Ranma ½ Frustration

[goldenarms]

Well, "pissing them off to no end" is kind of light; I mean, "turn into towering infernos of boiling rage."

I can see that, though that scenario never occured to me. Closest in real life I can think of was angering a RDDF (my own term for someone whom is a Rabid David Ducovney Fan) by merely mentioning he looks like John Ritter. She gave me dirty looks for weeks, and that was after being nice and chewing my head off and explaining how no way were they even remotely the same.

So, that was at a mere idle comment made in a break room... doing something like you describe to the character, would likely have her gathering her friends and hunting me down with pitchforks.

Exactly. Exactly that.

And GH, I should note, you should be stacking the deck in your favor. When I said get people interested in your stuff, I probably should have mentioned to aim for those that are into the general things you like or have relation to your work. You would have better luck getting a martial artist to read your kung-fu parody than you would getting a romance writer to do the same.

 

[Lord Raa]

And a bit surprising. Women are just as hypocritical as men, if not moreso, believe that.

In other news, water is still wet, ice is still cold and walking up to hungry polar bears and fondling their testicles is still a bad idea.

 

[GenocideHeart]

And a bit surprising. Women are just as hypocritical as men, if not moreso, believe that.

In other news, water is still wet, ice is still cold and walking up to hungry polar bears and fondling their testicles is still a bad idea.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm pretty sure walking up to hungry polar bears, period, is a bad idea, never mind the testicles fondling.

 

[goldenarms]

And a bit surprising. Women are just as hypocritical as men, if not moreso, believe that.

In other news, water is still wet, ice is still cold and walking up to hungry polar bears and fondling their testicles is still a bad idea.

Well, I just had to throw some guys a bone. You know, the same guys that believe the stripper when she says she's just started dancing a few days ago and is only working for her tuition.

And yes, testicle fondling is bad. Just ask Armless Joe.

 

[Luthorne]

Ironic, you're using a niche pairing to justify yourself here. And to be frank, most authors probably aren't writing for that audience in the first place.

...Ichigo/Grimmjaw is one of the top 3 pairings in Bleach's FF.net section, as well as over on Ficwad. Not niche at all.

...that's sad.

Truly, that's sad.

I was just assuming, since I've only read one Bleach fic, and that was only recent. Still, most authors aren't likely writing for that kind of audience, just girls who, for all intents and purposes are just doing to piss off guys.

Still, most authors aren't likely writing for that kind of audience, just girls who, for all intents and purposes are just doing to piss off guys.

Wow. The baffling egocentrism required to believe that an entire category of fanfiction is being generated for the sole purpose of trolling male fanfiction readers astounds me. Bravo, sirrah, you have expanded my worldview. :sisi:

I seek to enlighten. :sisi:

On a serious note, yaoi girls are basically smacking it in the face of people that don't like it. They think it's funny that such people are "homophobic" and so easily irked about it. One thing that I discovered, though is taking their yaoiness and basically inverting it so that one of the prefered pairs is a girl pisses them off to no end.

Well, "pissing them off to no end" is kind of light; I mean, "turn into towering infernos of boiling rage."

They like to envision one of them as a girl, but tampering with it so that one of them is caused at least two of the yaoi fans I sought to understand the appeal of said subject from to froth at the mouth in a frenzied rampage to destroy the notion. I didn't hang around on that board long enough to see the complete fallout, but it was enlightening.

And a bit surprising. Women are just as hypocritical as men, if not moreso, believe that.

Not all of them, I've seen at least some examples of yaoi fanfiction writers who don't mind genderbending one side or the other. I recall a Naruto fanfiction author awhile back who pretty much exclusively wrote yaoi harem with Naruto, favoring Sasuke, Neji, and Gaara as I recall, and then wrote one where a large percentage of Konoha (and Gaara who happened to be there at the time) got turned into women via some ridiculous Deus Ex Machina, and wound up evolving into a harem fic, all the guys-turned-girls after Naruto and whatnot.

Obviously, I can't stat up some sort of percentage as to how many yaoi fangirls are fine with genderbending and how many aren't, much like I can't stat up one as to how many think mpreg is hot shit and those who think it's stupid, but, either way.

