DragonAge:Origins+the reformed SOLDIER 1sts of FF7

Rabe

Well-Known Member
#1
I just started up Dragon age: Orgins and the Grey Wardens and the Fade kept reminding me of project Jenova's SOLDIER's and the Life stream.


So a few hundred years after things have calmed down on Planet Aerith Gainsborough hears the distant crying of the world of Dragon age and sends the retrieved and reformed Soldiers of the Shinra Electric company to help the Grey wardens
SOLDIER 1st Class General Sephiroth
SOLDIER 1st Class Commander Genesis Rhapsodos
SOLDIER 1st Class First Sergeant Angeal Hewley
SOLDIER 1st Class Zack Fair
Provisional SOLDIER 1st Class Cloud Strife

Lots of blood shed ensues I'm sure. If you've seen Advent Children use that as a base line for how they work in a grand Melee like the one Duncan went down in.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#2
:headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger: :headbanger:

That is all I will say. Also, do not pollute Dragon Age with FF7.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#3
Hmm . . . I don't think the two games match up well at all.

But if you wanted to do this, I'd suggest a pre-Crisis Core Genesis/Seph/Angeal, with a Zack who's being mentored to his full potential. And if you have Zack, you don't really need Cloud - Zack is essentially a likeable Cloud, without the wangst.

That way, you've got the tensions between the three Firsts, without the insanity inherent in degenerative Genesis, Jenova-Seph or I'm-a-Sphinx-Angeal. They don't always get on, but they're not about to blow up planets in a mako-peen competition.

They're all high-end, but they're not gamebreaking for DA or FF.

You'll need to consider if Materia will work on another planet, as well as how Jenova treated super soldiers will react to a different planet. Sephiroth in particular would probably be a high risk for being seduced by an Archdemon's mind-whispering schtick.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#4
All of them would be susceptible to Darkspawn taint, regardless. They are a liability in the end.

Also, the hell? The Fade is nothing like the Lifestream. The Fade is the dream world, pretty much. It just doesn't require dreamers to exist... and there are ways other than dreams to access it, though they tend to be detrimental to one's health to say the least.

Sephiroth being reformed is wanking of the highest order, anyway. The guy's irredeemable. Death hasn't made him any wiser to his own errors, if anything he's gotten worse. Might as well write him off as a lost cause.

EDIT: Using pre-CC Seph might work a bit better, admittedly. Except, of course, for the fact he's a bishie prettyboy, but nm.
 

Rabe

Well-Known Member
#5
The idea was Areith found a problem off world and the the solution could be shoehorned into a form group therapy for the SOLDIERs ( who are by now all centuries dead but not dissipating souls touched by Jenova) or kill them so of course she thought it would be a brilliant way to make the whole group work together, or not. She is a saint but even she thinks shes reaching her limits.


GenocideHeart Dragon Age is a good game I agree but it not going to eclipse the defining game of the 90's. I'm also not likely to write anything as I have very little talent at it so please don't get too bent out of shape over it.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#6
GenocideHeart said:
EDIT: Using pre-CC Seph might work a bit better, admittedly. Except, of course, for the fact he's a bishie prettyboy, but nm.
Yeah, I started playing Dissidia recently. Square have made every male character from every FF game an androgynous bishie. This shit is getting out of hand.

In terms of character builds, It's pretty clear that Sephiroth is all about speed and accuracy, Genesis is a magic build, and Angeal is a tank.

Even without Materia, Genesis can use magic - his Apocalypse doesn't even appear in FF7's magic system. Pre-Nibelheim Seph and Angeal don't do magic without Materia, either. So you could probably keep DA's NO MAGIC FOR NON-MAGES going on, too.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#7
Defining... game... of the 90s?

I could name a zillion games that were more important for videogaming in the Nineties than FFVII - Super Mario 64 in primis, without it 3D would never have become as popular as it is today and FFVII would have remained a pipe dream.

There's also Doom, Chrono Trigger (which popularized combination attacks, something several games would later improve upon), Super Metroid, Baldur's Gate, Civilization, Tekken, Street Fighter II...

