Nasuverse I believe the local parlance is 'crackfic'?

[Pale Wolf]

This is just an odd crossover idea I had. Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha and Fate/Stay Night. Nanoha (or Fate, or any of the mages really) get summoned as Caster. Follow from there. (I like Fate for it because she's very physical, and thus has more of a WTF factor if summoned as Caster)

Of course, I don't especially see either of them as favouring the 'steal mana from random civilians' path, so it's interesting to figure out just where they'd go from there, but...

Just a thought I wanted to share.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Well, it'd require ignoring how the Grail works, but I suppose it'd be doable. After all, it's supposed to be a crackfic xover, not a serious one.

I like it, at any rate, but then, I'm the nutjob who suggested having Agrias replace Saber... :snigger:

 

[Pale Wolf]

Well, it'd require ignoring how the Grail works

How so, precisely?

I mean, it would be interesting to try and reconcile the different systems of magic... Nanoha transfer spells are especially 'interesting'. (They're dimensional stuff! Ie. almost another variant of Zeltretch's Jewelry True Magic! And they're a baseline skill) And in Type-Moon, sorcery is specifically stated to be something 'anyone can learn', while Nanoha stuff is, on Earth, extremely rare.

Although you could say that Zeltretch's Jewelry can do any dimensional transfer, including between alternate timelines, while transfers are bound to a single timeline. And maybe Nanoha Earth and Nasu Earth could be two different worlds that have a different rate of magical ability, where Nasu-Earth has magical potential as almost ubiquitous... That's the best alignment I've managed so far, at least.

The other 'interesting' part is figuring out just what our little mage does. I mean, she doesn't steal mana as her canon counterpart did. So after getting away from her master (assuming that goes as canon), what does she do? Tremendous mana reserves can help, but they won't give her independent action forever, especially not at combat levels - she'll need a master. So what does she do? Spy around and try to make her mana go as far as it can?

Contract with Ilya? I get the feeling Ilya would turn her down...

Shinji? ... Why would anyone want to?

Rin? Shirou?

Sakura?

Kotomine? If she stumbles across him at the wrong time, she might make the bad call and get stuck working for him as Lancer did...

Some new master who summons the Assassin for this round?

We could go really AU and have her find, heal, and contract with Bazette, which'd possibly be funky but also difficult at best for me at least to write since I've never played Hollow Ataraxia and know only a very little about her personality and capabilities.

After all, it's supposed to be a crackfic xover, not a serious one.

I probably would try to write it seriously. I'm way too serious for my own good.

I like it, at any rate, but then, I'm the nutjob who suggested having Agrias replace Saber...

Oh? I don't seem to have seen this at any point.

 

[GenocideHeart]

The point is the Grail can only summon people with an actual legend surrounding them in the world it's used in, and the legend doesn't match the person at times. See how despite generally fighting intelligently, Hercules was summoned as Berserker.

You'd have to twist how the Grail workd in summoning heroic spirits for it to summon any Nanoha girl, since they are essentially fctional beings, unless you use the excuse of how Kojiro was made - and that can have adverse consequences.

As for he Agrias remark, you won't find it anywhere on this forum. I suggested it in a chat with F1.

 

[toraneko]

Too bad, GH. That idea is just full of win.

Anyway, I did some homework on the world of F/SN.

Apparently, the way the Grail works is by summoning Heroic Souls from the Throne of Souls - an artifact that exists outside of time and space, thus why Future!Shirou could be summoned as Archer.
Being a "legend" can make one into a Heroic Soul - case in point, Kojiro!Assassin - but not always. Normally, heroes have to die in order to be taken to the Throne, but again, this is not always the case - Arturia (and likely Emiya!Archer) made a deal with the Guardian Spirit of Mankind, Alaya; in other words, they sold their souls in exchange for a miracle.