Also, while they may enjoy the outrage of homophobic fanboys, I'm pretty sure a fair percentage of yaoi fangirls actually think that their pairing is either plausible, or so hot it doesn't matter, much like a large percentage of people who write other pairings tend to ignore canonical aspects of people's personalities when putting together the pairings that would ordinarily make it unlikely that they'd wind up together...and I've seen more than a few fanfiction authors who justify their preferred pairing on the general premise that [CHARACTER A] is really hot, ergo, [PROTAGONIST] MUST have her! Both in single-canon (as much as I hesitate to use the word 'canon' in these situations) works as well as crossovers.

Edit: And why the hell wouldn't women be just as hypocritical as men? Just because we're different sexes doesn't mean we're both not still human, and men and women can both learn hypocrisy from each other quite well. It's not like there's a hypocrisy hormone unique to the male body, after all...

 

[goldenarms]

Also, while they may enjoy the outrage of quote unquote homophobic fanboys,

Fixed for your convenience.

I'm pretty sure a fair percentage of yaoi fangirls actually think that their pairing is either plausible, or so hot it doesn't matter, much like a large percentage of people who write other pairings tend to ignore canonical aspects of people's personalities when putting together the pairings that would ordinarily make it unlikely that they'd wind up together...and I've seen more than a few fanfiction authors who justify their preferred pairing on the general premise that [CHARACTER A] is really hot, ergo, [PROTAGONIST] MUST have her! Both in single-canon (as much as I hesitate to use the word 'canon' in these situations) works as well as crossovers.

I'd bank heavily on the latter, which doesn't make it much different to straight pairings. However, when I think the word "plausible," in relation to fandom, it usually means that the character actually has such a thing in his demonstrated character. Ranma has gone after guys before, either out of egotism, trickery, or "of his own volition" like the Love Rod incident. While it doesn't mean he likes guys, per se, he could theoretically use one within a limited capacity if the reason for it is great enough. Hell, he almost kissed Kuno, I think.

Naruto, on the other hand, has repeatedly stated his interest in the female in both word and deed quite loudly and clearly since the beginning of the series. There's nothing other than pure pulled-out-of-my-ass fanwank involved when saying it's plausible, unless you're planning to have your main squeezie rape him (which, I've been told is a common plot device in I guess professional yaoi books, though it's dressed up as "surprise sex you didn't know you wanted"). Outside of ho yay moments (and using ho yay as your reason is akin to saying you're deathly ill just because you sneezed once two hours ago), there's nothing that supports the notion. Not even for Sasuke, which, as much as the fans hate on him -- Sasugay, SasUKE -- he's fairly asexual. Or at least his sex life takes the trunk in his quest to kill everyone responsible for the Uchiha Massacre.

 

[ToastedPine]

Naruto, on the other hand, has repeatedly stated his interest in the female in both word and deed quite loudly and clearly since the beginning of the series. There's nothing other than pure pulled-out-of-my-ass fanwank involved when saying it's plausible, unless you're planning to have your main squeezie rape him (which, I've been told is a common plot device in I guess professional yaoi books, though it's dressed up as "surprise sex you didn't know you wanted"). Outside of ho yay moments (and using ho yay as your reason is akin to saying you're deathly ill just because you sneezed once two hours ago), there's nothing that supports the notion. Not even for Sasuke, which, as much as the fans hate on him -- Sasugay, SasUKE -- he's fairly asexual. Or at least his sex life takes the trunk in his quest to kill everyone responsible for the Uchiha Massacre.

If you're going to count trickery, then Naruto has the Oiroke no Jutsu which he's used repeatedly to get under people's skin. Naruto has also kissed Sasuke in canon (though it was an accident, I don't see the difference if something like koi rod counts).

I've been reading fanfiction for years without much contact with shounen-ai or slash fics, if any. The one exception is Fetter, who I avoided easily enough once I committed his name to memory. Most shounen-ai stories on ff.net have warnings and or relationship tags as well so you can see those from a mile away.

Smart choices and clean living is what it all comes down to. If they were really out to get fanboys, then I suspect that they would have irrevocably stained me a long time ago. Also, what's wrong with wanting to be read? Writing takes quite a bit of time and some degree of personal investment, of course there are going to be this pairing genre out on public fanfiction boards. If you run into a fic that doesn't properly label itself, then point out that they should do so and that you don't appreciate being lured into reading the story in the most civil way possible.