FFVII's only real contribution was making CONSOLE ROLE PLAYING GAMES more mainstream (something that PC Role Playing Games had been for a long time already, so that was pretty much console only - it did nothing for PC, and in fact, it was horribly raped by PC games when it tried going head to head with them). Other than that, it offered a bland plot and graphics only slightly better than Toshinden's, and was massively overhyped and overrated.

Dragon Age is heads and shoulders above FFVII in plot alone, and it being more modern also means it drowns FFVII in its own blood from a technical standpoint. Plus, the characters actually feel like they have a personality, whereas most of the FFVII cast felt soulless, although not as much as FFVIII's.

Frankly, quite a few RPGs have ALREADY eclipsed FFVII's. Dragon Age is just the last in a long line, and not even the best, but easily bests it from all points of view except nostalgia.
 

Meinos Kaen

Well-Known Member
#8
trevelyan1983 said:
And if you have Zack, you don't really need Cloud - Zack is essentially a likeable Cloud, without the wangst.
Hmmm... I feel the need to oppose on this point, even if it's off-topic. If you have Zack you don't need Cloud? Well, I can oppose you on all fronts...

Personality:

Zack: Happy go lucky person, always mischievious and before meeting Aeris, and a bit after meeting her too, a casanova.

Pre-CC Cloud: Timid, shy, submissive. The perfect Uke. He doesn't laugh or joke around not because he's sad, but because the guy is embarassed of looking in the eyes even his own shadow.

FF7 Cloud: He goes through 3 phases.
1) Cold hearted mercenary. Sarcastic, uncaring, but with a soft spot for girls in distress, it seems.
2) Leader. Leading his group of heroes on a chase around the world for someone who should be dead and that he knows of being dangerous.
3) His memories restored, he's kinder and more easygoing than before, but still cautious, calculative, calm. A tactician. Now haunted by the guilt of not having been able to help his best friend and the love of his life, his mother, and THE WHOLE TOWN HE WAS BORN INTO. DOn't know about you, but I think that's a free coupon for at least four years of 'wangst'.

AC Cloud(After Movie): Now free of the guilt and he doesn't try to isolate himself from the world anymore, but he will miss Zack and Aeris for the rest of his life. Still prefers silence, but he smiles a bit more easily.

Now, on the other face of the medal.

Fighting Prowess:

Zack: First class soldier, one of the best warriors ever trained in Shinra. Stronger than Genesis and Angeal, but weaker than Sephiroth. Focuses his style on the buster sword but can use materia proficiently as well.

Cloud: Starts from Zack's memories, but eventually improves on them, since he does what no one else ever could: HE DEFEATS AND KILLS SEPHIROTH. Not once, not twice: THREE TIMES.

Master swordsman and a good magic user, in AC we see that other than the buster sword style, he has mastered at least one other style of swordfighting (two swords fighting, as showed in advent children).


So... I don't think Cloud is anything like Zack, sorry.
 

Rabe

Well-Known Member
#9
GenocideHeart said:
Defining... game... of the 90s?

I could name a zillion games that were more important for videogaming in the Nineties than FFVII - Super Mario 64 in primis, without it 3D would never have become as popular as it is today and FFVII would have remained a pipe dream.

There's also Doom, Chrono Trigger (which popularized combination attacks, something several games would later improve upon), Super Metroid, Baldur's Gate, Civilization, Tekken, Street Fighter II...

FFVII's only real contribution was making CONSOLE ROLE PLAYING GAMES more mainstream (something that PC Role Playing Games had been for a long time already, so that was pretty much console only - it did nothing for PC, and in fact, it was horribly raped by PC games when it tried going head to head with them). Other than that, it offered a bland plot and graphics only slightly better than Toshinden's, and was massively overhyped and overrated.

Dragon Age is heads and shoulders above FFVII in plot alone, and it being more modern also means it drowns FFVII in its own blood from a technical standpoint. Plus, the characters actually feel like they have a personality, whereas most of the FFVII cast felt soulless, although not as much as FFVIII's.

Frankly, quite a few RPGs have ALREADY eclipsed FFVII's. Dragon Age is just the last in a long line, and not even the best, but easily bests it from all points of view except nostalgia.
In your o so humble opinion I'm sure

Really tho it sounds like you might need to calm down just a little bit, it can't be good for you to be this tightly wound all the time.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#10
Meinos Kaen said:
So... I don't think Cloud is anything like Zack, sorry.
Yeah, because Cloud would be much more fun if he was.