In the Grail Wars, the form, personality, powers, and role of a Servant is dependant on three things:
1) The legend associated with the Heroic Soul. Cu Chulainn (Lancer) was seen as being honorable (in the sense that he would never break a promise) but absolutely vicious and ruthless in battle.
The location of the battle also has an effect; a Hero's "home turf" strengthens their connection to their own legend, and in turn strengthens them. Archer was powered down because his story hadn't been told yet, and it's entirely likely that Kojiro was only as decent a fighter as he was because he's in Japan (being a "fake Hero" and lacking a real Master). Conversely, Lancer would have been quite a bit stronger in Ireland, Saber would've been stronger in Britain, and if the Grail War had occurred in Greece, Berserker would have been absolutely guaranteed to win (since, in both F/SN and in legend, not even death could beat him).
2) The power of the Master. Having a weak or poorly-trained Master results in the Servant losing much of the power they should have, as seen by the increase in power Saber got when she took Rin on as her Master.
3) The class of Servant into which the Heroic Soul is summoned. Lancer was the perfect role for Cu Chulainn. By contrast, Heracles - who was famous not only for his strength but also his intellect and skill at archery - lost many of his abilities due to being summoned as Berserker.
I personally theorize that Future!Emiya would have been much, much more powerful had he been summoned as Saber.

It should be noted that Lancer's rightful Master was Bazett. Kotomine stole her Command Seals (he wasn't one of the seven Masters chosen by the Grail for the Fifth Grail War) and ownership of Lancer came with them.
Matou Shinji was also never a real Master; he blackmailed Sakura (Rider's real Master) into making Rider obey him.

 

[TheEcchiSessha]

Apparently, the way the Grail works is by summoning Heroic Souls from the Throne of Souls - an artifact that exists outside of time and space, thus why Future!Shirou could be summoned as Archer.
Being a "legend" can make one into a Heroic Soul - case in point, Kojiro!Assassin - but not always. Normally, heroes have to die in order to be taken to the Throne, but again, this is not always the case - Arturia (and likely Emiya!Archer) made a deal with the Guardian Spirit of Mankind, Alaya; in other words, they sold their souls in exchange for a miracle.

Yes. This is mostly true. However the Throne of Souls is more of plane of existance. Also the Grail is currently tainted, which allows Non-heros like Caster and Rider to be summoned.(At least in canon, its tainted. AU withstanding)

Also Emiya!Archer or just EMIYA, actually died and was placed in the Throne of Souls. This happened for two reasons: His contract with "the world" for a miracle and he was a legend in his own time for his deeds. He was ironically killed by someone he had saved at one time. His history before becoming a hero was quite sad. He killed thousands of people trying to save a few hundred who were destined to die anyway, dispite this he did alot of good.

Emiya!Archer was not placed in the Throne of Souls like most Heros however. He became what was called a "counter guardian". A counter guardian is a being that is summoned after a catastrophe to eliminate all human life in the area. Imagine your trying to be a hero even in death, only to come back and take more lives while saving none. This is why Emiya!Archer tries to kill Shirou in the UBW arc. Even though Shirou most likely will not end up as Archer, Archer believe that him killing Shirou will create a great enough paradox that it will rip his soul out existance. Thus ending him and his misery.

In the Grail Wars, the form, personality, powers, and role of a Servant is dependant on three things:
1) The legend associated with the Heroic Soul. Cu Chulainn (Lancer) was seen as being honorable (in the sense that he would never break a promise) but absolutely vicious and ruthless in battle.
The location of the battle also has an effect; a Hero's "home turf" strengthens their connection to their own legend, and in turn strengthens them. Archer was powered down because his story hadn't been told yet, and it's entirely likely that Kojiro was only as decent a fighter as he was because he's in Japan (being a "fake Hero" and lacking a real Master). Conversely, Lancer would have been quite a bit stronger in Ireland, Saber would've been stronger in Britain, and if the Grail War had occurred in Greece, Berserker would have been absolutely guaranteed to win (since, in both F/SN and in legend, not even death could beat him).
2) The power of the Master. Having a weak or poorly-trained Master results in the Servant losing much of the power they should have, as seen by the increase in power Saber got when she took Rin on as her Master.
3) The class of Servant into which the Heroic Soul is summoned. Lancer was the perfect role for Cu Chulainn. By contrast, Heracles - who was famous not only for his strength but also his intellect and skill at archery - lost many of his abilities due to being summoned as Berserker.
I personally theorize that Future!Emiya would have been much, much more powerful had he been summoned as Saber.

