporate as backstory, so I'd send you on that adventure for fluff research.
 

Ryune

Well-Known Member
Deathwings said:
Garahs said:
So I've been thinking about item creation using my elements of fire, water, and ether. Does the concept of food based buffs exist in SAO? I'm thinking fire and ether to prepare ingredients and cooking them to the desired effect. Water and ether would obviously be for drinks. Possibly all 3 for things like sauces.

Probably try 'safe' stat boosts to start, then branch off to status resistances to status effects. Might have a longer effect duration than potions since it would have a longer digestion time?
Any buff would have to be explainable as a form of magecraft. And at this point, you may as well stick to good old alchemy, as I simply do not see what cooking would add to the common alchemical process of making potions.
One can consider cooking to be the oldest ritual in existence next to hunting. The big thing though is that a ritual like this would also need something like ritualistically hunting your prey, killing it, then cooking it. It would be a very time consuming and effort intensive process but it may merit quite nice rewards. It would also tie in quite well with making mystic codes out of the remains of said hunt. The big thing though is for any possible improvements from this to either be permanent or last significantly longer than it took to create. So we are looking at semi-perminent to at least a year in length of effect. Which means the person who uses it has to do the deed and the ritual themselves.
 

Abendroth

Well-Known Member
OK, here's my next attempt at another one of Ilya's pokemon. Free associating here:
Bottle.
Glass
Mirror.
That sounds almost right. Prism?
No, mirror is closer, but still feels not quite right. Kind of artificial. Of course, Sword doesn't really fit in with the other elements either.
Ah, Light!
Light is perfect.
OK, that means laser beams and holograms in combat. For scouting, telescopic vision and making light bend around corners. Laser swords and holographic HUD in the future. Blindness/dazzle spells. Ilya suggests turning the enemy's eyes invisible as a better way to blind them than trying to bend light away from their head? No wave-particle duality nonsense because this is magic Light, not science, and he doesn't understand quantum physics well enough to invent any magic that could genuinely take advantage of those properties anyway.

Maybe they glow a lot when doing magic, even when trying not to? Maybe someone who was trying to play a sneaky ninja build, and is really frustrated by all the glowing? Well, someone with the element of Light would be on the forefront of trying (and failing) to invent a true invisibility. Maybe the glowing just adds insult to injury?

Though, maybe instead of a personality that contrasts with the abilities, maybe one that complements it? So an extremely straightforward kind of person, a real knight in shining armor type. The kind of person who would have been aiming to join Diabel's Paladins. But maybe that just made Ilya more determined to snipe him of for herself? She probably had to bribe them with something.

I like that better. A heavy armor fighter, probably a tank, prone to rushing in and being excessively bold. Now, these people need to be quirky and hard to deal with. Hmm, as someone who wants to be a knight, perhaps they get a little too into it, being all Chivalrous at Asuna and the ladies? And Rosalita just encourages him because she's manipulative like that. Oh man, I can see the conversation between Asuna and Rosalita, Asuna saying how she should have some pride as a woman and do things for herself, and Rosalita countering that why should she do things when she can get boys to do it for her. If you really want to have it burn she can say something about how being too proud to accept help is bad for teamwork, so isn't Asuna really hurting the group? It depends how good Rosalita is at these games.

Maybe to make matters harder to deal with it's actually a super-young kid, so Asuna can't just verbally rip him to shreds. Though that might make Rosalita's manipulation of him less amusing. Really though, Asuna could probably handle a non-Ilya kid easily.

Ah, even better. Someone who's coped with the stress of the Death Game by throwing themselves into their role as a knight. To make matters worse, they are consciously baseing themselves off of King Arthur and the Knights of the round table. Shirou gets all weird whenever it comes up.

Well, since I mentioned the excessive chivalry thing I've been assuming this person is male, but if we drop that it could be a female. Maybe Crossplaying? In the 4koma there was that guy who wound up ridiculously good at crossplaying as a girl, so maybe the same in reverse? Or not, that might seem a bit too contrived with the deliberate Arthurian focus. Yeah, definitely not, or people with shipping goggles are going to start thinking that she's Saber's reincarnation or something.

Anyway, I hope this is more along the lines of what you're looking for.
 