He wasn't originally a broody emofag, you know. That's a Flanderization by Square in every appearance Cloud has after FF7.

I disagree on the topic of Cloud's combat skills, though. Looking at the Sephiroth examples that are always brought up;

Yes, he backstabbed Sephiroth once after Zack and Seph had a no-holds barred slugfest through the Nibelheim reactor. Then he defeated Monster Seph with his eight companions. Then he developed spontaneous magical powers at the end of AC so he could one-shot Summons, fly, and telekinetically control the seven blades of his First Tsurugi.

One's being sneaky, one's being a team player, and one's an ass-pull.
 

Rabe

Well-Known Member
#11
trevelyan1983 said:
Meinos Kaen said:
So... I don't think Cloud is anything like Zack, sorry.
Yeah, because Cloud would be much more fun if he was.

He wasn't originally a broody emofag, you know. That's a Flanderization by Square in every appearance Cloud has after FF7.

I disagree on the topic of Cloud's combat skills, though. Looking at the Sephiroth examples that are always brought up;

Yes, he backstabbed Sephiroth once after Zack and Seph had a no-holds barred slugfest through the Nibelheim reactor. Then he defeated Monster Seph with his eight companions. Then he developed spontaneous magical powers at the end of AC so he could one-shot Summons, fly, and telekinetically control the seven blades of his First Tsurugi.

One's being sneaky, one's being a team player, and one's an ass-pull.
Sorry but I'm going to have agree with Meinos Kaen here. I don't know when it started being cool to hate on the hero of the story but I never got on that boat.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#12
Rabe said:
In your o so humble opinion I'm sure

Really tho it sounds like you might need to calm down just a little bit, it can't be good for you to be this tightly wound all the time.
Name me one thing FFVII does better than Dragon Age.

Graphics? Nope, it shows its age, massively so.

Battle system? Dragon Age handles active battle a lot better than FFVII does, requiring you to actually coordinate your team's efforts instead of just selecting the strongest spell/attack you have available and letting loose. You actually feel challenge. Besides, ATB itself was done a lot better in FFX, and FFVII's ATB was essentially the same as in FFVI, down to even having Limit Breaks - although Limit Breaks in FFVI were a lot harder to trigger.

Character development? Uh. Hmhm. PffHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, couldn't resist. Anyway, no. DA spends a good half of its gametime carefully fleshing out the characters as events shape them and influence their view of the world, and even their attitude towards you - and the world itself - changes based on how you act, even causing some of them to outright dump you if your actions clash with their beliefs, or you could accomplish the opposite - changing their beliefs through example and persuasion. Compared to DA's, FFVII's character development is puny. In fact, FFVI did character development better anyway...

Plot? Both are cliched to hell at their core ("Let's save the world from the bad guy"). FFVII, however, goes the extra mile by adding an even more cliched Corrupt Corporation, whereas DA pulls a less cliched 'You aren't necessarily a good guy' angle by showing just how ruthless Grey Wardens can be. The messy end Ser Jory meets at the hands of Duncan underlines that in triple color mark, and the fact Wardens intentionally withhold information from potential recruits to make sure they aren't scared off doesn't help one bit.

Interestingly, the Church in DA isn't evil for once. They are fairly ruthless about keeping mages under control, but after seeing what happens when mages DO get possessed by demons in the Broken Circle quest, I really can't fault them for bneing paranoid. I don't particularly agree with their view of blood magic as being evil, though - it is power, and power is never good or evil - its wielders make it that way.

Time to complete? Depends on whether you refer to time to obtain a 100% file or time to finish the story. Both games can be easily rushed through, provided you know what you are doing, but DA has a LOT more flesh on the fire when it comes to sidequests, and between that and unlocking all character specializations AND seeing all differences between the various characters (and yes, there are some based on which Origin you went through), you'll spend far more time on DA than on FFVII.

Challenge? Even at its easiest, DA forces you to frequently pause to issue new strategies, lest you suffer a crushing defeat by trying to muscle your way through. It forces you to think, whereas most of FFVII can be beat by repeatedly mashing the Accept button in battle... so yeah.