1) Yes. Location plays a part in their over-all power, however it's actually the smallest factor. Also, the holy grail of F/SN could only be summoned in 4 different places, all of them around the city.( Also in regards to Archer!Shirou be "depowered" becuase of his story not being told. It is sorta true and then again not. As one of his Phantasm( a shield with 7 layers) actually became more powerful when people from his time saw him using it. They believed it was more powerful than it was and becuase of that it acutally did become stronger :sweat: )

2) Yes. All of this is true. When Saber was with Shirou, her power was at its lowest because she couldn't get any mana. When Saber was with Rin, she became more powerful as she had a master with a large amount of mana. However, Saber was at her strongest when she was under Sakura's control. Servants have a limit to the amount they can hold. The main reason Saber was so strong was the large amount of mana she had in life. Her legend is dragon based which is somehow or other high mana. Sakura had UNLIMITED mana when she was under the shadows control. The only reason she was defeated by Rin was because of Rin's weapon(which basically gave her unlimited mana) and Sakura was only able to use as much mana as her magic circuits would hold.

3) Once again true. Hercules would have been much stronger if he was summoned as Archer.

As for EMIYA being stronger if he was summoned as Saber. Maybe, but not likey. His greatest strength was his Reality Marble which allowed him to create any weapon he has SEEN. He could use these created weapons as "Broken Phantasm" which basically is an A level attack. To put it in perpective, Lancer's two attacks ,which are quite nasty, are only B level attacks. (On a sidenote, Berserker's phantasm, God Hand, NULLIFIES B level and below attacks.) EMIYA can also create armor but it takes more mana as he is more aligned with weapons(or to be more precise, swords).

Edit: Also would like to note that it might be impossible for EMIYA to be summoned as Saber as that class requires the Hero to have many of their stats A or B level.

/rant

Sorry about the rant, just wanted to clear up what you had learned a bit.

Normally I would leave this to the Master F1, but I figured I would pull my weight around here. You probably won't see me say this much for a while.

~The Ecchi Sessha

P.S. Watch F1 come here and "pwn" me for messing up somewhere.

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

The point is the Grail can only summon people with an actual legend surrounding them in the world it's used in, and the legend doesn't match the person at times. See how despite generally fighting intelligently, Hercules was summoned as Berserker.

Actually a good portion of the legends surrounding Hercules were about his tendency of going into berserker rages (helped along by Hera) which were the reason for several of the adventures he undertook such as the Twelve Labors.

On another note I was wondering if anyone could answer. Do to later cultures tendency to change the names and some of the details surrounding various legendary figures does that mean that their would be more then one hero in Throne of Souls with the same Phantasm?

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[toraneko]

Good point about the Broken Phantasms. Still, Shirou as Saber is an idea worth toying with, I think.

I still maintain that Heracles should've been under a different class. Yes, I know about his (only one notable occasion in my memory) going berserk, but IIRC, that was the doing of Hera. And, yeah, having 11 extra lives, near-total imperviousness to damage, and demigod strength (raised above and beyond what was present in his original lifetime, thanks to Mad Enhancement) are all massive bonuses to performance as a Berserker, but I still maintain my position.
Greek mythology (and Heracles, Medusa, and the Argonauts' respective legends with it) was my introduction into studying multiple cultures' myths and legends. It got a lot of desk-time. This is another reason why FSN is such a big hit with me. ^_^

In looking up detailed information for this, I found a very useful wiki site on the Nasuverse.
Link

Very in-depth. The author doesn't use the world's best English, but it's fully understandable. I especially took note of the original texts of the incantations for Shirou and Archer's Unlimited Blade Works - the odd way TM translated the incantation into English obscures some of their meaning, but also gives other very telling hints as well.

Also, about multiple ideals of the same hero showing up in the Throne: Doesn't happen that way. In point of fact, part of Rider's character involves how cultural beliefs change a hero from one form into another.
As for copies of a Noble Phantasm... I don't think it's possible. There is a different method for such a thing to work out, though. As Gilgamesh proved, there are "evolutions" of legendary weapons - e.g. Siegfried's sword Gram (a.k.a. Balmung) into Excalibur (although that's an incorrect progression in our world, but I digress) - that become individual Noble Phantasms in their own right.

 

[TheEcchiSessha]

Still, Shirou as Saber is an idea worth toying with, I think.

Mosh is in the process on a story going this route. Check it out right here. ( Yeah, please remember this is before I knew what I know now about F/SN.)

It always good to find more people interested in F/SN IMO.

~The Ecchi Sessha

 

[Eternity]

The greatest hero in Greek mythology. Half human half god born between the all-mighty god Zeus and a human woman.

