Harry Potter Harry Potter, Harry Dresden Crossover Ideas

[Ryuugi]

As to being made of/saturated.

In canonical setting or if the cross was based on 'non connected waaaay back setting' like going through Veil of death, it would be silly.


However, what I'm trying to do is a fusion and some elements have to be streamlined, as being a slave to canon makes setting impossible

So potterverse being like Seireitei, and made of magic,a lesser evil. And not really impacting the plot if kept consistent.

It's the keeping it consistent part that's going to be really hard--if everything's made of magic, what does that mean? It's matter made of energy...like all matter, so it doesn't mean anything.

If one goes the Bleach route of being made of energy molecules or whatever, then you run into a bunch of other problems. How do you explain people. Are all the characters we see in HP not humans? Instead they're walking magic constructs?

Then what about the muggles? Have none of them noticed that they're energy constructs? How does this work in regards to science in HP in general? Was it not at all effected by everything being made of magic?

If it is, how the hell does that work? If it's not, then how can that be?

Etc. The existence of billions of people and modern science and all that makes this kind of collapse on itself.

Because potterverse as a magic setting is compatible with almost nothing.

Of course if we want to keep being more strict with sciency rule, I could use the power of belief warps reality and back it up with semi logical way, but that would also open another can of worms.

Here's how it can be explained with accordance to to dresdens' believ makes reality.

Belief doesn't make reality in the DF, though. Reality makes reality.

We know that there is thing like a cheering charm. So there might be rage/berkser spell, along with the ones causing apathy or sadism. Or their potion equivalent.

In effect they work on altering neurotransmitters production.

What if being a true occulmens means to be able to instantly cast these spells on oneself? To be a master of one's mind.

Of course the dangers of being able to alter one's mind on a whim are obvious, but still possibly worth the risk. Unless you fail, then it isn't pretty.

The problem is that wizards don't understand it, and they are only capable of generating a Pavlovian response at first aka. Snape's method of inoculation.

Actually, it would explain why mind reading/defence are not particularly known or popular. Or why the powerful wizards are bonkers.

That's...not really how stuff like that works at all...

Felix felicis might actually be a type of brain chemistry altering substance.

Itself it's some sort of a very potent anti-depressant, you can't help but feel happy, creative and seemingly able to do the impossible.
On the muggles it would probably just work like a miracle drug for curing depression.

However on the magicals, there is well, magic. It alters probability according to the will, sometimes subconscious (e.g accidental magic).

So the wizards aren't lucky directly via the potion. It just helps by entering them into the right state of mind.
[and from other post]

Um...Felix doesn't work like that either. At all. Among other things, it literally tells the drinker the best thing to do and changes accordingly if the Drinker does something else.

Or alternatively I can as well made an argument that cheering charm suppresses logos (part of soul governing reason) and influences thymos(responsible for emotions). It's just replacing scientific grounding for Platonic soul components.

And now affecting souls...?

Eh, no offense, but none of these scientific explanation make any...well, scientific sense and even if they did, coming up with scientific explanations for all of them will be a huge pain and basically impossible. To say nothing of the fact that even DF magic doesn't make scientific sense--magic is still being used and all.

If you're really trying to look for a DF compatible explanation for HP magic, science is not the way to go. Making it compatible period is going to be tough, but trying to explain it in terms of something that can't even explain DF magic is futile.

I'd probably start with something like the Will stuff Mother Winter and Odin did. They're beings so powerful that their will itself can redefine reality. Why there would be a culture of being like that, who knows, but it's the closest thing in the DF.

 

[IofTheBunny]

Belief doesn't make reality in the DF, though. Reality makes reality.

I made mental shortcut about magic shorting out electronics mostly because wizards believe it causes stuff like that.

@ setting consistency
Well, in the story I'm writing the focus won't be heavy on specifics of casting spells.

And even then, as HP is the main side, it matters little to local wizards how powered the spells are*, as long as they work.

*To an extent, excluding ritual sacrifice and so on for the saner ones.

@

Then what about the muggles? Have none of them noticed that they're energy constructs? How does this work in regards to science in HP in general? Was it not at all effected by everything being made of magic?

That makes one of the interesting moral dilemmas, for a Dresden wizard that ventures into HP world. Would laws even matter

Also even in Bleach the spirit particles saturate everything even in the real world, that includes muggles.

And yeah, I get that it makes the WW hidden hidden world.

As to tech, in a magical setting you are sooner or later bound to run into question that answers with, because magic.

@ scientific explainations or metaphysical ones

1st off, a speculation.

Scientific one would create insta walrocks by the dresden's terminology

Eh, no offense, but none of these scientific explanation make any...well, scientific sense and even if they did, coming up with scientific explanations for all of them will be a huge pain and basically impossible. To say nothing of the fact that even DF magic doesn't make scientific sense--magic is still being used and all.

Exactly, I sort of used both to sort of make a point that trying to explain HP magic is pain in the ass and exercise in futility.

We can make up and argue points till the end of the world and gain nothing.

I'd probably start with something like the Will stuff Mother Winter and Odin did. They're beings so powerful that their will itself can redefine reality. Why there would be a culture of being like that, who knows, but it's the closest thing in the DF.