Have I missed anything? Oh yeah, sound. Can't judge that one, being how I'm deaf and all... but everything else I think I covered.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#13
Rabe said:
Sorry but I'm going to have agree with Meinos Kaen here. I don't know when it started being cool to hate on the hero of the story but I never got on that boat.
When did I say that I hated Cloud? Actually, I like him - he's got depth, he's got serious issues, he grows as a character during the course of FF7. Until Square decided to ignore that development in order to make him an isolated, depressed and anti-social brooder for Advent and KH.

That I also happen to prefer Zack, doesn't mean I hate Cloud. It's possible to like both, for different reasons. <s>Oh, wait, Zack is the main character of CC, so I must hate him, rite?</s>
 

Rabe

Well-Known Member
#14
GenocideHeart said:
Rabe said:
In your o so humble opinion I'm sure

Really tho it sounds like you might need to calm down just a little bit, it can't be good for you to be this tightly wound all the time.
Name me one thing FFVII does better than Dragon Age.

Graphics? Nope, it shows its age, massively so.

Battle system? Dragon Age handles active battle a lot better than FFVII does, requiring you to actually coordinate your team's efforts instead of just selecting the strongest spell/attack you have available and letting loose. You actually feel challenge. Besides, ATB itself was done a lot better in FFX, and FFVII's ATB was essentially the same as in FFVI, down to even having Limit Breaks - although Limit Breaks in FFVI were a lot harder to trigger.

Character development? Uh. Hmhm. PffHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, couldn't resist. Anyway, no. DA spends a good half of its gametime carefully fleshing out the characters as events shape them and influence their view of the world, and even their attitude towards you - and the world itself - changes based on how you act, even causing some of them to outright dump you if your actions clash with their beliefs, or you could accomplish the opposite - changing their beliefs through example and persuasion. Compared to DA's, FFVII's character development is puny. In fact, FFVI did character development better anyway...

Plot? Both are cliched to hell at their core ("Let's save the world from the bad guy"). FFVII, however, goes the extra mile by adding an even more cliched Corrupt Corporation, whereas DA pulls a less cliched 'You aren't necessarily a good guy' angle by showing just how ruthless Grey Wardens can be. The messy end Ser Jory meets at the hands of Duncan underlines that in triple color mark, and the fact Wardens intentionally withhold information from potential recruits to make sure they aren't scared off doesn't help one bit.

Interestingly, the Church in DA isn't evil for once. They are fairly ruthless about keeping mages under control, but after seeing what happens when mages DO get possessed by demons in the Broken Circle quest, I really can't fault them for bneing paranoid. I don't particularly agree with their view of blood magic as being evil, though - it is power, and power is never good or evil - its wielders make it that way.

Time to complete? Depends on whether you refer to time to obtain a 100% file or time to finish the story. Both games can be easily rushed through, provided you know what you are doing, but DA has a LOT more flesh on the fire when it comes to sidequests, and between that and unlocking all character specializations AND seeing all differences between the various characters (and yes, there are some based on which Origin you went through), you'll spend far more time on DA than on FFVII.

Challenge? Even at its easiest, DA forces you to frequently pause to issue new strategies, lest you suffer a crushing defeat by trying to muscle your way through. It forces you to think, whereas most of FFVII can be beat by repeatedly mashing the Accept button in battle... so yeah.

Have I missed anything? Oh yeah, sound. Can't judge that one, being how I'm deaf and all... but everything else I think I covered.
Look Dragon age can't be the defining game of the 90's so please either accept that or build a time machine and see if copyrights can be enforced before they were originally filed. Either way I really don't like how passionate your being about this its like I pissed you off and frankly I'm not sure why? Are you just pissed that I'm not cheerleading with you. I mean I like the game hell I bought but its not nearly as memorable as FF7.

Don't get me wrong hell I bought the damned game and I've liked what I played of it so far. Unfortunately its lased with the standard grim dark crap that has been ruining everything else the last couple years, but the dialogue so far as been able to keep the cast likable for the most part. but it still never going to take FF7s place for me

so please calm down and go about your life.
 