He was talented in every way, but Hercules had a big personality problem.
When he was small, he ended up killing his harp teacher with his fist over a small matter. Since then, in order to soften his violent temper, he grew up as a shepherd.
Becoming an admirable young man, Hercules completed several great deeds. Given the daughter of the King of Thebes, Megara, he earned two children and the right to inherit the throne.
Humans were no match for the young and athletic Hercules.
All seemed well given a daughter of a King and having two children.

However, Zeus's wife Hera thoroughly hated Hercules who was a child made between a human, and she played with his fate at every chance she had.

First of all, Hera made Hercules go mad and made him kill Megara and his two children.
Suffering over the sin that he committed, he was sent to work as a slave to Eurystheus, the man who took the crown in place of him, for his atonement.
Eurystheus was jealous of the powerful hero Hercules and gave him numerous tasks, and till he completes these tasks, he claimed that Hercules will be a slave forever.
Tasks that are impossible to accomplish by a power of mere human beings. These were the famous twelve labors of Hercules.

The number of labors ordered by the gods were originally ten, but because Eurystheus didn't accept the accomplishment of two, he additionally received two more labors.
But Hercules safely got through those tasks, and not only was he released from slavery, he received an immortal body as a prize of the great accomplishments.
Greatest hero of Greek. The Trojan War; Settling the most significant event equal to the Argo Expedition, the great hero Hercules was born.
Still, his remainder of his life was also full of madness.
The hatred of Goddess Hera was never ending, and the immortal Hercules was poisoned to death by one of his numerous wives.
The great hero who fought equally with the Sun God even as a human, ended up getting killed little by little by the jealousy of a Goddess.
Hercules burned himself to death in the poisoned condition to have the all-mighty Zeus decide his judgement.

After a discussion, the gods acknowledged Hercules's accomplishments and they prepared a position in Olympus and honored him as a god.
Hercules went crazy numerous times in the myth, but he was actually a talented warrior skilled in many weaponry.
He had the qualification to become any of the six classes not including Caster. The finest Noble Phantasm out of all the ones he possessed was a bow and arrow named &quotNine Lives - Beheading Hundred" which he acquired through the twelve labors.

The above is a copy of the text on Berserker, aka Hercules from the game, I believe anyway, I could be wrong.

if you read through it you will not that he is qualified to be sommoned as any of the six classes other then Caster.

going by this it isn't to hard to assume that class has a fair amount of affect on the spirit summoned, Saber tends to have good stats all around, also a very high resistance to magic *such that normally only Caster can effect that class*

Also this following is something I've found that may be true, or at least close to true for the various class base stats

Basic ability by class
Saber
STR A CON B AGI B MGI C LCK D
Lancer
STR B CON C AGI A MGI D LCK E
Archer
STR C CON C AGI C MGI E LCK E
Rider
STR D CON D AGI B MGI C LCK E
Assassin
STR D CON D AGI B MGI E LCK B
Berserker
STR C CON D AGI D MGI E LCK E
Caster
STR E CON E AGI C MGI A LCK B

Personal strengths will no doubt shine through, and personal skills will be shown as well, such as Gil's Divinity, Charisma and Golden Rule or Casters 'High-Speed Divine Words' and the Golden Fleece, which incidently has a spirit inside it ^^; so Bardich and such wouldn't be so out of the question, just because they have a sentience.

well I hope this has helped some, I'll try and answer any other questions *that I'm able* when/if you have them ^^

 

[toraneko]

An important addition to that list is the innate abilities of each class. Specifically, in the case of Berserker, that class has an innate ability called Mad Enhancement, which raises all of the Berserker's stats and powers greatly in exchange for the loss of the Servant's sanity and a constant drain of power from the Master.

Considering that Heracles was the strongest man to walk the Earth, even in the Age of Heroes, that kind of boost is just mind-boggling.

 

[GenocideHeart]

An important addition to that list is the innate abilities of each class. Specifically, in the case of Berserker, that class has an innate ability called Mad Enhancement, which raises all of the Berserker's stats and powers greatly in exchange for the loss of the Servant's sanity and a constant drain of power from the Master.

Considering that Heracles was the strongest man to walk the Earth, even in the Age of Heroes, that kind of boost is just mind-boggling.