Abendroth

Well-Known Member
Double Post
I was going to the rest of the personality unspecified, but I had some ideas so I thought I might as well write them down.

As for age, I think making him older than Asuna would make him harder to deal with so let's go with that. Probably about the same age as Rosalia.

In order to own an expensive prototype game system he would have to be either well off, or to have no life outside games. I don't want to go on about everything he's left behind, but " geek with no life" seems to have already been covered. Maybe he has a good job but he doesn't like it?

Yes, he works in the finance industry. He's an accountant. His family isn't rich, but they have a few connections, so he has a moderate leg up already. The pay is good and everybody says he should be happy about his great prospects, but he's not satisfied with it. At the end of the day, all he's done is shuffle some numbers from one spreadsheet to some other spreadsheets, describing things that he'll never see, or that don't exist anywhere but in a pile of legal documents.

He's a pretty good accountant, with a good head for numbers, and a levelheaded assessment of possibilities. That doesn't quite fit with the overly bold behavior I described earlier, does it. Just saying "well he becomes more reckless because the Death Game is different" seems lazy. Being an accountant, he's very good at the spreadsheet min/maxing portion of the game, and probably at predicting things like how many more attacks it will take to kill a monster, or how much damage a player can take. This makes him a genuinely good tank, so it's hard to dismiss him as just an annoying idiot. Maybe, instead of charging in recklessly, he throws himself in front of attacks directed at female party members even when it's not actually necessary? Which can mean he's actually getting in the way.


He's not happy to be trapped in SAO, but the satisfaction he feels from knowing that he has accomplished something, protected someone directly, is how he keeps going.

EDIT: Almost forgot. Since he views himself as protecting people, he might be a Sixth Ranger fanboy, so when Ilya tries to bribe him with a sword to join her he thinks "Wait, I get to be in a guild with the Sixth Ranger? SUPERHERO TIME!" I wonder what kind of advice Shirou would give him about being a knight.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
So this is kind of taking the piss out of you from the very first paragraph, but Light (as in "photons") is the best candidate I have right now for Captain Eyeballs' Element. I mean, if there's something else that matches for her, then fine, but "Light" is, practically, taken.

Anyway, I wanted to see if I could find an online dictionary that would randomly pick a word from syntactic categories (ie, concrete nouns, ideally "natural" as well), but I couldn't find one, so I started thinking about downloading wordnet to hack together something for myself, and that is maybe more work than I want to do.

Well, I was brainstorming what would be useful, so here's a list of specific Rare Elements that I pulled together during a scatterbrained wikiwalk, and also I'll unpack what made them interesting to me; maybe some of you would enjoy walking even farther down this garden path than I.


1) Alkanes
I'm actually liking this better than "Dust"; it's similar because it's something that's equally limited, but still directly powerful (alkanes are dangerously flammable), but still has lots of subtle uses (they're also structural precursors in lots of polymer compounds). However, "Dust" (or "Sand" etc) pretty much always shows up eventually in a show about Ability Users, so I'd like to avoid doing something that could go stale quickly.


2) Triangle
Compared to "Imaginary Numbers", a concept that you could call "discovered" as much as you could call it "invented."

I like it because I imagined myself with it, having no idea what to do -- until the Bounded Field patch was announced, and suddenly I'm OP. So I might give it to someone that wanted to be a Front Liner but got discouraged because their wacky alignment screwed them over in the early game, but now they suddenly have lots of potential.

...I was thinking of giving it to Nishida, but maybe I'll mention one of the guys in Fuurinkazan has it instead, to establish why they're particularly good at Bounded Fields among Front Liners.

"Circle" sounded too powerful, I suppose?


3) Sound ("compressional waves", as opposed to "transverse waves")
The sensory medium less obvious than "light".


4a - 4c) Sulpher, Mercury, or Salt
The "philosophical" elements proposed by Jabir ibn Hayyan, an extremely famous alchemist.

So any of these might be "common" Rare Elements like Lightning or Demons or whatever.


5) Weather
As in, atmospheric phenomena; literally, the elements outside. Well-suited to large-scale rituals, probably weak in direct combat.


6) Noble Gas
I got literal minded and thought about the Periodic Table, and how maybe the groups with trivial names could be considered "Elements" in a sense comparable to how it was used in the medieval era. Anyway, Group 18 (Mendeleev 0) on the far right occurred to me first; it's the closest thing to an "anti-Element" I can imagine since the identifying property they have is "they don't react."