Ok, that actually is a very cool answer to Why the Wizarding world exists and came to being.

EDIT: Chopped sentence.

 

[Ryuugi]

I made mental shortcut about magic shorting out electronics mostly because wizards believe it causes stuff like that.

...That's not how that works at all, though.

@ setting consistency
Well, in the story I'm writing the focus won't be heavy on specifics of casting spells.

And even then, as HP is the main side, it matters little to local wizards how powered the spells are*, as long as they work.

*To an extent, excluding ritual sacrifice and so on for the saner ones.

I'm not referring to the casting of spells at all, though. I'm referring to your statement of things being bade of magic and how that fails to make sense in a world full of scientists.

@

Then what about the muggles? Have none of them noticed that they're energy constructs? How does this work in regards to science in HP in general? Was it not at all effected by everything being made of magic?

That makes one of the interesting moral dilemmas, for a Dresden wizard that ventures into HP world. Would laws even matter

Yeah, the moral dilemma thing could come up. That's not remotely the point I was trying to get across, though. If every scientist in HP is living in a world where everything, including they themselves, is made of magic, how does that change the existence of science? How does this all fit into them being in a world made of magic, which still makes no sense, btw? How is scientific advancement and knowledge about the Universe effected?

Also even in Bleach the spirit particles saturate everything even in the real world, that includes muggles.

Yeah, but...that has nothing to do with what I was asking at all...

And yeah, I get that it makes the WW hidden hidden world.

What...?

As to tech, in a magical setting you are sooner or later bound to run into question that answers with, because magic.

Is this HP Scientists answer to everything then? How is the HP world effected?

P.S. We know it's not, by the way. This was sarcasm.

@ scientific explainations or metaphysical ones

1st off, a speculation.

Scientific one would create insta walrocks by the dresden's terminology

Wha...?

Eh, no offense, but none of these scientific explanation make any...well, scientific sense and even if they did, coming up with scientific explanations for all of them will be a huge pain and basically impossible. To say nothing of the fact that even DF magic doesn't make scientific sense--magic is still being used and all.

Exactly, I sort of used both to sort of make a point that trying to explain HP magic is pain in the ass and exercise in futility.

No, trying to explain it scientifically is a pain. The actual explanation is simple.

I'd probably start with something like the Will stuff Mother Winter and Odin did. They're beings so powerful that their will itself can redefine reality. Why there would be a culture of being like that, who knows, but it's the closest thing in the DF.

Ok, that actually is a very cool answer to Why the Wizarding world exists, came to being.

I was referring more to how they used magic. Even Mother Winter doesn't have the power to make a world.

Not much about how, but

???

 

[IofTheBunny]

That last sentence was a leftover from something I deleted, I didn't notice or removed it before you quoted.

Because it seems that the more I try to build fine detail, the less sense I make and the more I venture into BS territory.

So MAGIC.

About Science. The separation caused a slightly alternate development even if superficially it's similar.

It will surely lead to a bit of weird tech, some underlying principles being different as well as some designs being not discovered. The first thing that comes to mind is a bit different principle behind radio.

Engines may be noticeably more efficient compared to Dresden's world.

About Scientist, The Ether filled universe theory might be still a leading one. And having some serious evidence backing it. Beyond it? Dunno

But as in Bleach, despite similar situation, the influence of spirit particles is not deeply covered and ordinary tech seems to be mostly well, normal.

 

[IofTheBunny]

Shameless double post to keep things in order.

The whole first instalment of Life Lessons of Severus Snape.

With few minor fixes and introductory scene added.

Friday breakfast, was something of tradition among Hogwarts′ staff. Snape despite being sometimes vocal against it, he usually enjoyed it. There was something relaxing about all of them having complaints about more problematic students together.

″Sow how was your lesson with young Mr. Potter, Filius?″

It seemed that his distaste for this gathering was going to become genuine this year.

″He′s quite talented I must say. Though probably we will not be seeing him applying himself to theoretical side of craft.″

″His father would be proud of the latter.″ He couldn′t resist chiming in. After several years his comment had met only with roll of the eyes from Pomona.

″Really Severus? Can′t you let it go?″ Somehow Minerva managed to sound both tired and disapproving. ″At least give boy a chance.″

He covered his snarl with a cup raised to his lip, raised eyebrow completed the masking of true feelings.

Only years of inoculation stopped him from reacting when she had appeared. As for the last twelve years she was his personal demon, who wore the face of only person he ever loved and will love.

″Look, the boy finally got a mail.″ He wasn’t sure if hearing the voice was a blessing or a curse. Usually he settled for a blessing, part of Lily was with him. Even as an illusion.

Instinctively turning his head he saw the brat borrowing a quill from Weasley and scribbling something short as a reply.

Seeing how the dunderhead was holding it he knew he was going to enjoy reading his essays. Not.

′Sophie don′t you have something to do?′ He thought to her.

″It gets boring in the coin.″ She shrugged. ″Well, I can always have some quality time. Alone. Do enjoy the breakfast, the dwarf wants something from you.″ With that she disappeared again.