Even when Herc wasn't going crazy, he was still stronger than any mortal on Earth. How the FUCK does Saber have higher base strength than him? Especially since Arthur wasn't known for his strength. Percival was the strong man of the Round Table.

 

[toraneko]

The list Eternity provided is the base stats of the Class, without respect to the individual Eirei summoned. Another Berserker would definitely be much, much weaker than Heracles.

Berserker!Heracles' stats are Strength A+, Endurance A, Agility A, Mana A, Luck B. Saber's stats only outrank him in Luck (A+ as Rin's Servant, when she's being properly dosed with mana) and Mana (A++ as Sakura's Black Saber, understandable given that she basically has an unlimited mana supply). So, yeah, he pretty much owns the hell out of her stat-wise.

 

[GenocideHeart]

The list Eternity provided is the base stats of the Class, without respect to the individual Eirei summoned. Another Berserker would definitely be much, much weaker than Heracles.

Berserker!Heracles' stats are Strength A+, Endurance A, Agility A, Mana A, Luck B. Saber's stats only outrank him in Luck (A+ as Rin's Servant, when she's being properly dosed with mana) and Mana (A++ as Sakura's Black Saber, understandable given that she basically has an unlimited mana supply). So, yeah, he pretty much owns the hell out of her stat-wise.

That's more like it...

 

[Pale Wolf]

I had horrible thoughts while I was gone...

I was thinking on the idea of a 'new' Master. OC was what first popped into my mind, but then I remembered: good old Sacchin. Yep, use Satsuki from Tsukihime. Since she did get vamped and yet didn't actually get dealt with in the Arc/Ciel arcs, she's available to drift on over to Fuyuki in time for Fate. And she'd probably be the only character in existence other than Sakura with enough raw fricken magical power to fuel a Nanoha character, and since she doesn't really know how to use it, she can be kept from being an overpowered sorceress. And she actually has a perfect Assassin type lined up

Of course, Satsuki summoning Shiki present a problem - too much ownage. I mean, Shiki versus Saber = Excalibur chopped in half and some serious problems down the line as far as plot's concerned...

So, for the moment sacrificing the humour of that idea, I go farther afield, to Shiki's father. (Of course, Satsuki wouldn't have a clue of that, since as far as she knows, Shiki's father is Makihisa Tohno, not Kiri Nanaya) He'd be much better for keeping things balanced, because while he's probably more skilled than Shiki is, he also doesn't have the Mystic Eyes of Kill Anything You Can Poke.

That would end up with a strange, strange team, where the close-combat fighter stays out of direct combat (lacking both staying power and the hitting power to do much without surprise), the Master is the meat shield (vampire regen, gotta love it), and the Caster tends towards melee smackfests.

You'd have to twist how the Grail workd in summoning heroic spirits for it to summon any Nanoha girl, since they are essentially fctional beings, unless you use the excuse of how Kojiro was made - and that can have adverse consequences.

Well, this one's assuming that they're actually fictional, and not just living in another world. Crossovers don't normally assume that one is real and the other is still anime, right?

Although, actually summoning her would be a wee bit more difficult.

Mad coincidence is the ultimate plot device.

Still, I find Nanoha's magic to be completely !?!? in terms of trying to mix it in with the Nasuverse. Granted, it probably wouldn't be impossible, but considering that most of Nanoha's magic involves lots of HUGE freaking explosions, it makes me wonder... In terms of how much mana that must be consumed to actually wield that much power, Fate (or whatever other character you might use) would have to either be a true magician, or have such levels of deep mana reserves it wouldn't even be funny.

Yeah. They do have insanely overblown magical reserves even for Nanoha canon. And that could be a very effective plot point - she requires huge fsking amounts of mana to actually perform at that 'utter pwnage' level, so...

 

[GenocideHeart]

Heh. In a chat earlier today, I actually proposed that someone summon Dark Schneider as Caster. Fatuous One basically said you'd need God himself to summon Darsch, IF the Grail can even summon it, which is unlikely seeing how completely insanely batshit powerful he is.

After all, we're talking a guy who, just by casting a low level Fire spell, vaporized the eternally frozen lake Cocytus in Hell, and who wiped out the first three of the nine layers of Hell just with the shockwave from his attack impacting against his opponent's... At full tilt, Darsch can probably break the planet in a million pieces.

