DragonAge:Origins+the reformed SOLDIER 1sts of FF7

[Meinos Kaen]

And regarding Cloud would be better if he was like Zack... No. Just... No. Nonono. We have come to like Cloud because he is like he is. Stop. Being like Zack, he would just be a clone with blonde hair. Just... No. His friends and Aeris loved him like he was, as in: nothing like Zack. So... Just no. Zack is Zack, Cloud is Cloud. Stop trying to turn the second into the first one just because you like it more.

I didn't say that he'd be better. I said he'd be more fun. Which is just the fact of the matter - Zack treats just about everything as if it's a joke. Cloud comes from a much darker place, and his business is much more serious.

Can you imagine if Cloud had lines like, say, Yuri Hyuga?

"Hey, Sephiroth, before you kill the planet with Meteor, will you do me one favour?"

"What do you seek, puppet?"

"I wish you'd shove it. You know where."

That'd be fucking awesome. Zack could just about pull it off, too.

Cloud couldn't, and wouldn't. But then, he has very good reasons not to. And if you'd paid some attention to what I was saying, rather than leaping to Cloud's defense because you think I'm being mean to him, you might have realized that.

Hmm... Right. I read better instead of fun. Guilty on that. It's just, I've been ticked off with the 'If you got Zack, you don't need Cloud' thing.

It's just that, Cloud wasn't made to be fun. He was made for, like you said, 'serious business'. To tell the truth, I think that, if Zack was still alive, he and Cloud would be at odds many times for Zack's attitude to things. BUt I guess now we should stop off-topiching.

 

[toraneko]

Well, here's the thing: remember that, until Tifa helped Cloud put his gears in order, he was basically running under a personality that copied everything about Zack that he could. So, it's really not a concept that is without precedent.

*toraneko?is still irked that SE chose to disregard Cloud's post-mindfix courage and character in Advent Children et al.

 

[Meinos Kaen]

Well, here's the thing: remember that, until Tifa helped Cloud put his gears in order, he was basically running under a personality that copied everything about Zack that he could. So, it's really not a concept that is without precedent.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand... That's bullshit. Ehm, sorry for the strong word, but it's not for you, it's for SE. I mean, that statement makes no sense at all.

I mean, just compare the two. Zack is basically Zell fused with Zidane. Happy go lucky, casanova, laughing.

Cloud at the start of FF7 is a bastard. He cares about nothing but himself and money. He's not funny, he's sarcastic, and cold. The only thing he takes from Zack is his fighting style on which he improves, making it eventually not Zack's style anymore.

I mean, seriously: Where the hell is Cloud acting like Zack anywhere in the whole series? Name me one time.

 

[Rabe]

Well, here's the thing: remember that, until Tifa helped Cloud put his gears in order, he was basically running under a personality that copied everything about Zack that he could. So, it's really not a concept that is without precedent.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand... That's bullshit. Ehm, sorry for the strong word, but it's not for you, it's for SE. I mean, that statement makes no sense at all.

I mean, just compare the two. Zack is basically Zell fused with Zidane. Happy go lucky, casanova, laughing.

Cloud at the start of FF7 is a bastard. He cares about nothing but himself and money. He's not funny, he's sarcastic, and cold. The only thing he takes from Zack is his fighting style on which he improves, making it eventually not Zack's style anymore.

I mean, seriously: Where the hell is Cloud acting like Zack anywhere in the whole series? Name me one time.

Well copy is the wrong word.

What it does look like cloud did was make a new angrier more assertive persona for himself during the years he was held in Hojo's lab. He primarily did this to facilitate lashing out at his abusers, but when he had to helplessly watched Zack die his mind broke a little bit and overwrote Zack's active role in his memories of their last mission with this new persona of his until he could deal with the guilt of watching Zack die for him.

sound about right?

 

[toraneko]

That's more like what I meant.

Still, it felt like Aeris meant more than the SOLDIER uniform and Buster Sword when she said that Cloud "seemed familiar".

 

[Rabe]

That's more like what I meant.

Still, it felt like Aeris meant more than the SOLDIER uniform and Buster Sword when she said that Cloud "seemed familiar".

I think you expect friends to start borrowing each other quirks after a fews years together right? Besides it could just be that she was talking about how she met Zack and Cloud the same way, meaning they both fell from the sky into her flower bed.

 

[GenocideHeart]

The problem is that before CC was made, Zack's personality was a question mark. The game just told us that Cloud was living a lie, since he had Zack's mannerism and memories. Square-Enix chose to disregard ITS OWN STATEMENTS in FFVII, and made Zack a polar opposite to Cloud - even though for most ogf the game Cloud was stated to have been imprinting on Zack!

Fail, Square. Fail hard. Try being consistent to your own estabilished shit instead of retconning left and right. That's what IGA did to Castlevania, and fans are STILL pissed at him over it.

 

[Meinos Kaen]

That's more like what I meant.

Still, it felt like Aeris meant more than the SOLDIER uniform and Buster Sword when she said that Cloud "seemed familiar".

Maybe Zack talked to her about him, don't know. Clothes and sword apart, they don't act alike at all. But yeah, that's exactly what it means. Cloud's mind basically overwrote Zack's role with his own, guided by his guilt and his shame for not being able to become what Zack was: Soldier.

 

[toraneko]

The problem is that before CC was made, Zack's personality was a question mark. The game just told us that Cloud was living a lie, since he had Zack's mannerism and memories. Square-Enix chose to disregard ITS OWN STATEMENTS in FFVII, and made Zack a polar opposite to Cloud - even though for most ogf the game Cloud was stated to have been imprinting on Zack!

I do believe I agree.

And it wouldn't be the first time I was angry at Squenix for screwing around with the game continuity and - especially - characterization of FF7 characters.