″Sorry, can you repeat Filius?″

″I asked if you have some particular troublemaker among your snakes.″

″Troublemakers?″ He smirked. ″They avoid troubles, or try to. Young Draco tastes first trials of saocial life. He can get a bit … tiring in trying to establish himself.″

″Proud of his father?″

″Extremely. How is the youngest Weasley here Minerva?″

″Refreshingly ordinary when compared to his brothers.″

The rest of the meal had been spent in similar fashion, all of them exchanging bits of gossip. On the way to the dungeon he was joined again by his personal fallen angel.

″Schoolgirl uniform? I thought you knew it doesn′t work on me.″

″I felt nostalgic.″

″You look ridiculous.″

″Wet blanket.″ She replied but changed into somewhat conservative if a fitting robe. He saw Narcissa purchasing a similar one when they met last time. Her hair reformed into a tight bun from a loose ponytail.

Turning around she faced him piercing him with her green eyes.

″Ready to face the music?″

He did not even notice reaching his classroom.

Ooo00ooO​

The being that wore Her face used it as opportunity to torment him again. He really should knew better by now. There was too much peace in his life recently.

"Awww, good old sappy Severus. Who knew you have such a soft heart. Good thinking with the use of the flower language, Potter will surely appreciate it, in a few years if he learns it."

He did his best to ignore her and tried to continue the lesson. The students were covering in the wake of his looming stride.

The fake Lily wasn't even looking at him. She walked slowly to stand behind Potter.

The Brat noticed that teacher′s attention was on him and started looking challengingly into his eyes. 

As his tormentor knelt, her face was next to the Potter's. Four mesmerizing green eyes were looking at him. Basilisk couldn't do a better job of turning him into stone.

'Why he doesn't have that moron's eyes...'

Struggling to keep his face composed, he retreated towards the blackboard. Turning away too quickly he almost brushed one of the firsties with his robe. Some potion ingredients fell on the floor.

"I have a better idea. Each lesson you should deduct enough points from him that the corresponding numbers in the Mendeleev's Table will carry a message. Granted, it will be a bit misspelt."

Even his Slytherins in the dungeon decided that it might not be the best idea to mess with the red morons that day. The ire would touch everyone guilty.

Good. 

For a moment he thought that this tranquillity would last.

Seemingly unmindful of his misery, the personal demon continued in a thoughtful voice. "Let's see... this lesson you should take fifty three, the next one thirty eight, then thirty nine..."

"Silence!" He hissed, and yet his half whispering voice carried and everyone froze in their tracks.

Ooo00ooO​

The supper was getting cold, normally he would eat with the rest of the staff, but today he was just too tired, both in body and mind. The pepper up potion was holding him up, but he was getting hungry.

″You should eat something, it’s not healthy to keep a fast.″ The voice came from behind him.

Grudgingly he conceded the point, a quick heating charm and the meal was edible again. He had missed dinner already.

Grabbing fork he considered his options. If he patrolled only the dungeons, he would not meet the Potter’s spawn till the next lesson with him.

Yes, that would work. And he could always scare him off if he ventured anywhere near.

He heard the soft rustling of cloth before she even appeared in his field of vision. Ignoring his glare as she usually did, she seated herself on the opposite end of the table.

He tried to lower his hand slowly but the clang of the utensil hitting the plate was still sharp and loud.

″What are you wearing?″ He demanded.

″Oh, this old thing?″ The definitely NOT Lily replied while tugging the sleeve of the soft green and silver flannel bathrobe. ″I wanted to try something homely today.″

She ruffled her hair a bit and proceeded to comb with her hand, her slim fingers tugging a bit in places where unruly strands had tangled . He only now noticed that she looks as if she had just taken a bath.

″You like? If we had a child we could send him to sleep and have some time for ourselves.″ She stopped combing and wiggled her eyebrows twice while smiling mischievously.

″Well you are a bachelor, so the point is moot.″ Shaking her head she let her mane fail into a natural unshaped style. He tried to avert his eyes, but to no avail.

Seeing him look at her she tilted her head and put one finger on her chin. ″I guess we could borrow Harry to be our son... Well, it′s getting late, I′m off to rest, you should do so too, soon.″

She stood up and walked to Snape.

″Stop it.″ He did not recognize his voice, it had been a voice of dementor, old dry and raspy.

″Stop what honey? I′m just saying we could be one happy family.″ Caressing his cheek she planted a small kiss on his nose.

″It′s so easy, just lower the shields in your mind sweetie.″ He heard her walking away, soft tap of bare feet on a stone floor. ″I′ll be waiting, goodnight.″

Omake​

In which we observe Sophia′s quality time alone and the author has an excuse to present some character study without clogging story proper.​

While not allowed deep into this man′s brain she was allowed to ′read′ the memories of his potion knowledge. Only those. Or so he thought, all memories are connected after all.

Smirking a bit she walked up to an old victorian bookcase. She had to admit, Snape had a taste in decorating his mindscape

″Potion lessons, Slughorn lessons, antidotes... ah there″ Finding what she was looking for she pulled the book from its place.

With a minor exertion of will she materialized a hammock. It was a bit jarring in the library but she was always a bit of a rebel.

Laying herself comfortably she stared reading. Swinging one leg to and fro she put the hammock into a relaxing movement.