Well, on the other hand, Argon is used to suppress chemical reactions you don't want (eg, oxidation during hot work), but since it's heavier than air, it will can settle into a closed space, displace oxygen, and asphyxiate you to death (also it's colorless and odorless). So there's that going for it.

...But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron....


7a - 7e) Triels, tetrels, pnictogens, chalcogens, halogens
Continuing the theme of number 6: Groups 13- 17 on the Period table. I leave looking up their special properties as an exercise to someone interested in them, or rather, that's an entire essay worth of content maybe, so I'll leave it out).

Group 12 is nicknamed the "Coinage Metals" (not an IUPAC recommended nickname), which didn't really do anything for me, but I can see where that might pique someone else's fancy.


8) Moon
Honestly this was that same segment of the wiki-walk that lead to thinking about the real (periodic table) elements (got there via a link to KREEP), but after thinking about it, an element of "Moon" might be interesting, either as a more abstract category like "natural satellites", or as a reference to "Earth's Moon" specifically, with all the Nasu!Lore such a connection implies available to such a character.

(Going from here to "Sun" as a Rare Element was too obvious for this list, although it's certainly a choice for someone interested in rolling up a character).


9) Mesophase
I was thinking about "ice" (calling back to "Weather) but wanted to expand it from just "solid-phase water" to "compounds below their boiling points", then thought about how I wasn't enthusiastic about "Glass" because it was too obvious, and then realized "Mesophase" would be rad: something that is transitional between a formal solid or formal liquid, like a gelatin, or liquid crystals.

I dunno how useful exactly this would be (on the other hand cell membranes are mesophases so you could do horrifying things to organisms like melt people, a-la Gokukoku no Brynhildr, if you tampered with that), but my biggest concern is that even if it could be a cool power, it doesn't have a punchy name.


Digression: Warning, this gets weird, by which I mean I started free-associating to things I happen to know about biology. That is to say, there is science, and it's... graphic.
Somehow I got to the article on ecofeminism. I'm not qualified to speak to the feminist credentials of the authors, but they don't seem to know any biology.

That got me thinking about how most biomass doesn't participate in sex (maybe I'll have Kayaba snip Circuits into short circles, strip out the factors like human emotion and individuality that cause rejection, and transplant them between people like plasmids! Maybe I'll do something like that as Kuradeel's ultimate Sorcery Trait, just call it friggin' F-factor-Analogue).

Those organisms that DO participate in sex don't really have experiences that map onto ours. For example: plants are more common than animals and they disseminate gametes, often by bribing intermediary animals. That gives me an idea for something like a weird eroge that maps flowering plant sexuality onto human-looking things, or just to explain by Uncanny Valley analogies what "experiences that don't map onto ours" means: Alrunes have sex with each other by seducing men into carrying spores from "male" Alrunes to "female" Alrunes (they all look female to humans though because that's how they seduce "us" into doing it for them); or maybe they have a "male" hole and a "female" hole. Of course they could (and do) simply transmit genes directly, but their biological programming means they derive sexual pleasure from seducing the human because that's the specific act that their hormones evolved to encourage so they would propagate. Ah, and maybe male Alrune gametes could competitively inhibit competitor 'sperm' while sporulated on the human penis?

Or maybe just leave out that I'm talking about octopuses while describing reproduction:
The male rips off the arm with his genitals in it and presents it to the female, and she inserts it into her vagina and leaves it there until she's pregnant. Their hormones change; the male engages in extremely risky foraging behavior (usually he ends up eaten by a predator), and the female just straight-up stops eating and guards her young until she finally starves to death.

Alternating generations: This is so common, I'm not even sure which example to go with. One of the fungal phyla? Perhaps a nice fern. Well, it's pretty simple: odd generations have one set of chromosomes, and even generations have two sets of chromosomes). So for humans, even generations would have sexes: XX, XY; while odd generations would have sexes: X, Y. You couldn't breed with someone of a "nonmatching" (odd/even) generation, and there is usually dimorphism: for example, single-chromosome generations might be relatively small and have a different body plan, like alternating dogs/humans, or something. Which, having wrote that sentence, I know realize could also cater to some fetishes with the whole "women giving birth to puppies" thing...? Well it would also have the corollary of "dogs birthing humans"; I'm not sure if that's more or less weird. The Circle of Life!