Anger isn't a constructive mode of action. If I were a shounen-ai/slashfic writer, and I get flames from of a whole bunch of angry jerks, then of course I'd feel like prodding them some more because they're being so nasty about it. Maybe I'm a new writer and I wasn't aware of all the labeling and posting rules. One tiny misunderstanding leads to a disproportionate reaction, which will lead to a cycle of hate. So sure, when next you find a "Suprise Yaoi" story, you could get mad and flame the heck out of someone, and it'll feel good-- you might even feel very big about it-- but what's really happened is that you've beat off with a razor, and the blood's inevitably gonna pour out.

 

[GenocideHeart]

On the other hand, Naruto TURNS INTO A GIRL, which does raise some questions as to which way he swings, since he uses a henge when a simple illusion would do.

Oh, and even after discovering haku was a guy, he still thought he was cute.

So yeah, there's partial cases for making him swing that way. Not GOOD ones, mind you, but they are there.

 

[Croaker]

Oh, and even after discovering haku was a guy, he still thought he was cute.

Did someone say Bridget?

...

No. No one said Bridget. :unsure!:

 

[Luthorne]

No, a lot of fanboys pretty much are straight out homophobic, or at least find it exceptionally distasteful, regardless of the characters involved or how likely or unlikely it might be, and the fact of the matter is, most of the rage and bile they get will be from people making knee jerk reactions prompted by their general hatred of yaoi, rather than an actual awareness that this is out-of-character, suffers from poor buildup, and ignores pre-established canon...but then again, the latter three are rampant amongst fanfiction in general, not just yaoi fanfiction.

And as for being demonstrated in their character, frankly, in the vast majority of cases, most of the characters involved have not explicitly stated that they uniformly do not find men to be sexually attractive. They may have, at some point, demonstrated that they do find women to be attractive, and even that they find specific men who pursue them to be repulsive in rare cases. Now, you might assume that you can safely presume that a given character is neither homosexual or bisexual unless there have been given very specific indicators that they are, but the fact is that other people presume that they can portray someone as being bisexual or homosexual unless there have been given very specific indicators that they are not.

This is even more enhanced when you deal with younger characters, who may, hypothetically, not entirely have come to grips with their sexuality, puberty being an awkward time for many, particularly given the generally traumatic past of your typical anime protagonist, as well as many of the other characters within. To someone inclined to want to see such things, the suggestion that said character may be 'confused' is a popular thought, or that they don't really understand the difference between sexual and nonsexual love, confusing a desire for close friendship with sexual attraction. You can certainly scoff and call bullshit, but to them, it seems a not unreasonable premise, admittedly one greatly influenced by their own personal preferences when it comes to romance.

What it all boils down to is this: Most yaoi fanfiction authors are not writing fanfiction solely to annoy people. Some may be doing so, but for the most part, like many fanfiction authors out there, they are simply creating fanfiction to indulge their personal tastes, as well as for the tastes of their audience. Many of them view their favored pairings as being realistic, regardless of whether or not this is actually the case, and the reasoning behind this realism are not often particularly thought out. It may, in the long run, simply boil down to them liking the way the two look together, or interact together, or interact in someone else's portrayal of those two (or three, or four, or more) characters.

Do I like it? No. Do I think Ranma is going to realistically be attracted to any guy? No. Do I think that Naruto is going to be attracted to any (non-Haku) guy? No. Do I want to read stories where either happen? No. But, at least in my opinion, they're just writing what they and their target audience wants to read...much like the vast majority of most fanfiction everywhere, in all its character-raping, canon-destroying, buildup deficit. and thoroughly sucky glory. :mellow:

 

[yasuhei]

I'm not a big fan of yaoi at all, but people in this forum constantly act like there's no closeness between Naruto and Sasuke. I don't really think they are gay, but pre-timeskip there's no one in Naruto's life who he's closer to than Sasuke and vise-versa.

It's not the enormous stretch that people keep making out to equate their antagonistic friendship to the way that younger teen guys often display interest by insulting or picking on their interests. They are a better match for a yaoi story than many Male pairings that get written about.

My biggest problem with yoai Naruto fiction is that none of it is well written. Authors tend to assume there is already this homosexual thing between them, instead of actually going to the trouble of developing it themselves. I hate how so few yaoi Naruto fics seem to have well developed characters, but to be fair this is true of fics in general, it's just easier for us to ignore poor writing when we already inherently like the subject matter.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Did someone say Bridget?

...