Rabe

Well-Known Member
#15
trevelyan1983 said:
Rabe said:
Sorry but I'm going to have agree with Meinos Kaen here. I don't know when it started being cool to hate on the hero of the story but I never got on that boat.
When did I say that I hated Cloud? Actually, I like him - he's got depth, he's got serious issues, he grows as a character during the course of FF7. Until Square decided to ignore that development in order to make him an isolated, depressed and anti-social brooder for Advent and KH.

That I also happen to prefer Zack, doesn't mean I hate Cloud. It's possible to like both, for different reasons. <s>Oh, wait, Zack is the main character of CC, so I must hate him, rite?</s>
Okay this I can understand I personally never could stomach kingdom hearts long enough to play any of the games so to me those games don't exist. On the topic of Advent children Cloud was isolated because he was as far as he knew terminally ill and getting ready to die. Basically he didn't want his friends to worry needlessly, seeing as there was nothing they could do for him or so he thought. Well the living ones any way.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#16
That . . . makes a lot of sense, actually. And I could see Cloud retreating into that kind of mindset out of fear, or a misplaced self-sacrifice, or even not understanding his value to his friends.

But at the same time, Zack and Aeris showed him, if you're going to die, you don't go out like a bitch. Ever.
 

Rabe

Well-Known Member
#17
trevelyan1983 said:
That . . . makes a lot of sense, actually. And I could see Cloud retreating into that kind of mindset out of fear, or a misplaced self-sacrifice, or even not understanding his value to his friends.

But at the same time, Zack and Aeris showed him, if you're going to die, you don't go out like a bitch. Ever.
Which is exactly why I think they gave him a such a hard time about the whole thing I mean teasing a dying man. That was pure Zack Fair, nudging Cloud just enough to make remember hes still not dead yet.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#18
What set me off is not you failing to 'cheerlead' over Dragon Age, it's you calling FF7 'the defining game of the 90s'. Which it is NOT, no matter how much you twist and turn things. I mentioned several 90s games that, in their own way, had as much impact, if not more, than it.

Super Mario 64 and Street Fighter II, I'm especially looking at you. SFII in particular not only made fighting games mainstream, but essentially defined the whole genre from the ground up, on top of being one of the smoothest, most playable games ever regardless of genre, and as much as I like KoF more than it, I'm honest enough to admit that, beside the shameless milking of the cash cow Capcom performed, SFII was a milestone whose examples in all categories quickly became the standard to beat. Much like SM64 for 3D - in fact, I have yet to see a 3D game be as genuinely playable and fun as SM64, although a few came pretty damn close... and I'm a Nintendo hater, so I'm very reluctant to praise their games.
 

Rabe

Well-Known Member
#19
GenocideHeart said:
What set me off is not you failing to 'cheerlead' over Dragon Age, it's you calling FF7 'the defining game of the 90s'. Which it is NOT, no matter how much you twist and turn things. I mentioned several 90s games that, in their own way, had as much impact, if not more, than it.

Super Mario 64 and Street Fighter II, I'm especially looking at you. SFII in particular not only made fighting games mainstream, but essentially defined the whole genre from the ground up, on top of being one of the smoothest, most playable games ever regardless of genre, and as much as I like KoF more than it, I'm honest enough to admit that, beside the shameless milking of the cash cow Capcom performed, SFII was a milestone whose examples in all categories quickly became the standard to beat. Much like SM64 for 3D - in fact, I have yet to see a 3D game be as genuinely playable and fun as SM64, although a few came pretty damn close... and I'm a Nintendo hater, so I'm very reluctant to praise their games.
This might come as a shock but other people can hold opinions different then your own. No matter how well you think your position is made people can and do hold different ones.

For example when I think about games I played in the 90s FF7 and Xenogears are always on the top of that list. That is not going to change now matter how offended you sound, sorry but thats the way it is.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#20
It's kinda ironic how you say it's your opinion when your exact words were

the defining game of the 90's.
That doesn't look like opinion, does it? It looks like an absolute statement, does it? And like all poorly-conceived absolute statements that someone may not agree with, it'll draw criticism, if not ire.

It happened to me in the past, now it's happening to you. You chose an extremely poor wording and it's biting you in the ass, nothing more, nothing less.

EDIT: By the way, Street Fighter II having more impact and being a more defining game than FFVII is pretty much fact, not opinion. FFVII didn't redefine the entire genre, and indeed the standards of quality for animation, sound and playability for 2D gaming in general, from the ground up. Street Fighter II did, to a massive extent.
 