″Heh, a bezoar. Smart girl, shame she had died.″ Mirth evident in her voice as well as a touch of sadness. ″She would made a splendid host.″

Reading more she giggled. Yes, a girl could keep herself entertained.

 

[pidl]

The problem with mixing two magic settings is that at one point one of them has to give. When two fundamental rules collide, you need to decide which setting 'wins'.

For example: a HP-wizard fires a killing curse at a DF-wizard in a circle. Which rule wins? No magic can cross a circle, or no magic can stop a killing curse?

Also: it's the Nevernever that's influenced by belief. And the more powerful beings in the Nevernever can influence realilty if they want.

 

[IofTheBunny]

Calls on canon, requesting citation support.

Whenever you do something with it, it comes from inside of you. Wizards have to focus on what they're trying to do, visualize it, believe in it, to make it work. You can't make something happen that isn't a part of you, inside.

I'm talking about this kind of belief.

Besides think about it, in a bit non literal sense, more in narrative terms, magic disrupting technology is one of those universal truths, that everyone knows. Even if it is just a passing thought it is a shitload of faith on a global scale. Especially if practitioners also believe in it.

Also, why items beyond 1950 - after the war. What do you associate with a technology? Mostly the designs that were created around then are still used now.

And how do you call items from, the beginning of century (pre WWII). You call them antics, no mater cars, clocks or phones.


Why it, meaning the effect, changes about every three centuries?

How long a generation lasts?

For mundane people around 25 years. (Now due to a rapid technological progress in first world countries some consider it to be 10 there)

For wizards who have lifespan of centuries?

It shifts every generation of a wizardkin.

Edit:typos

 

[seitora]

@IofTheBunny, you gonna post that up now on FFN ?

 

[IofTheBunny]

Gonna gonna, I'm doing a bit of rewriting to remove double subject indication and things like that.

 

[seitora]

Perfect, link it once you're done and I'll give you a review for your e-peen +1.

 

[Ryuugi]

Calls on canon, requesting citation support.

Whenever you do something with it, it comes from inside of you. Wizards have to focus on what they're trying to do, visualize it, believe in it, to make it work. You can't make something happen that isn't a part of you, inside.

I'm talking about this kind of belief.

Besides think about it, in a bit non literal sense, more in narrative terms, magic disrupting technology is one of those universal truths, that everyone knows. Even if it is just a passing thought it is a shitload of faith on a global scale. Especially if practitioners also believe in it.

Also, why items beyond 1950 - after the war. What do you associate with a technology? Mostly the designs that were created around then are still used now.

And how do you call items from, the beginning of century (pre WWII). You call them antics, no mater cars, clocks or phones.


Why it, meaning the effect, changes about every three centuries?

How long a generation lasts?

For mundane people around 25 years. (Now due to a rapid technological progress in first world countries some consider it to be 10 there)

For wizards who have lifespan of centuries?

It shifts every generation of a wizardkin.

Edit:typos

But...again, belief has nothing to do with why magic disrupts tech. Many practitioners, without even realizing they have magic or knowing what magic is, disrupt tech. It has nothing to do with what wizards believe--it was stated repeatedly that it had nothing to do with what wizards believe. It's merely the result of magical laws.

To say nothing of the fact that changing every generation makes no sense, because you're heavily, heavily confusing life-span with generation. Most wizards have children the same way normal people do--in their twenties, thirties, and forties. Female wizards suffer menopause normally. Three hundred years isn't a generation for wizards--its about ten or twenty generations.

And even if it was based on belief (which it's not) and caused by generational changes (which is can't be), what you're proposing would make no sense because the next generation would be raised by the beliefs of the previous generation.

That last sentence was a leftover from something I deleted, I didn't notice or removed it before you quoted.

Because it seems that the more I try to build fine detail, the less sense I make and the more I venture into BS territory.

So MAGIC.

About Science. The separation caused a slightly alternate development even if superficially it's similar.

It will surely lead to a bit of weird tech, some underlying principles being different as well as some designs being not discovered. The first thing that comes to mind is a bit different principle behind radio.

Engines may be noticeably more efficient compared to Dresden's world.

About Scientist, The Ether filled universe theory might be still a leading one. And having some serious evidence backing it. Beyond it? Dunno

But as in Bleach, despite similar situation, the influence of spirit particles is not deeply covered and ordinary tech seems to be mostly well, normal.

But...that doesn't make any sense at all in regards to HP...

 

[zerohour]

So, what can Dresdenverse wizards do/excel at compared to HP wizards?

HPverse seems to be mainly limited to short range, line of sight spells. There are some exceptions, but from what I recall, that seems to be the general rule.

Dresdenverse, not so much. It seems to have connections being a larger aspect of their magic. Getting someone's hair or blood allows you to work magic on them. Break up a lump of playdoh allows you to use each part as a foci for a scrying spell.

Possibly finesse might be another advantage they have. Even if Harry Potter could pull a satellite down out of orbit (which he might actually be able to do), it would home in on him and splatter him all over the place.