 

[Moshulel]

Of course, Satsuki summoning Shiki present a problem - too much ownage. I mean, Shiki versus Saber = Excalibur chopped in half and some serious problems down the line as far as plot's concerned...

Have to love those long range attacks...

Heh. In a chat earlier today, I actually proposed that someone summon Dark Schneider as Caster. Fatuous One basically said you'd need God himself to summon Darsch, IF the Grail can even summon it, which is unlikely seeing how completely insanely batshit powerful he is.

Agreed. And if i remember correctly from what you were telling me Hell ~ a galaxy or so.

 

[toraneko]

Yeah, that does present a problem I hadn't foreseen in our IM chat, GH.

I expect Darsch could be summoned, assuming this is after the Third Grail War - when Angra Mainyu's taint allowed non-Good Eirei to be summoned (thus why Rider and Caster were allowed).

The problem is, Servants don't have their own mana source. They have to either get the mana they need from their Master, or kill innocent people for their lifeforce.

DS could go either way, of course... but he'd have to do it often with the high-powered spells he casts. Meaning, of course, that unless his Master is Dark Sakura, the Master would die from excessive mana drain. If he used lifeforce, he'd run out of "batteries" pretty soon.

I never really sat down and thought about it, but F/SN is just downright unfriendly to high-power settings.

Ah, well. There goes Lina Inverse as Caster.


...Hmm. Although, that does kinda open the door for Gourry Gabriev as Saber...

...And Sylphiel as his Master! :rofl:

 

[ttestagr]

Lina could still be a good Caster. Her Noble Phantasm could be her Demon Blood talismans, which act as a magic amplifier. I agree that Gourry still rules as a Saber though.

 

[Eternity]

hmmm, thats not completely true, servents can regenerate mana, slowly through sleep, the rate is something like this.

Amount regained per day - 8
Amount needed to maintain body per day - 6

these numbers are assuming that the servents max stores are in the 900-1300 range, with the exception being Caster, thats around 3000, AND can tape into outside mana sorces *other then riping mana from people, ala Rider under the control of Shinji-baka*

this probably has alot to do with the reasons why Caster was heading towards the Temple and later stayed there, other then falling for that odd assassin type, its also how she could have a non-magus master, throw around her rather energy intensive spells, AND summon a subordonite*sp* servent aka Assassin without fadeing into nothingness.

heres some of the stats I found, though they are hardly solid, they do a fair job of working as a point of refrence.

Black Saber (A++) - approx 4500.
Rin Saber - approx 1500.
Lancer - approx 900.
Archer - approx 1200.
Rider - approx 1200.
Caster - approx 3000 (but, like Rin, also has access to external Prana/sources).
Assassin - approx 300. (LOW for a Servant)
Berserker - approx 1500.
Gilgamesh - approx 1200.
True Assassin - approx 1200.

thats the servents.

Cost of using Excalibur is estimated at 700-800.
One light bolt from Caster - 70-200.
Rain of light from Caster - 700-2000.
Tracing cost - 5.
Reinforcement cost - 2.
Shirou UBW (initial) expansion cost - No more than 270.
(Stabbing) Gae Bolg - Can be used 7 times without refueling. Which would make each use no more than around 120, although it's likely that the cost is less than this. I'm kind of curious what a full Lancer could have down if he was summoned in Ireland and had a better supply source.

basic costs for various things.

Average magus - 40 as of Tokuhon. 25 within Fate (the term used is mature magus, however, which might actually be greater than the average magus, or so goes the thinking of Tsukihime Lab). Either way, means a change in thinking as far as numbers go in Kinoko land.

And while there aren't any real numbers, Aoko (circuits probably?) happens to be freakingly incredible with how she uses her Prana. The equivalent of say running a car 1000km with a liter of gas.

Rin - 20 times the amount of Prana of the mature magus, 500. A maximum of 1000 points can be released or stored at once with her circuits.

Saber - under Shirou, has 1200 to 1300.

Sakura - under normal and ideal conditions, should have the same amount as Rin. However, that energy is constantly being eaten by her worms.
Sakura, when connected to Angra Mainyu, has access to over 1,000,000,000,000. But with the number of circuits, only 1000 can be released at any one time. Furthermore, the amount of power she has is said to be similar to the level of Counter-Guardians (when incarnated in their normal role). Each of her shadows has 1000.