Meinos Kaen

Well-Known Member
#21
trevelyan1983 said:
That . . . makes a lot of sense, actually. And I could see Cloud retreating into that kind of mindset out of fear, or a misplaced self-sacrifice, or even not understanding his value to his friends.

But at the same time, Zack and Aeris showed him, if you're going to die, you don't go out like a bitch. Ever.
Yeah. The point is, Cloud, after regaining his memories, started to think of himself the worst humanly possible.

I couldn't save my mother, I couldn't save my hometown, I couldn't save my best friend, I couldn't save the woman I loved. As terribly illogical and human that is, these things have an higher value than a whole planet for a person. Add to that that he got ill, he felt even more useless and unworthy of even breathing his friends' same air.

Regarding SephirothVSCloud:

1) Yeah, that was pure luck, even if there, Cloud showed balls of steel. I mean, he got stabbed through the stomach and he raised Sephiroth with his own blade and threw him into the lifestream while still being stabbed through.

2) I'm not talking about the battle with Bizzaro and Safer Sephiroth, but after, when everyone gets out of the lifestream but Cloud gets sucked in to the center of the planet where him and Sephiroth do battle in singolar tenzone.

3) In AC... More than an asspull, it was a repeat of how he killed him the second time. Lots of stabbing around, Omnislash and there he goes down.


And regarding Cloud would be better if he was like Zack... No. Just... No. Nonono. We have come to like Cloud because he is like he is. Stop. Being like Zack, he would just be a clone with blonde hair. Just... No. His friends and Aeris loved him like he was, as in: nothing like Zack. So... Just no. Zack is Zack, Cloud is Cloud. Stop trying to turn the second into the first one just because you like it more.


@Genocidehearth: Well, people revere FFVII because if it wasn't for the game, RPGs would have probably stayed a niche genere, and they would have probably stayed in Japan. Before it came out, just two Final Fantasies had come out of Japan. Figures the other series... Earthbound had to be fanslated a decade later. It has even aged well, and it is the only Final Fantasy that has spawned a 'compilation', even if, I agree, there are other games that have helped define the 90s more than it, that's true.


Returning in topic... Well, the point is, fusing together Dragon Age and FFVII will take a lot of work. First thing, have you actually played Final Fantasy VII and Dragon Age origins? That's the first thing you should do before even thinking about writing the story. Play both games to 100%, because the premise you gave is similar to about 75% of the stories posted on FF.Net today, and they're not good at all.

If your idea for a crossover is 'OMGLET'SSENDALLTHESOLDIERSTODRAGONAGEAND
MAKETHEMKICKASS!', drop the keyboard. Don't even attempt it.

First thing that is a big punch in the eye: all of them reformed?

First nitpick about this: SEPHIROTH REFORMED?! O_O NOt even DEATH reformed him. Even from beyond the grave, his hate for the human race and Cloud in particular keeps him trying to mess things up. O_O

The other three? They're dead. That's a big 'how the hell'? Also, Aeris. She does have power over the lifestream of the planet, but on the lifestream of the whole universe? Well, that could be solved easily enough... From DoC we understand that there's indeed an 'universal lifestream', so, I guess that a call of distress for help from the planet of Dragon Age could be transmitted to the others.

There's the problem of the 'why' the DA planet would ask for help... I mean, he does have the grey wardens. Even if the whole Ferelden group got wiped out, there are the others in the other countries. Also, why a call of help for the Planet only?

Well... There's a way, actually... Something to make things even worse and to require help from someone who went through the same thing... Jenova. Or better, another Jenova. Landing in Ferelden right as the blight starts.

So, on top of having to deal with the Blight, there's a planet-destroying monstruosity.

You could make it like this. On one side, there's the Grey Warden and his group having to deal with the blight. On the other side, there's the help sent by the Planet to deal with Jenova-2, who is spreading her cells around already. Create another, different storyline, basically. Other challenges, other fights... But in a few points, make the two groups meet. Of course, the help sent should be Cloud. Case in point, he's the most powerful thing on the planet, and if Aeris asked him, he would agree.

I'd suggest giving him a completely original group of comrades, but I guess you could make him go with two of his old comrades. Your choice. Everyone would be confusing.