Dresdenverse seems to have bigger, badder monsters for the most part as well. Their dragons seem intelligent and more able to use magic compared to the beastlike dragons of HP. Vampires seems to be well in hand, as do most werewolves, and the wizards mainly sit as the sole power of the magical world. Dresdenverse has Vampires, Fairies, Demons, and more, many of which are on equal or superior standing compared to the white council.


Again, I could be wrong about this stuff, since it's been awhile since I read either series, but are there any other aspects where Dresdenverse wizards are superior?

 

[chrnno]

Hum... A HP/DF crossover thread where the Denarian Series by Shezza is not mentioned? Am I really supposed to take this seriously? For shame people, for shame. At least Ryuugi's was so not a total loss but that still leaves, Nuhuh's, Water Mage's and probably a few others I don't recall right now.

Jokes aside I think most of you guys are focusing on the wrong issue here. While in HP the wizards are pretty much the top all and can easily kill everyone else(assuming actual competence that is and canon has shown the dangers of doing so plus except maybe goblins but I think that was just JK not really thinking it through than actual part of the verse) while in DF they are nowhere near it. That has huge consequences, the mindset of HP!Wizards as written would lead them to being no more than pawns pretty quickly unless someone like Harry(either really) was at the forefront of their efforts and even then it would be a struggle making the whole war with Voldemort look like Heaven.

You people gotta keep in mind that the average wizard can't cast the most basic shielding charm, out of a population of tens of thousands(hundred thousand?) you have at most a few hundred that qualify as actual fighters and even then they have a huge weak spot in their wand(which is shown to break rather easily, one thing I could never get WSoD over). A DF!Wizard has the advantage of a Death Curse and the fact that as long as they are conscious they can still fight, a HP!Wizard who loses his wand has lost and they have nothing that makes even the higher powers careful in outright killing a wizard.

So in short either you revamp the HP world completely(which would make it pointless) or you change things so that either it is isolated or in another dimension. That way HP!Wizards in general don't have to deal with any of the supernatural DF factions, only the main characters Dumbledore, Harry, Voldemort and the like do so then you can have somewhat of a balance between them.

 

[TC_Hazard]

Hey, I totally link to nuhuh's fic on the first page.

But yeah, good call on Water Mage's stuff. Guy has two Dresden/Hp xovers. One being the multi chapter story, Awaken Sleeper. The other is a one shot with Sirius, This Could Get Lonely.

 

[Knyght]

Four actually, with two being on DLP. The more recent one has an interesting concept relevant to this discussion where the multiverse is like a staircase. At the top is Absolute Order (Heaven) and at the bottom is Absolute Chaos (Hell). The Dresdenverse is in the exact middle hence why they're magic is logical and consistent whilst the Potterverse is one step away from hell which is why their magic can fuck with reality so easily.

 

[pidl]

So, what can Dresdenverse wizards do/excel at compared to HP wizards?

HPverse seems to be mainly limited to short range, line of sight spells. There are some exceptions, but from what I recall, that seems to be the general rule.

Dresdenverse, not so much. It seems to have connections being a larger aspect of their magic. Getting someone's hair or blood allows you to work magic on them. Break up a lump of playdoh allows you to use each part as a foci for a scrying spell.

Possibly finesse might be another advantage they have. Even if Harry Potter could pull a satellite down out of orbit (which he might actually be able to do), it would home in on him and splatter him all over the place.

Dresdenverse seems to have bigger, badder monsters for the most part as well. Their dragons seem intelligent and more able to use magic compared to the beastlike dragons of HP. Vampires seems to be well in hand, as do most werewolves, and the wizards mainly sit as the sole power of the magical world. Dresdenverse has Vampires, Fairies, Demons, and more, many of which are on equal or superior standing compared to the white council.


Again, I could be wrong about this stuff, since it's been awhile since I read either series, but are there any other aspects where Dresdenverse wizards are superior?

DF seems to be vastly superior when it comes to illusions. Probably because we haven't actually seen one in HP.

 

[Ryuugi]

So, what can Dresdenverse wizards do/excel at compared to HP wizards?

HPverse seems to be mainly limited to short range, line of sight spells. There are some exceptions, but from what I recall, that seems to be the general rule.

Not really. There have been several wide area effects beyond what any know DF wizard can do with Evocation (Fiendfyre) and casual continent spanning works (such as the Trace and Taboo).

Dresdenverse, not so much. It seems to have connections being a larger aspect of their magic. Getting someone's hair or blood allows you to work magic on them. Break up a lump of playdoh allows you to use each part as a foci for a scrying spell.

