Nasuverse FSN + SAO: j-jam it in!
- Thread starter daniel_gudman
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To be fair all we know of einzbern alchemy is the wire birds Illya's mom used, thier amazing homoculi, and their contribution to the grail war- the core concept of get alot of mana and use it to force a wish through to the root (I know the servants were a vital part but still...)
That and every attempt the family made to win the war ended up being something along the lines of, throw more mana/money/resources at it- teh smartest thing they did was hire kiritsugu to do the actual thinking and planning for them- if their previous attempts hadn't already screwed things over.
Overall the Einzbern magecraft is focused on alchemy and we have seen that Illya has some knowledge of that (Shirou learned all he knows of it from her) but it is an art lacking in direct combat (I think someone outright stated it in fate zero) Illya is using her brute force, large prana supply, and her own creativity for the most part, and she is getting along fine, we see her come up with something new only slightly less often then the rest, remember all the stuff her party does durring boss fights? I do hope to see her with some new tricks as time goes on, but really even if everyone else is learng and developing rapidly she still has a head start in experience, a ruthless mindset, and Kayaba's partnership. Maybe she won't be the heaviest hitter forever, maybe she won't have the variety of combat options of the rest of her guild- her title wasn't jsut because of Kayaba favoring her, it was for the expertise she showed outside of combat- things like when she gave Hexi the eyes of binding. In fact her greatest strength going forward could likely be more of a support role and that would be fine, after all that is what she did in cannon with berzerker, but I doubt she will ever let herself be sidelined, and I doubt she would see learning from Grimlock as a way to do that, instead of doing it herself or having Shirou do it.
Actually to expand on that support Idea- what if Ilya starts treating the pokemon Idea more litterally- taking her guiildmates and ordering them about like a trainer while she supports from the rear- either with bombardment spells- or supplying prana like she did to the spell kirito used on the mud golem? Anyone else have any ideas of what she could do in that vein/
That and every attempt the family made to win the war ended up being something along the lines of, throw more mana/money/resources at it- teh smartest thing they did was hire kiritsugu to do the actual thinking and planning for them- if their previous attempts hadn't already screwed things over.
Overall the Einzbern magecraft is focused on alchemy and we have seen that Illya has some knowledge of that (Shirou learned all he knows of it from her) but it is an art lacking in direct combat (I think someone outright stated it in fate zero) Illya is using her brute force, large prana supply, and her own creativity for the most part, and she is getting along fine, we see her come up with something new only slightly less often then the rest, remember all the stuff her party does durring boss fights? I do hope to see her with some new tricks as time goes on, but really even if everyone else is learng and developing rapidly she still has a head start in experience, a ruthless mindset, and Kayaba's partnership. Maybe she won't be the heaviest hitter forever, maybe she won't have the variety of combat options of the rest of her guild- her title wasn't jsut because of Kayaba favoring her, it was for the expertise she showed outside of combat- things like when she gave Hexi the eyes of binding. In fact her greatest strength going forward could likely be more of a support role and that would be fine, after all that is what she did in cannon with berzerker, but I doubt she will ever let herself be sidelined, and I doubt she would see learning from Grimlock as a way to do that, instead of doing it herself or having Shirou do it.
Actually to expand on that support Idea- what if Ilya starts treating the pokemon Idea more litterally- taking her guiildmates and ordering them about like a trainer while she supports from the rear- either with bombardment spells- or supplying prana like she did to the spell kirito used on the mud golem? Anyone else have any ideas of what she could do in that vein/
Can she create a contract similar to the servant contract? and use it to provide Shirou with prana, because that would solve the 1 reason shirou is considered an "underdog" in the nasuverse, small pranasupply.
Also she could use the Alchemy to create homonculi, or maybe something less humanoid, have shirou make some NP's to study and have her replicate their abilities in alchemically created familiars to create her own familiars? (have shirou project Carnwennan, study how it does invisibility, create invisible monsters to gank enemies from behind while the BoSM keep them distracted. this is just an example of course, id personally try to replicate Fail-not to create a "fake stymphalian bird")
Also she could use the Alchemy to create homonculi, or maybe something less humanoid, have shirou make some NP's to study and have her replicate their abilities in alchemically created familiars to create her own familiars? (have shirou project Carnwennan, study how it does invisibility, create invisible monsters to gank enemies from behind while the BoSM keep them distracted. this is just an example of course, id personally try to replicate Fail-not to create a "fake stymphalian bird")
So I was re-reading the fic and had a thought going back to the recreational drug discussion. Alcoholic beverages automatically switch to non-alcoholic versions if a person's age is too young so a straight [Recreational Drug] would likely fall under similar guidelines. So to sell to the younger players, who are also less likely to have restraint and thus are better customers, it can't be classed as a [Drug]. Instead it needs to be a [Poison]. That just makes Johnny or another poison master in LK being the originator more likely.