Well, I also thought about mapping horizontal gene transfer onto humans, but that turned into hybridized vore + gore porn + necrophilia pretty damn quick, like after translating the concept into human-centric pictures in my imagination, but before putting it in words; that quick. I should have known bacteria were too hardcore for eukaryotes, let alone mammals (like us!).

That is when I realized I was getting off topic.

Somehow this didn't happen when I instantly recognized the iron/carbon diagram in the Phases (matter) article, or rather, it didn't end up sounding like nightmares.


10) Nightmare
Similar to "Demon" or "Holy"; an element that's more like human belief than a facet of the universe.
How did I get here? Click the spoiler tag to find out... if you dare!


So there's 10 Rare Elements to use as prototypes.

Oh yeah, and Happy Halloween, I guess.
 

Abendroth

Well-Known Member
daniel_gudman said:
So this is kind of taking the piss out of you from the very first paragraph, but Light (as in "photons") is the best candidate I have right now for Captain Eyeballs' Element. I mean, if there's something else that matches for her, then fine, but "Light" is, practically, taken.
Rassum frassum, argh. 0 for 2, huh? And "Eye" is too human, "Sight" isn't concrete enough. "Aether" is probably too similar to light, though as an imaginary medium it could be a good name for a more esoteric element, similar to Holy or Imaginary Numbers.

Speaking of, since Holy and Demon are the two most common Rare Elements, are either of them going to show up? Well, I suppose Paladin-boy's personality could be transplanted onto a Holy user easily enough, even if the name is kind of misleading.

These are my first thoughts. If I come up with anything else good I'll let you know.

Well for Triangle, the first thing that comes up is o/~Triangle Man, Triangle Man, o/~

Nightmare makes me think Dream, which makes me think of a guy who, on finding out his element is Dream, immediately changes his name to Morpheus and gets all Sandman.

As for Mesophase, you could call it "Thresholds" so it's all about the boundries between things, things that are neither one nor the other. Or you could give it one of those nonsensical names like "Imaginary Numbers" which somehow translates as "Having to do with Ghosts" or something.
 

linkhyrule5

Well-Known Member
I once used "Tide" for boundaries and differentials, if that helps.

And if you like "Light" as an element, then you can contrast between "physical light" - the concept of physical illumination, making things radiate, reflect, trasmit light in a different way - and "conceptual light" - conceptual illumination. This would kind of touch on my Truthcraft that I'll never actually write - creating accurate knowledge ex nihilo, becoming enlightened, making things clear for others, perfect communication, that sort of thing. A really straightforward Element, that moves from point A to point B by the most efficient path (even if, perhaps, that path would normally be impossible...)
 

Revlid

Well-Known Member
Moon would be sweet for certain hypnotic effects, sending people crazy. Probably also for transformative effects - it's closely linked to Water, after all.

...actually, given that the Moon is a separate World - albeit one that's clearly "related" to Earth, given that Aldrin, Armstrong and Collins didn't go bonkers while up there - I wonder what the implications of having it as an Element would be? Could a human of Earth have "Venus" as an Element? Type weirdness, anyway.

It's a clear Touhou ripoff, but Waves would be a fun Rare Element. Absurdly broad, if you knew how to use it.

My tendency is to head for less "scientific" and more "mythic" stuff for elements, so I'd have never thought of anything like a specific family of hydrocarbons. I sort of wonder what the less literal applications of an element that specific would be - or if a more traditional magus might diagnose a Rare Element differently to a more scientifically-engaged one?

"Memory" would be an interesting Element, especially since it probably encompasses apparitions.
 

linkhyrule5

Well-Known Member
With regards to "Memory," I'm put in mind of Overlooking View, where the memories/records of a location are inaccurate, so ghosts appear.

That would be an interesting Mystery, certainly. Falsifying the memories of places - leading into "change history and you change the past" type abilities?
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
Odd thought: 'Mystery' as a [Rare Element]. Not sure that would work, but if so, conversations about it could get amusingly confusing.