To bring in Sephiroth and the others... That's easy. Sephiroth tags along with Cloud for his trip and starts infecting the fade to help one of his 'relatives', who he believes to be a survived ancient, I guess. To stop him or at least halt his spread, Zack and Angeal get sent. According to the end of DoC, Genesis is still alive.

Wow... That's a lot of text.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#22
@Genocidehearth: Well, people revere FFVII because if it wasn't for the game, RPGs would have probably stayed a niche genere, and they would have probably stayed in Japan. Before it came out, just two Final Fantasies had come out of Japan. Figures the other series... Earthbound had to be fanslated a decade later. It has even aged well, and it is the only Final Fantasy that has spawned a 'compilation', even if, I agree, there are other games that have helped define the 90s more than it, that's true.
...four FFs came out of Japan before FF7. FF1, FF2 (both on NES), FFIV, FFVI. Make that five if you count FF Mystic Quest. Pretty much the only ones that missed the boat were FFIII (not a big loss, as it was craptacular, and even its remake is meh), and FFV.

Also, Earthbound had to be fan translated? WTF? That's Mother (whose fan name is Earthbound Zero, and which was for NES). Earthbound got a regular translation. And it sure as hell wasn't due to FFVII - EB came out in the US in 1995, a full three years before FFVII.

In fact, if you look at the NES and SNES, you'll realize that RPGs were brought over in fair numbers for supposed niche genres. They just didn't receive as much attention before FFVII's obnoxiously huge publicity campaign and massive hype caused people to buy it in spades in the west. And that was in large part due to the fact that most RPG companies were on a budget for Western releases. In Japan, RPGs were always big - Dragon Warrior actually consistently outsold Final Fantasy, and Megaten also had a huge following, though not as huge as the Big Two.

Again: FFVII helped make RPGs mainstream by throwing up a multimillion dollar ad campaign that pretty much made sure you COULD NOT miss it. That was its main advantage, and pretty much its claim to fame. People tend to forget, for instance, that Suikoden came out before it (1996 in NA, 1997 in Europe). And despite being 2D, it was overall a much more epic game, in both size and scope, as well as drama (who, having seen it, can forget Gremio's heroic sacrifice? Or Pahn's valiant stand against one of the mightiest generals of the Empire? Or Ted's own sacrifice to buy time for Tir to escape? But no, people act as if Aeris invented the whole thing. She didn't - hell, it goes all the way back to Phantasy Star II and Nei).
 

Rabe

Well-Known Member
#23
You know it might help you see where I'm coming from on the cast list if I show you what I've been reading lately.

it seems to be their first work and I've been surprised at just how well its turning out
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5059009/7/Minervas_Gift

I do hope a few of you read it.

GenocideHeart look I'm sorry I said anything to you please leave it be.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#24
Sigh. Whatever. It's fine if you say FFVII is your favorite game - after all, there's no accounting for taste, or lack thereof, and even I am guilty of enjoying Hoshigami, even though that game can be described as tedium incarnate until you grind enough.

Just don't go making grandiose proclamations. Especially about a FF. The amount of controversy that brings is just not worth it.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#25
Meinos Kaen said:
And regarding Cloud would be better if he was like Zack... No. Just... No. Nonono. We have come to like Cloud because he is like he is. Stop. Being like Zack, he would just be a clone with blonde hair. Just... No. His friends and Aeris loved him like he was, as in: nothing like Zack. So... Just no. Zack is Zack, Cloud is Cloud. Stop trying to turn the second into the first one just because you like it more.
I didn't say that he'd be better. I said he'd be more fun. Which is just the fact of the matter - Zack treats just about everything as if it's a joke. Cloud comes from a much darker place, and his business is much more serious.

Can you imagine if Cloud had lines like, say, Yuri Hyuga?

"Hey, Sephiroth, before you kill the planet with Meteor, will you do me one favour?"

"What do you seek, puppet?"

"I wish you'd shove it. You know where."

That'd be fucking awesome. Zack could just about pull it off, too.

Cloud couldn't, and wouldn't. But then, he has very good reasons not to. And if you'd paid some attention to what I was saying, rather than leaping to Cloud's defense because you think I'm being mean to him, you might have realized that.
 
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