You know, it occurs to me....
Kayaba, strictly speaking, currently has access to the UBW, through the interface provided by Cardinal. At the very least he has occasional "glimpses" when Shirou interfaces to trace an in-game weapon or to access his stored blueprints for reference; with the degree of control he's displayed over the souls of the players I wouldn't be surprised if he just plain has full access.
Now, I'm sure trying to play with that access too much would get the Wrath of Ilya on his head (even aside from anything Shirou's own militarized soul might try to defend itself), but he doesn't need to - with access to those Noble Phantasms he now really does have access to more mystical knowledge in one place than almost anyone else on the planet. Certainly, it's exabytes upon exabytes of information that he can feed to Cardinal to refine his model of magecraft and have Aincrad approach a true Reality Marble in fidelity. Assuming he can get at it without lagging Shirou noticeably, anyway...
Kayaba, strictly speaking, currently has access to the UBW, through the interface provided by Cardinal. At the very least he has occasional "glimpses" when Shirou interfaces to trace an in-game weapon or to access his stored blueprints for reference; with the degree of control he's displayed over the souls of the players I wouldn't be surprised if he just plain has full access.
Now, I'm sure trying to play with that access too much would get the Wrath of Ilya on his head (even aside from anything Shirou's own militarized soul might try to defend itself), but he doesn't need to - with access to those Noble Phantasms he now really does have access to more mystical knowledge in one place than almost anyone else on the planet. Certainly, it's exabytes upon exabytes of information that he can feed to Cardinal to refine his model of magecraft and have Aincrad approach a true Reality Marble in fidelity. Assuming he can get at it without lagging Shirou noticeably, anyway...
It's an external database with a hardline connection to the software of Cardinal, though. And while strictly speaking I doubt it'd permit unauthorized access, I doubt that souls generally "permit" alterations of the kind Kayaba's already shown anyway. Tricking one's way into database permissions should be much easier than removing a trait or interfering with Magic Circuit activation.
Basically I'm saying that any programmer of Kayaba's caliber is also a pretty damn good hacker even without the constant PvP nature of the moonlit world.
Basically I'm saying that any programmer of Kayaba's caliber is also a pretty damn good hacker even without the constant PvP nature of the moonlit world.
you are forgetting one important thing, Caster Gilles-de rais (might seem like a sidetrack but stay with me) has a skill called mental polution, which to my understanding makes him imune to mind altering magics unless coming from someone similarly insane as him,
last i checked a reality marble had 2 prerequisites: 1 a mind alien to Gaia (otherwise you'd get a Marble Phantasm instead), and 2: a mind alien to Humanity. i believe its safe to say that anyone with a reality marble HAS to have Mental Polution at a level near A if not A+ at a bare minimum. meaning Kayaba isnt going to be able to "hack" his way into shirou,
your idea of "Hacking" Ubw is the equivalent of saying "I can read English, THUS i can read hieroglyphics" one system is just completely different having merely a passing resemblance to eachother if any.
last i checked a reality marble had 2 prerequisites: 1 a mind alien to Gaia (otherwise you'd get a Marble Phantasm instead), and 2: a mind alien to Humanity. i believe its safe to say that anyone with a reality marble HAS to have Mental Polution at a level near A if not A+ at a bare minimum. meaning Kayaba isnt going to be able to "hack" his way into shirou,
your idea of "Hacking" Ubw is the equivalent of saying "I can read English, THUS i can read hieroglyphics" one system is just completely different having merely a passing resemblance to eachother if any.
Direct invasion of the Soul at that level isn't something either Kayaba or Cardinal can do. Yet, if ever.
I mean, Kayaba is still playing around, training his basic-to-intermediate skills as a Spiritual Surgeon by adding and removing Sorcery Traits from players and such. That's small potato compared to invading a Reality Marble, even if you disregard the fact that trying to connect UBW to SAO run the very real risk of crashing the later.
I mean, Kayaba is still playing around, training his basic-to-intermediate skills as a Spiritual Surgeon by adding and removing Sorcery Traits from players and such. That's small potato compared to invading a Reality Marble, even if you disregard the fact that trying to connect UBW to SAO run the very real risk of crashing the later.
Mm. I actually think it's easier to just peek into a World like that, versus spiritual surgery on the scale of removing an element. You're just looking into a place that already exists and has a concept of distance, after all, instead of trying to fiddle with something with no physical presence and no real location.
I've been thinking that Kayaba won't be able to directly interact with UBW.
But, like... That's more because it's fundamentally an "analog" virtual world, rather than a computer/digital one. So rather than it being impossible for him to hack into it, first he has to write, like, an entire interpreter and he just straight-up doesn't have the time.