Perhaps as an Origin?
 

wakshazi

Well-Known Member
Ug, that is going to be a pain to work with. A person who embodies the concept of mystery is going to be well....... a mystery. The only people i know in nasu with ID'd origins are Shirou: sword and shiki from kara: void. shirou embodies the single focus for lack of a better word of sword and shiki's original personality is so negligible we see it once in the book at the end, and she says it is pretty much a one time deal then.

Edit: decided to roll up a character, also are we supposed to keep the 6s and add new roles or just use the re-roll?

Name: Wakshazi (it broke yet)
Circuit count: 24
Circuit Quality: 21
Capacity: 504
Elements: Earth, Water (Western)
Specialty School: Runes

I am of two minds for this concept, water and earth are two elements i usually don't work with. I also am unsure of what one can actually do with these elements.

A: restorer. Healer that uses earth for instant fortifications to heal wounded. Uses illusions for misdirection and concealment. Uses a "treacherous earth" approach using sinkholes, quicksand, and traps, but mainly support. Main weapon: wakshazi- because i like iorny. (Front liner)

B: Da tank. Uses runes and earth affinity to improve armor and defense, compliments this with use of illusions to not get hit and healing to keep him in a fight. This guy does not go down. Uses heavy armor, tower shield, and short sword.
 

Abendroth

Well-Known Member
So, before I maybe take another run at this I have a question. Are you looking more for list of Magecraft abilities associated with the element, or for personalities to associate with them?
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
To be glib, both. Or rather, go nuts; this is a forum game as much as a brainstorming thread (for me), so just put down whatever you want, write whatever catches your imagination.
 

Tyrantviewer

Well-Known Member
Okay I will break it up into several posts but here are my thoughts
On guns
The guy earlier that said he would make guns so he could level the playing field has a point- but I don’t think it would work
First the point is that the first guns removed the need for lengthy training, like a knight or samurai would have, to be a force on the battle field, not eliminate the need for training or skilled individuals, but making even untrained people dangerous.
Formations of musket users could mow down similarly numbered foes beyond melee range, and the technology only got more deadly from there.
A similar thing could happen with the right mystic code, put in prana (no advanced manipulation or elemental affinity required) and get a deadly attack. With ranged weapons becoming a thing in SAO archer squads may form, and with a mystic code, which needs no skill to be leveled up to use it, only prana (which may even cease to be a factor if someone figures out how to make a mana potion like ammo) would replace them if the damage was high enough, then you could have huge squads of low level players mow down similar numbers of enemies.
This sounds good on paper but wouldn’t work in FRO. The kind of mystic code I describe could be made, maybe even in great numbers, but unlike in real wars were the enemies were also humans and the only factors were numbers, resources and tactics, Aincraid has disproportionly tough monsters. Even if the mystic code could mow down monsters like the orcs, in a few floors the monsters would be too tough for doing that to be safe, the monsters would reach the gunmen before going down, and that is even if such a reproducible code could be made to do enough damage to be useful without the prana cost going too high for it to be useful.
And if guns or something similar ever did arise, the many and varied anatomies and abilities of Aincraid’s monsters would mean some of them would be immune not just resistant, either due to the monster’s biology (like the slime for plain bullets or some other monster for exotic projectiles or energy attacks) or tactics (jumping around too much for rifle men to get a bead on them) and Cardinal could just tweak the next floors monsters to ensure that would happen.
IN any case I don’t think mass produced guns would work, but a niche of magical projectile mystic codes sounds like a distinct possibility, or even just enchanted ammunition for the now available bows

