Nasuverse All Casters

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grant

Well-Known Member
#26
#26
OK, then who gets Caster-Sakura, if anyone does?
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Sakura of course, and then Guardian Servant Sakura drops a bridge on Shinji (which appears to be the only sure way to get rid of him).

All of this is made much more interesting by the competing agendas of the Servants, i.e. Kaleido Ruby wants Rin to embrace her magical girl side and date Shirou, Servant Sakura wants Master Sakura to stand up for herself and take Shirou by force if necessary, Guardian EMIYA either wants to get together with at least one of the Rin's or Sakura's or if he's more intelligent a way to solve the mess without seeing Fuyuki go up in flames (again) this time at the hands of a furious rejected Caster.

Speaking of Illya, is there any plausibility in the thought of future-Illya becoming a Counter-Guardian?
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Ilya probably could manage it, look at what she endured in the months before the War started, compared to that it would be hard for the impending destruction of humanity to slow her down.
 
Prince Charon

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#27
#27
Hmm, who replaces Lancer, I wonder? Zelretch, perhaps? Would he save Bazette? If not, how quickly would he drive Kotomine mad?

So, Sakura gets Sakura, might Illya get Illya? OTOH, both Heracles and Medea are Greek legends, so perhaps Illya gets Caster Medea. (EDIT: Also, Illya was trying for Berserker, and Medea once went mad, so even though she's still a Caster, she's got another similarity to the Servant Illya was going for.)
 
A

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#28
#28
How could Ilya possibly become a Counter GARdian? She expires a year after the end of the Fifth Grail War.
 
S

Shiakou

Well-Known Member
#29
#29
Amodelsino said:
How could Ilya possibly become a Counter GARdian? She expires a year after the end of the Fifth Grail War.
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In Fate timeline, yes. In UBW she is killed by Gilgamesh during the war, and in HF she sacrifices herself for Shirou. For the same reason that we have Archer Emiya Shirou and Kaleido Ruby Rin, an Ilya from another timeline or dimension could survive to become a Counter Guardian.
 
A

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#30
#30
Not if she's still a Homunculus she can't. She was made to expire.

It would have to be really AU for her to not be a Homunculus, and in that case I don't see how she'd be living a life that would lead to her becoming a Counter Guardian anyway.
 
S

Shiakou

Well-Known Member
#31
#31
Amodelsino said:
Not if she's still a Homunculus she can't. She was made to expire.

It would have to be really AU for her to not be a Homunculus, and in that case I don't see how she'd be living a life that would lead to her becoming a Counter Guardian anyway.
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Off the top of my head, I can think of two ways around that obstacle.

The first involve using the Grail's wish for Ilya to be human. It's a pretty obvious answer.

The second is transplanting Avalon's sheath from Shirou to Ilya. The regeneration would theoretically negate the degradation of her body. It came up during a fanfic discussion.

In any case, becoming a Counter Guardian only needs two things; a soul and a deal with the world. I'm pretty sure Ilya at least has a soul, and we don't know the requirements for negotiating with Gaia/Alaya.
 
G

grant

Well-Known Member
#32
#32
In any case, becoming a Counter Guardian only needs two things; a soul and a deal with the world. I'm pretty sure Ilya at least has a soul, and we don't know the requirements for negotiating with Gaia/Alaya.
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It doesn't seem to be that difficult for a sufficiently powerful person as Emiya made it in time to save one hundred people.

As for the Grail it might be possible but it's stated that the Grail can only grant wishes by destroying things so it might be good to put in even a flashback of that. Giving her the sheath would make the most sense to me, or possibly blackmailing the Einzbern's into helping.
 
G

grant

Well-Known Member
#34
#34
Edit.
Never mind, pm me for it.
 
Prince Charon

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#35
#35
Erm, if Illya has an Avalon, that's three Avalons in the same time and location, isn't it? That would be odd, yes?

I wonder if CG!Illya's goal is to save Shirou, who died in her timeline, due to giving up Avalon, without getting any more cautious.
 
S

Shiakou

Well-Known Member
#36
#36
Prince Charon said:
Erm, if Illya has an Avalon, that's three Avalons in the same time and location, isn't it?? That would be odd, yes?
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Not as odd as having two Sabers in the Third War, yes? :snigger:

I wonder if CG!Illya's goal is to save Shirou, who died in her timeline, due to giving up Avalon, without getting any more cautious.
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I'd read it.

grant said:
As for the Grail it might be possible but it's stated that the Grail can only grant wishes by destroying things so it might be good to put in even a flashback of that. Giving her the sheath would make the most sense to me, or possibly blackmailing the Einzbern's into helping.
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Suggestion: In a reversal of their Heaven's Feel roles, the Grail grants Emiya Shirou's wish; that Illyasviel von Einzbern might have a chance to live as she wishes. In return, the Grail devours Shirou, using his own body and soul to mold a new, human, body for Ilya.
 