True, but enormously limited--without a powerful threshold, laying anything but minor, temporary spells is impossible for all but the strongest wizards. Things like blood and hair, meanwhile, is a lot more complicated then it looks, which is why Harry, for example, rarely gets a chance to use it. Using hair requires an existing end on the other side--getting another haircut ruins it completely. Using blood is even trickier:

“Because Molly has to go with me each and every time or they won’t let me back in,
and she’s out dealing with your scouts,” Thomas said. “You worried about that faerie
crew using your blood to track you?”
“Not sure. Using it is trickier than most people think,” I said. “You’ve got to keep it
from drying out, and you’ve got to get it undiluted. It was raining, so if someone wanted
my blood, they’d have had to get to it pretty quick—and it looked like Sith was keeping
them busy.”
“Sith?” Butters asked.
“Not what you’re thinking,” I said.
“Oh,” he said, clearly disappointed.
“Besides,” I said to Thomas, “I’m less worried about them using it to follow me than
using it to make my heart stop beating. Or you know . . . explode out of my chest.”
Thomas blinked. “They can do that?”
“Oh, my God,” Butters said, blinking. “Is that what that was?”
“Yes, they can do that, and probably, if you mean all those murders around the Three-
Eye drug ring bust,” I answered them. “Butters, what’s the story here? You done yet?”
“Empty night,” Thomas said, his manner suddenly serious. “Harry . . . shouldn’t we
be putting up circles or something?”
“No point,” I said. “If they’ve got your blood, they’ve got you, period. Maybe if I ran
and hid somewhere in the Nevernever, but even then it isn’t certain.”
“How much blood do they need?” Butters asked.
“Depends,” I said. “Depends on how efficient their magic is—their skill level.
Depends on how fresh the blood is. Depends on the day of the week and the phase of the
moon, for all I know. It isn’t something I’ve experimented with. The more energy they’re
sending your way, the more blood they need.”
“Meaning what?” Butters asked. “Sit up so I can dress these.”
I sat up and lifted my arms out of the way as I explained. “A tracking spell is hardly
anything, in terms of energy input,” I said. “They wouldn’t need much at all for that.”
Butters wound a strip of linen bandage around my midsection several times. “But if
they want to make your head explode, it takes a lot more?”
“Depends how good they are,” I said. “They don’t have to crush your head into paste,
sledgehammer style. Maybe they put an ice pick up your nose. Less force but
concentrated into a smaller area, see?” I shuddered a little. “If they’ve got my blood and
can use it, I’m fucked and that’s that. But until that happens, I’m going to assume that I
still have a chance and proceed as if I do.”

To say nothing of how difficult is can sometimes be to get hair or significant amounts of blood in the first place--I'm struggling to think of a situation where you could get that from an HP wizard.

To say nothing of how all that stuff requires Thaumaturgy, requiring significant time to prepare, where as HP magic is all off the cuff.

(Besides which, line-of-sight ceases to be a weakness once teleportation is easy.)

Possibly finesse might be another advantage they have. Even if Harry Potter could pull a satellite down out of orbit (which he might actually be able to do), it would home in on him and splatter him all over the place.

Doesn't really matter--HP Wizards crippling advantages don't come from just their overwhelming advantages in specific fields, but everything taken together. In this case, good old teleportation wins the day.

(Besides which, this point is most likely wrong. HP Magic has the significant advantage in terms of finesse in general.)

Dresdenverse seems to have bigger, badder monsters for the most part as well. Their dragons seem intelligent and more able to use magic compared to the beastlike dragons of HP. Vampires seems to be well in hand, as do most werewolves, and the wizards mainly sit as the sole power of the magical world. Dresdenverse has Vampires, Fairies, Demons, and more, many of which are on equal or superior standing compared to the white council.

This part is true, generally. HP Wizards are the uncontested top dogs, where as DF wizards are low on the totem pole. There are a bunch of beings in the DF who can solo the entire WC.

Again, I could be wrong about this stuff, since it's been awhile since I read either series, but are there any other aspects where Dresdenverse wizards are superior?

As I point out above, I'm struggling to think of any where they're superior period.

Jokes aside I think most of you guys are focusing on the wrong issue here. While in HP the wizards are pretty much the top all and can easily kill everyone else(assuming actual competence that is and canon has shown the dangers of doing so plus except maybe goblins but I think that was just JK not really thinking it through than actual part of the verse) while in DF they are nowhere near it. That has huge consequences, the mindset of HP!Wizards as written would lead them to being no more than pawns pretty quickly unless someone like Harry(either really) was at the forefront of their efforts and even then it would be a struggle making the whole war with Voldemort look like Heaven.

How do you figure? Barring the extremely strong beings like Mab and the Dragons, who generally are kept from interfering by either other beings (Titania) or external factors...HP Wizards would casually roll over pretty much all their opposition in the DF.

Vampires? HP has spells to generate sunlight.

Fae? HP Wizards can casually transfigure/conjure iron.

Etc.

You people gotta keep in mind that the average wizard can't cast the most basic shielding charm, out of a population of tens of thousands(hundred thousand?) you have at most a few hundred that qualify as actual fighters and even then they have a huge weak spot in their wand(which is shown to break rather easily, one thing I could never get WSoD over).

Not really relevant. HP wizards have so many advantages that their direct combat power is negligible. Once more, the huge advantage which pretty much erases all their weak points--casual teleportation. A wizard in a danger position or caught with their pants down can just pop away.

Beyond that, you're underestimating the number of people who could fight, if needed--especially with the ways open to fight with HP magic. Anyone with about third year Charms or Transfiguration is lethal enough in DF to not need Shields.

A DF!Wizard has the advantage of a Death Curse and the fact that as long as they are conscious they can still fight, a HP!Wizard who loses his wand has lost and they have nothing that makes even the higher powers careful in outright killing a wizard.