sorry that was longer than I meant when I started
[hr]
On familiars
This would be an area I would jump on right away as soon as it became available. I would try to Frankenstein my way into having the most effective familiar, and as soon as I could try to create living ones.
Is that possible, in canon there are familiars that are autonomous to one degree or another, but are any of them living beings that eat and sleep and reproduce? The closest I know of are either spirits that don’t count, or Zoken’s bugs, which I think are alive but have no idea if they are just animated (He would be skilled enough to do either knowing him)
If I could I would want to do that, working with people like silica or that slime mage to use a living being instead of a corpse to make into a familiar, or with just people like the slime mage, experiment with various monster parts to make creatures life like, I envision a familiar with the bones and hide coming from various beasts with all organs replaced with a mix of slime essences, arranged to imitate the different organ systems. (if you make a familiar out of a slime, could you make it have the slime’s special ablilities?, like an acidic green famliliar or one that casts spells like the yellow, violet, indigo and orange slimes?, I would totally give my familiar a healing indigo circulatory system to go with it’s mixed green and blue digestive system, with orange lineing the mouth so it has a breath attack)
If I could I would want a crow or raven like familiar, as intelligent and self-sufficient as I could make it. If I could make living animals into familiars I would try to do it to a small flock of crows or ravens, most likely crows, when I got into doing magic after the game, trying to make a group of intelligent self sufficient helpers to look out for me, think intelligent spys/lookouts, with what ever offensive abilities I could given them on top of that, continuing to make later generations of the flock into the same, improving on them with half breeding and half improved methods.
I bet it would be easier to make living familiars self supporting prana wise, so if I could improve and simplify the process enough the flock would be entirely self maintaining, in which case I would have made what ever it the next step, or several steps, down from phantasmal beast. It would also solve the ethical dilemma of intelligent familiars, because if they are alive on there own the worst cutting off the prana would do is take away their intelligence, horrible but not fatal, and even if they didn’t produce enough odd on there own or have some other way of getting prana, it would be easier to do that than make an intelligent living familiar so I think the magus at this point could easily add it on and just release them, in fact if this became an issue he could just do that every time, only adding in the dangerous mondifications like weapons or spells after the familiar agrees to work for him

Way longer than planned
 

Tyrantviewer

Well-Known Member
Well here is the first of a two part extra long post
On What I would do
I actually wrote up a character, is will try to summarize it but first some clarification.
If I had traditional elements, I would probably try to recreate whatever effects for games or books I that I could and build around what ever worked, If I was an average one I would try to make my own version of the magika system (from the game of the same name) simple spells of different elements meant to combine together in specific ways, with the more advanced spells being more refined combinations (i.e. haste would combine wind, fire and ether to accelerate me, my belongings, and the air immediately around me simultaneously)


If I had compatable elements however I would try to focus on biology effecting mage craft Like Spectrum, and that guy who knew Reiki thought of.
NAME- Tyrant (or Tyr if that felt too pretentious)
Element- blood
Circuits- (used daniel’s dice for this only) count-25 quality-22 capacity-550
Point spread- even, alternates 3,2 and 2,3 each level for strength and agility
Armor- Light, Mail preferably
Weapon- spear or other polearm
Role- Wandering Midliner- tries out crafting, gathering and frontline support, he focuses on his magic but as he discovers different uses he tries different roles, crafting to try out different ideas for spells, gathers for mats or funds, grinds more to try out spells than raise level, would be much lower level if he didn’t get that bonus magic exp, helps out with groups like Thinker’s guild occasionally, but never motivated to join, would jump at the chance to join the BSM, Ilya is adorable (personally the fact that she can squash some raid bosses almost solo only makes her cuter)
Magic- styles himself as a blood mage, focusing on manipulating biology or using biology as a medium for more esoteric effects

Basically I would have gotten over the whole death game once I started trying out the magic, I would have tried out all I could do with the basics, but not really gone anywhere because of the bittersweet nature of my element. Before the fifth floor blood would have been lame as a rare element, it has no dangerous qualities, and any useful ablilities are blocked because nothing has any real anatomy to effect. At that point I made a few spells using alteration and reinforcement on my psychogenesis created (At that point it was the first blood spilled or existing in Aincraid weirdly enough) and tk manipulated blood, made a few rather weak spells (blood bullet, blood blade, injection) that lag behind both sword skills and traditional elements, start on a blood orient variant of cure, and try to find something he could do
My circuit trigger would be a heart starting to beat. I am the sort that likes to examing game lore so after hearing from the magic tutors that the various circuit activation methods were due to finding the suitable mindset, he tried to develop his own mental magical framework, which finally clicked when he discovered runes. Runes could do the most complex effects at that point, with only experience and creativity limiting someone, following his vague ideas of cosmic energy flow he developed a primitive magical theory of the world as an organism, or rather a macrocosm microcosm biologically equivalent theory. He pictured spells (runes) as tissues and organs and prana as blood, natural magic phenomenon would then be the results of this existing on a global scale (leylines instead of circuits).
He had interesting progress using prana infused blood for runes, he could set them up with tk and they were more potent and efficient for him than regular runes. He really started progressing on the fifth floor, spending a lot of time experimenting on zombies, perfecting more elemental spells.
 