Ciel - 100 times the amount of the average magus, 4000. On the other hand, she doesn't use Roa's old knowledge for spells. If readjusted to matured magus in Fate, then 2500 or a less if mature magus (1st-rate magus) > average magus (kind of strange that she would have twice to four times the amount of a part-dragon). Only sure thing is that she has much more than Rin. At least Servant-level Prana load anyway.

Rider's Pegasus - 100 times the amount of Prana of the average magus, 4000 or 2500.

Shirou (UBW) - 20-30.

some more information on various peoples mana levels, limits, whatever ^^; includes some Tsukihime stuff, though there are slight diffrences in the numbers between the two.

well, hope this helps somewhat, and makes sense ^^;

 

[toraneko]

Seen the page with those stats.

Anyway, the key thing to remember about Caster is that she got her magic power by draining the lifeforce out of everyone in Fuyuki at once, but at a very slow rate.

As I said, there's just no way Dark Schneider would be a good Servant. His favorite spells are so unbelivably powerful that Fuyuki would be gone the next day, and they're so intense in their mana requirements that his Master's reserves would run dry just trying to partially power one of his favorite spells.

Also, I don't see him too happy with being the Servant to a Master.

Lina Inverse, I suppose she could be a good Caster, now that I think of it. Assuming that Dragu Slave is only slightly above Excalibur in terms of mana cost, she still couldn't go flinging it about all day (which is a good thing, considering it's a city-destroyer) - but her favorite spell always has been, and always will be, the good ol' Fireball, and she still has a large selection of low- to medium-level spells to boot.

She's gotten so good with it that her Fireballs are much, much more powerful than normal ones. Gotta love the pyros. ^_^

 

[GenocideHeart]

As I said, there's just no way Dark Schneider would be a good Servant. His favorite spells are so unbelivably powerful that Fuyuki would be gone the next day, and they're so intense in their mana requirements that his Master's reserves would run dry just trying to partially power one of his favorite spells.

Also, I don't see him too happy with being the Servant to a Master.

Even Dark Sakura can't power Dark Schneider. DS has a basically bottomless supply of *divine power* since the Judas Paine connects him to the Gods of Light and Darkness. But even with it, he needs to take a breath every now and then, as it was shown when he nearly overstrained himself to cast a series of high level spells including Helloween, Blagozahath, Dar Kain and two Jioda Spreed spells in rapid succession.

For those who don't know, the spells in question are:

-'The Seven Keys of the Guardian God' [Helloween], a DBZ style giant magical laser. It is one of DS's trademark spells, and is essentially supercharged plasma, more accurately.

-'Nuclear Hellfire of Black Death' [Blagozahath], a matter-antimatter reaction triggered inside a powerful magical containment barrier and creating enough heat to outright vaporize even immortal beings.

-'Magnetic Vortex of Darkness' [Dar=Kain], a dark magic attack with electromagnetic properties capable of disrupting matter at a molecular level.

-'Hyper Atom Activation' [Jioda=Spreed], a spell generating a large beam of disruptive energy that literally obliterates anything in its path, and is so powerful it requires a triple-strata magical circle to contain it, lest it sink a continent the size of Africa.

And DS uses two of the last one at once, pretty much.

I just don't see ANY Master having enough Mana to fuel Dark Schneider, not even Dark Sakura. He's too ungodly powerful based off the recent issues of Bastard!!, not to mention he's essentially unkillable. He regenerated from being a fricking HEAD with a spine dangling from it - after surviving as said head for more than four hours while making sarcastic remarks. And let's not talk about how he revived HIMSELF after ripping his own heart out. And that was waaaaay back when he was still relatively weak.

 

[Moshulel]

Dark Schneider = Way beyond servant level. *God level or something.*
Heck he "plays" around with demons and angels regularly.

If FSN lore teaches us something it's the fact that the grail CAN'T summon beings that powerful.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Dark Schneider = Way beyond servant level. *God level or something.*
Heck he "plays" around with demons and angels regularly.

If FSN lore teaches us something it's the fact that the grail CAN'T summon beings that powerful.

More accurately, it can only summon weak replicas of them. And there's going to be Hell to pay. Angra Mainyu should be proof enough.

Of course, even a weak replica of Dark Schneider would probably win the Grail wars in about the same amount of time it takes for you to have breakfast, so never mind.