The wand isn't a weakness in HP when no one has any ability to exploit it (and even then, it doesn't disable teleportation and thus is easily rectified). Beyond that, you're wrong on a number of notes--it was stated repeatedly that the large, large majority of DF Wizards have no combat experience--the groups that are actually good in a fight amounts to one or two hundred (the Wardens, generally). HP wins in numbers, by a lot, especially since its ability to use all magic on the fly gives it the ability to adapt spells to combat. Transfiguration is uber-lethal.

So in short either you revamp the HP world completely(which would make it pointless) or you change things so that either it is isolated or in another dimension. That way HP!Wizards in general don't have to deal with any of the supernatural DF factions, only the main characters Dumbledore, Harry, Voldemort and the like do so then you can have somewhat of a balance between them.

Man, if HP was unleashed on the DF and actually gave a damn (considering that their magic enables them to casually avoid notice from anyone and chill in the background), they would casually dominate. They're magic system is just that over powering in the DF.

DF seems to be vastly superior when it comes to illusions. Probably because we haven't actually seen one in HP.

Not even that, really, since performing veils quickly enough to matter in a combat situation is something very, very rare among combat capable wizards--who themselves make up a small minority of the population.

And even amongst those guys, this is a field where HP wizards win in terms of power--the Disillusionment Charm alone, for example, puts anyone capable of it on the same level as the Skinwalker in terms of disguising themselves, and advanced users can become completely invisible. Added to the fact that they have easy ways to silence things and probably make them scentless, and what Bob mentioned in Full Moon to be an unbelievable expensive and advanced form of magic can be done casually by a wizard in a few seconds.

So in terms of using illusions in combat, the HP wizards win where it matters--their illusions are completely effective, long-lasting, take no concentration, and require no power, even if they are limited to complete and utter invisibility (which is a pretty damn good trick). Even if DF magic wins in versatility, it's too difficult, tiring, and focus heavy to keep up.

On the other side of things, to break through HP illusions, a wizard would need to use the Sight, with is very, very hard on them. A Wizard could just conjure up a few wolves or, God forbid, a Silvertip Grizzly or two. Too say nothing of how an Enlarged Jumping Spider would ruin an illusionist day--good luck countering the vision of a creature that sees in four primary colors when you can't even tell what they're seeing. A Giant Mantis Shrimp, meanwhile, ruins peoples days in a bunch of ways, though you have to make it able to survive on land first.

(Transfiguration is broken, broken, broken, broken bullshit.)

 

[pidl]

Or the DF wizards could just use the cream the Gatekeeper made to see through the disillusionement.
Molly seems to be quite capable of some really advanced things even in combat and I don't think HP-wizards have a way to see through them (except Moody's eye).

Transfiguration is broken, broken bullshit because you make it so. We have no idea of the details or the limitations of it, but that does not mean there aren't any.
Whose to say the senses of the conjured/transfigured animals are any better than those of the person who cast the spell? Or how many HP-wizards are even capable of it?

 

[Ryuugi]

Or the DF wizards could just use the cream the Gatekeeper made to see through the disillusionement.

That doesn't work on human illusions, as far as I'm aware, and wouldn't matter even if it did because there are, what? A handful of wizards with the stuff?

Molly seems to be quite capable of some really advanced things even in combat and I don't think HP-wizards have a way to see through them (except Moody's eye).

Sure, if you ignore all the ways to bypass their illusions that I already pointed out. As is, HP wizards bypass illusions casually.

Transfiguration is broken, broken bullshit because you make it so. We have no idea of the details or the limitations of it, but that does not mean there aren't any.

Now you're just grasping at straws. We've seen a lot of transfiguration in the HP series and while there are limits in there somewhere--but none that remotely matter here, because of what we know for sure it can do, which is casually rearrange matter with no limit on what it can turn stuff into, up to and including the creation of sentient, permanent life.

Also, casual rearrangement of matter is broken, period, full stop. There are so many ways to abuse stuff like that it's not even funny.

Whose to say the senses of the conjured/transfigured animals are any better than those of the person who cast the spell? Or how many HP-wizards are even capable of it?

This is seriously your best attempt to refute my argument? Really? 'Well, we don't know that the animals have sense of animals'--Seriously?

Okay, just for starters--yes, we do. Bats have been transfigured and they were perfectly capable of echolocation (another thing that screws over veils), and transfigured dogs have retailed all of their abilities to track by scent. It has been canonically stated that transfigured beings have the natural abilities of whatever they've turned into, up to and including the mental abilities (which is why turning yourself into a bat is bad). Besides which, 'the transfigured animals may actually have this stupid weakness that was never brought up because it doesn't say there isn't, even though there's no evidence for it at all whatsoever' is a bad argument tactic and you should feel bad.

Beyond that, pretty much all HP wizards are capable of it. Turning nonliving objects into living objects is first taught in first year and is continually taught through at least fifth year. Switching is taught in third and fourth, Conjuration and Vanishing in fourth and up, Human transfiguration in sixth and seventh, and so on. Any HP wizard that went to school knows how to do that stuff, because its a core class.

 

[TC_Hazard]

Or the DF wizards could just use the cream the Gatekeeper made to see through the disillusionement.
Molly seems to be quite capable of some really advanced things even in combat and I don't think HP-wizards have a way to see through them (except Moody's eye).