Tyrantviewer

Well-Known Member
Here is the rest


Spells- I had the idea to name the spells in german, as a week sort of aria, I imagine just asking argo to put me in contact with someone who spoke german
Stoffwechsel (metabolism)- basicall generate od and absorb mana simultaneously, infusing excess into the blood (after floor 5) or releasing it into the air, the idea to to reach a homeostasis where the overal prana is stable, originally the idea was to act like a prana battery for a party, which he can by channelin it through blood to a friend with some preparation
Soul-Schiff (soul vessel)- basically a transferance of prana, it needs a channel so outside of direct touch (or preferably blood contact) other magecraft is needed for it to be used at range
Thrombose (thrombosis) - uses elemental magic as a medium to interupt magic- first gain a connection via blood or injection then infuse the blood of the enemy with prana and have the prana „congeal“ this prana will act as a obstacle to drawing in or expelling prana, or manipulating it in general, standard circulation of prana can end the effect but the vary nature of the curse makes manipulating prana that way difficult
His reinforcement and alteration variants just focus on using blood as a storage for prana, and a medium to improve their potentcy because of that, or altering weapons to work with blood (attract blood) or make blood a weapon (eisen blut (iron blood) made his bullets and blade of blood effective as attacks but more so as a way to get blood into a target)
Everything else was specialized tk, with or without sword skills, until you start adding Blut Runen (blood runes) the right rune written in blood inside his other spells (turn blood from a bullet into a rune and trigger it, sharpen a blood blade, ignite a cloud of blood)
Overall he is an average combatant, he might be able to be on the frontlines, but mostly as a support healer/ harrier (bleed and damage over time effects)

Plot- he is most interested in exploring how thaumaturgy works, especially what he can do with his element, he is eager to learn alchemy when it becomes available even though he is doing well with runes, he would jump to join the BSM for the chance to work with Ilya and Hexidecimal (how well known is the eye thing, or his apprenticeship?) as well as to learn about magecraft in general, he would be one on the more knowledgeable players on the subject if he wasn’t so preoccupied with his own magic and if there weren’t actual mages in the game.

Ideas post game- use healing spells to speed up recovery while trying to learn Japanese so I can go visit my friends from the game as soon as my family stops being freaked out by me leaving (use reinforcement on my brain after using structural grasp to see what it can take to learn the language faster) His goal is to meet up with his in game comrades to help them heal, or with the clock tower if he knows by that point (I see shirou or Ilya revealing near the end game if no one figures it out, or Kayaba doesn’t leave clues or outright tell them)
Long term after the game, use magic to get medical degree easier, find job that allows for subtle and frequent opportunities for magecraft, and also frequent medical and biological oddities and afflictions to study
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
Tyrantviewer said:
Element- blood
When I first read this, I was like, "eh, it's okay, I guess."

Then

Tyrantviewer said:
Stoffwechsel (metabolism)- basicall generate od and absorb mana simultaneously, infusing excess into the blood (after floor 5) or releasing it into the air, the idea to to reach a homeostasis where the overal prana is stable, originally the idea was to act like a prana battery for a party, which he can by channelin it through blood to a friend with some preparation
I was like, oh man, this has so much going on, that I never even thought of before.

First, using the Lesser and Greater Source at the same time is unique, I've never seen anyone make up anything doing that before. I mean, I dunno if it would be better or worse, but it's interesting because it's different.

And then

"infuse excess into blood"

that line really got me thinking. Because, blood is a thick conductor of prana canonically; that's why it's useful as a transfer medium for rituals, and why vampires feed on it to efficiently extract human od.

So it actually makes sense that it wouldn't be too hard to use [Alteration] to turn your blood into a reservoir for prana, like a liquid-phase battery.

Turning your body into one big pot to hold prana... isn't that kind of similar to the [Lesser Grail] Trait that Ilya is trying to pull out?

So someone with the [Blood] Element, that uses that spell, the Sorcery Trait that Ilya would make up for them is really obvious. Ah, and removing it to reinstall a "better" version over and over again, what a good cover for experimenting.

Have I talked myself into stealing your [Blood] Element to use for Kuradeel?
 
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