I'm not decided on how much he knows about UBW yet; certainly he knows that Shirou has some kinda crazy something going on, based on his reports. Honestly I want him to figure out that it's a Marble specifically (instead of something whacky inherited from Kerry or whatever) later, during the Origin Patch, so I can tie the whole Reality Marble thing together with "approaching your Origin" when he's in a position to be expositing on it.
And messing with Shirou is very much "fixing something that isn't broken" for him right now.
I've been debating that Kayaba railroading Shirou into being the Final Boss is, just a convenient and useful cover to his real objective: isolating Shirou in a Workshop where he can manipulate Shirou into really min/maxing his character sheet once an OP prestige class gets unlocked, so to speak; that way Kayaba can research a Marble and increase the fighting power of someone that explicitly prioritizes human lives above the Statute of Secrecy.
But, like... That's more because it's fundamentally an "analog" virtual world, rather than a computer/digital one. So rather than it being impossible for him to hack into it, first he has to write, like, an entire interpreter and he just straight-up doesn't have the time.
I'm not decided on how much he knows about UBW yet; certainly he knows that Shirou has some kinda crazy something going on, based on his reports. Honestly I want him to figure out that it's a Marble specifically (instead of something whacky inherited from Kerry or whatever) later, during the Origin Patch, so I can tie the whole Reality Marble thing together with "approaching your Origin" when he's in a position to be expositing on it.
And messing with Shirou is very much "fixing something that isn't broken" for him right now.
I've been debating that Kayaba railroading Shirou into being the Final Boss is, just a convenient and useful cover to his real objective: isolating Shirou in a Workshop where he can manipulate Shirou into really min/maxing his character sheet once an OP prestige class gets unlocked, so to speak; that way Kayaba can research a Marble and increase the fighting power of someone that explicitly prioritizes human lives above the Statute of Secrecy.
I really like the idea of the Final Boss promotion essentially being Shirou stuck in a hermitage. There's also a good opportunity for friction between Kayaba and Shirou if they cooperate directly. I almost want it to be a relationship like the one between Shirou and Kotomine in Heaven's Feel - confrontational and distrusting but friendly in some bizarre manner.
I somehow have this idea that the 100th floor would be filled with ridiculously powerful mobs target practises for Shirou comparable to 90s floor bosses. Then the NPCs would tell the deeply concerned frontliners that the King would protect them etc etc.
I don't think Kayaba would let Shirou go lax, and what's better way to hone one's skill than in battle?
I don't think Kayaba would let Shirou go lax, and what's better way to hone one's skill than in battle?
On the idea of "Shirou locked on 100th Floor"... Which is the best point of storyline for Shirou to be plucked from the [Main Pool of Players], say, like canon!Heathcliff, after 95th Floor? Or upon clearing Floor 90, to get the last floors the "color" theme - somewhere it was mentioned in this thread...
(I can remember a Narnia shout-out, with Black Forest of Einzbern and the White Castle, populated by suspiciously Ilya-looking [Homunculi]-type enemies... and a [White Queen of Eternal Winter] Justeaze-expy Boss with Berserker as [Black Giant] Field Boss with 12 HP gauges + Regeneration/Healing from Justeaze + gaining immunities to whatever weapon/Sword Skill Branch drained a gauge... a suggestion to make [The Blue] a Boss, a random encounter with [The Kaleidoscope], Aozaki Touko as [Orange Puppeteer]...)
(I can remember a Narnia shout-out, with Black Forest of Einzbern and the White Castle, populated by suspiciously Ilya-looking [Homunculi]-type enemies... and a [White Queen of Eternal Winter] Justeaze-expy Boss with Berserker as [Black Giant] Field Boss with 12 HP gauges + Regeneration/Healing from Justeaze + gaining immunities to whatever weapon/Sword Skill Branch drained a gauge... a suggestion to make [The Blue] a Boss, a random encounter with [The Kaleidoscope], Aozaki Touko as [Orange Puppeteer]...)
Lets reserve that type of boss for the 'age of the gods' floor. It fits the theme a bit better.
In the modern era of magecraft, the big deal monsters have a tendency to remain hidden until they're ready to strike.
It's more that the bosses would back off and go for cheap shots until they decides on doing something big. A boss event. A relatively brief opportunity where the only people who can do something are the people on site (much like Tsukihime).
Tracking them would be hard, but possible.
In the modern era of magecraft, the big deal monsters have a tendency to remain hidden until they're ready to strike.
It's more that the bosses would back off and go for cheap shots until they decides on doing something big. A boss event. A relatively brief opportunity where the only people who can do something are the people on site (much like Tsukihime).
Tracking them would be hard, but possible.