No. No one said Bridget. :unsure!:

That just makes a better case, because as you know, everyone goes gay for Bridget. You are just empowering the fangirls there.

 

[Dumbledork]

I'm not a big fan of yaoi at all, but people in this forum constantly act like there's no closeness between Naruto and Sasuke. I don't really think they are gay, but pre-timeskip there's no one in Naruto's life who he's closer to than Sasuke and vise-versa.

It's not the enormous stretch that people keep making out to equate their antagonistic friendship to the way that younger teen guys often display interest by insulting or picking on their interests. They are a better match for a yaoi story than many Male pairings that get written about.

My biggest problem with yoai Naruto fiction is that none of it is well written. Authors tend to assume there is already this homosexual thing between them, instead of actually going to the trouble of developing it themselves. I hate how so few yaoi Naruto fics seem to have well developed characters, but to be fair this is true of fics in general, it's just easier for us to ignore poor writing when we already inherently like the subject matter.

I've been thinking the same thing for a long time. If there's one plausible yaoi pairing it's Naruto/Sasuke. And Naruto even promises to get the asshole back and tries everything to do just that instead of... I don't know, doing the logical thing and kill the traitor.

And Sasuke must have some feelings for Naruto too or he would have finished him at the Valley of the End.

 

[Hawk]

I will always have the strongest reaction to yaoi when it is in the Ranma fandom. It is something I feel I've said before, but it is at the level of programmed muscle memory.

Ranma 1/2 was the first long manga I've ever read, I think it may have been the first manga I ever read. That has an impact. I was young, and associated for whatever reason incredibly strongly with Ranma. It is why any fanfic idea I have comes back to him. Thus I will always have strong reactions to when people try to emasculate him. I cannot really explain well.

It is reasonable to say however that I don't care half as much about yaoi involving Naruto/Sasuke. I just don't associate with Naruto, his character doesn't latch on to a heart string for me. I don't read yaoi in general, however while I will back out of a Ranma story immediately in almost all cases, in Naruto if the story in general is good I'll keep reading. The almost all cases is mostly in reference to stories where it may be unclear, like Leaf.

 

[goldenarms]

No, a lot of fanboys pretty much are straight out homophobic, or at least find it exceptionally distasteful, regardless of the characters involved or how likely or unlikely it might be, and the fact of the matter is, most of the rage and bile they get will be from people making knee jerk reactions prompted by their general hatred of yaoi, rather than an actual awareness that this is out-of-character, suffers from poor buildup, and ignores pre-established canon...but then again, the latter three are rampant amongst fanfiction in general, not just yaoi fanfiction.

And as for being demonstrated in their character, frankly, in the vast majority of cases, most of the characters involved have not explicitly stated that they uniformly do not find men to be sexually attractive. They may have, at some point, demonstrated that they do find women to be attractive, and even that they find specific men who pursue them to be repulsive in rare cases. Now, you might assume that you can safely presume that a given character is neither homosexual or bisexual unless there have been given very specific indicators that they are, but the fact is that other people presume that they can portray someone as being bisexual or homosexual unless there have been given very specific indicators that they are not.

This is even more enhanced when you deal with younger characters, who may, hypothetically, not entirely have come to grips with their sexuality, puberty being an awkward time for many, particularly given the generally traumatic past of your typical anime protagonist, as well as many of the other characters within. To someone inclined to want to see such things, the suggestion that said character may be 'confused' is a popular thought, or that they don't really understand the difference between sexual and nonsexual love, confusing a desire for close friendship with sexual attraction. You can certainly scoff and call bullshit, but to them, it seems a not unreasonable premise, admittedly one greatly influenced by their own personal preferences when it comes to romance.

What it all boils down to is this: Most yaoi fanfiction authors are not writing fanfiction solely to annoy people. Some may be doing so, but for the most part, like many fanfiction authors out there, they are simply creating fanfiction to indulge their personal tastes, as well as for the tastes of their audience. Many of them view their favored pairings as being realistic, regardless of whether or not this is actually the case, and the reasoning behind this realism are not often particularly thought out. It may, in the long run, simply boil down to them liking the way the two look together, or interact together, or interact in someone else's portrayal of those two (or three, or four, or more) characters.