Prince Charon

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#37
#37
Shiakou said:
Suggestion: In a reversal of their Heaven's Feel roles, the Grail grants Emiya Shirou's wish; that Illyasviel von Einzbern might have a chance to live as she wishes. In return, the Grail devours Shirou, using his own body and soul to mold a new, human, body for Ilya.
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Interesting. Yeah, he'd do that. I could see her using her story to get Sakura and Sakura to ally with her, as their goals are compatible.
 
F

firestorm

Well-Known Member
#38
#38
hmm...

WI EINZBERN is from the 'Ilya route', same one producing EMIYA? After EMIYA left her to pursue his 'hero of justice' ideal (entirely plausible, see what Shirou did to Sakura in one of the HF Bad Ends), she made a contract with the world also to become a Servant (similar to Saber's) so that she could get the Grail and wish be with EMIYA again.

So then we have...

Servant EINZBERN from Ilya route with Ilya, Servant MATOU from HF with Sakura (cause we ALL know she's going to drop a bomb on Shinji), Servant TOHSAKA from UBW with Rin...it may be funnier to not have an EMIYA in this war, given that whichever storyline he's from, he's likely to stay with that line's heroine, removing most of the crack.

Hmm...Servant EMIYA from Isshin route? :p
 
Prince Charon

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#39
#39
firestorm said:
Hmm...Servant EMIYA from Isshin route? :p
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No, please.

How about EMIYA from a 'Pyrric Victory' timeline? He wins, but the girls die either during the war, or not long after (Illya possibly dies as per the Fate route), apart from Saber, who fades away like usual in routes where Rin isn't maintaining her. His goal is to make sure his girls live through the war, no matter the cost to himselves.

Might be interesting to have Bazett get this EMIYA, if she doesn't get Zelretch.

EDIT: Is it at all reasonable for Bazett, in a timeline where she lives, to make a Contract with Gaia? Given that, IIRC, Shirou has only one way to grant prana to a Servant, I'd rather not inflict a male Servant on him.

If not Bazett, Nimue and Morgan le Fey were mentioned earlier in the thread, and are from the same source-legend as Avalon, albeit a farther away than Arturia. I'd say Morgan was closer, so what might her goal be?
 
F

firestorm

Well-Known Member
#40
#40
So Fate route, except Rin gets it in the last attack on Shirou's house and Sakura has a horrible horrible accident involving a sword, a roll of toilet paper, and a spatula? Could be interesting.

Personally, I think having all the servants back to their past selves is more interesting. Besides, Archers have high Independent Action, so give the Pyrrhic Victory EMIYA Independent Action A (full independent action, no need for master) and call it a day.

I still want to see what MATOU does to Shinji, though.
 
L

lask

Well-Known Member
#42
#42
Amodelsino said:
Not if she's still a Homunculus she can't. She was made to expire.

It would have to be really AU for her to not be a Homunculus, and in that case I don't see how she'd be living a life that would lead to her becoming a Counter Guardian anyway.
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Type-Moon Homunculus normally live until they're killed - Illya's just flawed, she was the daughter of a Homunculus and a Magus, so funky things went on with her. Not that that changes anything.
 
A

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#43
#43
I'd rather see a Servant!Shirou resulting from Mind of Steel personally. I mean, he managed to take down everyone with only one arm and no servant, so he's definitely capable enough.

Maybe he became obsessed with the idea that the girls he killed didn't actually have to die to save everyone else, and made a contract to relive the 5th Heavens Feel?
 
T

twin blade

Well-Known Member
#45
#45
I think that's a BAD END from Heaven's Feel, where Shirou kills Sakura instead of abandoning his ideals. He then proceeds to slaughter all of the other Masters, including Rin and Ilya.
 
Prince Charon

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#47
#47
twin blade said:
I think that's a BAD END from Heaven's Feel, where Shirou kills Sakura instead of abandoning his ideals. He then proceeds to slaughter all of the other Masters, including Rin and Ilya.
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:huh!: :jawdrop: Whoa, dark. The revelation of that would change how Shirou looks at himself, no?
 
Prince Charon

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#48
#48
firestorm said:
Personally, I think having all the servants back to their past selves is more interesting. Besides, Archers have high Independent Action, so give the Pyrrhic Victory EMIYA Independent Action A (full independent action, no need for master) and call it a day.
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He's being summoned as a Caster, though.
 
Z

ZeroForever

Well-Known Member
#49
#49
just a random thought, can't remeber where i read it but don't at least 1 of each of the 3 original knight classes (saber/lancer/archer) have to be summoned. It's the other 4 that can any variation of the classes..
 
A

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#50
#50
Prince Charon said:
firestorm said:
Personally, I think having all the servants back to their past selves is more interesting. Besides, Archers have high Independent Action, so give the Pyrrhic Victory EMIYA Independent Action A (full independent action, no need for master) and call it a day.
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He's being summoned as a Caster, though.
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Other classes can still have independent action. Rider has C.
 
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