Transfiguration is broken, broken bullshit because you make it so. We have no idea of the details or the limitations of it, but that does not mean there aren't any.
Whose to say the senses of the conjured/transfigured animals are any better than those of the person who cast the spell? Or how many HP-wizards are even capable of it?

The cream is not exactly a thing they sell at the supermarket. A badass older wizard made it. Far from common really.

Illusions, by nature, always tend to be hard to deal with. You need to realize you're in it in the first place and all that. In any case, not exactly a common ability for either side. Molly can do it, but she has a special talent in that general area and had tutoring from Lea of all people.

As an aside, if you turn a chair into a wolf I'm going to assume you turned it into a wolf. For much the same reason I'm going to assume fire is hot even if you made it with magic.

 

[Ryuugi]

Or the DF wizards could just use the cream the Gatekeeper made to see through the disillusionement.
Molly seems to be quite capable of some really advanced things even in combat and I don't think HP-wizards have a way to see through them (except Moody's eye).

Transfiguration is broken, broken bullshit because you make it so. We have no idea of the details or the limitations of it, but that does not mean there aren't any.
Whose to say the senses of the conjured/transfigured animals are any better than those of the person who cast the spell? Or how many HP-wizards are even capable of it?

The cream is not exactly a thing they sell at the supermarket. A badass older wizard made it. Far from common really.

Illusions, by nature, always tend to be hard to deal with. You need to realize you're in it in the first place and all that. In any case, not exactly a common ability for either side. Molly can do it, but she has a special talent in that general area and had tutoring from Lea of all people.

As an aside, if you turn a chair into a wolf I'm going to assume you turned it into a wolf. For much the same reason I'm going to assume fire is hot even if you made it with magic.

Well, too be fair, HP magic can do a lot of shit with fire--such as the Bluebell Flames, which are also called Blue Fire. It can be picked up in someone's hands and doesn't go out even inside closed jars or underwater.

Of course, even that burns stuff held over it and generates heat--it's just an example of HP magic fucking with basic principles and laughing at physics. There are several other types of spells that can create: Normal fire, black and purple fire which burns unless someone drinks a potion, makes things burn without a source of heat, generates fire without heat, flames that can be held in ones hands, multicolored flames, etc.

Hell, there's even Gubraithian Fire, which is normal fire enchanted to never go out or consume fuel. Yes, wizards can theoretically create perpetual motion machines.

I once told someone that if HP Wizards and Scientists worked together, Earth would look like the Culture in a Century. Hell, the Culture with Time Travel. I'm not lying about it being ridiculous bullshit--off the top of my head, the only thing I recall being more abusable is D&D magic.

 

[pidl]

Okay, just for starters--yes, we do. Bats have been transfigured and they were perfectly capable of echolocation (another thing that screws over veils), and transfigured dogs have retailed all of their abilities to track by scent. It has been canonically stated that transfigured beings have the natural abilities of whatever they've turned into, up to and including the mental abilities (which is why turning yourself into a bat is bad). Besides which, 'the transfigured animals may actually have this stupid weakness that was never brought up because it doesn't say there isn't, even though there's no evidence for it at all whatsoever' is a bad argument tactic and you should feel bad.

When was this? I don't seem to remember things transformed into bats or dogs?

 

[Ryuugi]

Okay, just for starters--yes, we do. Bats have been transfigured and they were perfectly capable of echolocation (another thing that screws over veils), and transfigured dogs have retailed all of their abilities to track by scent. It has been canonically stated that transfigured beings have the natural abilities of whatever they've turned into, up to and including the mental abilities (which is why turning yourself into a bat is bad). Besides which, 'the transfigured animals may actually have this stupid weakness that was never brought up because it doesn't say there isn't, even though there's no evidence for it at all whatsoever' is a bad argument tactic and you should feel bad.

When was this? I don't seem to remember things transformed into bats or dogs?

The bat this was in the...I don't spell the Qudditch book's name. The dog was in one of the Transfiguration classes (or at least something dog like was), plus Sirius. Hell, now that I think about it, there's the snake thing, too, where the snake was venomous and could speak parseltounge. Birds can fly normally, as well.

But really, TC has the gist of it:

As an aside, if you turn a chair into a wolf I'm going to assume you turned it into a wolf. For much the same reason I'm going to assume fire is hot even if you made it with magic.

 

[pidl]

Ah, never read the other books.

Meh, the problem to me is that HP isn't really focused on the descriptions of magic and even less on it's limitations. Which means that when comparing it with DF, which almost always mentions the limits of it's magic system, it naturally comes of as superior.

You have to arbitrarily decide on limits to even have a chance of a somewhat equal system. It's why god-mode HP is so easy to write, there's nothing in canon that actually limits what is possible (except for those transfiguration laws).

In DF there is a known limit to almost everything, except perhaps rituals: they seem to be able to kill a whole lot of people (Changes) and without any link to the victim (White Night). And what the Blackstaff (the actual staff, not Ebenezar) can do.

 

[Lucemon]

The crossover I'm looking forward to is ToAru/Dresden.