Do I like it? No. Do I think Ranma is going to realistically be attracted to any guy? No. Do I think that Naruto is going to be attracted to any (non-Haku) guy? No. Do I want to read stories where either happen? No. But, at least in my opinion, they're just writing what they and their target audience wants to read...much like the vast majority of most fanfiction everywhere, in all its character-raping, canon-destroying, buildup deficit. and thoroughly sucky glory. :mellow:

I'll accept that for the most part. It is obnoxious, and yes, we really wish you didn't share that piece of crap with us. Coming from a guy that spent a lot of time with Ranma fanfics back in the days of TASS Awards and whatnot, it's obscene the things they do with the characters, ripping them so far from IC it's a 50/50 shot if they even look the same. Yaoi is just the icing on the cake for me. Primarily because time and time again, I find the most lamest, agonizing, horribly-raped plots and summaries in FFN, it's enough to make me want to go gay just to see if it'll stop the agony. I mean, OMG, I couldn't dream the horrible shit they're passing off as stories.

I almost wish anime and manga stayed a niche thing. $16.95 for a manga volume seems like such a small price to pay now... fanfic writers back then tended to be older and a bit more competent about writing.

I'm not a big fan of yaoi at all, but people in this forum constantly act like there's no closeness between Naruto and Sasuke.? I don't really think they are gay, but pre-timeskip there's no one in Naruto's life who he's closer to than Sasuke and vise-versa.?

It's not the enormous stretch that people keep making out to equate their antagonistic friendship to the way that younger teen guys often display interest by insulting or picking on their interests.? They are a better match for a yaoi story than many Male pairings that get written about.

My biggest problem with yoai Naruto fiction is that none of it is well written.? Authors tend to assume there is already this homosexual thing between them, instead of actually going to the trouble of developing it themselves.? I hate how so few yaoi Naruto fics seem to have well developed characters, but to be fair this is true of fics in general, it's just easier for us to ignore poor writing when we already inherently like the subject matter.

1) I understand perfectly the friendship aspect between Naruto and Sasuke, It's my number reason why I get so irked by NaruSasu-SasuNaru fics. They're best friends, or at least that's how Naruto still sees Sasuke. Thus, he's going to do everything in his power to save him. You'd go out of your way to save you best friend from something stupid and dangerous, right? (if not, get the fuck away, you heartless bastard!) It doesn't mean he's only doing it because he loves him desperately and wants to suck the cum out of his balls. I get so offended with that sort of thing, it's a mockery of the entire story.

Probably because I'm one of the few people that actually likes the story as is.

2) It's a horrible travesty we let everyone and their momma near a keyboard. If the OOCness of the characters isn't bad enough, the quality makes my fecal matter puke. I've said before I'll read even a yaoi story if it's well-written, but problem is, no one can step to the plate. I've yet to hear of one that is not only well-written -- meaning, the idea is sound and simplified, you actually took the time to look up your subject, developed the story at aa steady pace, involved lots of suspense and tension, spellchecked it with machine and by hand (this is important stuff; take notes), have event open up and end naturally, reasonably, plausibly and believably (no asspulls or deus ex machina), had a story arc (the opening, the situation, building suspense, apex, falling down, moment of truth, and resolution), and is engaging -- but also makes sense. Basically, you'd have to be able to believe it can in fact grow into this form. Being based in canon helps, as quite frankly, it's not going to work if you're placing them in anything other than their established universe. High school, corporate life, even accidental strangers from around the way have their own rules, and they don;t match the Narutoverse. Far as I'm concerned, they're just cosplayers.

I've been thinking the same thing for a long time. If there's one plausible yaoi pairing it's Naruto/Sasuke. And Naruto even promises to get the asshole back and tries everything to do just that instead of... I don't know, doing the logical thing and kill the traitor.

And Sasuke must have some feelings for Naruto too or he would have finished him at the Valley of the End.

What, wouldn't you go out on a limb for your best friend?

To be fair, we're talking about someone who never had friends -- let alone be told he was someone's best friend -- until he was twelve, and admittedly sought to be praised and approved of. Sasuke approved of him, but more importantly, SAKURA approved of him when she asked him to bring Sasuke back.

Yeah, Naruto's a masochist. It doesn't change the fact that he's loathed to just say, "You know what, you're a fuckhead," and off Sasuke. Not unless he killed Sakura, which in that case, all bets are off.

As for Sasuke, he cared. Cared enough to call him his best friend. This is why we're in the muck we're in today in the Narutoverse.